"DAY OR RECKONING: HOW HUBRIS, IDEOLOGY AND GREED ARE TEARING AMERICA APART."

miamimike says on Nov 25, 2007, 19:56:

Gator, heard about Pat B's Book! While I don't agree with him on various issues, He hits the nail on the head on several issues above, not to mention, we are accumulating Debt at the rate of approx 2 Billion weekly due to Iraq,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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slguy says on Nov 25, 2007, 19:57:

Plus, Hillary could be elected! ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Medellin Traveler says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:10:

How freakin' sad, the end of the US as you know it. It was a nice run while it lasted, this country is, and has, been going to shit for a very long time now!!

I blame the American people for this disaster!!!

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:14:

you can thank all the libs for pushing this nation to its edge. thank you Rosie Odonnel, Mike Moore, the Clintons, 2/3 rd's of the Hollywood crowd, green peace, ACLU, NAACP, PETA, MSNBC, NEW YORK TIMES, all the greedy people, the greedy corporations, not to mention all the outside influences such as mexico and all the other USA haters and losers around the world.

me thinks when China or the muslims take over people all over the world will wish they had the good old USA back in the drivers seat.

if you think things are bad now...ha! just wait until Hilary gets into office.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Simon says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:18:

"* European-Americans, 89% of the nation when JFK took the oath, are now 66% and sinking. Before 2050, America is a Third World nation"


So according to Buchanan, not having a white majority is tantamount to being Third World. Gee, I wonder if Japan is considered 'Third world'.

That guy is such a fokin racist!!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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slguy says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:24:

I'll say the same thing about the US that I said about Venezuela - countries tend to get the governments they deserve.

US voter turnout is embarassingly low. Apathy and cynicism pervade the American political landscape.

But worst of all is the the lack of inspirational leadership - both currently at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and in the electable candidates for that address.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Gator says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:27:

Simon. put a rubber band around you head and snap out of it and never worry about the facts. Facts can be uncomfortable, and of course, anything that makes anyone uncomfortable is a violation of our constitutional rights. The only fact that matters is the foundational fact that you can only feel what is right, so if a fact happens to contradict your feelings, obviously that fact must be wrong. Sentio, ergo rectum.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Medellin Traveler says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:37:

Disagree all you want, blame anyone you want, point fingers, call people names, but in the end...

AMERICA AS WE KNOW IT IS FUCKED!!

THER IS NO ONE AVAILABLE TO HELP US OUT OF THIS MESS!!!

AGAIN, BLAME THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:50:

Blame Iraq.
It's sorta like: PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE.
Two billion $ a week, now....for what? 3 1/2 years?

Where do we go from here?

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:54:

AMERICA AS WE KNEW IT IS FUCKED!! (MT)

You know... the sad part about it, is... many of the american youth (late teens) of today have little clue what they're up against, for the next 40 years, as to prospects of having a successful career here. and, it's a little hard to know how and where to steer them.

Where do we go from here?

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nine inch nails says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:55:

I scared. Tengo miedo.

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 20:55:

I know; blame Iraq (blame GW)

Where do we go from here?

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:04:

well MT alot of the problems in America are indeed American caused but not all, you have to give some credit to the people around the world who have done their very best to destroy this country from its inception either financially or through war or threats or just plain verbal attacks.Many countries throughout history have been envious of this country and instead of trying to bring themselves up they would rather drag us down to their level.
Its funny how you paint this country as you say fucked but if we are fucked then what are the others?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:11:

"the world is.........a ghetto!"

Where do we go from here?

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eywed says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:15:

While we have been trying to help the world with all it's problems we have lost site of ourselves. We need to take care of our own for a bit. Quit medelling in others messes in far away lands. Ahhhhhhhhhh back to the pease of my Vallenato music. I'm not going to let you all drag me to far into all this one.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:22:

eywed, you are right we are in a lose lose position. on one hand the world bitches and moans and groans about the USA and our lead in the world, blaming us for just about everything. Then on the other hand anytime someone need help who do they call USA.

If i had my way i would let the world take care of themselves for awhile. We should regroup, come home , take care of our own country, our own people and our own problems.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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john_stark says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:23:

I disagree with his worries about Mexican immigration. Personally I hope the US does split up into various fiefdoms. Texas would make a nice fit with Northern Mexico. Montana and Alberta would get along well. New England and the Maritime provinces are a natural fit as well. Probably each of these min-states would have a more responsive and capable government than the inhabitants of the congressional zoo in DC.

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:33:

yea let the mexicans in maybe they can make the southwest US look just like mexico.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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miamimike says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:45:

In 2000 if a small % (more) of the US Voters had turned out, our Story today would be much different. No Iraq because of Non-existent WMD; no 2 Billion Dollars into debt as each week passes. Much of the $2 billion weekly is scammed and blown, the Powers to be cannot even account for where a lot of it has went!

On The Deficit, when Clinton left office, he left Bush a Nice surplus( do we all remember the National Deficit meter during Clinton's terms??) and now,,,Bush hardly vetoed One Spending Bill so Hillary to blame here also???


How can Hillary be blamed for anything? She hasn't even been Nominated yet and Obama is leading as of now,,LOL


Who was sitting in the WH when that PDB (presidental daily briefing of august 15, 2001 if I remember correctly) was received concerning Mid east Terrorists "may use Airliners as WMD" and passed off as "Old Info"???

Scotty, Since you brought up Mexican Immigartion,,,

What has Bush done to stem Illegal Immigration since he took office in 2000? What Bill has he signed into Law in his 7 years?Workplace(usa) Arrests dropped from close to 400 Clinton's last Year to 4 in 2005(last year I could find Stats for) Who is responsible for that? Who is in the WH Chair? All he (bush)wanted to do is pass a rewrite of Reagan's failed 1986 ICRA Amnesty program. Thankfully, wiser heads in Bush's own party like Jim Sensenbrenner(R-wisc), Duncan Hunter(R-Ca) put that bill down before it saw the light of Day. That would have been nice--12 Million more Illegal Aliens would now be receiving Amnesty,,,Cool

This from a Voter who voted for Nixon, Reagan(twice),,what has this GOP party evolved into? Ike Eisenhower must be turning over in his Grave about now,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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eywed says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:50:

I say we quickly finish up in iraq and bring our fine men and womn home to defend our Great nation. No we should not give up one part of our Great country. Our fore fathers faught hard for this land and we should never forget that. Seal the borders and enforce a fair imagration policy. Reward those who came here the right way and ask the ones who did not to leave.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 22:19:

let the mexicans in maybe they can make the southwest US look just like mexico. (scotty)

Hey scotty, where do you live? Have you not been to Texas?
IT ALREADY DOES! (Look like Mexico....and better!)

Where do we go from here?

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 22:39:

I have been to Texas many times, and New mexico and Arizona and southern Calif. they all look better than mexico

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 22:42:

so Gator you are saying that America is going to hell and the answer is to run away to Colombia? isnt that kinda like going from the frying pan into the fire?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 22:50:

no scotty. what he's saying is you better get a couple more jobs, work like helll for the next 6 or 7 years, save and LOOK FOR A NEW PLACE TO STAY.

I was jus there again last week, and believe me (and Arturo!) :
LOCOMBIA ES LOOOOOKEEEEEEN GOOOOOOOOOD,.....MAN!

Where do we go from here?

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eywed says on Nov 25, 2007, 22:55:

Well I guess they say if you cant beat them join them.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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scotty says on Nov 25, 2007, 23:09:

i dont know the US certainly has its problems but im not sure if Colombia is the answer, after all Colombia has its share of problems to.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 23:14:

hey scotty.... ahem; read between the lines ;-)

Where do we go from here?

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scotty says on Nov 26, 2007, 00:13:

oh, between the lines, ok got ya.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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kalder says on Nov 26, 2007, 00:53:

Frightening reading.

And a similar process is happening to us.

"me thinks when China or the muslims take over people all over the world will wish they had the good old USA back in the drivers seat"...methinks too scotty.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 26, 2007, 06:08:

Miamimike - The balanced budget was a one-time, very short lived thing that had very little to do with Clinton and almost everything to do with massive amounts of taxes paid on stock and stock option gains. When the dot com and telecom markets tumbled, the US budget immediately went back into the red and California suffered most of all. While a temporarily balanced budget was a nice thing, Clinton did nothing meaningful about the far, far worse national deficit.

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Man Tequila says on Nov 26, 2007, 08:24:

Buchanan is well known for his sane outlook and balanced views... or not...

I don't disagree with the books title, but the case seems overblown. Course I have not read the book, but of the points Gator quotes:

The U.S. Army is breaking and is too small to meet America’s global commitments.
-- Not every world problem "requires an American solution". This merely means America's global commitments need a more balanced and non-partisan re-evaluation.

The dollar has sunk to historic lows and is being abandoned by foreign governments.
-- Likely temporary, most economists believe the US will avoid recession, barely.

U.S. manufacturing is being hollowed out.
-- By US companies...

The greatest invasion in history, from the Third World, is swamping the ethno-cultural core of the country, leading to Balkanization and the loss of the Southwest to Mexico.
-- Immigration laws need a serious re-evaluation. What was Buchanan's position on Bush's proposal?

The culture is collapsing and the nation is being deconstructed along the lines of race and class.
-- Is this new?

A fiscal crisis looms as the unfunded mandates of Social Security and Medicare remain unaddressed.
-- So address them. Other countries have. They can be addressed.

Specifically, Buchanan contends:

• Pax Americana, the era of U.S. global dominance, is over. A struggle for global hegemony has begun among the United States, China, a resurgent Russia and radical Islam
-- There is a difference between Pax and global economic dominance, which is likely to continue.

• Bush’s invasion of Iraq was a product of hubris and of ideology, a secular religion of “democratism,��? to which Bush was converted in the days following 9/11
-- I agree with the first part. I don't think Bush cared much about democracy in Iraq, but I do think he followed the oil money andsaw a chance for popularity and revenge.

• Torn asunder by a culture war, America has now begun to break down along class, ethnic and racial lines.
-- This culture war talk confuses me, and takes away from the real problems Buchanan identifies.

• The greatest threat to U.S. sovereignty and independence is the scheme of a global elite to erase America’s borders and merge the USA, Mexico and Canada into a North American Union.
-- No evidence at all this is happening, fearmongering talk. I must have given him too much medicine in his Canadian Cialis prescription I am using to take over the US.

• Free trade is shipping jobs, factories and technology to China and plunging America into permanent dependency and unpayable debt. One of every six U.S. manufacturing jobs vanished under Bush
-- Free trade is not the cause US companies manufacture in China, low wages are.

• “Sovereign Wealth Funds,��? controlled by foreign regimes and stuffed with trillions of dollars from U.S. trade deficits, are buying up strategic corporate assets vital to America’s security
-- Why is Bush allowing sensitive companies to be sold, then?

• As U.S. wages are stagnant, corporate CEOs are raking in rising pay and benefits 400 to 500 times that of their workers
-- This is appalling, but not new nor that relevant.

• The Third World invasion through Mexico is a graver threat to our survival as one nation than anything happening in Afghanistan or Iraq
-- Debatable, but if so needs to be addressed, which Bush tried to do but failed in part due to hawks like Buchanan from his own party.

* European-Americans, 89% of the nation when JFK took the oath, are now 66% and sinking. Before 2050, America is a Third World nation

• By 2060, America will add 167 million people and 105 million immigrants will be here, triple the 37 million today.

• Hispanics will be over 100 million in 2050 and concentrated in a Southwest most Mexicans believe belongs to them."

-- Other countries have changed from mainly European to other types of immigration without imploding. Buchanan has his views regarding race, but these issues have not been addressed in a systematic way. That hardly means they won't until 2050.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 26, 2007, 08:31:

"Pitchfork" Pat Buchanan usually comes off as a kook. Individually, a lot of the points are valid, but every country has a "list" that looks apocalyptic if you assume nothing will be done about any of the items.

Does he need the money? Maybe he has an expensive coke habit? He's almost 70 years old and he's writing the same books he's always written, pounding on the same tables and yapping on the same talk shows.

* State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America (August 22, 2006) ISBN 0-312-36003-7
* Where the Right Went Wrong: How Neoconservatives Subverted the Reagan Revolution and Hijacked the Bush Presidency (2004) ISBN 0-312-34115-6
* The Death of the West: How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil Our Country and Civilization (2002) ISBN 0-312-28548-5
* A Republic, Not an Empire: Reclaiming America's Destiny (1999) ISBN 0-89526-272-X
* The Great Betrayal: How American Sovereignty and Social Justice Are Being Sacrificed to the Gods of the Global Economy (1998) ISBN 0-316-11518-5
* Right from the Beginning (1988) ISBN 0-316-11408-1
* Conservative Votes, Liberal Victories: Why the Right Has Failed (1975) ISBN 0-8129-0582-2
* The New Majority: President Nixon at Mid-Passage (1973)

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podborski says on Nov 26, 2007, 08:52:

the more I hear about the end of the USA, the more I want to invest there...we must be very close to the bottom

I think Buchanan knows less about economics than any first year student.

And I do suspect he's a racist as well, although I'm not sure. However I do think immigration policies are idiotic in north america. I'd be in favour of letting more people in, but fewer criminals and more plumbers, bricklayers and doctors.

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Man Tequila says on Nov 26, 2007, 09:05:

But what about architects?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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podborski says on Nov 26, 2007, 09:23:

I think william s meant to say: "first we should kill all the architects",

Doctors are OK 'cause we need them, and they seem quite rational in comparison to most professionals. However, half the time they are off galivanting around the world, so they must be over paid. I'd like to see them have a little friendly competition from china or india though (just a for instance) : )

Plumbers too, must be a huge shortage, what do they charge? 90 bucks an hour? I swear if I had any kids I'd make them study a trade.

Some people joke that they want enough kids to make a soccer team. Me, I'd have a construction crew: plumber, electrician, carpenter, bricklayer, and at least 2 roofers in case one goes on strike or comes across a better family situation.

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morphus says on Nov 26, 2007, 10:49:

We still have the bombs. Why let them go to waste when we can exterminate half the planet and take over? Our government is'nt looking out for us. America could be very rich if we had the right leadership.

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scotty says on Nov 26, 2007, 12:02:

the US has had its problems in the past and has always made a come back, remember gas lines in the 70's, stock market crash in the 20's, depression and dust bowel in the 20's and 30's, war with Germany, war with japan, the whole messy vietnam thing, this country has been beaten down many times but has always come back.

things are bad but not that bad, people are still working, its just a matter of time until the housing industry bounces back, things arent peachy like they used to be but we will be ok. Even at our worse situation we are better off than most countries around the world.

i will tell you one thing that really pisses me off i just heard that Starbucks is raising the price of my favorite drink the Iced Mocha.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Nov 26, 2007, 15:19:

really morph,
one atomic bomb on iraq,
and we could have silenced the world and saved a ton of $$

Where do we go from here?

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goin_south says on Nov 26, 2007, 15:20:

simple solutions to save the world

Where do we go from here?

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morphus says on Nov 26, 2007, 16:54:

Yes, its really strange. One little country in the Americas that can exterminate the whole world. Why?

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kalder says on Nov 27, 2007, 00:52:

And I gather Morphus is not alone in his sentiments.

Or at least wasn't.

I have a brother who was an Air Force cadet. At one lecture, at the local USAF base, a senior US airman told the rosy-cheeked hopefuls not to worry about the Commies as 'any trouble outta them and they're all going to wind up in the CCC- the Crispy Critters Club.'

My brother claims that not a hint of irony was to be detected.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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morphus says on Nov 27, 2007, 07:18:

How about this?

1.00 USD = 0.997626 CAD

1.00 USD = 2,080.95 COP

1.00 EUR = 1.48774 USD

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podborski says on Nov 27, 2007, 09:11:

the CDN$ has already dropped 10% from the peak it very briefly reached a week ago, I am starting to look like a guru

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scotty says on Dec 4, 2007, 00:57:

morphus...why not, if not us then who?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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morphus says on Dec 4, 2007, 05:41:

Russia

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scotty says on Dec 5, 2007, 21:55:

yea Russia thats who we want to be the world power, commrade Putin ex KGB man in the drivers seat. no thanks! until something better comes along i'll stay with the USA.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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kalder says on Dec 6, 2007, 00:49:

Putin & Dobby the House-Elf

Separated at birth?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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