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Dog fights, Bullfights, and Cockfights!! Whats your opinion?

So we recently saw how Michael Vick was arrested for his part in Dog Fights, we see the bullfights that ocurr in countries around the world, and now we have an incident where a baseball player from dominican republic is caught on video participating in cockfights.

Whats your opinion? is one ok and not the other?

Personally I think all 3 should be banned.

check this out: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/sports/othersports/13fight.html?page...

By MitchAlvarez on Feb 14, 2008, 16:42 in Off Topic.

goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 16:50:

oh, really? maybe we should stop slaughterin the cows for beef, too. No?
I know; the cruelty factor.
But, in this everchanging world in which we live....

'what does it mean, when one of you (colombians) tell another: YOU WERE NOT/ARE NOT. 'COLOMBIAN ENOUGH'?? jejeje..a mixture, I think, of stupidity mixed with a false sense of arrogance.. How 'colombian' do you have to be? to be 'colombian enough

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 16:51:

Utopia Cowboy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 14, 2008, 16:52:

gs u dont think killing animals to feed people is different then watching animals kill themselves for others to make money. Or how about watching a bull bleed to death as others cheer ?

im not sure man

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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houstongal says on Feb 14, 2008, 17:02:

You're right Mitch. There's something wrong about watching animals being brutally wounded or killed for entertainment purposes.

Culture is language and language is culture - Dr. Annamaria Napolitano

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msaucey says on Feb 14, 2008, 17:14:

I agree... It's barbarian... and poor animals.... I'm sure everyone has seen Amores Perros.... Wow, that was as close to watching a real dog fight, and I felt horrible, I wanted to give those poor pups a hug.... There's some thugs in my area that walk around with their pitbulls, and their leashes are big old chains... wonder why they want to make them soooo strong...

And cock fights are ridiculous, I think I read an article or something that said that some owners put blades on the cocks feet to make sure they can cause the other cock damage, or was it to rile them up... either way.... horrible....

The only difference in bullfights, is that it's not bull on bull, it's man on bull... and that too is just wrong...

What goes through people heads!.. I don't get it...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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scotty says on Feb 14, 2008, 17:15:

dont like any of it, its cruel, its not a sport, humans acting badly.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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NataliaV says on Feb 14, 2008, 18:12:

I don't agree with dog fighting. Cock fighting, I believe, is more of a cultural event. I am not saying it is right. I would never go watch any type of animal fight, but think that the baseball player should not be penalized for this. It was in his country where it is legal. Again, I'm not saying I agree with it. When I went to the Dominican I went on a "safari" into the mountains and actually held a cock that was used for fighting. It seems to be apart of their culture.

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slguy says on Feb 14, 2008, 18:58:

now now Natalia. you know better than to call that country "the Dominican". is almost as bad as writing Columbia when one talks about the country this board is about! jajajajaj

You're right, of course. Is ridiculous that there is any noise made about a baseball player being penalized for cultural things about his own country. and it IS a part of dominican culture, without a doubt....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 14, 2008, 19:54:

i dont care if its part of whatever culture. so can michael vick say that its part of his culture to participate or sponsor dog fights? it would have been ok then if michael vick did what he did out of the country where its legal?

i disagree.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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slguy says on Feb 14, 2008, 20:07:

Two completely different things, Mitch. Michael Vick clearly broke the law, repeatedly, in the same country where he was raised, and earned his living.

Nothing illegal about cockfighting in the RD. and no one claims the dominican ballplayer has been involved in cockfighting on US soil, to my knowledge.

what- we should punish colombian ballplayers for using the services of a hooker, when they're home between seasons? prostitution being legal in colombia, pero not in the US, except for Nevada. is this your position?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 14, 2008, 21:20:

you have a solid arguement.

so maybe legally it makes sense because dogfighting is illegal here but cockfighting is not in DR. i got that. the prostitution thing i understand..........but

listen i dont have all the answers...im not a legal expert. im simply stating that i think pedro martinez should pay some type of fine, do some community service and/or other stuff. i dont think its ok for him to be a high paid athlete in the us where he is a role model to many kids and he is out there showing up to this type of stuff.

if dogfighting was legal (IF!!!) and michael vick was caught out there doing this... would we have the media all over this? i think so..

i think believe it or not there are many issues with this. i think race and ethnicity are also underlying factors in the media coverage of this type of stuff.

just my 2 cents

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 21:28:

You don't think if one of the Manning boys were caught doing something like Vick was with the dogs, the press wouldn't be all over it as well? Just curious.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 22:52:

tg... you won't catch one of the manning boyz caught up in any thing of the sort.
They're of a different style... the newest mvp, before he played his first nfl game.. along with his brother, were flying plane loads of stuff into New Orleans, after Katrina. bad example.

Mitch Alvarez....

.......... quite frankly.. I got too many other things to think about, other than bullfights... and cockfights.. and dogfights. I understand the recent cases here, made against the bull fights... although still, if done right, just the ONE MAN VS. ONE BULL... perhaps an artistic thing of beauty. I guess that doesn't happen any more. Just like everything else, ... is melted down.
Rooster fights ( I hate to call them cock fights... Now, sometimes, mi colombianita has made me feel like my cock was in a fight..jjjaja!, but not with another cock!)....no se...
Dogs??? THAT'S DOWNRIGHT DISGUSTING!!

I'm basicly not a violent person, ... intense... yeah, when necessary, ... violent,... no.
Was it 'torture', the first time a caveman took two or three days to kill that animal he wanted to roast and eat? hell, I don't know. Oh?? Now we have options?? We can shoot em, or gas em....

I don't know.. what's right or wrong.. and frankly I nor any of you have to make those decisions for anyone else but your self.

Mitch, you plannin on getting in the ring anytime soon?

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:06:

Ok, so maybe the Manning boys were a bad example, but not really b/c I wasn't asking if they'd actually do something like that-- just if the media would cover it as extensively if they did. Anyway, I guess they were the first to come to mind since I'm from TN and living in MS now. Those boys seem to be dear to everyone from TN, MS, and LA. haha
Do you happen to know off the top of your head the speed limit on the Ole Miss campus? Without having to Google it? hehe. I've already given you a hint.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:12:

I'm baffled, and bedeviled, ... I think you may have even told me this once.. but, no....
again.. perplexed.
What is it, Tg??

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:13:

I've been in a bit of a bull fight with an 'insubordinant employee' today, Tg.. I wouldn't know a hint if you hit me in the head with it ;-)

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:14:

No, I never told you.

ESPN has used it as a trivia question before though.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:16:

Do you want the answer? or a hint?

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:17:

you said you already gave me a hint...
Now,.. you're asking me if I want a hint?

jajjj.. sounds a little like that employee I had to deal with today!!

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:18:

well.. let's have the hint... damn, I was wearing myself out looking in the post just above for.......the hint

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:18:

The hint that I gave you earlier was by mentioning the name "Manning".

So my next hint will be "Archie Manning".

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:31:

I'm lost in space on this one, tg.
and, haven't watced much espn for about 9 years, believe it!

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:36:

Okay, the speed limit is 18mph everywhere on campus. It is even posted. Very odd looking at first. And in case you are really brain dead tonight, that was Archie's jersey number. teehehe

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:39:

My son's number was 22.
I can't remember any more.. jajjj!
18.. that's slow.
But, then.. it is in.. 'the deep... south'

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:40:

And on a college campus with pedestrians. I think some college campuses even have areas that are 15 mph.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:40:

and, not the south where goin_south....
never mind... I need one of those drinks, tonight!

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:41:

tg but do you agree with bullfights, cockfights, and dog fights?

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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travelingirl says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:43:

In all honesty, I don't really have much of an opinion on them and am therefore not passionate about it. Maybe I've just never sat down and really thought about it. I might think differently if I'd actually gone to one of those events or even seen them on tv.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:43:

going south:

am i getting into the ring? with who? i can street fight but not in a ring. i dont think i could hang in there for more then one or two rounds.

but did you say that the mentioned activities can be artistic things of beauty? or did i misread that? i hope so.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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goin_south says on Feb 14, 2008, 23:46:

you and one bull, Mitch??
hjajja, yeah, I'm thinking the bulls makin a mincemeat pie outta you! jaj

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 15, 2008, 00:25:

lol... i meant in ring as a boxer with another man. why would i try to go against an animal? much less a bull?

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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kalder says on Feb 15, 2008, 10:34:

a) Bloody horrible.

b) Not sporting. And art? In my bollocks.

c) Who cares? It's just chickens.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 12:13:

as usual, kalder nails it.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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El Polo says on Feb 15, 2008, 12:49:

Why is game hunting legal and dog fighting illegal? both are grotesque and IMO bullfighting is cowardly.

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rocinante says on Feb 15, 2008, 13:19:

"we should punish colombian ballplayers for using the services of a hooker, when they're home between seasons? prostitution being legal in colombia" SLGUY

Prostutution is ILLEGAL in Colombia. But your point is good. The laws of the country you are in prevail.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on Feb 15, 2008, 13:39:

Saucey. Amores Perros is perhaps one of the greatest movies ever - in my top 5 all time favs. Alejandro González Iniarritu is a gifted genius.

No animales were hurt making the film. Know that beforehand and put up with the dog fight scenes. The only thing hurt during that movie was my ears with all that shot Mexican slang. The whole cast was magnificent and the writing and the way it was shot was superb. That Susana has this beautifull innocence.

Amores Perros is not something you just plop down and the couch and watch. I've been putting it off but tonight might just be the night. Thanks for reminding me.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 13:55:

"Why is game hunting legal and dog fighting illegal?"

huge differences. most hunters won't take a shot that doesn't end the game's life quickly. it's a point of pride for hunters. most hunted game also winds up on the dinner table.

dog fighting? none of the above. merely blood lust.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Medellin Traveler says on Feb 17, 2008, 12:17:

I say, why not forget about the animals for now and focus our attention on governments who kill innocent PEOPLE in the name of Allah, Democracy, and FREEDOM!

It sicken's me when I see someone spoil their stupid dog, yet has no problem using racial slurs to address foreigners in the US.

The bullifights in Medellin bored me to death, but who cares when innocent people are being slaughtered everyday.

La cuidad de la primavera, estoy feliz porque te vuelvo a ver - www.medellintraveler.com

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 12:38:

good point, MT.
by the same token...
I have close friends... who have no kids... only dogs ....
and, I think they're a bit sick when they say "I understand; it's the same with my animals"

BULLSHIT! IT AIN'T THE SAME. NOTHING ABOUT IT IS THE SAME.

I was out visiting some 'coonass' friends, in the country around here last night...
and, the man of the home was saying about how they are trying to stop them from the cockfighting thing here.. and you can't stop it.. it goes underground ... JUS LIKE THE COCAINE... YOU Pr*&$cks. And, he proceeded to explain.. mostly mexicans filtering into those 'cockfighting rings' now... on the I-10 corridor through the south... and what he had to say was this:

in those places where we go... there is integrity, man-to-man; if your rooster loses... you freakin go pay up. ain't no one in there, who is going to scoot or skadaddle, without paying.. what he was saying was that, it was a place of integrity,.. man-to-man. You don't dare try to bamboozle some one in there. there's no... politicking... no avoidin your debt.. no hidin.. no games... LIKE DOMINATES... WHAT MOST HERE WOULD CALL : THE REAL WORLD. no lack of integrity. no matter, who you are, where you're from.

This is their.... real world.
It's just a freakin chicken.

Violence is the Price of Freedom, right Rubito???

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 17, 2008, 14:31:

good point mt.

but one wrong doesnt make the other any better.

but i understand your point of view.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:21:

1 million plus people slaughtered in South Africa in the past year, and we are arguing about this. I love pets, and don't like cruelty towards any of God's creatures, but I would really like to have my favorite NFL team's quarterback back on the field.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:34:

In the past year, Dawg? I know the murder rate in South Africa is high, but it isn't anywhere near one million. Or maybe I missed a joke or sarcasm?

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:36:

he said south africa,
not south carolina. ;-)

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:37:

lol

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:43:

don't know the number TG, I know they have had some years where it approached that. In South Carolina, we have had many dog and chicken fights, but I don't have the murder rates. Does the nickname Gamecocks mean anything to you guys? no bullfights here so far this past year

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:44:

South Africa has about 20,000 murders per year, give or take.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:46:

ok ok ok, I meant friggin Africa, overall. I think 1 mill in maybe 2-3 years is not out of line. I will try to edit better. jeez

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:47:

LOL
Sorry, I've always been the fact/grammar Nazi. But don't worry, even I make mistakes, especially spelling. ;)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:50:

finally, I find a peaceful place, with no grades, no promotions, no social class differences, unconditional love maybe?. but no, here we have the hall monitor on me yet again.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:51:

sorry tg, couldn't resist

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:54:

Dawg, she hardly ever makes mistakes, matter of fact, she was RAZOR SHARP...
friday night ;-)

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:57:

plus she is beautiful. sigh...

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:00:

Tg, are those 'CROCS' on your feet, in that picture in Colombia?
jus curious...
Do they have CROCS in Colombia?
Now, there's an idea Dawg.

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:01:

croc imports? we gotta figure out a way of living there, Goin S.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:10:

There is no way I'd EVER wear a pair of CROCS. So no, those are NOT Crocs. haha

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:11:

import idea #1, shot down GS. next?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:12:

how about oversized sunglasses? any market for that?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:13:

Razor sharp on Friday night? What was Friday night? I don't even remember.

Hall monitor? Please! Ok, maybe red pen toting monitor though.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:14:

Yes, I was wearing my Celebrity Oversized Sunglasses pretty much the entire time I was in Colombia... even on top of my horse in the country. haha

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:15:

...but, not many girlz can wear OVER SIZED SUNGLASSES... that welll :- ))

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:16:

friday night?
Convenient Forgetfulness?
jajajjj!

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:16:

Girlz? You've been hanging out with your daughter too much. ;) LOL

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:17:

I like 'em, or would have known better than to have mentioned 'em as an import idea. They ar e big though TG. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:21:

Yes, bug eyes, that's me. ;)
I'm very particular about my sunglasses though. They can only barely touch the side of my face or otherwise it will feel like they are squeezing my head if worn for longer than 2 minutes. Plus, I have to be able to blink without my eyelashes touching the lens. And this pair just so happened to pass both tests. Crazy, I know.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:22:

and here I was thinking you might be high maintenance. what was I thinkin? jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:23:

What you can't tell in this picture is that I hadn't had a shower or washed my hair in X days and had horse poo all over my pants. Am I still high maintenance? :-D

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:24:

we learn something new every day...
0oooops.
Ladies???
Now, tg.. in about 20 more years, you're gonna want me to start callin you 'girl' again ;-)

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:24:

But I still had on my lipstick. I don't travel ANYWHERE without it. hehe

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:26:

No, I don't mind being called "girl"! I was referring to the "z" at the end. hehe It was cute.
I already am a little upset that people at WalMart or any other store call me "ma'am" instead of "miss" nowadays. Well, sometimes the older people will still call me "miss" and that makes me feel better. :)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:26:

I think she's beautiful, cow poop and all GS, but I am a bit of an idealist romantic.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:28:

horse

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:28:

yer killin me, Dawg!

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:34:

horse, cow, pig whatever.
I knew you would appreciate the dawg appreciatin the gal GS. I appreciate beauty wherever I find it, not just down south, not to use your name in vain or anything.
Dan don't be ticked at me. I am not after her or anything, just appreciating beauty.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:36:

Don't worry, Dan has not staked his claim on me!
You can "appreciate" all you want. ;)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:37:

Is that all we have to do, just stake a claim and you're ours? I must have always complicated these matters.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:39:

See, it doesn't have to be so complicated afterall!

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:40:

Btw, did you happen to check out the emerald store I mentioned on your trip?

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:42:

uhhh.no sorry tg. maybe next time. I still have your info on that. Is that what it will now take? I thought I just could stake a claim, and you would be my caveman girl.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:44:

killin me, dawg!

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:44:

Hmmm... if you'd rather your girl follow you back to the cave instead of you having to pull her by her hair... jewelry, flowers, cards etc. could help. ;)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:44:

Ok, how is the dawg killin' the duck?

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:45:

I got it GS, ok?
I prefer pulling her by the hair, if you're ok with that tg?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:47:

Fine. But if you want anything else, I suggest you follow some of my recommendations.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:48:

I'm a senstive guy and all, but if pullin ya back to the cave is ok with you, I am good with dat. this thread is turning into a dog and cat fight.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:48:

I kinda like to pull her by the hair... OF COURSE ONLY.. if that is HER PREFERENCE too.
hell.. she knows she'll get the flowers & godiva!

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:50:

I don't need no stinkin jewelry cards flowers. I am cave man. I take her by hair.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:51:

Exactly. Hair pulling is okay as long as the jewelry and flowers are awaiting my entry inside the cave.
(I just know tomorrow morning people are going to read this and accuse me of being materialistic. Whateva. haha)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:51:

there'll be feathers flying too, if I stick around..
I better hit de hay!
night all.

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:51:

If I want anything else, hmmm... I am now listenin. I can play a sweet tune or two, how can I now reinvent myself as the sensitive caring listenin guy?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:52:

Ah, Dawg just takes what he wants. Sexxxay.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:52:

jewelry and flowers ... inside a cave?
how 'bout Rocks and Dandelions?

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:53:

n'r mind.
like I said.
good
night.

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:53:

Well, if you picked the dandelions yourself for the specific purpose of wooing me... then okay.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:54:

I will NEVER accuse you of bein hi maintenance ;-)

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:55:

G'night, GS!
I should get to bed too. I'm already going to be scolded tomorrow for staying up this late.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:55:

ya drivin me crazy tg. make the weddin plans. I'll show up for the hook up.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:55:

That's what I should have been.. a wedding planner instead of a professional student.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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christobeldawg says on Feb 17, 2008, 22:59:

billyb where are ya man. I need a smooth bail out

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Plato says on Feb 18, 2008, 06:25:

Natalia V and Slyguy, I agree with both of you. Too much PC crap coming from the US.

Don't agree with the dog fights though.

I understand eating dog and monkey are a delicacy in China.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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slguy says on Feb 18, 2008, 07:26:

Plato! where you at, man? we miss you!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Plato says on Feb 18, 2008, 10:07:

Slguy, I left a post on your profile. Cheers mate!

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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