Colombia Peso Falls on Concern U.S. Slowdown to Hurt Exports

Waterdawg says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:18:

.. " The U.S. is Colombia's biggest trade partner, buying about 40 percent of its exports.."


For those of you who have been posting that Colombia exports are not all that much with the USA.. ...... My friends , read and learn! .. Thats 40% of ALL export commodities .. Thats a whole bunch of Jobs ! !

rocinante says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:27:

Coffe and bananas, non cyclical staples, comprise about 80% of that 40%.

Read and learn about the last US recession and see if Americans stopped drinking coffe or eating fruit.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

NotoriousGIB1K says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:30:

Sorry to vent here about this, but fucking Bush & his administration have nearly made me embarrassed to call myself an American. He has screwed the U.S. economy & our international relations. I have never voted in my life, but for the first time ever I will make my vote count so no dumb ass like him gets into office again.

Work to live. Don't live to work.

esanch36 says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:39:

so which dumb ass are you going to put into office?

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries

Waterdawg says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:42:

Make Elmo stay in the States .. ! No there is a man I could vote for !

rocinante says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:43:

Does it really matter? The US president has not run the country since the depression.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

Waterdawg says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:44:

Elmo Would Change That ! lol

NotoriousGIB1K says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:54:

I'm suffering from electile-dysfunction (The inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either party during an election year), but I will not vote for McCain because I'm under the impression he is all for home land security & keeping us in the war. I feel as if our freedoms have been eroded enough & we need to quit imposing our will on other countries & get our troops back home. Screw the patriot act.

I'm not voting for Hillary, I think 1 Clinton was enough & I get the impression she votes for what's best for her - not her people. Also, due to tensions in the Middle East - I'm not so sure having a female president in office would be the wisest choice right now.

Which leaves me w/ Obama. He's inexperienced, but charismatic - he can organize & put people on his staff that are experienced. I believe his background & charisma will give him an edge in repairing our international relations. He is all for making the government ACCOUNTABLE with his ideas of putting all legislation & decisions online & letting people voice their opinions PRIOR to something becoming law/policy. This is one of my biggest gripes - the government needs to be put in check. He plans on doubling the R&D budget to find alternatives to our dependency of oil. T o me he seems to have true vision & purpose & I get the impression he really cares. I guess that's all considered part of his charisma.

What about you? Which dumb ass will you be voting for?

Work to live. Don't live to work.

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 15, 2008, 08:59:

I hear ya GIB....It pains me to see that the swell of support for Ron Paul did not get to the main stream.

I can only hope that after 4 or 8 years of a democrat that a person like Ron Paul will re-emerge and the public can get behind someone that is not "one of the boys"..

Waterdawg says on Feb 15, 2008, 09:02:

Hola Frank : I loved what Paul brought to the primary's .. A man I could voted for in a heart beat .. My fellow Countrymen seem to be stuck in the same O same O mode .. Dam Shame " For the Country "...

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 15, 2008, 09:06:

I'm with ya on that WD..... He made complete sense..... it is a shame...

NotoriousGIB1K says on Feb 15, 2008, 09:14:

Ron Paul would have been good. He was all for civil liberties & getting rid of income tax. That would have been interesting. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about when it came to economics.

Work to live. Don't live to work.

Waterdawg says on Feb 15, 2008, 09:16:

GIB..... He was the only Candidate that knows what he is talking about when it comes to the economics of the Country & he is a strong Constitutionist ..

Rubito says on Feb 15, 2008, 09:45:

No doubt a lot of Colombia's economy depends on exports to the US, but you know what, if that starts to decline, Colombia can RETOOL and find another way to make their way in the world. There's nothing I would like to see more than them getting their eggs out of the same basket.

BTW Canada is 74% dependent on exports to the US, THEY are in BIG trouble if there is a US recession.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

diabloblas says on Feb 15, 2008, 09:52:

make no mistake...money is important to me...but without freedom money is pretty much useless

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 10:04:

Ron Paul is probably going to be on all the states ballots...you may be able to vote for him. Time will tell.

Waterdawg says on Feb 15, 2008, 10:13:

... Here are some numbers to think about !!


The U.S. subprime and credit crisis has cost the world over $7.7 trillion, says a report released yesterday by Bank of America. The bank estimates 14.7% of the world’s market capitalization has simply vanished since peaking in October.

If that estimate holds true, the mortgage crisis will go down in history as more financially significant than Wall Street’s “Black Monday� in 1987, the Long-Term Capital Management disaster of 1998, any of the massive international currency crisis’ in the last 20 years… it will be even more financially destructive than the Sept. 11 attacks.

A report by S&P last week suggested that global stock markets lost $5.2 trillion in January alone.


And we’re not out of the woods yet… home prices fell during the last quarter of 2007 by a national median of 5.8%, the worst fall since the National Association of Realtors started keeping track in 1979.

Compared to the same time in 2006, the national average price fell from $219,000 to $206,200 in the last quarter. Of the four regions of the U.S., the West got it the worst -- an 8.7% drop, says the NAR. Prices dropped 4.8% in the Northeast, 5.4% in the South and 3.2% in the Midwest.


Bank auto loans, too, are getting the squeeze. Car loans delinquent for at least two months hit a 10-year high in January, reports Fitch Ratings Thursday. Why should you care? Well, as with mortgage-backed securities, there’s a bevy of auto asset-backed securities stuffed into retirement funds around the globe.

According to Fitch, 0.7% of all auto asset-backed securities contain loans at least two months in delinquency. That’s a 12% rise from December and a 44% jump year over year. Over 4% of subprime auto loans are delinquent, the highest percentage since 1997.

Subprime mortgages have been grabbing all the headlines, but the truth is the credit squeeze runs deep.


Still paying that loan? Don't worry, just default. Everyone does it.

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 15, 2008, 10:28:

WD...i don't think i have any words for your post......ugggggggggggggggggggg...where's my anti-depressant pill...jajajajaa

rocinante says on Feb 15, 2008, 12:23:

Ron Paul would probably never get anything passed. Too bad he was a great candidate. Not that the president runs the country mind you... I didn't know he wanted to do away with income tax. Did he support a flat tax like Forbes? The IRS is a powerful entity. Threaten their existence and thems is fighin' words

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

NotoriousGIB1K says on Feb 15, 2008, 12:36:

Good thing I have a pornographic memory. I dug it up for ya Roc. He also considered the money we throw into social security a fraud (speech 3 at mark 4:50).

Ron Paul speech at CPAC 2/7/8 part 1 of 3
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-oaD9oM4xQo
He states it at mark 1min15secs

Work to live. Don't live to work.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 13:05:

Ron Paul would be assassinated if he somehow were able to get elected.

Look what happened to the last anti war, anti Federal Reserve Prez, JFK.

http://unamericanrevolution.com/activism/ron-paul-assassination-attemp...

Robert Jorge says on Feb 15, 2008, 14:58:

Gloid - I thought Kennedy and his successor are who got us involved in Vietnam.

tomtom33 says on Feb 15, 2008, 15:16:

The French got us into Viet Nam by losing the battle of Dien Bien Phu in May of 1954. Eisenhower was President.

Robert Jorge says on Feb 15, 2008, 15:26:

May 1961 - President Kennedy sends 400 American Green Beret 'Special Advisors' to South Vietnam to train South Vietnamese soldiers in methods of 'counter-insurgency' in the fight against Viet Cong guerrillas.

The role of the Green Berets soon expands to include the establishment of Civilian Irregular Defense Groups (CIDG) made up of fierce mountain men known as the Montagnards. These groups establish a series of fortified camps strung out along the mountains to thwart infiltration by North Vietnamese.

Fall - The conflict widens as 26,000 Viet Cong launch several successful attacks on South Vietnamese troops. Diem then requests more military aid from the Kennedy administration.

October 1961 - To get a first-hand look at the deteriorating military situation, top Kennedy aides, Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow, visit Vietnam. "If Vietnam goes, it will be exceedingly difficult to hold Southeast Asia," Taylor reports to the President and advises Kennedy to expand the number of U.S. military advisors and to send 8000 combat soldiers.

Defense Secretary McNamara and the Joint Chiefs of Staff recommend instead a massive show of force by sending six divisions (200,000 men) to Vietnam. However, the President decides against sending any combat troops.

October 24, 1961 - On the sixth anniversary of the Republic of South Vietnam, President Kennedy sends a letter to President Diem and pledges "the United States is determined to help Vietnam preserve its independence..."

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 15:54:

On Oct 3, 1963, JFK ordered defense secretary Robert McNamara in National Security Memo #263 to remove 1000 of the 16,000 'advisors', troops,etc., by the end of the year. All others were to be removed by 1965 in four separate withdrawals.

On November 24, 1963, with President Kennedys body still warm after the coup d'etat and just hours after being murdered, LBJ rescinded #263 with #273.

In March, of 1964, LBJ ordered the full scale escalation of the war against North Vietnam with NSAM #288.

tomtom33 says on Feb 15, 2008, 15:54:

As in Cuba, the table was set long before JFK arrived.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:00:

The wars after 1945 were on the drawing board in the late 1940's, including Vietnam.

The so-called wars since 1945 were never fought to achieve victory.

They were waged for dollars, without a true military objective, under the control of civilian leaders.

The first twenty years of our "desperate" struggle in Indochina were fought under the operational control of agents of either the OSS or the CIA first assisting Ho Chi Minh to establish the independence of Vietnam, and later, when U.S. policy swung around in alignment with the Cold War, to support the French.

The few bona fide U.S. Armed Forces generals who were in Vietnam were limited to managing and supporting activities, and none of them, at any time, ever served in direct command of combat operations in Indochina.

There was always an ambassador, and frequently a CIA agent-under the cover of a general, both in superior positions.

Such is the nature of these new limited, "make money" wars.

Because of the strategy that continued, the money making aspect of warfare and the dilemma created by the advent of the nuclear weapon, no single event of that thirty-year period has been a more serious indictment of the condition of our present government, of our media, and of those of the lawyer-capitalist system, who are in control of both, than the enormity of the cover story fabrication about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

This situation has prevailed for the past three decades plus. The reason why it has been possible to maintain this enormous cover story for decades is that the greater crime committed on November 22, 1963 was that of the coup d'etat of the government of the United States. The conspirators took control.

Paramount among the many other reasons for this deplorable condition has been the One World growth of a power elite of international bankers and industrial giants who totally disregard the sovereignty of nations and the individual rights of man.

tomtom33 says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:11:

Without being too wordy, the US aided the French in the battle of Dien Bien Phu. Then we intervened to prevent the 1956 reunification of Viet Nam by supporting the Diem government.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:14:

if you want to watch this movie....JFK will give his opinion on Vietnam at 3 minutes and 22 seconds.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:23:

tom, my point was that JFK attempted to stop the escalation and that was one reason for his assassination.

I said that if President Ron Paul were to fulfill his objectives, and remove the troops from Iraq,...haha what do you think would happen? Conjecture only of course.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:41:

We aided Ho and the vietminh also. arms were diverted from the japanese war to good ole Ho and they were hidden and used at Dien bien phu.

In fact, Ho Chi Minh, with an American OSS man and U.S.. Army general standing on each side of him, declared the Independence of Indochina on the same date - September 2, 1945, of the Japanese surrender. That date marks the beginning of the three decades of the Vietnam War, as it was called.

tomtom33 says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:54:

That is one argument. You could also argue that the mob felt betrayed by Bobby's war after they made a deal with Joe to help JFK carry Illinois.

There are always many people who don't like what any President or Administration does.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 17:07:

absolutely, i argue that reason, ....plus a whole lot more.

yes, there are many people who don't like what a president does, but when you go against the Federal Reserve, the Military Industrial Complex, and deny nuclear weapons as JFK did to Israel, you have enough people there to make a coup d'etat stick.

Also, the CIA was running amok and JFK said he was going to tear that organization to pieces and throw it to the wind.

Ron Paul wants a free float on interest rates, thereby competing with the set rates imposed by the privately owned Federal Reserve.

Ron Paul wants a pull out of troops from Iraq.

Ron Paul does not kowtow to Israel.

sloopskipper says on Feb 15, 2008, 18:28:

But, gringoloid, that video is a lead in to a film produced by Hugo Chávez's buddy, Ollie Stone, jaja.

gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 20:39:

an argument stands or falls on its merit........not on who makes it.

tomtom33 says on Feb 16, 2008, 03:15:

Or one could believe the Warren Commission. I personally believe that JFK was more interested on a daily basis in dipping his wick than forming any grand plan to do anything. Look at his stellar list of accomplishments in Congress.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 04:50:

True, gringoloid

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 05:21:

Not one person who was in Dealey Plaza that day supports the conclusions of the Warren Commission. One member of the WC, Congressman Hale Boggs, who stated that he wanted to reopen the investigation into the JFK assassination when he became Speaker of the House, went missing in a plane over Alaska. The body or the plane were never found.

When the House Select Committee on Assassinations finally began its investigations, itself a 'whitewash' that i can prove, they concluded in 1979 that the assassination of JFK was a conspiracy.

The Dictabelt recording, left on accidentally by a stuck key on a Dallas police officers speaker, proved that 4 shots had been fired, thereby destroying the conclusions of the WC that said there were only 3.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 05:26:

I see in your profile, this is of special interest to you. What if there was a 4th shot? A second shooter?

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 05:27:

In a three year period after the assassination, and one year before the HSCA got started, 103 witnesses died. Most were very suspicious deaths or suicides.

A mathematician figures it would be 17 trillion to 1 for all these witnesses to have died this way.

With so many in this group having been ruled a 'suicide', these JFK witnesses would have to be the most depressed group of people there ever were.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 05:29:

Hmmm

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 05:43:

In his inaugural speech, JFK announced a New Frontier, trying to impose radical change on the usa. The very same thing that President Ron Paul would do.

JFK did have a tough time getting many of his domestic programs through Congress as entrenched bureaucrats don't like change.

However, he did get an increased minimum wage, better Social Security benefits, and an urban renewal package passed.

He created the Peace Corps, and his goal to get to the moon by the end of the 60's found overwhelming support.

He was the first american president to fight the mob through his brother Bobby.

One other important event during his term were the Alliance for Progress (the US provided aid to Latin America).

Many of his civil rights objectives were not passed until after his death.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:14:

I'm going to show you two pictures of highly suspicious activity a few feet away from JFK when he was shot.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:22:

In the top picture you can see JFK reacting to being shot.

But look closely in front of the Stemmons Freeway sign. there is a man holding an umbrella and in the Zapruder film he is vigorously raising this 2 feet in the air. Is this a signal for the assasins to start shooting? Why does a man hold an umbrella in Dallas in 1963 on a warm day with no rain? Out of all of the pictures and movies taken that day in Dallas, he is the only one holding an umbrella. Men were men back in 1963.

The man on the right was waving the umbrella.

there are challenges to my statements, so if there are any 'lone nutters' or LNers here who believe Oswald acted alone, i'll make one point per thread.

keep in mind there are thousands of books, movies, and all kinds of media on this event, so there is not much you can do in a blog.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:27:

Now in the second picture, officially, both men do not exist.

Neither FBI nor Warren Commission made any effort to locate them. Researchers claimed that the lack of investigation of these men indicate the poor quality of the government's care of the assassination.

When the House Select Committee on Assassinations was formed, researchers demanded an investigation of both men. Finally, the Committee released a photograph of Umbrella Man and asked anyone to come forward with any information about him.

So we have two characters acting suspiciously a few feet away at the time of the assassination and the govt investigation made no effort to find them.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:29:

After the shots, every single person ran for cover or layed down on the ground, except these two, they calmly just sat down, never to be seen or heard from again.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:31:

The main theory surrounding these men is that both men provided signals for the hidden gunmen. Certainly, this presumes that Kennedy was killed by a coordinated crossfire, perhaps with the help of radiomen. The two men were among the closest bystanders when Kennedy was struck.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:38:

Now there is another theory out there, and it is out there, but it cannot be ignored.

CTer Robert Cutler claimed that the umbrella may have been a dart-firing weapon.

This is supported by the testimony of a CIA weapons developer in 1975 (1). He told the Senate's Intelligence Committee that such an umbrella was in use in 1963. He described the weapon as looking like an umbrella. He explained the dart gun was silently operating and fired through the webbing when the umbrella was opened. He also said that the CIA ordered about 50 of such guns and that they were operational in 1963.

Furthermore, Cutler theorized that Kennedy's throat wound could have been a wound caused by such a dart, but that it was altered during the Bethesda autopsy.

This would also explain Kennedy's lack of motion during the shooting sequence. Many researchers think that since such a weapon existed and its operation is consistent with the actions of Umbrella man, this theory can not be ignored completely.

I really think that this is too far out, I personally think the President was shot in the head with a 'mercury' bullet that was widely used at the time by French assassins in Europe. There were attempts against DeGaulle in this manner.

thats why the original notes of JFKs autopsy were 'destroyed'. all laboratory work is gone because it would have shown that mercury was in the presidents head.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:49:

i have four computers with pictures of the jfk investigation.....i should consolidate......too lazy i guess. i'll see if i can find another later.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:52:

I know its a lousy picture as it is a still from a movie camera. But this is moments after the shooting....chaos......dark complected man in blue has just calmy walked over and sat down next to 'signal man', and is talking on a radio. Witnesses saw this although they were not called before the WC. notice the antenna

i'll look for a better picture that makes the radio more clear.

tomtom33 says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:55:

And I don't believe that Shakespeare really wrote the things attributed to him. But, in the final analysis, does it really matter? Kennedy is dead, and we have gone on.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:12:

Tom, please, don't get me started. Shakespeare was an uneducated 'grain merchant' from the countryside. His parents, nor his children could read or write english. How could he become the greatest exponent of the english language?

Who were possible members and leaders of the Rosicrucian movement during Shakespeare's era?

What were the beliefs of the Rosicrucians? Why is the year 1623 important to the Rosicrucian movement?

Why was the society a secret one?

What is and was Meritorious Order of the Rosy Cross? Was there a connection to the Knight Templars? Is there a connection with the Masonic Orders?

What was the School of Night and who was involved with it?

I can show you many connections between the JFK assassination and the William Shakespeare fraud.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:18:

Amazing, but by now it was so long ago, and many of these people are probably dead.

But, like most everybody (at least my age), I distinctly remember where I was, watching a movie on the mess deck of a U.S. Navy destroyer, off the coast of France.

The film stopped, lights were turned on, and the announcement of the shooting was made. Then the film resumed. It just didn't seem to sink in.



A couple days (maybe the next day) later it was
still as though nothing really happened, if I remember.
No alerts or change of status.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:20:

permit me, large letters.......YES IT DOES MATTER!!!!!

The same people that did in JFK also did Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy, they falsely 'watergated' Richard Nixon........used barratry on John Connally to prevent him from being president..........'lewenskied' Clinton.

And most importantly, killed 3000 americans on 911.

the same people that killed kennedy are the same people committing murder in Iraq.

that's why, in my original comment that started this whole thing I said Ron Paul would be assassinated if he somehow were able to be president.

these days elections are software engineered...........votes mean nothing, so we won´t be seeing a ron paul anyway.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:22:

I have seen some scary TV documentaries about those societies.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:42:

lets get back to it......here is a picture of Michael Harari, a Mossad assassination specialist, taken in 1985. If the Mossad was in Dealey Plaza that day, it would certainly have been Harari.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:46:

it's inconclusive as these two men got up and walked in opposite directions, never to be seen again.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:51:

DAMN!

tomtom33 says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:55:

If those same people did all that stuff, why aren't those people known?

I guess I never cared about any conspiracy stuff. "They" have managed to conspire for all of my 60 years, and they will probably manage to conspire long after I'm dead. I'm mostly interested in what I'm going to have for lunch.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:03:

It is known to people like me who know where to look. I can destroy 80% of the news/lies on CNN and FOX/Faux News.

J P Morgan, illumanati member, first bought control of the top twenty five newspapers almost a century ago.

Second and more sinister, and this is a whitewashed version of what the CIA did during Operation Mockingbird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

tomtom33 says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:06:

Sounds like you are having fun with it, Loid.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:14:

The Big Lie Begins.

From the very beginning, officials of our governtment did not want a true investigation and made every attempt to "make the public satisfied that Oswald was the assassin."


There may be no other document that makes it more clear that there was no interest in a true investigation by the highest federal authorities and it was issued just days after the assassination by Nicholas Katzenbach. J Edgar Hoover wrote a similar memo.

heres part of it, i have more if you want:


Memo from Nicholas deB. Katzenbach, Deputy Attorney General

November 25, 1963

1. The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial.

2. Speculation about Oswald's motivation ought to be cut off, and we should have some basis for rebutting thought that this was a Communist conspiracy or (as the Iron Curtain press is saying) a right-wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists. Unfortunately the facts on Oswald seem about too pat-- too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, etc.). The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced.

Nicholas deB. Katzenbach

Deputy Attorney General

miamimike says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:22:

G'loid--I'm like you! I don't believe for ONE Second the Warren Commission! It was a complete Whitewash not supported by facts! I remember one a slow day at the Rifle Range I was attached to as a Small Arms Instructor during my active duty stint 1965-69(read not Reservist). A Reservist Chicago Policeman brought his personal arms collection to fire this day and we were invited to testfire the collection. Noting a 6.5 mm Italian Carcano(sp) Rifle carbine was present, he challanged the Small Arms Instructors to replicate the rapid fire sequence Oswald used that day he allegedly killed Kennedy. This was the same Weapon Oswald used. All the Instructors were fairly experienced Weapons wise, all had Expert Ratings on the M1 rifle, Springfield Rifle and 45 cal Auto Pistols. This included shooting in Rapid fire, Timed fire sequences across the Navy Match qualification course of fire. Remember now, Oswald was NOT an Expert shot, he had only a Sharpshooter rating and this was markedly different then an Expert rating. Many of these shooters attempting to duplicate the feat were members of the All Service match team active in military competition. Try as we may, we couldn't come close, from the distance Oswald Shot Kennedy, to group Rapid Fire Shots into an area the size of a Man's Head repeatedly. This was done from the 100 and 200 yard line on a flat plane. Kennedy was Shot From an Elevated shooting position and at least a 45 degree elevation angle shot existed and then from a second angled shot for the Lead and the degree of difficulty was increased exponentially. A Shooter had 3 different difficulties to overcome--a moving target and the Two Angles to compute accuratetly At a Moving target yet and we were stationary to boot when we shot. This 6.5 mm Italian was a Miserable piece of Junk for starters as was that dime store scope. No wonder the Italians failed miserably at War-LOL The Muzzle blast and Jump after the first shot made it impossible to come back on target for repeat Shots(with certainty) with the TIME FRame Kennedy was shot in. At best, he one fair Shot to get the job done, at best. Another thing that always puzzled us, why did Oswald, if he was intent on killing the most important Man in the world, settle for a Army Surplus piece of Junk for a Weapon that you buy for $20 out of a greasy barrel at the time. They could hardly give those guns away back then they were so bad. He could have, without too much financial hardship, purchased a Top Notch(for the time) Sniper Grade Rifle like a Winchester or Remington like he used in the Marine Corps in this era with a decent Unertl Sniper Grade Scope. We always thought a serious sniper would have selected a weapon he was familiar with, makes sense. What he did though made no sense,,,I think the Mob also was after Old Joe Kennedy due to a Double cross on a Business deal. Old Joe Kennedy screwed a lot of People on his way to amassing his fortune and I beleive the Mob extracted their revenge in these Assasinations. They(mob) seldom muff their assignments and this was one they did not,,,They didn't send in the "B" Team(oswald) for this job, they had the "A" Team that day pulling the Trigger,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:25:

freaky.....!!! Did we ever go to the moon?

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:30:

worried about lunch?

it would surprise you to know how powerful you are. this satanic cult that runs the world is scared to death that the public will 'wake up'. i can tell by how they came after me.

i'm a retired oppositional defiant personality now, Plato had it right, most people are just sheep and deserve no more than bread and circusses for the masses.

Our true rulers have determined that we shall have no real say in our collective future despite a lot of hard work by us conspiracy theorists.

Like livestock, we will chew our collective cud on sex, drugs, toys and trivia, which they will supply in abundance.

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:43:

Gringoloid, i'm interested in this actually. Though not a conspiracy nut by nature, there is enough evidence to begin opening my eyes to various hoaxes played on the public. Please go on...

goin_south says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:58:

I don't think that's 'conspiracy' so much as simply the old bit about 'flesh vs spirit'....

But in the midst of it all.... GOOD TIMING, FOR A PESO DROP AS I ANTICIPATE HAVING TO MAKE ONE LAST TRIP TO COLOMBIA MUY PRONTO.

DROP OFF!!!

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

goin_south says on Feb 16, 2008, 08:59:

sex, drugs, toys... GRINGOLOID... you forgot pbh and EL INTERNET.

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:29:

There is so much involving the rifle that i could match the total content of this website with my findings.

Thank you all for your interest and I'd like to add a little to the above comments.

Oswald was tested twice in 1956 when he first joined the Marines and he made sharpshooter. He was probably enhusiastic.

In 1959 he was dropped down to marksman, and just barely that after he was tested again.


However, Nelson Delgado, a marine in the same unit as Oswald, used to
laugh at Oswald's shooting prowess and testified that Oswald often got
"Maggie's drawers"; meaning a red flag that is waved from the rifle
pits to indicate a complete miss of the target during qualification
firing. He also said that Oswald didn't seem to care if he missed or
not.

The WC concluded that Oswald was an expert shot, even though the rifle had been sitting in Ruth Paines garage for many months before the shooting and unused.

tomtom33 says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:32:

I got the lunch problem solved. Now it's time for my nap.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:33:

The Mannlicher/Carcano rifle that Oswald is accused of owning was designed in the 1800s. It was so inaccurate that it was useless.

During WWII, Italian soldiers called it the 'weapon of humanity', because it was not known to hurt anybody.

The shipment of this rifle was also from a defective lot of rifles from Italy.

The ammo was what? twenty five years old, maybe?

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:36:

The DPD officers that first found the rifle, labeled it a German Mauser, and said it was 'well oiled'..meaning it was in very good shape.

Deputy Fritz was one of those officers and besides being a police officer, he owned a few pawn shops in Dallas and knew a lot about guns.

he changed his report.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:37:

Here it is....

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:45:

LHO was left handed, so the bolt would have been in his left cheek and nose. making this rifle very difficult for him to use.

The WC reports that this rifle is broken down into 3 pieces.

it is actually 12 pieces, including the sling.

I've put this thing together more than once, the first time it took about 9 minutes but never less than 3 minutes. what was going through LHOs mind as he was putting this thing together getting ready to shoot?

In the WC story, they did not use the scope, they used open iron sights to make the time fram fit. Sooooo, you mean LHO put the scope on afterwards? No Way.

Plus you have to "sight" a scope. Another words, you can't just put a scope on and start shooting. You have shims that align the scope with the rifle and it takes about 10 shots for an expert. WC never explained how LHO 'sighted' the scope.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:48:

As far as the logistics go, it is very difficult to downwards, at a moving target that is going down an incline as well as moving further away from the shooter.

It is nothing like shooting level at a stationary target.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:56:

I'll leave you with one more about the gun. Sgt Carlos Hathcock was the deadliest sniper in the Vietnam war and probably the deadliest in the world.

When he returned from Nam, he was assigned to be the director of the sniper school at Quantico, VA.

Him and all of his buddies decided to reenact the JFK shooting with towers and all. They were never able to pull off the 3 shots in the time frame of the Zapruder film.

The WC used open iron sights and they used a Cadillac limo rather than the Lincoln that JFK drove in. The seats were closer and JFK was much higher in the Caddy.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:58:

BTW, the secret service was washing the limo at Parkland Hospital minutes after dropping JFK off, thereby eliminating a lot of evidence.

The limo was destroyed one week later along with the suit John Connally was wearing.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 10:36:

But, groingoloid, from all your research, any real conclusions? Or does it all just raise more questions?

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 10:41:

Any explanation why the Limo was destroyed, or at least why so quickly? If I remember was an old Lincoln, maybe 1950-51.

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 10:43:

I was thinking Eisenhower's, maybe. Now I see was a 60s Lincoln.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 11:13:

i have some real conclusions, but without a court of law there is not much you can do. there is also a lot of disinformation out there to make things more confusing. many of the way out theories were actually concocted by the CIA to make CTers look bad.

the limo was desroyed so as to cover their tracks and remove evidence.

what if there were 5 bullets in there. like the steel in the world trade center that was moved out of the country in 3 weeks and melted down, the limo had to go.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 11:22:

There is another problem too, just think of 8 years of John, 8 years of Robert, and 8 years of Ted.

Lots of people thought that may be a big problem.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 11:24:

The RFK assassination is much easier to see as a conspiracy. More bullet holes were in the walls than Sirhan had in his gun.

And again, the interior of the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel was quickly removed and destroyed.

tomtom33 says on Feb 16, 2008, 11:33:

Damn, "they" have been busy. Did they destroy the curtain at Ford's Theater as well?

miamimike says on Feb 16, 2008, 11:41:

"I'll leave you with one more about the gun. Sgt Carlos Hathcock was the deadliest sniper in the Vietnam war and probably the deadliest in the world.

When he returned from Nam, he was assigned to be the director of the sniper school at Quantico, VA.

Him and all of his buddies decided to reenact the JFK shooting with towers and all. They were never able to pull off the 3 shots in the time frame of the Zapruder film."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bingo! Agree 100%~ The question also begs, when someone is plotting to assassinate the most important person in the world in the manner it was planned, why would you not have the Absolute Best Equipment money could possibly buy? Unless you where put stationed there only as a plant, a stooge, a distraction while the real triggermen were only a few meters away making it all but impossible to miss the Vital Target.

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

sloopskipper says on Feb 16, 2008, 13:33:

WHAT a book/movie!

BillBigD says on Feb 16, 2008, 15:27:

gringoloid-can you go into more on the missing metal from 911? Had not heard that part yet.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 15:30:

tom...eat dinner, take a nap.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 15:30:

tom...eat dinner, take a nap.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 15:36:

mike, we could drill this down forever and ever, but those carcanos were being sent by the CIA to the anti castro cubans. i think they just grabbed one off the top of the pile and attributed ownership to LHO. Take a look at this memo. Why were they buying ammo for guns the USMC weren't using?

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:00:

holy moly !!! GL is that for real?? Authentic doc??

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:07:

it most certainly is real, and i have thousands of documents like this dealing with all parts of the assassination. lots of pictures too. there was a lot of stuff that became available under the Freedom of Information in the 1990s. there are still millions of pages of evidence that have not been looked at yet.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:11:

Billy, the steel was removed as quickly as possible from the world trade center and sent to China and India. Fire engineers were never given a chance to examine the steel to see what could be done to prevent future failures.

Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer, an associate professor in the Fire Protection Engineering Department at the University of Maryland, was quoted in the New York Times as saying: "I find the speed with which potentially important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling."

Officials running the "cleanup operation" took pains to make sure the structural steel didn't end up anywhere but in blast furnaces. They installed GPS locator devices on each of the trucks hauling loads from Ground Zero at a cost of $1000 each. One driver who took an extended lunch break was dismissed

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:47:

here is the reason why they wanted to destroy the evidence. notice above the firefighters head the steel column that has been cut.

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:52:

this picture is from a History Channel show on the demolition of buildings. the steel is cut and then on the day of demolition a charge is place blowing out that piece.

During the summer of 2001, all empoyees in the WTC were removed for hours during the day. this occurred many times and was probably the time the steel was cut and explosives placed.

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:53:

GL....on the oswald story....didn't they find like a bullet on the stretcher with Kennedy that was not deformed....ie. looked like it was fresh and not even fired????

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 16:54:

Go ahead and just try and interview any air traffic controller about 911. You can't, they've been muzzled. Within 5 minutes of calling an air traffic controller you will receive a call from either an FBI agent or an NSA agent telling you to get lost.

rocinante says on Feb 16, 2008, 20:25:

Ask a pilot. Know how difficult it is to hit a specific building with a huge jet liner? 2 planes twice? No help from ATC? Amatuer pilots? See the way the second plane almost makes a "Blue Angel" move to maneuver to the target? That was NOT done by those guys on board.

I worked in tower 2 on 9/11 (floor 68 Morgan Stanley) and had been in and around WTC since 1995 when I started with Banker's Trust (Bought out by Deutsch Bank, the building next door to Tower 2, the one they are getting ready to demolish for the past 4 years).

My tower went down first - I think there were bombs bringing towers down. I heard and saw them. I'm not a demo expert but I don't think I'm wrong. I was pretty close, a bit north on Chambers St. by that time. After that I ran up Hudson towards Christopher St. thinking I'd catch the Path to Hoboken - everyone wanted out of Manhattan. Instead I wound up at the nearest bar. Trains weren't running anyway. I witnessed tower 1 collapse from a bar. 10:30 AM I was drinking a double scotch and soda - no ice no soda, with a pint of Harp chaser, watching the TV, after seeing my building collapse thinking that about 10,000 people were probably dead. Morgan Stanley only lost 3 people out of 3,000 of us and I only lost 4 friends total - 2 from AON and 2 from Cantor Fitzgerald.

The bartender at the Commuter's Cafe at the base of the towers, inside the concourse by the Path (I lived in Jersey City for 7 years and took the path train twice a day) told me one night I was there back in 1996 that there were bombs in the building - in case the building had to be brought down? He didn't say, I didn't ask why or what he thought, or how he knew. I don't know why and I was usually at the Commuter's Cafe after already banged up having done the happy hour thing somewhere else. That bartender and his brother had been there since initial construction and the bar was built and open before before either tower hit 30 stories structurally - alomst 30 years. At that time in the late 60s all the customers were construction workers. He knew a lot of people. I didn't remember what he had told me until 6 months after the attack.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

gringoloid says on Feb 16, 2008, 20:39:

good story roci.....i dropped out of college in 1969 to be an ironworker and worked on the WTC.

frankrizzo....yea, thats true, but as usual there is a lot of controversy about those stretchers. no one knows which stretcher the president and john connally were on. a reporter said he saw and talked with jack ruby at Parkland Hospital and maybe it was him dropping the bullet onto the stretcher.

but here it is, the magic bullet, the bullet that went through both jfk and connally and is in almost perfect condition. CTers say you could not get a bullet in this condition by shooting it in water.....that it would have to be cotton.

Robert Jorge says on Feb 16, 2008, 21:08:

I shoot left handed. I am right handed - but when I learned to shoot in Boy Scouts, I started shouldering weapons on my left side - perhaps because of a dominant left eye. Anyway, I can shoot a .5 minute of angle, 7 shot group, at 100 yards, with a $400 Savage Police Tactical .308, with a Walmart scope. I have several targets that I have kept. One, I hit a grasshopper on it. I had that one framed. It has a Mauser style bolt action.

I got this info from the same Wilkpedia article used in other posts above:

"The results of the CBS test were as follows: 7 of 11 shooters were able to fire three rounds under 5.6 seconds (64%). Of those 7 shooters, 6 hit the orange target once (86%), and 5 hit the orange target twice (71%). Out of 60 rounds fired, 25 hit the orange (42%), 21 hit the blue portion of the target (35%), and there were 14 misses on the target (23%). "

The people shooting the rifles never had any practice with the rifles and were a hodge podge of different people.

Many people would argue that the Italian rifles are actually quite accurate. The age of the rifle was brought up. If you ask any guy who is into precision rifle shooting what the most coveted weapon is: it is a custom made rifle using a pre-WWII Mauser action. One of the most popular handguns carried today is the Colt .45 automatic - officially started production in 1911. The most popular deer rifle in the world, the Winchester model 94 in 30-30, was first produced in 1894. As far as the age of the ammo??? WWII and even WWI vintage ammo is still readily available and totally serviceable. I have bandoleers of WWI British .303 ammo and German 8mm Mauser from WWII. I can hit a 10" pie plate from 100 yards, standing, without a rest, consistently with either weapon.

My point is that despite how hard people try to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald could not have been capable of shooting Kennedy, it is entirely possible, and even likely.

Robert Jorge says on Feb 16, 2008, 21:17:

Actually Gringoloid, that bullet is totally typical of a round of that type that has hit a person. Military production rounds have an extremely thick jacket - often even made of copper washed steel. It will take a while for me to find them, but I can show you fired bullets I have recovered at the range that have gone through 1/2 inch plywood, and then buried into gravel and dirt backstops. They look very similar to the "magic bullet." Very little damage or deformation. That is why any ethical hunter will NOT use military issue rounds when hunting game. They tend to pass through the animal without transfering energy. Basically, the animal gets a lethal wound, but dies very slowly.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 07:44:

those CBS tests were at 30 feet high, not 60 feet where LHO would have been.

the scope was off for the tests they used open iron sights,....not the way the WC said he fired the shots with a scope. And there were no shims found for sighting the scope on the rifle.

I restate again that these were not orginal rifles, they were defectives. I provide a citation if you want. The scope was a defective also.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 07:47:

The Dallas Police Dept, gave LHO a parrafin test when they picked him up. He passed, ....according to the DPD, he did not fire a rifle that day. Another words there were no nitrites on his face.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 08:03:

Much of CT research centers around finding holes in the findings report and as to whether LHO made the shot. I realize that there are a lot of good shooters out there and you may be one of them with good equipment.

I've sat in the window in the TSD next to LHOs sniper nest and I even think I could make that shot. But when FBI sharpshooters and Masters from the National Rifle Assoc couldn´t do it.....it raises a flag. (I'll post some info on the disinformation that is put out to make you believe and to quote that kind of stuff. Many of the JFK pages are disputed if you look at the top of the page.

No one saw LHO walk into the building that day or any other day with a rifle. He had a bag that he said were curtain rods and everyone said it fit under his arm.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 08:10:

How to think Like a Conspiracy Theorist
by gringoloid

people ask why study 911 or the JFK assassination.

take a look at this link. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,326696,00.html


as you can see, it is a recent story about the internet going out in the middle east that you can find on basically any site in the controlled media, cnn, bloomberg, nbc, ..etc,.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 08:17:

I smelled a rat immediately. I began my investigation outside of the controlled media to get the real truth.

I can believe one cable being damaged, by an "errant anchor" as the controlled media reported in a given year or two, but FIVE cables in 3 days?

The internet was out in every country from Egypt all the way through India. Curiously, Iraq and Israel were unaffected in this outage.

the lying news media said it was an errant anchor off of egypt that did this. this was disproven as ships are not allowed anywhere near the water where these cables lie. you never heard or saw them react to their lies and being exposed.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 08:24:

So......what happened? I really don't know....but I have a theory.....

Was this the usa and israel knocking out the internet to see the reaction and find a weakness just in case they attack Iran. I dunno.

Was it some kind of warning, telling the arab counries that you better 'play ball' or this is what might happen?.......I dunno.

i don't know the answers, i only point out fraud and lying by our news media and govt and provide speculation, and that I could be very wrong.

With all the lying that they do.....I don't believe anything I read in the controlled media.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 09:23:

The bullet on the top is the magic bullet, CE 399, that the WC says went through JFK, made several turns in the air, and then went down into Connallys wrist, then broke his rib and went into his leg.

The problem with this pristine bullet is it broke Connallys rib.

The two bullets on the bottom are typical of what happens when shot into a rib cage of an animal.

Robert....was the magic bullet going 'dead on' straight? Or was it 'tumbling?'

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 09:33:

BTW, there wasn't any flesh, cartilage, or bone of JFK, JC, or anyone else found imbedded on the bullet. Is this common?

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 10:19:

In this memo, as i circled in yellow, the guy at the hospital who found the bullet could not identify the bullet when it was shown to him later. Neither could his boss. obviously, a different bullet.

I can believe that one or two witnesses can make a mistake, but there were many other witnesses who said, when told to sign their statement, "Thats not what I told you!"

LDW says on Feb 17, 2008, 10:39:

I have the following theory about the Kennedy assassination (and I emphasize "theory", because I have no proof):

(1) The Kennedy assassination was in fact a conspiracy.
(2) The Kennedy clan knows who the conspirators are.
(3) The Kennedy clan are remaining silent because the conspirators also have dirt on JFK and Bobby on the death of Marilyn Monroe.

It's no secret that JFK was bonking Marilyn (JFK was bonking lots of women). If Marilyn had spilled the beans about their screwing each other, that would have undone his 1964 presidential bid. Did Jack and Bobby silence her? I wonder.

tomtom33 says on Feb 17, 2008, 10:43:

Bobby was nailing her, too.

I think it goes back to Inga Arvad.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 10:57:

I don't think even the strongest LNer would deny that this rifle was a piece of junk. Please show me anywhere that this rifle was accurate. It's best attribute was the easy slide of the bolt, but that is what made it inaccurate. The machine tolerances became very bad as the decades of manufacture increased.

And on the other side, this is a very powerful rifle......and it can very easily kill someone

A Mannlicher-Carcano must be loaded with one shell at a time into the chamber before firing, unless a charger, or clip, is first loaded with six cartridges and then inserted into the action of the rifle, thus permitting more rapid firing.

This was the second gun found by the DPD and they never found an ammo magazine. so, there fore, it would have been impossible to pull these shots off with the MC that was found.

Back in the 60s, there was very little questioning about this problematic rifle by Americans.

The European press openly doubted that a Mannlicher-Carcano could have been used as the assassination weapon. The Italian newspaper Corriere Lombardo of Milan wrote on November 26, 63 that if the Model 38 Mannlicher-Carcano were used and that if more than one shot were fired “there must have been a second attacker.�

In France, Paris Jour declared flatly that a non-automatic rifle could not have been used to pump two bullets into the President and one into Texas Governor John B. Connally within a matter of seconds.

Hubert Hammerer, the Olympics champion rifle shooter, stated that the initial shot could have come from a bolt-action weapon, but he did not believe that one man could have fired three shots in a few seconds with the weapon used.

There always has been considerable doubt that this weapon could have been used to kill JFK that day.

sloopskipper says on Feb 17, 2008, 11:20:

Seriously, Gringo-, have you never considered writing a book, after all that research?

Fascinating stuff.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 12:28:

yea, Marilyn had to go. The usual mistakes.

She had an enormous level of barbiturates in her system but the usual signs of an overdose were absent.....i.e., there were pills in her colon, but none in her stomach.

Marilyn had had an abortion on the 20th of July. It has been said that she had as many as a dozen abortions over the years. But certainly it is well known that she was terminated by her job at Fox Studio. And there were problems with her relationship with Robert F Kennedy; he was not returning her calls.

Evidence is missing, including the original autopsy, her supposed suicide note (which mentioned suicide not at all), and original police report.

The first officer at the death scene has publicly disputed the suicide finding.

In 1985, a 20/20 episode was to air where Robert Slatzer postulates that Monroe was killed by Bobby Kennedy, or was in his presence when she died. The show was cancelled.

Here is Marilyns morgue shot........pretty bad for being in her late thirties.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 12:36:

Yea, the Kennedys really did it alright, mobsters and their politicos had a lot of fun.

JFK was rumored to have done Marilyn and Jeanne Carmen in a threesome.

that would be like doing Pam Anderson and Carmen Electra at the same time.

All this intrique is just fascinating to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Carmen

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 12:40:

sloop, i'm being very tame around here, but there was a time when i took all this very seriously and was much more hard hitting.

if people knew what was going on in the world, they would freak out.

my book would get me shot, that's why i'm retired from all this stuff. nobody would print my book anyway.

i was publicly labeled as the most dangerous man in orange county, ca., at one time.

huskie says on Feb 17, 2008, 13:25:

umm.....
cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

Ctg Bound says on Feb 17, 2008, 14:39:

gringoloid, very interesting reading regarding Kennedy, I agree it was a hit, probably by two or more hit men.

As to the world trade center steel columns, the one in your photo doesn't mean anything, metal shears in straight lines sometimes, it looks like many I have seen shear before.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 15:19:

CB.....i can't imagine where you ever saw structural steel 'shearing'. These are the ONLY three structural steel buildings that have ever fallen since the inception of this type of engineering in 1905 or thereabouts.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 15:54:

I'll leave you with something factual tonight.

Below is a put to call graph just days before 911.

A put, in very simple terms, is a financial derivative whereby this instrument will make money if the stock goes down.

Seems like the only two airlines to have all this action were United and American, the two companies who had planes hijacked on 911.

In the week before, there was no eventful news that would have caused this surge.

Puts averaged about 5,000 per day normally until a few days before the attack where the total went to 250,000.

the total profit was about $15 billion.

the FBI, SEC, 911 Commission, completely ignored these financial transactions.

Frank Rizzo says on Feb 17, 2008, 15:58:

Hi GL...so the spike is the increase in puts sold, si?? Interesting...i'm sure they bought calls too.......this is a thread that makes me nervous and angry at the same time.

gringoloid says on Feb 17, 2008, 16:18:

Thanks for the reminder FR.........there was this same enormous increase in CALL action for one company that would benefit from all this....Raytheon, maker of the Patriot and Tomahawk missiles.

On the day before 911, call action increased 600% for Raytheon.

In very simple terms, a 'call' is a leveraged financial instrument where if the unerlying stock goes up in value during a certain time period, the call will make money.

BillBigD says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:56:

GL-great stuff! I remember two days after the attack my mexican girlfriend told me that the Mexican media was reporting that the US goverment did it . I told her she was a fool. Then I watched that documentary and it sure makes you think. HMMM? Really interesting stuff

tomtom33 says on Feb 18, 2008, 03:21:

The US government did it. And the cow jumped over the moon.

Ctg Bound says on Feb 18, 2008, 06:23:

gringoloid , metal is metal, it doesn't matter how big it is, I have seen plenty of shearing that looks like the above.

Also I don't buy into any grand conspiracy theory regarding 9/11, the other potential ones you quote involve VERY few people to pull it off and see what is going on, 9/11 involved 100,000s of witnesess.

Let alone all those that were watching it live on TV, Wall street reacted straight away, no doubt some there saw the planes hit there, I saw wall street dropping as I was playing the market at the time, a few minutes later I saw it on the TV and then the news wires, a hell of a lot of people involved to pull it off, fake planes crashing into buildings, witnesess to cover up, families to pretend that their loved ones were on the planes, the list goes on and on, way to big.

Ctg Bound says on Feb 18, 2008, 06:27:

gringoloid, there is little doubt that somebody in the know, shorted the market and airline stocks, plus possibly did the reverse on defence stocks, a pretty good chance the financial people in the terrorist organisation did it, or people linked to them.

I doubt that the authorities ignored the transactions, they just haven't published the results of their investigation.

Ctg Bound says on Feb 18, 2008, 06:27:

double post

gringoloid says on Feb 19, 2008, 14:24:

This is the reason why I'm retired from politics and investigative reporting.

Rocinante said it best, .....there is more substance from Clyde in "gettin papi out of house", than most political and economic threads on this blog!

Up until today I thought a dense sister of mine, a hypocrite christian, had the most idiotic defense for 911.....she said that the leadership of the US is made of "good Christians, Bush and Clinton, and they would never do anything like 911."

Metal is Metal?? There is no difference between Iron and Steel? No difference between rod, surgical, stainless, reinforced steel? Aluminum? Why don't we just build buildings out of tin foil, and save a lot of money? How come steel cookery doesn't melt? Or steel jet engines?

I made a simple claim that never in world history has a structural steel building fallen like that. You said you've seen it many times........name one.

I wouldn't even comment on the statement 'the report is not out yet', on the insider trading done the few days before 911. You could have gotten the correct answer out of the controlled media. there is no inductive or deductive reasoning needed at all........you haven't read one word of any prosecution anywhere....getting the correct answer to that question only involves simple pattern recognition.

take this in the best way you can, please go back to sleep.
.

gringoloid says on Feb 19, 2008, 14:25:

there are some people out there, yes, you know who you are, that probably want a piece of me. I would have wanted to start at the beginng of 911, and not at middle like we have........but I have a graph below of the seismic readings taken from Columbia Universitys Palisade, NY center (PAL) at the moment of the collapse of wtc2.

Never mind that both 1 and 2 towers fell at free fall speed, nothing really impeded the perfectly symmetrical collapse. But we can go into that if you want.

Never mind that tower 2 was leaning at 22 degrees before it came down. Sir Isaac Newton here is on my side as he would tell you that only a force in the opposite direction could stop an accelerating tilting such as we saw with tower 2.

Never mind the question of why did tower 2 come down first when it was hit second, and it was only hit at the corner of the building and surely did not hit the center supports and the fires being under control? Was two taken down first because of the leaning?

I have about a 100 more just on this tower, but never mind.

gringoloid says on Feb 19, 2008, 14:26:

OK, so this is a 40 second seismic report of Tower 2 falling. The most important thing to keep in mind is that a Richter Scale increases in force geometrically, not proportionally so each digit vertically is a 10 fold increase. All numbers and lines in red are my markings.

#1 is where the noise starts at about 5 seconds to about 18 seconds. # 2 is a 2.3 earthquake, 3,4 are 2.1 earthquakes. #8 represents a line of smaller earthquakes. This noise is unexplainable.

#7, at 20 seconds, represents a line where people say that WTC began to fall, another words, the antenna at the top began to telescope inwards. A lot of people disagree on the exact second, therefore the line.

Now #6 is the steel hitting the ground where it started by most accounts at just before 30 seconds. Why are the spikes louder than when the steel hitting the ground?

go ahead, hit me with some disinformation you read somewhere, i'm ready for ya.....

Or, you can argue with a Bush team member here who says it was a controlled demolition.

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/6031/Former_Bush_Team_Member_Says_WTC_Collap...

gringoloid says on Feb 19, 2008, 14:27:

All that is known for sure is that the spikes precede the actually falling of the steel to the ground. You would think that the steel hitting the ground would be the the most powerful event.

The government's position?....., "we have no idea what caused the spikes and it is still under investigation."

As new information has been uncovered over the years Govt witnesses and media sources have changed their story on these seismic reports so many times, I couldn't count.

The scientist that first interpreted has changed his story 180 degrees.

gringoloid says on Feb 19, 2008, 14:27:

So you can take the time at the top of the graph.....change it from GM