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French plane lost in ocean storm

An Air France plane carrying 228 people from Brazil to France has vanished over the Atlantic after a possible lightning strike, airline officials say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm

By kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) on Jun 1, 2009, 09:08 in Off Topic.

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 1, 2009, 09:08:

bump

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 1, 2009, 09:50:

what tragedy, I hope they find some survivors!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 1, 2009, 10:52:

Yes, kat it's all over the media here too. They say that there's no hope that anybody could've survived if the plane came down in the Atlantic.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Rocco81 says on Jun 1, 2009, 15:21:

That really sucks.

Sic semper tyrannis

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billyb says on Jun 1, 2009, 15:49:

They even busted a Colombian traqueto in Mexico last month and he had some lions at his place also. The mexican narcos are also picking up on this.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 1, 2009, 15:57:

billy what? are on something? or wrong thread...

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Zoltar says on Jun 1, 2009, 18:03:

There was NO storm. I checked with a pilot friend of mine. There is a cover up going on ....

Zoltar

www.zoltarsuites.com - under construction !

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Simon says on Jun 1, 2009, 20:07:

I hope there weren't any Colombians on board!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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El Expatriado says on Jun 2, 2009, 04:13:

I hope I wasn't on Board!!!

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 07:27:

I wonder where is that plane?

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billyb says on Jun 2, 2009, 07:38:

Oops ,you are right Kat, I thought I replying to the animal thread.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 07:39:

LOL azunoman..

I just read that some debris was been spotted in the Atlantic, I think that plane crash and sank :((

My deepest sympathies to their families, it is very sad :((

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 07:41:

I have been in that type of Plane and with Air France when I flight from Bogota to Paris

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tasco66 says on Jun 2, 2009, 08:03:

"There was NO storm. I checked with a pilot friend of mine. There is a cover up going on ...."

Do you think the frogs shot their plane down?

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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kalder says on Jun 2, 2009, 08:12:

"Air France said that it had received a message from the Airbus A330 four hours into the flight to say that it was being buffeted by turbulence after flying into a storm."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5429275/Air-Fr...

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 09:11:

so true azunoman

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realgreatguy says on Jun 2, 2009, 22:06:

Very sad for all the families

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goin_south says on Jun 2, 2009, 23:20:

wtf does it matter, Simonito,...
whether the victims were colombian, american (North! of course!),
asian, african, euros???
What does it really matter?

Simon?

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Elmin says on Jun 3, 2009, 04:37:

terrible accident

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goin_south says on Jun 3, 2009, 04:51:

SIMON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 3, 2009, 05:05:

DEJE DORMIR!

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kalder says on Jun 3, 2009, 05:06:

It's a fair point. Only recently Simon was trumpeting his Catholic credentials. A faith that prides itself on being above ethnic, national and social divisions:

"We are neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor freeman, male nor female- but one in Christ" and all that.

"A piece of cheese may entrap a mouse, but a bicycle could ensnare the Imperial Chancellor."~~An Bai Kuang

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tasco66 says on Jun 3, 2009, 13:03:

...

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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Simon says on Jun 3, 2009, 15:32:

Goin South....I don't see anything odd about me referring to the welfare of Colombians on a website about Colombia!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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goin_south says on Jun 3, 2009, 16:44:

most of us that know you here, likely aren't surprised, that you ''don't see anything odd' about it.'

What if there was a colombian who was one of the Farc leaders on that plane... ,.... THEN.... would it have been OKAY for there to have been a colombian on board?

Oh. did that change your perspective?

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 03:07:

I don't think we will never find out what happened to that Plane, we are just been subject to speculations.

In my opinion that plane explode in the air and disintegrated, otherwise how can we explain pieces of debris found in 5 miles radius, to recover the black box it's going to take years, who knows where it landed and how deep under the sea it is. :(

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 11:31:

Apparently, the plane didn't NOT crash. It simply disintegrated. Why?

Two reasons:

1) Those Airbus were designed about 20 years ago. And, at the time, they could withstand current weather conditions - especially the stormy weather. But, over the past 20 years, the strength (and power) of those tropical storms has increased exponentially. Nobody could predict that. And, these airplanes designed 20 years ago are up to thse new weather conditions.

2) Although the design has remained the same, the Airbus manufacturer is replacing more and more aluminum part with carbon-based material. And lighting behaves completely differently when striking carbon-based components than when striking aluminum.

Still, I'm glad I'm not crossing the equator line when flying from Europe to Colombia!

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Morrongo says on Jun 4, 2009, 15:08:

Already Air France has information that they could conclude various possibilities from the computer information automatically relayed to head office while on route.

As stated the plane probably broke up at altitude and the black box will be almost impossible to find.

That area is notorious for the building of Cumulonimbus cloud. This cloud type is of a particular dangerous nature to aviation and is almost a certain death sentence for small plane types, but not for large commercial planes normally.

The strong up and down currents within the cloud and hail producing lightning make this cloud a particular nasty one for passenger comfort. Normally a flight level above the building cloud is usually allowed or path change to avoid the cloud type, as these clouds can build to a much higher altitude than the aircrafts. At present nothing is clear, apart from the tragic event that unfolded.

Embedded Cumulonimbus is a pilot’s worst nightmare. When this cloud type is within another so it is not recognised until you enter it. Cumulonimbus are those clouds you see like big mushrooms.

Lightening strikes to aircraft are a daily occurrence. Multiple strikes are a different matter and the effects would be more concerning to flight safety.

Simon comments ‘hope there weren't any Colombians on board!’ I find are somewhat strange and I’m not sure of the merits of such a stupid comment. Perhaps a comment of ‘I hope their were no children on board’ might of sounded less immature and xenophobic.

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billyb says on Jun 4, 2009, 18:32:

I wouldn't wish that nightmare on anyone, regardless of nationality.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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goin_south says on Jun 4, 2009, 23:03:

two reasons, Darloup?

WHAT ABOUT a Third one: They flew into the middle of a nasty, non-forgiving storm.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 5, 2009, 11:50:

What I can't understand is why more pieces or even bodies can't be found. The latest news is that some of the debris they have found were not belong to the plane. Where is that plane? what happened to it?

You expect to see lots of debris from a plane that explode in the air or crash in the ocean

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 5, 2009, 12:05:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 11:31: flag

1) Those Airbus were designed about 20 years ago. And, at the time, they could withstand current weather conditions - especially the stormy weather. But, over the past 20 years, the strength (and power) of those tropical storms has increased exponentially
------

I find this extremely hard to believe. Could you cite something that back up that statement? Or maybe you just have a different understanding of the word exponentially than what I have.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

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Zoltar says on Jun 5, 2009, 15:06:

kalder said : "Air France said that it had received a message from the Airbus A330 four hours into the flight to say that it was being buffeted by turbulence after flying into a storm."

You believe what the media tells you??? How did they know?? Did they checked?? Media are not journalist , they are "repeaters" they repeat what its been told them to say. Plain and simple.

Zoltar

www.zoltarsuites.com - under construction !

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Morrongo says on Jun 5, 2009, 16:30:

Nay and trice nay.

I personally would not believe all that the media tells me. In fact ,if the media told me a space craft landed from the planet zizzyplop and planted their seeds in daffodils for a mutated plant invasion , I would be slightly skeptical.

On the other hand, if the Media reported that the Air France 447 was experiencing turbulence, this however would not be a surprise, as the plane was flying in Cumulonimbus cloud conditions, from the Met reports of the time.

On can gleam from this info that the media report is more than a possibility.

Before they filed their flight plan, they would of known of the present weather conditions and expected conditions of their flight path.

Not enough info at present and still a mystery. Still too many possibilities of the cause.

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goin_south says on Jun 5, 2009, 21:24:

last I heard, Brazil was saying the parts that have been found were not even part of that plane, and 'it could have been due to terroristas'.

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tasco66 says on Jun 6, 2009, 05:10:

The reason for the crash?

The Euro Airbus is just a flying piece of junk:

"Data from Air France flight 447's automatic ACARS message indicates the pilots may not have had access to the correct speed information during the final minutes of the flight.

The list of fault messages sent to Air France's operations headquarters in Paris includes a sequence of notes that hints at the three Air Data Inertial Reference Unit (ADIRU) computers to show diverging information. ADIRU compiles data delivered by the pitot tubes and process it to the aircraft's other computers."

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&... Data Suggests Faulty Speed Data

"AF447 flown at wrong speed through turbulence prior to in-flight breakup according to Le Monde
June 4, 2009 – 9:58 pm, by Ben Sandilands

Le Monde is reporting that AF447 was flown at the wrong speed through turbulence from the moment problems arose with its flight control systems and until it broke apart in flight.

It also says Airbus is about to issue an advisory to all A330 operators to manually maintain recommended speeds when flying through adverse conditions. This presumably means the minimum manoeuvring speed although it doesn’t use that term.

the now widely reported versions of the automated service messages that have been leaked to the media by sources in Air France imply that the pilots may no longer have been getting correct airspeed data because of problems with external sensors"

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/06/04/af447-flown-at-wron...

"Airbus plans to replace faulty speed monitors

PARIS (AFP) — Airbus has a plan to replace speed monitors in its A330 planes following numerous breakdowns, investigators said Saturday, five days after an Air France jet crashed into the Atlantic."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hZ_wbn-UK6L06qkqBpL...

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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tasco66 says on Jun 6, 2009, 09:45:

Euro Airbus trying to spin blame on “a storm hit the plane with such strength that was unpredictable 20 years ago when the plane was designed” ain’t gonna fly with nobody…

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 6, 2009, 09:50:

I don't know really so far the only thing we can do is speculate

One of the passengers who die in the accident was a British schoolboy, he was visiting his parents in Rio de Janeiro, he was boarding here in the UK. He used to live with his parents in Colombia about two years ago, during that time he was a pupil of the colegio Gran Bretaña in Bogota, No wonder i saw in the news and news papers a pict of him wearing the Colombian sombreo vueltioa.

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billyb says on Jun 6, 2009, 20:03:

Looks like they found a couple of bodies from the flight, a briefcase and laptop also.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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quantum says on Jun 7, 2009, 13:00:

I read somewhere about a bomb threat being delivered several daze before the departure of this flight. The way its shaping up, with only a few bodies and parts being found leads one to believe that the plane was blown into 10.000 pieces too small to find. Curious that the conventional media has not even mentioned it. Maybe that possibility needs to be followed up. Dunno! All guesswork..........que trajedia! Could be any one of us Simon..........

quantum

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tasco66 says on Jun 8, 2009, 11:23:

Air France Union Demands A330 Upgrades Before Flights

June 8 (Bloomberg) -- An Air France labor union called on pilots to refuse to fly Airbus SAS A330s and A340s until the airline replaces speed sensors after investigators said the equipment probably played a role in a June 1 plane crash.

The Alter union, which represents 12 percent of the Paris- based carrier’s pilots, wants Air France to replace at least two of the three probes on each plane, Francois Hamant, a spokesman at the labor group, said in a phone interview.

“We made this decision following our reading of the technical messages” sent automatically by the Air France A330 that went down into the Atlantic Ocean a week ago, Hamant said. “Air France communicated to pilots that it accelerated the program to replace these probes. I’m not a technical expert but it makes us fear that this is a very serious matter.”

Unreliable data from speed sensors may have triggered a chain of events leading to the crash of Air France Flight 447 that killed 228 people, France’s chief crash investigator said. Brigitte Barrand, a spokeswoman at the airline, declined to comment on the union’s demands. The carrier has been changing the probes, made by Thales SA, on single-aisle Airbus A320s since late 2007 and on twin-aisle A330s and A340s since May.

Air France pilots are represented by a half-dozen unions, with the largest, SNPL-ALPA, claiming 50 percent of them as members. SNPL-ALPA hasn’t made any recommendation yet, a spokesman said.

Salvage Work

Salvage teams from the French and Brazilian navies have recovered 16 bodies from the region of the Atlantic where military planes and ships are searching for the wreckage, the Brazilian armed forces said today. “Hundreds” of pieces of debris have been found, it said.

The U.S. Navy is sending equipment and personnel to help search for the aircraft’s flight-data recorders, known as black boxes, and two French mini-submarines are scheduled to arrive in the area by about June 12.

US Airways Group Inc., the smallest U.S. full-fare carrier, and Aer Lingus Group Plc, Ireland’s second-biggest carrier, said they’re replacing speed sensors on their A330s. Aer Lingus already had a program of installing upgraded probes in its A320s-series aircraft.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8dY0m8FTZkI

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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realgreatguy says on Jun 8, 2009, 21:11:

24 bodies recovered so far, less than 10%....there were 12 planes that flew through the storm with no problems about the same time as the Air France plane...faulty air speed sensor cause all this tragedy, so upsetting :-(

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quantum says on Jun 9, 2009, 10:10:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/key-figures-in-global-battle-against-illeg... Check this article out. It all starts to make more sense. Or am I just paranoid?

quantum

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tasco66 says on Jun 9, 2009, 12:15:

Air France to replace speed sensors

PARIS (Reuters) – Air France has said all its flights using long-haul Airbus jets will be equipped immediately with new speed sensors after last week's disaster over the Atlantic, a pilots' union said on Tuesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090609/ts_nm/us_france_plane_93

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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tasco66 says on Jun 9, 2009, 12:38:

It’s just a shame Air France had to wait for a fatal crash to get these sensors replaced

that's one of the reasons I avoid flying these Euro airlines

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 9, 2009, 15:52:

tasco666 from each airplane crash, the air accident Investigators makes some improvements to the planes and update the pilots.

How many airlines have to wait for a fatal crash to improve their safety, I can name you one in particular who had to hold most of her fleet last year for safety reason and that one was American Airlines, I rather fly a russian airline that American airlines again!

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 9, 2009, 15:54:

British Airway is one of the best airlines I have been flying with it also have some of the best pilots.

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tasco66 says on Jun 9, 2009, 16:07:

"I can name you one in particular who had to hold most of her fleet last year for safety reason and that one was American Airlines"

Yep, but that was not related to a crash as in this case...

And yes I have to agree with you, BA is probably one of the best Euro airlines...I only had trouble with their new T5

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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Morrongo says on Jun 9, 2009, 21:12:

These sensors would only be part of the story if indeed they were faulty inflight...other factors would have to be involved.

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aztec says on Jun 10, 2009, 15:53:

More from that peace loving religion!

Terror Names Linked To Doomed Flight AF 447

Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on the Air France flight which crashed with the loss of 228 lives, it has emerged.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Terror-Names-Linked-To-Doo...

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tasco66 says on Jun 11, 2009, 06:57:

Air France plane broke up over 'number of minutes'

New evidence suggests the Air France jet which crashed into the Atlantic with 228 on-board broke up over a number of minutes, rather than in one catastrophic incident.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5504739/Air-Fr...

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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tasco66 says on Jun 11, 2009, 06:59:

Jetstar plane makes emergency landing in Guam

SYDNEY (AP) — An Airbus 330 carrying 203 people made an emergency landing in Guam on Thursday after an electrical problem sparked a small fire in the cockpit, airline officials said. It's the same type of plane that crashed last week in the Atlantic.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gXVnwNhkSpkd833jbRjx...

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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