John McCain: Old White Dirty Bastard, For PRESIDENT!

Medellin Traveler says on May 31, 2008, 17:40:

The biggest threat to mankind is religion!

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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tomegun says on May 31, 2008, 18:47:

I hate to say it as a Republican, but Obama is the right choice this time. I don't see any diffrence between McCain and his good buddy George W. This country is free falling fast!

The ends justify the means, but there's only one end that really matters, ending up on a beach with a bottle of Champagne!

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aztec says on May 31, 2008, 19:09:

Great! Now I can add some of mine. Hope you can handle it without losing your cool. If your video can stay then maybe some of the more moderate ones will also!

Was just waiting because I didn't want to start this!

I am actually going to enjoy this!

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aztec says on May 31, 2008, 19:13:

Obama Vows to Disarm America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

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Medellin Traveler says on May 31, 2008, 19:30:

aztec,

Start your own thread........

This is the " John McCain: Old White Dirty Bastard, For PRESIDENT! " thread, by "friends of John McCain."

Puh-leaze, DO NOT hijack my thread with all your Obama propaganda!

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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slguy says on May 31, 2008, 20:59:

"Puh-leaze, DO NOT hijack my thread"

jajajajajajajajajajjajajajajjajaja

you're making a joke, right?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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miamimike says on May 31, 2008, 21:51:

McCain is going to run into a real problem from his own Party on the far right where all the Anti-Immigration Zealots, the Far Religous Wackos, Anti-Deficiters and the Anti-Stem Cell Research Loonies hang out. McCain is far from a Conservative and I doubt the True Republican Wing of the Republican Party will ever support him.& are still seething over him Consponsering Amnesty Legislation for the 12 Million Illegals along with Bush/Kennedy in 2007. Now he has capitulated on the Immigration Amnesty plank of the Bill saying he was "against it before he was for it!" Sounds like John Kerry in 2004 on Iraq.LOL The Conservatives really have to keep an eye on McCain as he isn't the "Straight Talker" he portrays himself to be! He is like the rest of them and will say ANYTHING to get elected. Conservatives are truly against Big Deficits yet in the last 7+ years, when did McCain ever speak out against Bush who allowed Spending to simply get out of hand and Bury us in the financial Hole we find ourselves in. Nary a word from McCain as we sank into debt, McCain a conservative in the Mold of Bill Buckley, George Will ?? I don't think so,,,True Conservatives would never have led us into an Aimless unprovoked War and runaway deficit spending. No way Jose!

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Medellin Traveler says on Jun 1, 2008, 07:37:

slguy says, ""Puh-leaze, DO NOT hijack my thread"

jajajajajajajajajajjajajajajjajaja

you're making a joke, right?"

Yes, I didn't want to see Aztec have any F U N :O)

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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Medellin Traveler says on Jun 1, 2008, 08:02:

Crazy is, as crazy does.. crazy lady speaks for White American Democracts for John McCain

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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aztec says on Jun 1, 2008, 08:50:

The crazy lady is a Clinton supporter. We will however welcome her vote!!

Did you watch the Democratic Party's Rules and Bylaws Committee meet at the Marriott in Woodley Park yesterday? What a train wreck! Clinton currently has over 500,000 more popular votes than Bambie.

The party if KKK and Jim Crow still keeping voters from the ballot box. Remember the howl from Demorats in the last election about popular votes?

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dwmte7 says on Jun 1, 2008, 10:20:

i never saw much difference beween the religious right and the KKK..............they both love lynchings and cross burnings....not to mention an all white barbeque on sundays.

dwmte

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miamimike says on Jun 1, 2008, 10:58:

DWMTE_they are also against Science and Stem Cell Research for MD, Alzheimers, Diabetes ect,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Medellin Traveler says on Jun 1, 2008, 10:59:

As much as I would like to see Hillary disappear, you can't argue against Obama's approach here......

Mr Obama hinted at the plan last week. “One of my heroes is Abraham Lincoln,� he said. “Lincoln basically pulled in all the people who had been running against him into his cabinet because whatever personal feelings there were, the issue was 'how can we get this country through this time of crisis?’ And I think that has to be the approach that one takes.�

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/democrats/20...

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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greg says on Jun 1, 2008, 13:33:

Aztec
Thanks for the Obama video. Made a lot of sense Shows what a sensible guy he is. As opposed to the McCain videos which scare me.

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aztec says on Jun 1, 2008, 13:46:

Lincon was a Republican. Jim crow and KKK are/were democrats. In fact, you still have Senator KKK Bird from West Virginia serving in his flaming glory.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 1, 2008, 14:24:

here's one for you aztec... i was raised around mason's all my life was asked to join on several occassions...i even studied masonry for years. just not the fraternity type, i break all the rules. when i had my bar in llano grande, one of the local gals when she saw all the masonic adornments in the bar told me that the masons were nothing but a bunch of clansmen. bullshit, i told her...you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

she told me she lived in florida for a number of years and all the masonics were kkk. it just ended up being an argument and i asked her to leave. i was raised in california.

when my parents retired--very elderly--to port orange florida, they contacted us in colombia and asked if we'ld come and take care of them. they said in return, they'ld take care of us. well, how can you say no to your parents? so, stella, our daughter and i packed up 9 1/2 ;tons of personal belongings and moved back to the u.s for the 3rd time.

in my professional life, i was a researcher in textiles and even had retail stores for carpets, fabrics, etc. too, i did appraisals. welllllllll, i get a call from one of florida's old families who had seen me on t.v. asking if i would appraise their rugs.

i go to their house and talk about mind-fuck. there's huge pictures of masonics...maybe 150 or so like at a sunday barbecue...then there's the same bunch in their kkk robes. way too wierd for me. the lady showed me business cards of some of her ancesters, masons, like 32 degree with a note on their card, as well, theat they were clansmen KKK.

much as i hated the idea, the chick was right. kkk, the fricken lot of em.

dwmte

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slguy says on Jun 1, 2008, 15:09:

maybe is unique to florida.

My stepfather was a mason of some bullshit type or another...and no one was further from a klansman.

they did have those goofy hats, and secret passwords, etc. I always laughed at him about that stuff. and don't get me started on those clowns on tiny motorcycles. jajajjajaja

funny part was- I never even met one of them that could hold their liquor. buncha lightweights. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Medellin Traveler says on Jun 1, 2008, 16:07:

slyguy,
You can't trust any man that can't hold his liquor. :O)

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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slguy says on Jun 1, 2008, 16:59:

Absolutely the truth, MT. ;)

Puts me in mind of a W.C Fields story. A world class baby hater, he was somehow persuaded to do a movie with a baby in a key role, althought the movie title escapes me.

On set one day, they went to get the baby, who was to be in the scene. The baby was out cold, with his bottle in the crib next to him. Furhter investigation revealed that the baby was actually passed out- the bottle mysteriously contained gin - Fields' favorite libation.

When it was announced that the scene shooting would be delayed, due to the passed out baby, Fields response was "I KNEW the little fucker couldn't hold his liquor!"

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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miamimike says on Jun 1, 2008, 21:11:

DWMTE--My Dad was a 32 Degree Mason and was incredibly prejudiced.He was the oldest living member in his Lodge having 68 active years as a Mason. That's a long time by any standard! He practically denounced me after I married a Latina. In fact, we never once spoke again and he passed away a couple years later.Funny you have a lot of Latinos conversely who are masons though the Lodges(masonic) here in the States are having a hard time filling membership openings as younger people just aren't interested.Especially big city Lodges. I cannot say all Masons are like my dad(prejudiced) as it really is against a True Mason's Core Philosophy and Beliefs; Masonic affiliation "makes a Good Man Better". And the deciding screenout factor to be accepted into Masonary is that the Potential Member has to belive in a Supreme Being(God, Budda, Mohhamed ect). None of these preach racism&Hatred so other actions going on here,,,A Buddy of mine in the service went up for entrance into the local Masonic Lodge(he was sponsored ) and his record was pretty clean but some member on the Interviewing panel shot him a Blackball due to the fact he was living with a woman outside of Marriage. I always thought it was the Captain of our Ship, a 32 degree member and Jewish, btw, so you can see some Lodges are pretty particular and in this case, if a Senior Military Person practiced racism aboard Ship/military, forget about getting into that Lodge.That was in 1967.

On a related note, the Shriners(playground of the Masonics) maintain a series of Hospitals for children with diseases such as polio, Burn centers ect. My Buddy back in the mid 50s was stricken with Polio and his parents took him to the Shriner's Zem Zem Hospital in our City for treatment and he was taken in immediately. No Questions asked! No insurance card, how you going to pay? Nada! The parents were Catholic and not Masonic members. My Buddy spent a year there, 8 months in an Iron Lung. He is now 66 years old and has lived a long life(for a polio survivor) Thanks to the treatment received at the Shriner's Hospital. And it never cost the Parents a Dime, all the associated costs to maintain these Hospitals are born by Masonic and Shrine Members,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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slguy says on Jun 1, 2008, 21:34:

my stepfather was also a shriner. they do GOOD work.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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CatGirl says on Jun 1, 2008, 22:45:

Hey guys...I was a Rebekah and worked for the Order, which was one the of first ones to accept women. The way it was explained to me was that the original functions in the US was to help those that need it. These Masonic Type Groups were very helpful before Govt. assistance (Medcaid/care). They also take care of their own until death. The Order I belonged to, had many members back in the day that had husbands who died in the War and they promised to take care of the widows. They own massive amount of property and are unfortunately being forced to sell in the past 15 years or so. They are having big troubles with getting in the younger crowd. The only way the Order I belonged to was able to recruit was through employment of younger employees and a little peer support ;)) (as opposed to pressure) I would never have joined the group otherwise, but it was considered an affiliation at the time with what we did........So MM - I mention this because of your comment about Shriners.
Sorry, but they are a dying breed (literally)....they still leave the Masonic Markers on their buildings "in memory of"

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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goin_south says on Jun 1, 2008, 23:46:

"Old White Dirty Bastard"

Really, now... McCain is a nearly classic-looking PASTY WHITE GRINGO! lol

Where do we go from here?

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aztec says on Jun 2, 2008, 05:34:

dwmte7, I am a Mason and I must tell you I have never, to my knowledge, met a KKK. For sure I have never met one in any lodge.

I suspect a lodge membership reflects the general make up of a particular community.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 2, 2008, 05:56:

aztec, nothing could have come as a more rude surprise to me. absolutely nothing. to see a 3ft wide photo of a whole community of masons in their robes and hoods. very disheartening to me.

i was so taken aback by the accusation by my lady friend in colombia, i, with much anger, demanded she leave my bar. too, at a later date, i saw her in gualanday (llano grande) and made a rude (inexcusable) gesture to her. (shame on me).

i was asked to submit for entrance into order in medellin by a friend of mine who is a craftsman there. i declined, even over his offer of sponsership.

when ever i see the youthful hearted shriners i always donate.

here in daytona, there are many 'black' lodges. you'll see their cars with all the seals of the lodges on the back.

dwmte

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dwmte7 says on Jun 2, 2008, 06:01:

this went wide of the thread on old white dirty bastards... now we're discussing wayward masons and honorable shriners. love it.

dwmte

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CatGirl says on Jun 2, 2008, 12:27:

......jeje - Douglas - don't forget that the OP is "white d b" and now we are talking about black lodges. What is a black lodge BTW ? Is this a term or are you referring to African Amercians? Or are these Lodges that follow the "left hand path" so to speak ;)

KKK? Uhhh....I am sure they have their ways, but not exactly what I would call a philanthropic (sp) group. Nothing better than a compartmentalized belief system that has strong roots to hate - yuk. You can see the same in terrorist groups. But it is all too REAL for them..........

OK - I digress, what were we talking about again? ja!

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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morphus says on Jun 2, 2008, 13:43:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261825,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1675631,00.html

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LDW says on Jun 2, 2008, 16:18:

If this thread were about Obama, and the word "black" substituted for white, we would have all of our PC crowd hollering HATE!!!!

Without being judgmental about the policies of either McCain or Obama, I predict that McCain will win. The reason is simple. Many of Hillary's supporters (enough of them anyway), will cross party lines and vote for McCain.

Exit polls is places like West Virginia (which the Reps usually win anyway) and in Pennsylvania (which the Dems usually win) indicate that 25% to 30% of Hillary's voters will vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. I would expect the same is true in many other states, including those where Obama has won the Dem primary.

I reckon Obama is doomed to lose. Too much of his delegate strength is from states that the Reps usually win, whereas Hillary's elegate strength is more from states that the Dems usualy win, and must really win if they are going to get the white house.

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kalder says on Jun 4, 2008, 00:47:

LDW has point. I presume 'white' is being used as a pejorative? If so, it begs the question why?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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aztec says on Jun 4, 2008, 13:23:

Kennedy stole the electon in Cook County. Mob helped him out!

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miamimike says on Jun 5, 2008, 01:11:

Aztec--something like the 2000 Gore/Bush election where the US Supreme court stopped the florida recount. I can agree, those outside influences can really skewer election results,,,

===================================================================

Doc--though I believe Nixon was the better qualified and the Politically astute of the two, Kennedy realized the importance of TV in that Election. I'm a Nixon fan though so I'm biased! Kennedy played the TV medium like a fine Violin. Just as Obama Handlers realized the importance of raising small amounts of Money via the Internet. Clinton honed in on big donors($2300 limit) whereas Obama had 100 times more small donors that he could keep going back and asking for another $10-$20 when needed. He will use this to good advantage over McCain as it appears he, like Hillary, has not harnessed this power of the Internet for fund raising. He(mccain) was broke once already and still isn't loaded with Cash at this moment. McCain could come to regret those town hall meetings he challenged Obama to,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 5, 2008, 20:30:

MM, I thought Florida recounted a few times. Didn't they stop a 3rd or 4th recount? If I remember correctly, everytime they recounted, Bush gained more votes?

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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christobeldawg says on Jun 5, 2008, 20:45:

this is getting interesting, a weak old white Republican candidate, and a young charismatic black liberal, with no experience. This should be totally divisive, across the country.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Jun 6, 2008, 00:03:

I think Romney... (did I see that?) ... as VP adds alot of strength to the Repo's

Where do we go from here?

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LDW says on Jun 6, 2008, 17:01:

Nixon lost to Kennedy because Nelson Rockefeller refused to be Nixon's running mate.

Nelson wanted the top job.

If Rockefeller had accepted Nixon's request, Nixon would have carried New York, and perhaps some other key states. As it was, the election was extremely close, and Nixon even won more states than Kennedy. Kennedy won the big ones (except California).

Rockefeller running as Nixon's VP would have made the difference.

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gringoloid says on Jun 6, 2008, 17:41:

We have to go with the race that we had................we can't predict now what could have happened if Rockefeller ran.

we do know now that almost every gravestone in Chicago voted for JFK, thanks to Sam Giancana. LBJ pulled some crooked strings in his homeTexas. Ole Joe Kennedy gave $25 to anyone in West Virginia that would vote for his son.....etc. You only need 7 states to win the election............Illinois and Texas were essential.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 6, 2008, 17:42:

Nixon did spend a good part of the heighth of the campaign season with a broken leg, or something like that......................i dunno if that had an effect.............maybe some impact.

Who are the three blind men?

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aztec says on Jun 6, 2008, 19:20:

Kennedy stole the election!

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billyb says on Jun 6, 2008, 23:18:

"Kennedy stole the electon in Cook County. Mob helped him out!"

It was callled the "riverside district", King Richard (as well as Giancana and the chicago sindicate, oh wait, it was called the Outfit by then) came through for Kennedy, but do you see anybody rejecting it? I hardly doubt it.

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gringoloid says on Jun 9, 2008, 19:32:

JFK tried to make the world a fairer place unlike any President that I know of, including the present one.

JFK was withdrawing from Viet Nam, he wouldn't go into Cuba, he was negotiating for peace with the Russians through his brother Bobby with a KGB agent named Bolkachev outside of the Defense Intelligence Agency, CIA, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and finally he was denying Israel nuclear weapons which got him killed. How is this power hungry?

Strangely, a goat herder in Africa by the name of Barack Obama Sr was a participant in one of JFK's social programs that gave him an education at Harvard.

Who are the three blind men?

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christobeldawg says on Jun 9, 2008, 20:18:

I know you have researched this much GLoid. Is that what got him killed, from what you have seen denying Israel nukes? Did I read that correctly?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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gringoloid says on Jun 10, 2008, 06:24:

Cdawg................there were actually many reasons including all of the above..................McGeorge Bundy wrote a decree to go into Nam within 24 hours of the assassination. JFK hadn't even been buried yet..........................the military industrial complex got to keep the cold war going with the Russians and climaxed with Reagans 'star wars' missiles................LBJ approved nukes for Israel without any supervision....................J Edgar Hoover got to keep his job beyond the mandatory retirement....................LBJ was not dumped from the 1964 ticket, so keeping his job too. the kennedys called him 'ole cornpone' and were going to dump him.......after the Bay of Pigs, JFK said he would, "tear up the CIA into a 1000 pieces". The CIA was very powerful back then.

the VP ususally rides in the next car behind the president and his agents. LBJ was placed in the 5th car that day.............and reports say that he was visibly nervous and scared. Just before LBJ died he admitted it was a conspiracy. John Connally always said there were 3 or4 groups of shooters.

RFK was taken out because he said when he becomes president he would bring his brothers killers to justice. He also had trouble with the Mob.

google "permindex' if you want to find out who killed JFK.

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 10, 2008, 06:46:

I think Doc meant Old Joe, when he said power hungry. JFK got killed because he double crossed a lot of nasty people, starting with, but not limited to the mob. You play with dogs, you get fleas.

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gringoloid says on Jun 10, 2008, 16:21:

billy, who did JFK double cross? he was the one double crossed at the Bay of Pigs. as far as cuba, since when does the mob dictate foreign policy to the president? he fought the mob, he didn't double cross them. he also started printing silver certificates against the Federal Reserve mob...............what's wrong with fighting the Federal Reserve? Him and maybe Nixon were the last presidents to actually try to change things.

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 10, 2008, 16:42:

He double crossed the cubans who landed at the Bay of Pigs, whom he had promised air support and then left stranded on the beach with no air support to be mowed down or captured by castro's troops. His pop made a deal with the chicago outfit to get out the vote for him,never mind if some of those voters had been dead for a while, and against whom he then seeked his bro bobby on. He also didn't want to do anything against the soviets when they set up mid range nukes in Cuba, until the cia forced his hand. loid, a better question might have been, who didn't he cross.

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goin_south says on Jun 10, 2008, 17:28:

".......kick your feet up and watch the classic comedy by your future president."
Yes, and just imagine: That's the good news. Now, here's the bad:


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Also this year, Obama voted FOR the "DREAM" Act, which would allow illegal aliens to receive in-state tuition rates at public universities, discriminating against U.S. citizens from out of state and law-abiding foreign students.
In September of 2007, when asked if he would allow "sanctuary cities" to exist, which ignore the federal law & provide sanctuary to illegal aliens, he REFUSED to answer the question.
In March of this year, Obama voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities."
In May of 2006, Obama voted YES to establish a "guest worker" program with a path to citizenship for ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Again in May of 2006, Obama voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
And, of course, Barack Obama voted YES on the McCain-Kennedy so-called "comprehensive immigration reform" AMNESTY bill.
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Where do we go from here?

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gringoloid says on Jun 10, 2008, 17:29:

billy, nixon wrote the bay of pigs plan while he was vp. jfk never promised any air support of any kind and he was not behind the plan......it was just too advanced for him to stop it which he would have liked to have done. jfk did not give the order to call off the air support from nicaragua, it was mcgeorge bundy who did that. afterwards, jfk said he was going to eliminate the CIA as a result of all the lies they told him. jfk was the one that was lied to in this affair.

it was not known until year 2000 that the russians knew about the bay of pigs invasion two weeks in advance.

the chicago mob got the vote out with the gravestones, for sure..............they then tried to extort favors..........this is not a double cross, this is extortion. Giancana used judith campbell exner as is go between to tell jfk what he wanted. just because jfk doesn't go along with murder and starting wars as a result of being put in by the chicago mob doesn't mean he is a double crosser.

a little known fact is that the reason the russians set up nukes in cuba is because we first set up nukes in Turkey. So JFK set up a naval blockade and agreed to take down the nukes that were set up in Turkey. He solved the problem without a war, a war that the CIA and the military industrial complex wanted. How is this a double cross?

JFK wanted change..........if that means that he is to step on a few toes of the bad boys of the country..........then so be it because it is the only way you will have any change.

Who are the three blind men?

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goin_south says on Jun 10, 2008, 17:34:

(and, I've got a little beef to aire about illegales, for the moment, and likely now, forevermore)

Where do we go from here?

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billyb says on Jun 10, 2008, 20:50:

Loid, what do you think of the theory that the kennedys were involved in monroe's death? Or is that the one conspiracy theory you don't buy ;)

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christobeldawg says on Jun 10, 2008, 22:19:

I actually was behind that one billyb, we had issues. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Lcacique says on Jun 10, 2008, 23:52:

I thought Castro got word of the invasion through his own men in Florida. Besides, he was well aware that the attack was coming...Che witnessed the coup in Guatemala (an event that had a shaped his life).

Anyway, everyone involved in the debacle agrees now that the correct decision was made...The US, completely ignorant of Cuban history and the sentiment of the masses (go figure), incorrectly believed that the invaders would be welcomed with open arms by the campesinos (sound familiar?). According to Arthur Schlesinger Jr. (Kennedy's Special Asst.), the Deputy Director of Intelligence was not even asked if these assumptions were correct, noting that he would have stated that they were false. Castro wisely armed the people who were ecstatic to defend the island from the obvious threat to the North. The poetic/inspirational/prophetic words of Martí swimming in their hearts and minds. If the plan had gone forward, the Us would have been forced to send in troops because the Cubans were not going to let another occupying force stand in the way of independence once again. Most officials from the day recognize that this would have been worse for the Us than the failure of the invasion because it would have likely been the United States' Hungary with thousands upon thousands of Cubans dead.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 06:05:

It probably was an ill conceived plan, but that still doesn't absolve Kennedy of letting men go to prison , or to their deaths believing he would provide air support, when he had no intention of doing so. And Loid, what kind of president was he, if he didn't have the power to stop the invasion? More likely what he lacked was the will to stop it, which is even worse.

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 06:26:

Billy, on the issue of Marilyn Monroe, yes I believe she was murdered because there were no barbituates in her stomach and all the pills were found in her lower intestine. It's ususally the other way around, you die with the pills in your stomach and few make it to the intestine. The first policeman on the scene refutes and disagrees totally with suicide determination by the coroner. In conspiracy theory these first reports are very important and probably the real truth. She had lots of problems, including with RFK'. But I still don't see how this fits in with your accusation of double cross.

Politics is a dirty business...........murders happen all the time.........you just don't see this in the dupe news and is basically never reported.

Was Marilyn trying to double cross JFK?

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 06:37:

"But I still don't see how this fits in with your accusation of double cross."

It had nothing to do with our double-cross discussion, I was just curious about your thoughts on Marilyn's death. I actually find these theories interesting, although I can't say I am as ready to believe most them as you are, I also would not be surprised to find that any of them are true.


"Was Marilyn trying to double cross JFK?'

I wouldn't be surprised.

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 06:57:

dam it..........i just wrote a nice 3 paragraph statement and my internet went off.......so it's lost.

on the conspiracy theories, or conspiracy reality, or truth seeking, lets take them one by one..............................do you accept Bush, Cheneys 2002 statements that Saddam Hussein was massing troups on the Saudi border and was preparing to use nuclear weapons?

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:03:

I don't recall hearing them say he was "preparing" to use nukes, but as far as massing troops on his border, it's not too hard to convince the Iranians or Kuwaitis that Saddam was not at all reluctant to invade his neighbors.

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:04:

Science, physics, medical autopsies do not change daily...........it is true every day of the week. I use facts to determine the truth.

I don't know how Marilyn died......................but when you add up the evidence along with the initial police reports....................along with the usual 'sweep it under the carpet'', you have a cover up.

Did Nixon initially try to cover up Watergate? If so, why do you believe in this conspiracy theory and not others?

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:10:

I agree that marilyn's death was a cover-up, but as to the other theories, it is not that I don't disbelieve them, it is that there are so many different versions for each one, that how would you know which one to believe, except for believing the ones that fit your preconcieved notions? Gotta go to work, catcha on the otherside;)

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:14:

Now you're giving me something I can sink my teeth into: ¨¨I don't recall hearing them say he was "preparing" to use nukes¨¨

Colin Powell appeared before the United Nations with (claimed) satellite photos of Iraqi missile silos. A total lie.

You can investigate further with the Bush regimes claim of an ¨¨imminent nuclear threat¨¨

National Security Strategy 2002
The National Security Strategy of September 2002, "outlined the U.S. government's policy for national defense. In it, the Bush administration argued that the concept in international law of 'imminent threat' -- which allows countries to defend themselves against opponents who are poised to attack them - must be given a new meaning in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks:[1]

"For centuries, international law recognized that nations need not suffer an attack before they can lawfully take action to defend themselves against forces that present an imminent danger of attack. Legal scholars and international jurists often conditioned the legitimacy of preemption on the existence of an imminent threat-most often a visible mobilization of armies, navies, and air forces preparing to attack.
"We must adapt the concept of imminent threat to the capabilities and objectives of today's adversaries. Rogue states and terrorists do not seek to attack us using conventional means. They know such attacks would fail. Instead, they rely on acts of terror and, potentially, the use of weapons of mass destruction-weapons that can be easily concealed, delivered covertly, and used without warning...
"...The United States has long maintained the option of preemptive actions to counter a sufficient threat to our national security. The greater the threat, the greater is the risk of inaction- and the more compelling the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves, even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack. To forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries, the United States will, if necessary, act preemptively."

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:28:

this press secretary scott mcdermott wrote a book about all the lies about Iraq recently. there is nothing in that book that anyone with half a brain couldn´´t have figured out 5 years ago.

so i´m part of the 2% that knew they were lying about all of the chemical, biological, and nuke development. so with all due respects billy, you were part of the 98% and wrong.

conspiracy theory is determining the truth and nothing else.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 08:02:

i´m trying to post an FBI document that shows MM was trying to blackmail JFK. I can´t cut and paste this pdf document. i do have permission to copy.

does anybody know how i can post this pdf document?............i´ve tried everything.

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 08:18:

Having weapons that pose an imminent threat is not the same thing as "preparing" those weapons for imminent use.

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 11:22:

either way the results show that it was used as a false basis or starting the war.

they had no weapons........so obviously they weren''t preparing any weapons.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 11:26:

In any event it was conspiracy theorists like Joe Smith and his wife Valerie Plame, U.N. weapons inspectors, investigative reporters, ....and a lot of other people risking their lives to determine the truth.

Why average people want to attack investigative reporting is byond me.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 11:29:

Getting back on track.............the OP is talking about McCain........................who I say is a mirror image of Bush.

He is going to provide us truthseekers with a lot of work to do in the coming years, if elected.

Who are the three blind men?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 11, 2008, 11:52:

Statistically, it doesn't seem like working for the CIA, even undercover and during the Cold War, has been all that dangerous. Eighty-seven people have been killed on the job in 50 plus years...

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/rememberin...

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 13:20:

I think Plame's husband's name was Wilson, not Smith, and isn't he jsut a self promoter?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 13:50:

that's correct, Wilson.................if he is a self promoter, why would Scooter Libby go through the trouble of 'outing'his wife Valerie and winding up convicted? (with Libbys jail term pardoned and his $250 grand fine easily payable by making a speech at any zionist conference.(

weren''t these stories that the Bush regime were promoting about the uranium from Africa proven false?

Look what happens when you go against the lies of the administration.

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 14:11:

Scooter wasn't the one who outed Plame, it was Richard Armitage at the State Dept. who outed her, Libby was charged with perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to federal investigators, but not with revealing the identity of an undercover officer, as most people mistakenly believe was the charge. BTW, Plame had been a desk jockey for years anyways.

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 14:12:

"weren''t these stories that the Bush regime were promoting about the uranium from Africa proven false?"

Actually the source for Niger yellowcake story was British Intelligence.

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 15:42:

Was Armitage charged or convicted of anything in anyway? Was he not just doing his job?

What Armitage did was not a crime according to prosecutors.

I notice that you Billy along with most all of my other critics do not address my points but pick at them as avoid the point entirely. The point was that it took conspiracy theorists to unwind the affair and people like yourself who only 'believe'' what they see on TV would still be in the dark.

Scooter was the highest person convicted in the affair, he was pardoned before his appeals process, unlike Martha Stewart and a whole crew of insider traders, so the point still stands in terms of criminality. In his liar conviction, what was his lie?

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 15:58:

Again avoiding the issue..........I said that President Bush promoted a story that was false about the uranium, not who the source was.

Here are 16 words from his State of the Union address of 2003:

":The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

That would be promoting a story, no?

Everything Bush said about this Iraqi affair turns out to be a total lie.

This is a guy that told the truth and paid for it with his life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)

BTW, there were no fingerprints on the knife that he used to "'commit suicide"".

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 16:00:

This guy David Kelly was another Lee Harvey Oswald if there ever was one.

Who are the three blind men?

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Lcacique says on Jun 11, 2008, 16:14:

Wow, gloid...Interesting that you were also part of the two percent that screamed BS back when the administration was drumming up support for an illegitimate war with wild fabrications. To me it was also plain as day and I couldn't help but feel that I was taking part in a giant Stanley Milgram experiment. Blind obedience...

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 16:55:

"What Armitage did was not a crime according to prosecutors'

Because there was no crime there, the only crime was the perjury, just like with Billy C. Libby got charged with lying about what he knew, not outing her, like you insinuated.

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 16:57:

":The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

That would be promoting a story, no?

No, that would just be making a mistake by believing the inteligence service of our best ally.

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 16:59:

"I notice that you Billy along with most all of my other critics do not address my points but pick at them as avoid the point entirely. "

I'm not your critic, just pointing out some innacuracies in your statements.

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billyb says on Jun 11, 2008, 17:26:

"Interesting that you were also part of the two percent that screamed BS back when the administration was drumming up support for an illegitimate war with wild fabrications."

Even a broken clock is right twice a day :) No offence, but i have a feeling you guys would have been calling BS even if everything they had said would have later proven to be 100% correct.

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Lcacique says on Jun 11, 2008, 17:47:

billyb: that is a nice observation about clocks. While it is a convenient position for you to take, I regret to inform you that I would not have called BS if the administration was honest; however, they were not. That is a simple, undeniable fact. It is true that I was biased, but not for the reasons that you want to believe. I knew that Cheney was a despicable individual long before he became the VP and I was also aware of Rumsfelds history. Therefore, I was sceptical, admittedly. Nevertheless, I was justified to have reservations and time has demonstrated that they both continued to be deceitful. They destroyed their own credibility.

Gloid and I are not two peas in a pod. We have come to verbal blows on several occasions. I do not spend time researching conspiracy theories so I can't say that I agree with all of his arguments, but I do agree that it was clear from the start that the administration was fabricating, manipulating and editing evidence to suit their needs.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 18:10:

"What Armitage did was not a crime according to prosecutors'

Because there was no crime there, the only crime was the perjury, just like with Billy C. Libby got charged with lying about what he knew, not outing her, like you insinuated.
.
.
.
.
.Billy, yes there was a crime there.......a very serious crime...........you weren't around when that law was created and the reason of why it was needed. You can believe what you want, if you feel that she wasn't outed, Libby had nothing to do with it, there was no crime, you're in with the 98%.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 18:18:

"I notice that you Billy along with most all of my other critics do not address my points but pick at them as avoid the point entirely. "

I'm not your critic, just pointing out some innacuracies in your statements.,
,
,
,
,Billy you completely miss the point of the statements, let alone point out inaccuracies. We're using general rules of debate here, you're only points are things like, the WMDs were not 'imminent' because they weren't prepared yet. Even thought you can google about a million pages where Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld used the word imminent over and over again.

Definition of imminent from dictionary.com":

im·mi·nent Audio Help /ˈɪmənənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[im-uh-nuhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

1. likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent.
2. projecting or leaning forward; overhanging.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 18:31:

quote: Even a broken clock is right twice a day :) No offence, but i have a feeling you guys would have been calling BS even if everything they had said would have later proven to be 100% correct.


Wrong again, and very wrong this time.................his fathers siege of Iraq was totally based on falsehoods so I had plenty of practice sifting out the BS.

Iraq was in a state of collapse at the time of the George jrs siege began. There was a very effective embargo in the previous ten years that caused the deaths of 500,000 Iraqis. They couldn't fight anybody.

The story that Saddam used gas on his own people was disproven by our own CIA BEFORE the war started.

There were plenty of lies from the bush regime that were debunked long before the war started.

I've posted documents in other threads where Rumsfeld urged his staff to cook up some stories to blame Iraq for the attack on the WTC at 3PM on the afternoon of 911.

Facts, Billy, Facts....

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 11, 2008, 19:03:

Here is a CIA analyst being laughed at because he says there were no WMDs and that the gas used was not genocide because the iranians were using it also.

billy is that you in the audience? truth seekers are almost always correct eventually, so when are the dupes going to admit that they were duped?

Who are the three blind men?

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Medellin Traveler says on Jun 11, 2008, 19:09:

Here's a great read...
JFK Murder Plot "Deathbed Confession" Aired On National Radio
Former CIA agent, Watergate conspirator E. Howard Hunt names the men who killed Kennedy

Why was this information ignored by the general media?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/300407deathbedconfessio...

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 06:20:

".Billy, yes there was a crime there.......a very serious crime...........'

Then why wasn't Armitage charged with that serious crime? He is the one who outed her, not Libby, he just lied about what he knew. Facts, Loid, facts.


"There was a very effective embargo in the previous ten years that caused the deaths of 500,000 Iraqis. "

Please show us believable documentation of this "fact", from an independent and unbiased source, preferably not Ariana Huffington ;)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 12, 2008, 06:28:

Effective embargo? I believe the UN's Oil for Food program was the biggest (uncovered) corruption scandal of all time. For just one example, look at the quasi-government Australian Wheat Board who had a monopoly on exporting Australia's wheat, and were up to their necks in dirty deals.

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 06:46:

And weren't the UN dudes in charge of monitoring the embargo getting these oil allocations from Saddam, which they then would sell on the open market at huge profits, so they would look the other way?

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gringoloid says on Jun 12, 2008, 08:39:

billy, i've had enough.............lets face it, you're a dupe.............i think i exaggerated when i said you dupes have less than half a brain. you've now hit a new depth of cognitive impairment.

why don't you read a little about a subject before you start talking about something you know nothing about; except your religion of Fox News.

So far you haven't addressed a single point.................you say there was no crime involved in the outing of valerie plame, even though there is a conviction,; you ask me why wasn't armitage charged as if i'm the prosecutor and I already answered that question anyway.

now, as a person in the dark and out in left field you who knows nothing about what you''re talking about in the Iraq war..........you ask me for a source on some information that anyone with half a brain could have found. but i forgot, you're in the less than half a brain group.

how about every human rights organization i've ever been read about has studied the effects of the embargo on Iraqis.

You and 98% of the rednecks in the usa are responsible for all the problems we have in the world and i've noticed it's caused by a lack of intelligence.

Here is one report from the United Nations.........and there are many many more:




.
.Clinton administration blocks easing of sanctions against Iraq
By Barry Grey
28 September 1999
Use this version to print

After two weeks of intensive negotiations within the United Nations Security Council, the United States has blocked efforts by France, Russia and China to lift sanctions against Iraq. Washington has thereby ensured the continuation of a policy which must rank as one of the great crimes against humanity of the twentieth century.

Only last month the UN children's agency, UNICEF, released a study showing that nine years of economic embargo, compounded by the devastation from two air wars, have produced a “humanitarian emergency.� UNICEF reported that mortality rates among infants and children under five in the central and southern parts of the country which are controlled by Baghdad, where 85 percent of Iraqis live, have more than doubled since 1989. The study further concluded that 20 percent of Iraqi children under five suffer from stunted growth caused by malnutrition.

UNICEF estimated that 500,000 child deaths are attributable to the sanctions.

A number of other reports and eyewitness accounts have documented the existence of a social catastrophe in Iraq, resulting from the relentless economic, political and military assault by the most powerful nation in the world. In recent years Bill Clinton and his counterparts in Europe have employed the term “genocide� with near abandon to demonize leaders and regimes targeted for attack. But if anything in the past decade approaches the level of genocide, it is the systematic destruction of an entire nation carried out by the United States against Iraq.

To cite some of the indices of this tragedy:

* Iraq claims that from August 6, 1990, when UN sanctions were first imposed in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, to late August of this year, 1,187,486 Iraqis died from sanctions-related causes. The United Nations estimates that 1 million have died, mostly children.

* Iraq's economy has been shattered by sanctions and US-led bombings. Industry, irrigation, sanitation, the supply of clean water, healthcare and education have virtually collapsed. Baghdad claims the country's Gross Domestic Product is presently one-third of its pre-1991 level.

* Studies have shown a drastic increase in the rate of birth defects and cancer as a result of environmental poisoning from depleted uranium weapons.

* Jutta Burghardt, the head of the UN's World Food Program in Iraq, told a delegation of US congressional staffers earlier this month that Iraqi families spend approximately 70 percent of their total income for food. Burghardt said that by world and UN standards, that figure indicates “imminent famine.�

* Denis Halliday, the former United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq, who resigned in protest over the continuation of sanctions, claims the embargo is responsible for the death of 6,000 Iraqis every month.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Jun 12, 2008, 08:44:

i feel like i'm teaching a 3rd grade class.........so along with Sr Tertius,

billy, you ain't got the brains to argue with me...........

what is it with you colombians that have left colombia? you, Sr Tertius, cerealkiller, are unable to even do simple pattern recognition let alone inductive or deductive reasoning.

the colombians i see here in colombia have a willingness to learn.

Who are the three blind men?

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 09:06:

"* Iraq claims that from August 6, 1990, when UN sanctions were first imposed in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, to late August of this year, 1,187,486 Iraqis died from sanctions-related causes. The United Nations estimates that 1 million have died, mostly children."

Iraq, now that is a reliable source. LOL. Iraq had plenty of money filtering in from the almost non-existent embargoe to feed and provice medical care to his people if chose to do so, but he instead decided to spend that money on weapons and a series of monstrous palaces and mosques. BTW, I'm sorry that you felt the need to resort to personal insults when you found your shaky assertions challenged by facts, i had expected more from you.

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 09:17:

".................you say there was no crime involved in the outing of valerie plame, even though there is a conviction"

I'm sorry but I am going to have to invoke logic here again, and I know that's to you like kryptonite is to super man.
Libby was not charged or convicted with outing Plame, FACT.
Armitage outed Plame, FACT.
Armitage was not charged with outing Plame, FACT.
So you tell me, where is the charge for outing Plame?
Self described truthseekers should, by deffinition, seek the truth.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 12, 2008, 09:36:

Keep it civil. Disagree all you wish, but don't call into question whether a person has half a brain or no brain.

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 09:45:

Yeah, how do you like that, I got demoted from less than half a brain to no brain at all in just two posts ;))

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 14:30:

"the colombians i see here in colombia have a willingness to learn."

I think it's more a case of you seeing colombians that are too ignorant to know when somebody is BSing them ;)

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christobeldawg says on Jun 12, 2008, 18:44:

billyb, generally you are insulted like that only in the main section. What is happening down here?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 18:55:

jaja, I know, There is deffinitely a marked lack of civility on this thread, but that's what happens when the penthouse dwelers come slumming in our basement. Or Maybe I just bring out the worst in people ;)) And I was sure I had slightly more then less than half a brain.

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christobeldawg says on Jun 12, 2008, 18:59:

Pink Panthers need to rescue this basement under siege. They need to root out the evil doers. Did you read what Charles Manson said about your country's people? I thought people in jail were not allowed to post. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:03:

I think he just gave too much papaya and some civic minded colombian felt it was his duty to take advantage of him for the sole purpose of teaching him a life lesson.

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christobeldawg says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:06:

I mean really, 90%? I was thinking no more than 80, 85 at best.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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billyb says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:20:

jeje, that's not very nice.

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christobeldawg says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:30:

sorry, I haven't run into scammers down there, well maybe a couple of gringos that were there. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:50:

Dawg, did you mean Pink Panties?

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:57:

I've seen that mis-quoted twice tonight, now... everyone knows yer new name is....

.........................Las Bragas Rosas.

Where do we go from here?

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goin_south says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:58:

And, I'm glad to see this is completely off-topic, because our country ain't got a freakin chance, with the likes of Obama/McCain in the running.

Where do we go from here?

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aztec says on Jun 13, 2008, 08:13:

"John McCain: Old White Dirty Bastard, For PRESIDENT!"

If the post had read "Barack Obama: Dirty Black Bastard for President" our PC crowd would have gone nuts.

Our Democrats would have screamed racist. It is even doubtful the moderators would have allowed the post to remain.

Note the post was made on May 31, 2008.

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travelingirl says on Jun 13, 2008, 09:54:

Very interesting observation, aztec. I'm kind of pissed for not thinking of this myself. lol I guess I've just been conditioned to "accept" headlines such as this one without getting all up in arms about it. Maybe b/c they occur so frequently.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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Medellin Traveler says on Jun 13, 2008, 10:52:

Some people need not take life too seriously. I was just having fun with the thread title...

FYO: Russell Tyrone Jones (November 15, 1968–November 13, 2004) was an African-American rapper who went by the stage name Ol' Dirty Bastard (often shortened to ODB). He was one of the founding members of the hip hop group Wu-Tang Clan.

Ol' Dirty Bastard simultaneously brought a measure of humor and a touch of the absurd to the Wu-Tang Clan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol'_Dirty_Bastard

No need to get pissed, life's too short, be happy.

AND..

ANYONE voting for McCain should consider getting their head examined, seriously.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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goin_south says on Jun 13, 2008, 10:56:

and, anyone voting for obama drama should consider getting their head examined,... SERIOUSLY.

Where do we go from here?

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travelingirl says on Jun 13, 2008, 10:58:

I didn't mean pissed as in mad... more like disappointed that I didn't think of it before aztec did. haha And that was part of my point... the fact that I didn't get mad or upset about the title of the thread.

At least the Wu Tang dude was calling himself by that name