Oh Bible Belt Conservatives keep making Everyone Proud...

miamimike says on Jul 28, 2008, 11:31:

Romy, I just saw this on the Herald Website, Horrible what happened!

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

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romy says on Jul 28, 2008, 13:34:

Such hateful people... greed and disgust can only lead to death of others and self. good vs. evil battles... but who gets to play GOD?

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jorgegdiaz (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 28, 2008, 14:40:

MaFe says on Jul 28, 2008, 14:53:

Religion has been the cause of many great wars...

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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bamacellist says on Jul 28, 2008, 22:40:

The breadth of the non sequitur(s) postulated here indicates noone (other than miamimike) intends their comments to be taken seriously, but I'm not finding the punchline to the joke you all are making. Is there one?

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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travelingirl says on Jul 28, 2008, 22:58:

"Oh Bible Belt Conservatives keep making Everyone Proud..."

Oh yes, us bible belt conservatives are all exactly like this disturbed man... just waiting to shoot up a church.

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romy says on Jul 28, 2008, 23:23:

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bamacellist says on Jul 28, 2008, 23:46:

I agree that Bill Maher's intellectual prowess is a laughable thing, but what does that have to with your post, subsequent comment, and their lack of sustaining logic? Please elucidate. As it stands you leave us only to conclude that you yourself are an unthinking bigot and that this is an outstanding display of hypocritical contempt.

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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romy says on Jul 29, 2008, 07:35:

I actually agree with your smirk at Bill Maher, however find it interesting how he can still make this bunch look ridiculous, no?

There was never an intent at logic but perhaps was a general attack at people who have made it part of their argument to decide what is right and what is wrong. You see I don't believe in absolutes for starters and then good and evil cannot possibly be determined by man because we are so subjected by perspective, perhaps God? I think this is all quite clear in my comment, but again I'm reminded that not many think like me...

bama, you yourself don't make an argument at the issue, but rather try to instigate me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there is something you'd like to discuss...

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billyb says on Jul 29, 2008, 08:34:

I wonder how come Desi hasn't locked this hate filled thread against christians ;))

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 29, 2008, 09:15:

Hmm I don't think I'm a hater, but I am a bit religionist. I cannot make friends with deeply religious people, most lack drive and ambition. I am too jewish to deal with that crap :P

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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bamacellist says on Jul 29, 2008, 09:58:

Being a Christian is not a prerequisite to being a southern conservative. Many are both, of course, but many more are simply one or the other.

My objection to your post and comment, Romy, is that you have taken the tragedy of one man's acting out his mental illness and used it as a slur against millions of people who would not object to being called Bible Belt conservatives, or Christian, but would never condone nor mimic this. You have greatly distorted the information in the reportage to do so.

I would think that someone who hails from a nation of murderous drug dealers and silicone bloated, gold-digging whores and who currently resides in a country where everyone is proudly toothless, sports a Mohawk, eats blubber, lives in an igloo and drives a sled to work would be a little shy about engaging in this sport.

The comments by jorgediaz and MaFe seem not especially related to the context of the event since the man's motivation was pretty clearly generalized anger rather than religious fanaticism. I excluded miamimike from comment because his expression seemed completely sincere, and was a simple and appropriate utterance of shock and dismay at this horrific tragedy, and nothing more.

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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romy says on Jul 29, 2008, 10:14:

you know what... I apologize to you Bama as you are probably one of these people that you mention and I did overgeneralize in the headline. The headline is meant to cause a reaction and intrigue to read the article.
I don't believe I manipulated any information though. Please specify where I did this.

Of course I agree with you as I myself am Christian (catholic) but would never group myself anywhere close to the fanatics that I criticize. Fanatics of any sort are bad news in my books. My sin is that I'm a fanatic of a soccer team that is well known for it's owners being major drug dealers and when I pay for my game ticket I know I'm further lining the pockets of people that have greatly deteriorated my country.
Obviously the man's actions were triggered by anger, however I'll disagree in your thinking that his fanaticism was uninvolved. Because why was the anger directed at this particular church? It disgusts me to read this stuff and know too much about it but I'm seeing headlines of how Gay hate, liberal hate, etc. are thought to be involved.

ps. I'm currently sporting a Eurohawk ;)

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bamacellist says on Jul 29, 2008, 12:48:

I am sitting here trying to decide what a Eurohawk might be and whether or not to request a picture and suddenly I realize to my chagrin I can't keep my prejudices er... stereotypes straight. Of course I meant a mullet, aka hockey hair. Oh well, I can only hope I haven't caused anyone with a Mohawk to lose a safety pin by associating them so unfairly with half-assed wusses who need "business in the front".

From the comment released to the press, it is not unreasonable to say this man was acting out his own personal vengeance against people who represented in his sick mind the causes of his personal problems, but it is hard to justify a conclusion - based on this information - that he was convinced he was performing some act of judgement at God's request or on His behalf, or that religious beliefs played a large role in forming his personal judgement. Time and more information may yet show this to be the case, but if it does, his actions will find very very few supporters amongst Christians of all levels of devotion and of any denomination. Most Christians I know seem quite happy to let God do His own judging, to respond to your rhetorical question.

My own experience living in the south as a displaced (misplaced?) Yankee is that the bigotry that exists here is a result of the same fears, borne of the same kind of ignorance and insecurities, as the bigotry found anywhere else. It is also true here, as it is anyplace else, that this bigotry is often expressed in political terms so as to allow political "solutions". And, as in many other places, people often seek to hide their shame behind the false shield of a nobler cause; all too often religion, and this by people who may or may not have some sincere religious convictions. For better AND for worse, people are pretty much the same everywhere you find them.

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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romy says on Jul 29, 2008, 13:17:

'Fighting For The Survival of the Faux-Hawk'
See http://www.mmimarketing.com/blog/fighting-for-the-survival-of-the-faux...


btw, I've sported it on and off since 2002 and I am older than 22...

the Mohawk Indians were in some regions that are now Canada...



Maybe not this specific case, but a lot of these are the result of people taking God's work into their own hands. Kind of like combating 'the axis of evil' abroad... Actions that are supported (at least by the polls that I have access to) by Southern Christians.

Of course the Southerners suffered a lot and some of these attitudes are the direct result of the trauma. 'Religion is the opium of the people' has very deep meanings... The success of Christianity in countries such as Dominican Republic is due to the poverty and opression that the people suffer. I experienced it myself and couldn't judge them because I have never lived such desperation...

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MaFe says on Jul 29, 2008, 16:05:

Romy I thought you were only 20...2 months older than CK?

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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romy says on Jul 29, 2008, 16:47:

I wasn't saying this was particularly a case of greed... but greed is a motivation of many to be conservatives...

A replacement priest once preached against homosexuals at my church... he didn't come back.

he's a conservative because of his views on liberal ideals... I'm a liberal

MaFe- CK is 2 months older than me... a bit more than 22

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bamacellist says on Jul 29, 2008, 17:11:

MaFe, did you just reveal the age of another woman on the internet???

Doc, I took issue with how far Romy went with his generalization, but I think the information the news published about this fellow would support saying he holds social beliefs that are generally considered conservative.

I hope I haven't offended any of the Mohawk India... Native Americans with my reference to safety pins. It's not possible to be truly and always fair or sensitive and inoffensive to everyone. That's my excuse, anyway.

Peace :)

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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romy says on Jul 30, 2008, 08:12:

Labels are imprecise. Being called a liberal has so many meanings and connotations that they cannot possibly all describe a person... And people are entitled to have both liberal and conservative views.
So for some it's not clear if they are liberals or conservatives...
For instance you I am guessing consider yourself a conservative... but I'm sure you believe in some liberal ideology such as individual rights, laissez-faire, free market, democracy... and probably much more...

As for your friend, you'd have to be more specific as to his beliefs and actions if you want me to label him... would you say he's a hypocrite?

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Lcacique says on Jul 30, 2008, 14:08:

First, most Americans have no idea what their individual party stands for in the first place. Second, the conservative party of today, for example, is nothing like what it was a few decades ago.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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aztec says on Jul 30, 2008, 14:28:

Lcacique says on Jul 30 (today): flag

"First, most Americans have no idea what their individual party stands for in the first place. Second, the conservative party of today, for example, is nothing like what it was a few decades ago."

Neither is the Democratic party! There was a time when every person voting in the South voted for the democratic party. The democratic party no longer espouses the same values of those great American democrats like Nunn, Jackson or Truman or even Kennedy!

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Lcacique says on Jul 30, 2008, 15:52:

Yes, aztec...that is why I said "for example," meaning that it was one example. I assumed that readers would be able to figure out that there were other examples. Again, you are correct: the democrats were a party full of racists (not all of them were racists, but MANY were) and they used to control the pro-slavery South. Therefore, the democratic party of today, for example, is nothing like the party of old given that its candidate is an African American.

I am not sure that you should have included Kennedy in that list of democrats whose values are not mirrored in the current candidates. Ted Sorenson, Kennedy's excellent speech writer and adviser, has praised Obama and has been involved with his campaign because of the similarities between the two individuals.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 02:20:

My Goodness anybody read up on this???

U.S. church group plans to picket bus victim's funeral

Ms. Phelps-Roper said Mr. McLean's killing was proof that Canada is a nation of rebels who refuse to obey God, and who will be punished for allowing abortion, homosexuality and adultery.

more http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080808.BUS08/TPStor...

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billyb says on Aug 9, 2008, 00:11:

romy, you and I finally agree on something. Religious fanatics of any stripe are some of the biggest dangers in the world.

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romy says on Aug 13, 2008, 21:41:

I'd be willing to bet the conservative loonatic responsible for the murder of Bill Gwateney was of the same breed.

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dwmte7 says on Aug 14, 2008, 06:29:

i believe in true givens. not hypothesis....GOD made men and women. you can count on that. extrapolations as to conservative/liberal/gay/straight/republican/democrat and on and on and on....what exactly do these mean? and, how do ya'll establish these classifications?

i simply look at what's out there, i see men and woman and am swayed only by their actions that i can clearly see. i don't try to divine by some great power, what drives them, what their particular posture is, etc. if they kill, they become killers. it's a lot more simple. and for my aging brain, much less complicated and a hell of a lot less contentions.

dwmte

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romy says on Aug 14, 2008, 08:46:

the problem is that the religious fanatic believes he/she is acting in the name of God, which is what makes him/her dangerous.
I have my faith, but I never get the feeling God wants me to cleanse the Earth of the evil doers... and I do consider that when I pray/meditate I speak with God (which might seem looney).
I can't stand stereotypes and biases, and I feel like I'm contributing to one here so I'll stop adding fuel to the fire. The generalization I've made is not fair to many, and my hypothesis had a judgemental tone to it that I detest. (so you know, I just slapped my wrist)

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dwmte7 says on Aug 16, 2008, 07:31:

you're right romy....with GOD on your side, how can you go wrong. it's the same all over the world. the most attrocious crimes are always committed in HIS name.

dwmte

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