Gringos de la embajada que violaron a una niña.

webmanco says on Dec 6, 2007, 05:40:

Pero dicen por ahí que es puro cuento de las Farc !!!

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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paisa29 says on Dec 6, 2007, 05:42:

Ayer habló la jefe de prensa de la embajada diciendo que estaban investigando el asunto, no creo que sea mentiras.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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de pronto says on Dec 6, 2007, 06:08:

Es una pena en verdad y no es por nada pero me parece gracioso que algunos gringos se ofendan porque les dicen "gringos", ya que es igual a "green go"

Si esa es la manera de comportarse de algunos de ellos efectivamente deberíamos decirles a los que van a nuestros países a cometer crimenes de este tipo: GREEN GO!

Y como dicen mis amigos colombianos, esos "HP deberían castrarlos", lástima que la misma ley que tanto toman como bandera defienda a estos tipos.

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

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Rob77 says on Dec 6, 2007, 06:36:

". . . nos tratan como criminales . . . "? Muchas filas de gente que desean ser tratados como criminales, no?

Te refieres a como la embajada ofrece la oportunidad (no el derecho!) de viajar como turista o estudiante, etc., a Estados Unidos como invitado? Y que prefieren asegurar que los invitados cumplan su deber de regresar a Colombia antes de que expire su estadia permitida? O eres de los que creen que debes tener derecho vivir donde quiera sin permiso de nadie?

Estados Unidos debe de exigir un deposito de garantia de 20 millones en efectivo para asegurar que cada persona regrese a su pais! Son mas de 12 millones de personas que estan en el pais sin permiso!

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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gabolicious says on Dec 6, 2007, 07:02:

"de viajar como turista o estudiante, etc., a Estados Unidos como invitado? Y que prefieren asegurar que los invitados cumplan su deber "...

sí rob, yo añado: "como invitado o como trabajador, los invitados deben cumplir con su deber en el país que visitan o trabajan y también apegarse a la ley colombiana (en este caso) y no violar a niñas ni a mujeres... también los americanos deben comportarse como se debe, no crees?

Elección no canonización....

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Rob77 says on Dec 6, 2007, 07:24:

". . . también los americanos deben comportarse como se debe, no crees?"

De acuerdo. Pero, explica a que se debe la sensacionalismo en las pocas veces que extranjeros estan implicados? Al solo leer El Tiempo veras este tipo de crimen cometido seguido por Colombianos. Sin embargo, a paisa29 le da mucho mas pesar en la rara ocasion que sean culpables extranjeros, si es que resulta ser confirmada. O no han visto las carteleras enormes en Bogotá con caras de criminales Colombianos culpables de estos crimenes? El momento que mencionen extranjeros, unos Colombianos, como paisa29, instigan escandalo!

Si unos extranjeros al final se encuentran culpables, seran castigados. Y si no sean castigados en Colombia, donde la mayoria de crimenes todavia estan clasificados como ex-carcelables, seran castigados en Estados Unidos, donde les aseguro que los castigos son mucho mas pesados.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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gabolicious says on Dec 6, 2007, 07:45:

Pues sí, un criminal es criminal independientemente de su nacionalidad... me imagino que si un wetback (que por supuesto está ilegal en tu país) violara a una niña de 5 años (una niña caucásica).. me imagino la indignación de tus connacionales (en caso de que seas americano).

La indignación de paisita, me imagino que es porque así como la embajada americana se "asegura" de que los que entren a E.U como invitados como vos decís, no sean como estos tipos, también debería asegurarse de que los ciudadanos que representan a su país en una embajada sean buenos ciudadanos y no criminales.

Elección no canonización....

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MrBird says on Dec 6, 2007, 09:01:

Me gustaria ver el articulo. Quien puede encontrarlo y poner un link a un fuente reliable? El razon que quiero verlo es que historicamente, incluyendo en los estados, la violacion de una nina por parte de una persona de la otra raza, o cancha de pensamiento, es una cuenta arquetipico enojar una poblacion. Es absolutament arquetipico por toda la historia del mundo! Este no es decir que no ha pasado, solamente que yo quiero ver el articulo y un fuente reliable antes que voy a creer en alguien que dice "apenas anoche yo ví la noticia en Caracol."

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droble77 says on Dec 6, 2007, 09:06:

Is there a link to this anywhere on the web? I couldn't google it up. If this is true, that's some crazy chit man! Didn't realize the standards were lowering so much. :0)) It's ironic because U.S. laws are very tough regarding child molesters and have international reach with the PROTECT Act, but diplomatic immunity saves him from a Colombian jail I guess.

Paisa, if it's any comfort, this guy could end up in a federal prison for a very long time, and that isn't much better than a carcel colombiano.

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webmanco says on Dec 6, 2007, 09:22:

http://www.eltiempo.com/justicia/2007-10-07/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR...

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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gabolicious says on Dec 6, 2007, 09:35:

Mr Bird "El razon que quiero verlo es que historicamente, incluyendo en los estados, la violacion de una nina por parte de una persona de la otra raza, o cancha de pensamiento, es una cuenta arquetipico enojar una poblacion." No importa si haya sido de otra raza o del otro lado de la cancha, sólo puse el ejemplo para ser digamos ser más... claros.

Y en realidad mi indignación personal va más allá de si el violador es gringo o colombiano. Sólo respondí el comentario de Rob, para mí cualquier violador sea de donde sea incluyendo gringos o colombianos deben, como dice "de pronto" ser castrados. Esas bestias VIOLARON A UNA NIÑA!!!!!

Elección no canonización....

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paisa29 says on Dec 6, 2007, 12:03:

Rob... primero que todo mi intención no es armar un escandalo, ni crear sensacionalismo, simplemente estoy compartiendo lo que sentí cuando ví y escuché esa noticia que me causó mucha tristeza.

La noticia fue divulgada anoche en television en el noticiero Caracol de las 7:00 pm

http://www.tercerainformacion.es/3i/article2193.html

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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Albatross says on Dec 6, 2007, 12:20:

I've got nothing to say about anyone who goes after children... I simply don't understand it.
But I despise the growing trend to punish people in their home country for commiting a crime abroad.
No government owns it's citizens. People are only bound to respect local laws, not those of their country of origin. When I'm outside the U.S., I'm outside their laws.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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gabolicious says on Dec 6, 2007, 12:23:

y ese es el problema Albatross que las autoridades de colombia tal vez no quieran meterse con "diplomaticos" estadounidenses...

Elección no canonización....

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Lisa Zee says on Dec 6, 2007, 12:44:

This is really weir? a 12 year old in a discoteca? where was the mother? so sad and sick, they should cut off their d---- !. No jail no waisting time on trials and money.

"La verdadera sabiduría esta en reconocer la propia ignorancia" Socrates

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droble77 says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:43:

Oh okay, I heard about this case, I thought this was a new one. Paisa29 mentioned something about a six year old! This girl was 12 when it happened though that's still too young. Unfortunately, some poor girls are already engaging in the world's oldest profesion at that age. That's why she was at the disco Lisa. I'm sure there are shady bars or clubs all around the country where you will see some jail bait, both under Colombian and American law. Still can't understand how these guys were that stupid. Don't they get "the talk" by their superiors that yeah there's a lot of hotties down here, but be careful and be legal and don't be stupid!

Albatross, I get your point but no American politician is going to want to be perceived to be for the rights of child molesters. That's why these bills are so easily bi-partisan and signed into law. It also touches on the issue of first-world citizens preying on and exploiting the children of the third-world, and then paying off family, neighbors, and even local law enforcement, to "keep it on the down low." That's why the Protect Act was a breeze to pass into law.

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Lisa Zee says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:50:

Jail bait that is for sure. I never seen those places nor I want to. I was playing with dolls when I was 12!. I think this must be very poor and in need people, with no education. Pobrecitas.

"La verdadera sabiduría esta en reconocer la propia ignorancia" Socrates

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paisa29 says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:55:

no estuve segura e la edad exacta, por eso escribí que mas o menos.
igual aunque tenga 12 sigue siendo una niña inocente.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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joanseb says on Dec 6, 2007, 16:59:

En la USA, si esto huberia sido de un inmigrante que violo una niña, seria noticia internacional y otra excusa mas de los estados unidos para decir que los inmigrantes son una lacra social.
Respecto al tema, son tan descarados que se van del pais, que diran esos pinches gringos: "esa vieja aqui no nos puede tocar".

PDT: La palabra gringo es ofensiva despendiendo del contexto con que fue usada. Asi que no tomen muy a la ligera esa palabra, porque algo es seguro, cuando decimos gringos, no nos referimos a "persona que habla mal un idioma" o "extranjero".

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john_stark says on Dec 6, 2007, 20:18:

Wasn't the first time. Won't be the last. There was a Peace Corps volunteer who got busted in Costa Rica for getting some underage poontang. That's why they call it jailbait.

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capitan_centella says on Dec 6, 2007, 20:56:

Hum, al final las cosas buenas y malas, no serán ni buenas ni malas. Igual nos van a cazar por ellas. El universo sabe como hace sus cosas.

Casi siempre lo que mas lo enoja a uno (por lo menos a mi), es que uno no puede presenciar la venganza del universo. . . que es peor que la peor atrocidad que podamos imaginar.

A pesar de ello creo que el código de Hammurabi SI DEBER�A APLICAR EN ESTOS CASOS. Castrar a ese HP, sería poquito. Cómo hay gringos malosos, también hay personas chéveres. Obviamente como pasó en esta lado del charco, el despliegue de los medios es "ligeramente" diferente. Y como Uribe le puso letrero de " SE VENDE " a colombia, pues muchas personas se están lamentando de la noticia, lo malo es que no son las personas indicadas por que al fin de cuentas no les interesa. El barullo de las ONG, la indignación natural de cualquier persona con mas de dos dedos de frente, son sencillamente irrelevantes.

Una mierda que el mundo sea así.

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

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webmanco says on Dec 7, 2007, 04:14:

"Mothers prostitute their children here in Colombia a lot younger than that. This girl was 12, they met her in a disco in Melgar. That speaks volumes to me"

is that a justification of a crime? I guess not.


To state those sententeces are paramount as saying

"Mothers in USA teach their boys that it is fine to abuse underage girls once boys are grown up"

That is a generalization, but I know you don´t care.

Life goes on.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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paisa29 says on Dec 7, 2007, 05:22:

Yo sé que hay muchos padres que utilizan a sus niños para ejercer la prostitución, tambien que los explotan trabajando y otras cosas, eso no es lo que estoy discutiendo ahora, yo se que esto existe desde hace mucho y no lo niego.

Pero no creo que este sea el caso, la madre de la niña fue hasta la embajada Americana a denunciar el caso y dice que han recibido amenazas de muerte, si esto fuera una mentira es poco probable que se hubieran atrevido a denunciarlo.

Lo que critico de la embajada es que por ejemplo si alguien tiene por casualidad el apellido ESCOBAR, ellos le niegan la visa para visitar el país o si es para residencia le hacen una investigación exhaustiva para ver tiene nexos con el narcotráfico, pero si es un ciudadano de su país quien comete el crimen simplemente lo protegen sacandolo de Colombia.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 05:58:

Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 06:08:

Oh so what...
For the past few decades, feminists (and closet puritans) have done their best to paint men as evil beasts that should be kept under lock and key whenever possible. Every friggin' day we gotta listen to some sappy story about a "sexual predator" preying on an "innocent victim". This girl may only be 12, but if she's already a prostitute, she's neither a "child" nor is she innocent. And the likelyhood that she's a 12 year old prostitute, while sad, is hardly the "Gringo's" fault. Maybe he was drunk and she lied about her age... maybe he's actually the victim in this case.
(Or maybe he actually IS into children... who knows).

One thing I know for sure is that for the vast majority of human history, girls about that age were perfectly acceptable as lovers, wives and mothers. Also about that age, the onset of puberty indicates that God / Nature considers the person suitable to "walk on the wild side".

So now just because Phyllis Schlafly and the "Mad Mothers" don't like it, otherwise decent men have to rot in jail ?

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Rob77 says on Dec 7, 2007, 06:12:

". . . pero si es un ciudadano de su país quien comete el crimen simplemente lo protegen sacandolo de Colombia."

Me fascina como gente estan pendiente cualquier oportunidad para criticar los gringos. Ni siquiera esperan averiguar sobre protocolo tipico antes de demonstrar su resentimiento contra los gringos. Me sorprende que paisa29 no los llaman el imperio! Aun sabiendo que no fueron "gringos de la embajada" paisa29 dejo el mismo titulo aqui, para instigar la gente en contra USA. Paisa29 debe cambiar su foto para una del bebe con boina roja!

Inmunidad diplomatico es es una proteccion ofrecido mutuamente entre todos los paises del mundo. Tambien se hacen acuerdos de proteccion para soldados en paises extranjeros contra juicio extranjero.

Colombia no tiene poder en este caso, mas que sacarlo del pais. Igual como personas con la misma proteccion diplomatica han cometido crimenes hasta homicidio en USA y lo unico que el gobierno de USA pudo hacer fue botarlos del pais y negar su regreso.

Anota la gran diferencia en que USA seria de los pocos paises que juzgara y castigara sus propios ciudadanos al regresar a su pais. Y soldados de USA estan sujeto a juico y castigo miltar. O creen que estaran contentos en la embajada por la mala conducta de los soldados? Son padres con hijos tambien! Ellos siguen protocolo oficial del caso, pesar de su opinion personal!

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 06:20:

Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 06:32:

In a perfect world, no-one would become a prostitute.
No-one would become a coal miner, ditch digger, street sweeper, septic system cleaner or a shoe-shine boy.
We ALL work because we have to... and who here really LOVES our jobs ?

Kat... next time you wear a T-Shirt, pants, or a pair of shoes, you should feel guilty because of all the children working in sweatshops around the world who are "forced" to make this stuff for the West to consume.

It may sound coarse, and I'm not saying it's right, but those guys were just buying what she was selling.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 07:04:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 07:41:

Joas says on Dec 7, 2007, 07:43:

I find the defensive reaction from some American citizens to this post very interesting. Not in a positive or in a negative way. As a foreigner myself (Colombian in the U.S) I can understand why one would get defensive when the actions of criminal scum lends itself to taint a group of people as a whole. But what is clear, at least for me, is that regardless of whose fault it is...the accused, the parents, the child (which is now being accused of being a prostitute by some)....there is a bigger, deep-rooted problem when the life of a young girl, of any nationality, is put into these circumstances.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 08:09:

Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 08:16:

The "bigger, deep-rooted problem" is Life on Planet Earth.

I've spent the better part of the last 10 years travelling, often to some of the poorest countries in the world (outside of Africa, which is in it's own, almost unimaginable, league). I've seen old men lying in the road begging for food, landmine victims, napalm survivers, knife-wielding scumbags and Children selling flowers, books, postcards and other services from shoe-shines to sex.

The unfortunate fact is that, most of time, you have to walk right past, without doing a damn thing to help. Often "helping" backfires anyway, like on the beaches of Cambodia, where signs ask Tourists NOT to give kids money because it encourages more to come and live/sleep on the beach.

So we hear of a guy having consensual sex with an underage girl he met in a nightclub
... who MAY have been a prostitute and MAY have had more sex than than most guys twice her age
... sorry if I don't think the guy's balls should be cut off.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 08:41:

Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 08:49:

Kat, I think you should remove all of your clothes right now... (C'mon, we know you want to)...
because you don't want to be part of the problem of child sweat-shop slave workers.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Joas says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:20:

In my opinion, she could be the queen of the underworld but the fact remains that she is only 12 years old. Pedophillia is not only legally wrong BUT more importantly it is morally wrong.

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Colombiche says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:22:

How would you guys feel if this girl was your 12 year old daughter? Would you be saying "oh well, who gives a shit".

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:25:

First - If my 12 year old daughter was hanging out in nightclubs, I would have already utterly failed as a parent.

Second - I'd kill him.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:33:

manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:38:

Holy shit, this story is revolting. First of all, to shrug it off just because many turn a blind eye in Colombia is ridiculous. It's not the rest of the world that holds the US by higer moral standards... it's the US that holds themselves in those regards!!! This is clear when they take it upon themselves to 'rid the world of evils' like Iraq. And equating French soldiers to robbing a bank, while grave, is not the same as violating the rights of a child.

So when their soldiers go having sex with 12 year old children, yeah, it's a big deal.

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droble77 says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:44:

GIB the constant whines and rants from you really are getting annoying! I mean if you're that resentful that the Colombians aren't constantly kissing your azz, bowing down in slavish gratefulness, just come back to the states, where I'm sure your greatness will be more appreciated. ;-))

America is held to a higher standard because we're the most powerful country in the world, and because we often like to remind people of that fact, or act (and talk) in ways that emphasize it. It's as simple as that. It's always been that way, and will continue to be, unless some other country takes over the position of top dog.

Going back to the girl, it comes down to the issue (and maybe you know about this more than me) that don't the soldiers and embassy workers get briefed to BE CAREFUL and don't be stupid when it comes to the local girls??? Not just the fact they have to obey U.S. law and set a professional example, but also to avoid common scams these young girls often employ, including blackmail!

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Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:57:

Yes, unless things have changed drastically since I was in the Service... Military and Diplomatic personnel get extensive briefing on professional conduct.

When stationed in a foreign country, the training is much more rigourous, due to the special sensitivity of the conduct of U.S. Military Personnel abroad. Transgressions that in the States, might barely warrant an ass-chewing, can get you court-martialed abroad. The U.S. doesn't appreciate embarrasment overseas.

(Obviously these lessons have been lost on the Abu Ghraib generation of U.S. Servicemen).

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:59:

Actually, us "euro" people have a fine grasp of geography. We just don't go ignoring information that is contradictory to our claim, which is why you are asking us to overlook Iraq. Alright then... Afghanistan. Vietnam. Chile. You pick.

It's somewhat questionable that you are more concerned about the 'bad press' that the US now deserves than the fact that US citizens under the umbrella of the US consulate had sex with a child. If this was a Canadian, we would be calling for his head, and throw his ass in jail. I would hope we'd give him all the bad press we could.

In the UK, a former chart-topper went to the Philippines and had sex with 15/17 year old girls. Guess what happened. Did Britain complain about the fact that they were receiving bad press? NO. The guy was painted as a pedophile, prosecuted, and was lambasted by the media.

So when a foreign actor goes to another country, especially in a politically charged environment, and does something that is completely illegal and a violation of human rights, if it isn't making news headlines, one must ask the question: "why not?"

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Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:08:

The U.S. Invasion of Afghanistan aftet 9-11 was justified... maybe Saudi Arabia or Pakistan would have been better choices, but the U.S. doesn't need to apologize to anybody for going into Afghanistan.

Vietnam was a mistake (which the U.S. has admitted to repeatedly since 1975),
but don't forget, the French were in the area for 100 years helping set the stage for the Vietnam War.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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droble77 says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:08:

manINred: the answer to your question is that the American people can only keep track of one or two foreign countries at the same time. :0))

If this story had occured in Iraq or Afghanistan, believe me, it would get play. Colombia just doensn't get a lot of media play because the internal conflicts and the issues are just too damn complex! ;)

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webmanco says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:09:

had the men being Japanese, Italians, Ecuadorians even from Marte or Jupiter, they will get the same press. Only people who feel victimized get their panties in a bunch.

i wonder what is the most gratefull country in the world, because Colombia does not owe a dime.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Colombiche says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:10:

"First - If my 12 year old daughter was hanging out in nightclubs, I would have already utterly failed as a parent.

Second - I'd kill him."

So what changes here is the fact that the girl in question has no relation to you. It's human nature to value those who are in close proximity to us.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:11:

Of Course

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Colombiche says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:19:

I could care less if two adults want to exchange money for sex. In this story, however, there were two people: a child and an adult.

Regardless of whether the child was dressed suggestively or tried to seduce the adult, it is the adult who was responsible for putting a stop to this situation. He should have known better.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:23:

I wasn't arguing which invasion was or was not justified (I agree Afghanistan was). My point is that you can't go about making moral claims on a global level and then not hold yourself to a higher moral standard. That aside, it should make headlines anywhere.

Droble, I agree, it is hard to make a big deal of something with so much going on! I was just perplexed that some people would rather paint these 12 year old sex-fiends as victims of the media, rather than focus on the disgrace of the acts themselves.

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webmanco says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:24:

Money talks (most of the times) but you don´t do to other kids harm or anything you don´t wanna done to your own kids.

First it was Farc invented propaganda, now is the Colombian press to blame.

Colombia does not owe a dime.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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ixent (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:27:

webmanco says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:29:

Iraq needs to be gratefull as well. jeje

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Colombiche says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:30:

"My point is that you can't go about making moral claims on a global level and then not hold yourself to a higher moral standard." -- ManinRed

Well said!!!!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:31:

I am flabbergasted by this "blame the victim" mentality.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Simon says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:38:

These perverted gringo rapists who did this should be hung, drawn, and quartered!!!!

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"------Optimus Prime

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Simon says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:45:

Of course, but you won't see us saying that our guys should be let off because we saved the universe during WWII!

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"------Optimus Prime

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:48:

Despite what you would like to believe, I have no axe to grind with the US. The fact that you somehow perceive my point to be "the US gets away with everything" means that you either don't understand what I am writing, or just refuse to argue the relevant points with me. Where did I ever say "blame the US for these two guys"? I didn't. I was just calling you on defending them from bad press.

I am comparing the case in Britain because it is relevant. Oh, and guess what, the British dude painted himself in favourable circumstances... "thought they were 18, didn't know, etc..." but guess what... that's what criminals do... they paint themselves in favourable circumstances. 17 is one thing, 12 is another. Why should I give them the benefit of the doubt?

When personnel from an embassy have sex with 12 year old children, then the nation that the embassy represents will look bad. That much is obvious. The nation should do everything to bring the personnel to justice, not somehow spin this off as a victimization exacerbated by the media. Do I think the actions of these individuals represents the US in any way? No. Do I now suddenly think all US citizens are pedophiles? No. Only someone who is insecure would take that from what I have written.

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:49:

thanks colombiche :)

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Simon says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:49:

"who said that?"

Sometimes that's the attitude I perceive from you guys on here, from this and other similar situations.

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"------Optimus Prime

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:55:

I meant the US embassy

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 10:57:

But the fact that the US embassy represents the US as a nation means that logically the US will receive some bad press. This is only natural. Britain received bad press. Nations must own up to what their representatives do on foreign soil.

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 11:04:

Yes, they do. If Canada sent troops to Afghanistan and some started raping women, Canada would look bad. They would look a lot worse when the Canadian government started saying "no, in Afghanistan we're just victims of bad press, and since everyone else rapes women, you know, it's not so bad". Canada would look a lot better if they took the troops and threw them in jail.

The United States is represented by its government. When government representatives act in such disgraceful ways on foreign soil, the US government must be willing to swallow pride, admit wrong, and throw the people in jail.

Pedantics aside, when we are talking about the US, I think it is clear that we refer to the US government.

This is true for all nations on earth, not just the US mate, so don't take it so persnally.

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 11:10:

Well, the difference was that he was not an embassy representative. However, since he was a former chart-topper, he represented Britain to an extent, and yes, Britain received bad press.

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manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 11:11:

"You said the men got what they deserved not that England got what they deserved...."

I did actually..."Did Britain complain about the fact that they were receiving bad press"

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Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 11:38:

... "Blame the Victim" ?

I just don't always assume that the younger party is automatically the "victim".
There are plenty of teens in this world that would kill anyone here without hesitation... I should feel sorry for them ?
And there are plenty of teenage female "sexual predators" hanging around looking for lonely (horny) Tourists.
Sometimes after I've been sweet-talked into buying something from some "innocent" little kid on the street, I realize that I've just been suckered by a pro.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Albatross says on Dec 7, 2007, 11:39:

As for "innocent teens"... feel sorry for the boys:

Infantry evolved from the French word for child, reflecting the childlike compliance an officer instills in his troops.

The United Nations has estimated that 200,000 children under the age of 15 are bearing arms around the world. Most child warriors belong to rebel groups, where how much they fight depends on how desperately their services are needed. The mujahedin of Afghanistan have boys as young as nine battling Kabul. In Burma twelve-year-olds are recruited by the Karen rebels to defend their jungle territory. In El Salvador the F.M.L.N. is an equal-opportunity guerrilla group, one of the few to allow young girls to bear arms alongside the boys.

Memories of war are haunted most by the images of children fighting. Impassive Khmer Rouge kids, taught to massacre civilians, even their parents. Idi Amin's army of thugs, murderous preteens in wraparound sunglasses. Iranian ten-year-olds sent into battle as human minesweepers, with pictures of Khomeini pinned to their shirts.

Human Rights Watch's research suggests that the FARC continues to recruit children, including minors under fifteen. Children living in the Zone are particularly vulnerable. During its visit to San Vicente del Caguán, Human Rights Watch interviewed several former child soldiers and relatives of child soldiers. A representative of a group that advocates for the return of minors to their families told Human Rights Watch that she knew the names of over one hundred minors from the San Vicente municipality who belong to the FARC. Many, she said, were under fifteen years old.

None of those interviewed by Human Rights Watch said their children had been forced to join the FARC.
Rather, they said that the children had been enticed by promises of a better life.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Colombiche says on Dec 7, 2007, 13:47:

Albatross, I think calling a 12 year old girl a "sexual predator" is a stretch.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 7, 2007, 14:48:

slguy says on Dec 7, 2007, 15:18:

You know, I don't think ANYONE here is absolving the americans. pedophilia is pedophilia, no matter the circumstances.

GIB makes a VERY good point, though. Why in hell do two foreigners get run through the Colombian press rollers, for doing what is in colombia, between colombians, no big deal?

I can understand the American press getting it's knickers in a twist- but the Colombian press? Jesus H Christ. When I see an 5-part expose on "why the legal age for consensual sex should be raised above 14" - and an accompanying article on how widespread sex with children is, in Colombian society, I'll think the Colombian press is something more than hipocritical hate mongers.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 8, 2007, 01:36:

Simon, we agree on most things here. But if you really think 20 year old Colombianos should be prosecuted if they have sex with 12 through 15 year old girls, Colombia would need a whole new set of prisons.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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scotty says on Dec 9, 2007, 21:25:

WHERE WERE THE FOKIN PARENTS?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Dec 11, 2007, 00:16:

gringoinbogota, you have got to understand that there are many people in the world that are known as HATERS, and some of those haters hate America for what ever perverted reason they have.
Unfortunetely there are a certain number of these USA haters that post right here on PBH. There is nothing you can say or do to change these peoples minds. These are probably people that are anti social anyway or were abused as children or something like that, they are who they are, they blame the USA for just about everything negative that happens in the world.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Dec 11, 2007, 02:58:

they should treat these gringos the exact same way they would treat a Colombiano who does the same thing and i might add much much more often.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Monpirri says on Dec 12, 2007, 08:14:

Tinto, did you move this thread from pbh home to here? And if you did, do you mind explaining why? I do not see any rule in pbh that promotes such action.

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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scotty says on Dec 15, 2007, 00:25:

well hell lets get GIb to reading the do your own thing section. he doesnt know what he is missing

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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