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Trip Report: Studying Spanish in Central Mexico

This is a brief trip report on studying Spanish at the Escuela de Idiomas at the Universidad de Guanajuato in Mexico. I thought that the quality of instruction was very good, and that Guanajuato Mexico was a very interesting city.

Guanajuato is about five hours from Mexico City and from Guadalajara. It is a town of 80,000 people with 20,000 students at the University, 10% of whom study language. Since Spain got much of their wealth from the nearby gold and silver mines, the town itself had immense wealth and has many beautiful buildings. Guanajuato is a UN Heritage City, very cheap, quite cosmopolitan.

Since the city has lots of mining expertise, when it flooded 100 years ago, they converted the river below the city into a series of tunnels. Most of the traffic is underneath the city, which is very cool. Good thing they don't have earthquakes there. The city itself is built in many layers on the hills that surround the city.

The language school teaches mainly Spanish to foreigners and mainly English to Mexicans. But they also do Russian, Italian, German, Portugeuse, French, Greek and Latin. They offer semester courses to college kids, intensive monthly Spanish courses as well as a summer course. I took a month of Spanish. You show up at the school and pay $500 or so. For the monthly program, they give you a test and put you in one of three levels. Classes are limited to four people, I had one other girl in my advanced class.

Our class was 20 hours of grammar, 12 hours of Mexican history (taught in Spanish, natch), 12 hours of Latino literature and 20 scheduled hours of Spanish conversation. But there was a language centre called CAADI where you could chat and converse with a long list of volunteers for many additional hours each day (or do workshops in grammar, etc.). I took some advantage of this and got about 25 extra free hours of Spanish conversation. I should have taken the time to do more French conversation too, but only did this a couple of times. So for lessons with one other student, you're looking at $6 or so per hour of a very structured program with very experienced professors.

In literature, we read short stories by Borges, Garcia Marquez, Juan Rulfo, Rosario Castellanos, Isabel Allende, Julio Cortázar, Octavio Paz... a highbrow selection. The library had tons of movies and telenovelas you could rent out. But pirated movies, TV shows and telenovelas are available everywhere in town, 9 or more DVD movies for 5 bucks. The possibility exists that I now own the complete set of Los Simpsons, House, Almodovar movies, The Sopranos, Sin Tetas, Cafe Con Aroma de Mujer, Escalona, etc. Some Mexican movies are very good too, such as the Tin Tan and Cantinflas films or new movies like La Ley de Herodes. The Mexicans use the verb cantinflear to mean to talk a lot but say nothing, kind of like pura tilin tilin pero nada de paletas... You learn the Mexican slang.

Mexicans are friendly and the town has a youthful vibe. But it is quite Catholic and conservative, and probably less fun than Colombia. I met a lot of nice people. The town has a good gym, nice restaurants, good clubs and pubs and cafés. It has some excellent museums -- one very impressive one devoted only to Don Quixote.

Guanajuato is famous for its mummy museum, something in the soil preserves bodies buried there. They dig you up if your relatives don't pay to keep you buried. The mummy museum is freaky.

If you get tired of Guanajuato, and it has a lot to do, you can go to nearby Leon and buy cheap shoes or leather goods. Hush Puppies and Florsheim are made there, you could buy a pair of leather shoes from $10 (or some very cool cowboy boots for $50). Guanajuato has a few nice markets and I brought back a guitar and some gorgeous arts and crafts. Zacatecas has a disco in a mine, you take the little train to get there. A lot of cool day trips from Guanajuato, five hours from Mexico City or Guadalajara. There is a ten hour overnight bus right to Puerto Vallarta, where I spent four days, but busses in Mexico are cheap and comfortable with fully reclining seats on the first class ones.

The university will find you room and board for $17-20 a night. The family at my place had a great cook who would make whatever I wanted. (French toast for breakfast? Why sure!). I lost ten pounds climbing all the hills and eating healthy Mexican food.

But best of all, my Spanish improved a lot. I think Guanajuato would be an excellent choice for someone looking to improve a language -- no headaches, little bureaucracy, cheap, interesting place, quality instruction, very experienced staff and well organized courses.

By Man Tequila on Mar 8, 2008, 16:48 in Off Topic.

Man Tequila says on Mar 8, 2008, 16:58:

The town has some pretty traditions. Everyone gathers on the two downtown streets 7-9pm to hang out and talk. Several professional singers dress in medieval costumes and sing old favourites like Colores. The crowd is encouraged to sing along and follow the estudantinas through the narrow medieval callejones while drinking wine.

The university holds many film festivals, and the town is famous for its Cervantino festival in October. Don Quioxte is everywhere in the town, but the Iconographic Museum showing thousands of paintings inspired by Quixote is stunningly beautiful (and I did not expect to like a museum with such a narrow focus). The town does not see that many tourists (though more than most of Colombia) and is not expensive and Americanized, like nearby San Miguel de Allende. Houses are cheap, I came close to buying and still should.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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manINred says on Mar 8, 2008, 18:03:

That's really interesting. Are there many foreigners/tourists living in the city?

That first picture giving the view above the city is fantastic! Thanks for sharing.

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Man Tequila says on Mar 8, 2008, 18:17:

Guanajuato merits a dozen pages in the Lonely Planet guide, but usually only gets tourists on Friday and Saturday, though the local taxi industry is thriving and bus service is excellent (it would be crazy difficult to drive around town, and impossible to avoid dinging the paint). They hold a big international rally car race in the mountains around town, so there were a lot of tourists the last weekend in February. The town is also filled to the rafters for the Cervantino festival in October and Semana Santa. Bajio airport is 30 minutes away.

Most of the students are Mexican. There were several other exhange students, mainly from the US and Japan. There is a small number of ex-pats, I'd say under 1000, most of whom are there part time. Quite a few of them taught at the school or volunteered to teach free conversation classes in English or other language. There is no "ex-pat" community, nor much new building in Guanajuato itself, the nearby town of Silao has quintupled in size in five years due to a new GM plant there.

The town is on land shaped by a fishbowl. The first picture is nice but, taken from the highest point, does not do justice just how vertical the town is viewed from downtown. Most of the houses are on narrow alleyways, walking is easy, driving is crazy hard and most of the main routes are under the actual town anyway. When doing construction, all the bricks and everything else is carried by hand or burro to the site. I had to climb a great many narrow stone staircases and streets to get back to the house where I was staying, several times a day. I got in good shape very quickly.

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Man Tequila says on Mar 8, 2008, 18:22:

The view from the language school. You can see the ramparts of the University (build by the Jesuits in the 1600s) and to the left of the dome, a statue of El Pípila who helped beat the criollos beat the Spanish at Alhóndiga.

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 8, 2008, 18:24:

Muy buen reporte Man Tequila. A proposito, vos si que la pasas bien !!! Me alegro que las cosas te esten yendo bien. Muy linda la foto que muestra la ciudad con las casitas pintadas de diferentes colores. Ademas parece ser el lugar indicado para estudiar la lengua de Cervantes, maxime teniendo en cuenta que hay Quijotes de la Mancha por todos lados...jaja.

Cantinflas era un gran comico creo que de los años 50 y 60. He visto varias de sus peliculas por television, y eran muy divertidas, incluyendo Vuelta al Mundo en 80 días (basada en el libro de Julio Verne). Y justamente, lo característico de Cantinflas era que hablaba, hablaba y hablaba...y no decía nada !!!!!!!!! Aca diríamos pura sanata...puro chamullo.

Te ves bien rodeado de "chavas padrisimas"...jaja. Muy "chido" "quate". El slang mexicano es muy particular, y si yo no hubiera visto El Chavo del 8 (un programa de television) me costaria mucho entender lo que dicen.

Bueno, espero que sigas perfeccionando el castellano y que sigas difrutando tu estancia allí. Y ojo con las enchiladas, tacos, burritos, guacamole y los tequilas...:)

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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Man Tequila says on Mar 8, 2008, 18:49:

Gracias. Es bonito que haya mejorado mi español, y Guanajuato fue un lugar agradable para hacerlo. También, estoy feliz que tuviera la oportunidad de estudiar buenos autores como Borges, Cortázar y Echeverría. Creo que Cortázar escribió un libro llamado La Vuelta Al Dia En Ochenta Mundos. Las pelís de Cantinflas son divertidas (más que el Chapulin Colorado). Espero que todo vaya bien, Lucas, siempre es un placer platicar contigo.

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de pronto says on Mar 8, 2008, 19:48:

Tratando de enterarme de lo que se decía en PBH sobre la crisis política, me encontré con este post, muchas gracias Man Tequila por mostrar una pequeña parte de mi país. Guanajuato es en realidad una ciudad muy hermosa y aunque hace tiempo no la visito espero hacerlo pronto. Me alegra que tu español haya mejorado y sí las películas de Cantinflas son graciosas aunque seguramente habrás escuchado hablar de Tin Tan, él me hace reir más =)

Saludos y pásatela muy bien en Guanajuato.

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

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miamimike says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:13:

Thats a beautiful Area you mention and a great place to study Spanish. I took my first intensive course in Guadalajara in 1989 and enjoyed the area immensely. 70,000 Americans and Canadians do also as evidenced by their large numbers. And more keep moving there daily. IMO, Guadalajara has some of the best climate in Mexico, even worldwide. Its also know as la Ciudade de primivera eterna. The Below link will not become Hot, C&P it into your browser.

Univ Autonoma de Guadalajara---------http://www.uag.mx/medicine/medical_spanish.htm

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Man Tequila says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:27:

Gracias, de pronto, pero estoy triste que nunca visitara la capital... demasiado trabajo y tiempo para viajar... Encontraremos otra vez. Tienes razon, Tin Tan es muy chistoso. Ahorita estoy en Canadá y la temperatura está diez bajo cero. Claro que echo de menos el bueno clima de México...

I spent four days in Guadalajara and liked it a lot. Who knew they were so many mariachi bands? It was very hot when I went there. If I ever buy a castle, I'm going to Tlaquepaque to furnish it. My Dad was thinking of retiring there, Guadalajara has quite the ex-pat community. I stayed at the Hotel Morales, which was incredible value and very nice indeed.

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gringoloid says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:29:

mant..........i first thought el pipila was Prometheus..............but nevertheless, as a result of the silver mines, guanajuato is rich in freemasonry. the most famous mason of that city, the artist Diego Rivera, made for some good reading tonight.

Who are the three blind men?

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Man Tequila says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:37:

Diego Rivera is an interesting guy, much hated by conservative Guanajuatense for many years. His house is a neat museum.

Guanajuato is very rich in freemasonry. I think the contribution of Masons is sometimes overstated. But Masonry plays a pretty important role in Mexican history, check out the Cristero wars and this guy -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarco_Elías_Calles

El Pípila carries a torch but did not recieve fire from Zeus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Pípila

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miamimike says on Mar 8, 2008, 21:04:

MT-I bought several Ceramic Handcrafts in Tlaquepaque, its quite a place. My Ex is from Guadalajara, met her when I went there to study Spanish. I lost my affection for Her but certainly not for Guadalajara. LOL Its a great place! And they(mexican goverment) make it easy to live and retire there. The process is fairly transparent. Imagine, with a Rentista Visa you can join their National Healthcare Insurance program for around $30/monthly. It doesn't get any better then that! On the Mariachis, The Plaza of Los Mariachis in el centro in Guadalajara is a great place to go around 6 pm every day. Many groups go there around that time to get hired for nightly Fiestas/Gigs so you may hear 10 Bands warming up at the same time. Quite a Sight. And quite a Sound to say the least. We hired a Mariachi Band to play in the Church at our wedding and later at the Reception. It was one of the Better memories of my Marriage! LOL Lastly, its a Misnomer for someone to say(as they do here sometimes) that the Mexicanas are Butt dog ugly. Sit in the downtown plaza at Noon or later in the tarde when the Secretaries are getting out of work, you will wonder how there can be so many Drop dead Gorgeous Women living in One Town! No BS!

Spanish courses at UAG: http://www.ccisabroad.org/guadalajarasemester.html

Mexicanas Bonitas: http://www.missosology.org/missuniverse06/focus2missmexico06.html

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Mar 8, 2008, 21:04:

G'loid, are you a Masonic Member?

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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de pronto says on Mar 8, 2008, 21:37:

Miamike your comment on "mexican beauty" made me remember that so many people think that Salma Hayek is a pretty mexican however there were prettier artists than Salma Hayek: Maria Felix and Dolores del Rio. They really were beautiful mexican women. =)

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 8, 2008, 22:02:

de pronto ,
On a scale of 1 to 10

Dolores del Rio = 6 ( on a good hair day)

Maria Felix = 7 ( Maybe a 8 if she would have in younger years got a nose job )

Salma Hayek = 10 ( only because there are no 11's )

You can not compare mildly pretty Mexican artist to the international reina Salma.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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de pronto says on Mar 8, 2008, 22:10:

ok Dodger I respect your opinion, at the end of the day is your own opinion and I have stated mine. But I should say that Dolores del Rio was at least a true actress =)

It's time to go to bed... good night

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 8, 2008, 22:43:

de pronto, Mexico has a lot of fine and pretty actresses. I am just biased for Salma .

Buenos noches y feliz suenos

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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CatGirl says on Mar 8, 2008, 23:12:

MT - Excellent pictures! Thanks. Nice post

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 03:16:

sounds like a great place man t. I really like the sound of the narrow, steep streets. Looks like a great place to explore, plus I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:20:

There are a lot of pretty mexicanas. I found they tended to converge at the gyms, doing yoga, pilates, zumba and cardio striptease.

Mexicans sometimes have unkind things to say about Colombia. Sometimes it is easier to round up the usual suspects than deal with local corruption.

Guanajuato is well worth a visit. As a bonus, my flight to Bajio (Leon-Guanajuato airport) was cheap. Folks are very friendly, though if you wear a muscle shirt on the way to the gym they will return your "Buenas tardes" with "sí" rather than the usual "Buenas tardes". Ooooooooooooh! In your face! No one disses like the Mexicans. ;)

Now I have 30cm of snow to clean out of my driveway, else I'm housebound. All things considered, this sucks.

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:41:

Man Tequila, te felicito, ya que tu español es perfecto. Me alegra saber que te interesa la literatura "hispana", ya que como decis hay muy buenos escritores. Particularmente Echeverria y Borges, tienen cosas brillantes. Te devuelvo la gentileza, hablar con vos siempre es un placer.

Otras dos mexicanas muy lindas son Paulina Rubio y Thalia. Guste o no como cantan o su estilo musical, no se puede negar que ambas son bellas.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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de pronto says on Mar 9, 2008, 11:00:

Man Tequila said "Mexicans sometimes have unkind things to say about Colombia. Sometimes it is easier to round up the usual suspects than deal with local corruption." I hate to say this but it is true =( however those are mexicans who only believe what it is said on the TV or on the radio. They believe "almost" what it is said about Colombia, I've been so blessed that I do have my own opinion. =)

Lucas, debo decir que al principio Borges me parecía bastante pedante y no me gustaba, hasta que dejé mis prejuicios sobre este escritor a un lado y vaya que el señor era un maestro. Si uno se toma el tiempo de leer las referencias literarias que hace Borges en sus cuentos se abrirá para el lector una inmensa puerta para disfrutar la lectura. Ahora, Lucas, sólo tengo una cosa que decir de Borges: es magistral, y aún cuando tengo entendido, vivió su infancia en Europa, me alegra que el idioma original de sus obras sea el español =)

Man Tequila me atrevo a recomendarte dos cuentos de Borges que me fascinan: "El otro" y "Pierre Menard; el autor del Quijote" Disfruta la lectura =)

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

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gringoloid says on Mar 9, 2008, 11:35:

mike..........no, i'm not a mason but mant knows what i'm all about after we travelled to buenos aires. freemasons or the illuminati infiltrated the masonic structure in the 1700's and took over the leadership. regular masons know little about this.

they are the 'shadow govt' that controls the wars over the worlds natural resources. they were in mexico stealing the silver, they're in iraq right now stealing the oil.................................the british royal family is buying up huge amounts of the state of colorado, for reasons i haven't figured out yet....etc...

http://freemasonrywatch.org/

Who are the three blind men?

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msaucey says on Mar 9, 2008, 12:39:

WOW... MT, I'm glad that you took the time to share your experience and even though you were kind enough to check in on occassion, you did primarily focus and improved your Spanish... Great post and pics....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 13:04:

Claro que me gustan los escritores argentinos. Aún mi favorito es García Marquez. Tiene un cuentito que se llama "El ahogado más hermoso del mundo" que es fantástico, ?quizá yo ponga el cuentito y un análisis/una traducción aquí?

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 14:20:

oh no man t goes to mexico and comes back praising a commie? where's scotty when we need him?

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 14:23:

You'll have to wait 'til Fox does a special. I did notice that in Mexico, many of the sauces were red coloured.

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 14:26:

how was the food BTW? I'm a big fan of mexican food. Spicy, chocolate, what more could you want?

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 14:45:

Careful Pods, those moles might be commies.

The food was pretty good. Great chicken, good shrimp and seafood (even in inland villages, the small pueblito of Dolores HiIdalgo has an awesome seafood place as well as interesting ice cream -- see picture), lots of tasty Mexican dishes. I was there during strawberry season in nearby Irapuato, which had its merits. A good steak can be hard to find though. Chicharron, cheese and tequila ice cream is easy to find. You can get mole ice cream too.

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 14:59:

ahh that looks pretty good. I'd trade a good steak for some good tacos right about now.

last night I went to Sucre, the well known high end restaurant here (not sure if you were there before?). I am used to disappointment here, but it was a very pleasant surprise. The food was great, best salmon/swordfish/grilled chicken (we shared) I have had in 2 years.

not cheap, but relative to NA a bargain of course.

Also went last week to an italian restaurant that came highly recommended, it was awful...the place looked great but it was truly horrible food.

But things should get better for me the next few weeks (months?). We are testing the menu this week (last week's experiments with frozen bread and desserts did not go well, although Angel the painter ate all the plates of crappy, chewy, facturas proclaiming loudly that the chef was 'un genio!')

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 15:05:

I've been to Sucre. It's only pricy for BzAz.

How's the hotel going? (Don't tell me about the elevator and the inspection office if it's just going to make the vein on your forehead throb.) Jaja, gotta love that Angel. The workers politely ate my beautiful chicken curry (but were clearly unimpressed -- the mild stuff terribleMENte picante -- I've had guys from Pakistan and Indonesia tell me it's the best they've had)... but raved about my garlic bread.

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 15:58:

jaja listen before I go on about the hotel, I have to tell you about Mauro (the albanil who was with me from day 1, a year and a half).

First story: he brought his 10 yr old daughter (Vale) to work one Saturday, she was visiting from Chaco, came down on the bus by herself. She was really cute, and she helped Silvina clean, although the 2 of them goofed off more than anything.

Anyway, I pay them on saturday and Vale was watching intently and so I gave her her saldo of 4 pesos and had her sign a receipt like the others, which she did with a giggle.

The next week Mauro tells me Vale wants to come to work, and I say because she wants her saldo and he laughs and tells me with her 4 pesos she bought 1 big tub of ice cream at the first train station on the way home (2 pesos), and another tub at the half way mark. We let her come to work a couple of more times on saturday before she got packed off on the bus to Chaco. She ate a lot of ice cream.

Second story: Mauro's last day finally came, so I bought him a new toolbox full of high quality chisels, hammers, etc. I thought it might not be the best gift, but since he spends all day chiseling it has to make his life easier to have proper stone masons' chisels as opposed to the sharpened rebar they usually use.

However, his chiseling days might be over...Angel got him an interview with some rich guy who wanted a driver/handyman, and even though Mauro doesn't know how to drive, he somehow got the job. I guess he'll learn.

He started last Monday and apparently this guy lives in a huge mansion, has 19 cars and one of the kids has her own private plane. So Mauro's landed on his feet and is living in a mansion again.

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 16:08:

the hotel is just about ready...2 more weeks. Angel finishes Tuesday, and on Wednesday we start setting up tables and chairs.

the elevator is done, works fine except the door will kill you if you aren't quick. No such thing as a safety bar to stop it from closing. Just needs some wood and mirrors inside. The elevator company calls me every day for payment and I tell them I'll pay them when I feel like it : ) Funny that now they want payment they seem to have lots of time to talk to me...

The wine cellar won't be furnished, and I won't have a jacuzzi, but everything else should be in place.

We are going to do some trial runs in the restaurant the week after next with friends/family only, so if you have time to come down we could use a good food critic : )

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 16:09:

Mauro was buena gente, I'm glad to hear it.

If he smashes up El Grandote's Lotus he might need the tools.

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podborski says on Mar 9, 2008, 16:13:

jaja Mauro is a bit of a klutz...you would have laughed at me holding my head watching in horror as he cleaned out some big metal poles from the planter in the back patio.

He knocked one pole over and it just missed breaking off the new light fixture, he turns to see what all the noise was and knocks another one in the other direction which also misses the light on that side by an inch...

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houstongal says on Mar 9, 2008, 21:19:

Wow MT....great write up! I just got back from a weekend in Veracruz. We took the bus for the 3.5 hour trip and you're right...the first class bus is awesome and cheap ($50 round trip) with movies and a beverage. We got some sun today, which is what we wanted. And shopped yesterday since it was rainy. Just what two girls needed.

Pod, I'm so happy to hear things are progressing on the hotel. Sorry to hear Mauro is no longer working for you. I know you'll miss him. And Angel will surely be missed.

So no luck on the facturas? I got my colleague hooked on licuados in Veracruz. There was a great gordita restaurant at the shopping mall that had them. We had to go twice to get our fix.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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Man Tequila says on Mar 9, 2008, 21:31:

One thing I like about Mexican licuados is that, at the good places that make them fresh, they'll add pecans (nuez) if you ask nice. It doesn't get better than that.

It's definitely worth the extra money to travel ETN.

Veracruz is nice, went there years ago. Back when Playa del Carmen was one dusty street.

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miamimike says on Mar 9, 2008, 23:29:

G'Loid--On the Masons, just curious because of your Avatar, Masonic eye, like on our Dollar Bill. My Dad, who is now deceased, was a 32nd Degree Freemason. In fact, he attained 33rd degree but that's Honorary of course. At the time of his Death, he was the oldest active member of his Bluelodge, having completed 69 years of active memebrship. Quite a run by any standard,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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gringoloid says on Mar 10, 2008, 06:46:

mike, yea, my father was too; but these aren't the masons i'm talking about. i think scotty around here is a mason too. almost all masons are 'super americans', that do tremendous service work in their area.

what i refer to here is the illuminati, the shadow govt, .......these are the guys that run things in the world.

there are all kinds of masonic symbols everywhere, on money, the layout of washington d.c............etc., JFK was murdered near the 33rd parallel and a few feet away from the first masonic located in dealey plaza................along with the first atomic bomb blast in New Mexico.............FDR was murdered near the 33rd parallel.........the original scottish rite in south carlolina is also along that parallel nearby........etc.,

i kid around with man t because i know he doesn't believe any of this stuff and everytime he plots a location in the world..........i look for the masonic connection.

and he found a good one for me in guanajuata.

Who are the three blind men?

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CatGirl says on Mar 10, 2008, 12:45:

Loid...Do you mean Freemasons vs Masons? ;)))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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gringoloid says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:33:

CG...yes, your point is well taken. i don't want to disparage your everday mason.......that would be totally wrong. they do a lot of good work, and most wouldn't know what albert Pikes, 'Morals and Dogma' was, let alone understand the philosophy contained within.

i'm speaking more of the illuminati that infiltrated the masons. i think what best describes our form of govt is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synarchism

i also enjoy teasing man t, ..byasking him if he saw any obelisks there.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:39:

maybe man t does believe these things. all those spanish lessons are going to put him into the forefront of the North American Union when Canada becomes 'free entry' to mexicans and americans.

Who are the three blind men?

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 10, 2008, 15:00:

De pronto, muchas gracias por el comentario. Yo no se si sabias que Borges fue perdiendo la vista en su juventud, hasta quedar totalmente ciego. Muchos de su cuentos fueron escritos desde su ceguera. Yo creo que por eso tanta lucidez en sus obras. A mi me gusta muchisimo El Laberinto. Lo que decis acerca de que parecia pedante, es verdad. Pero yo creo que tal vez era como un escudo que usaba, ya que siendo ciego, probablemente era como una especie de autodefensa. Sin embargo hoy si veo algun reportaje antiguo, la sabiduría que tenía ese hombre es...magistral (como dijiste). Es gracioso, porque cuando estaba en el Colegio me parecía un tipo aburrido y si, medio pedante. El vivió muchos años en Ginebra, pero nunca dejó de ser un porteño de ley. Vivía en pleno centro de Buenos Aires, y esos cuentos de cuchilleros de principios de siglo 20 son fiel reflejo de aquel Buenos Aires tanguero, arrabal, melancolico y nostalgioso.

En serio me agrada saber que disfrutas sus cuentos ;)

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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Man Tequila says on Mar 10, 2008, 16:53:

Hmmm. Not only did I enjoy reading about synarchism, I also had the satisfaction of knowing GL had read every single link in the article. Take that, uh... Gumersindo Magaña Negrete.

A la minima, los Illiminati van a secuestrar este hilo. Al tomar del poder, estaremos preparados. Shhhhhhhhhhh!

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gringoloid says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:48:

you see man t...............you've got it all figured out!

you're going to make all the money from this new world order deal..........and i'm not going to make anything.

just think, 75 mexican patients a day, 5 days a week..............what a payoff on those spanish lessons!

Who are the three blind men?

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miamimike says on Mar 10, 2008, 21:53:

G'Loid, its true, a Majority of the Movers&Shakers in the World are Freemasons. When I was in Key West on a Visit last August, I gave my friends a Tour of Truman's Little Whitehouse(he used it most winters and conducted the nation's business from there) They were surprised to find out he was a Freemason of the highest order. They had many Pictures of him at various stages of his Masonic Life. Very Impressive for those with an interest in Freemasonry.

Truman: http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/presidents/truman.html

Masonic World Leaders: http://www.southernbrotherhood.org/famous.htm

http://www.cephas-library.com/famous.html

Many probably aren't aware of the fact that the Great South American Liberator Simon Bolivar was a Freemason but he was, as Jesse jackson and Yassar Arafat,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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