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Can anyone say here comes the democrats to take our guns???

He bought the guns legally.....so now the democrats are going to get elected to "close down that little constitutional loophole"....jajajajaja

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/niu_shooting

By Frank Rizzo on Feb 15, 2008, 10:44 in Off Topic.

slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 12:33:

I'm a gun owner of long standing. a former collector of handguns. a former avid hunter.

but guess what? the gun lobby ALWAYS quotes the Second Amendment out of context.

"A WELL REGULATED MILITIA (my caps), being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Clearly,. the Framers were concerned about maintaining an effective militia, for the common defense - NOT about allowing every man, woman and child in the country to own 3-4 firearms. The militia part is NEVER mentioned when gun ownership is discussed by pro-ownership folks.

Elvis has pretty much left the building on this one, much like on the outrageous numbers of illegal immigrants here- too late to really do anything about the inordinately high gun ownership in this country. But let's at least be honest about the issue, and not try to pretend that the 2nd amendment was included in the Constitution to promote individual gun ownership. It wasn't. In colonial times, and for years following, the militias were our only real national defenses, thus the 2nd Amendment.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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scotty says on Feb 15, 2008, 14:33:

thats right the democrats are coming, get ready to lose your rights, and one of those rights is the right to bear arms. a look at the programs Hillary and Obama plan to enact will raise your taxes greatly.
if you think Bush was a spending freak just wait till the Dems take control.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 14:37:

see, scotty? you just did EXACTLY what I was talking about. jajajajajajajajjaa

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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rocinante says on Feb 15, 2008, 14:40:

They always do. There's no need for the public to bear arms. We have an army. Feel free to bear arms and join.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 14:43:

and btw, scotty- if any administration has done more to erode our personal rights/freedoms than this current "conservative" admin, I can't imagine which one it could have been....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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MaFe says on Feb 15, 2008, 14:58:

Of course their is a reason for the public to bare arms. I own a gun, and LOVE the fact that I can own a gun. Who is anyone to tell me I can't own a gun? As a single woman, what am I supposed to do if someone breaks into my home?Is the Army going to come into my home at 2:00am, and protect me?

This country is going down...we lose our right to bare arms, what's next?

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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MaFe says on Feb 15, 2008, 15:04:

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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ColombianoGringo says on Feb 15, 2008, 15:08:

I saw an op/ed piece earlier that made a good point. Most universities and schools are designated "gun-free" zones so anyone intent on such a killing spree knows that they will likely face no one that is armed. Apparently, this asshole even had time to reload. If a few a few people were legally carrying guns at that college, they might have had a chance to save a life or two. England seems to be a perfect example of a "gun-free" country full of innocent people who are at the mercy of the thugs that couldn't care less about gun laws. I hope that sort of bullshit never happens in the US.

On the other hand, I doubt the Democrats would "take our guns away". Clinton didn't do it and it would be political suicide for anyone that tried it. Besides, as slguy points out, the current Republican administration has stolen lots of our rights and liberties.

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 16:12:

I'm not saying for a moment that any of us should give up our guns. MaFe. For the exact reasons you list. I only wish the pro-gun folks would stop hiding behind an out-of-context 2nd Amendment for their justification.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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scotty says on Feb 15, 2008, 17:01:

you aint seen nothin yet slguy, wait until Obama gets in the white house with a all Democtac house and senate, you'll think GW was a girl scout compared to what Obama will do.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 17:22:

I don't believe for one skinny second Obama occupies the White House in 2009. I'd bet a pretty good chunk against it, in fact.

but even if he were elected, your statements are PURE conjecture, scotty- since Obama is like a playtex bra- no visible means of support, who knows what he's up to?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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scotty says on Feb 15, 2008, 18:38:

well slguy, no one thought he would get this far, he could and probably will be the democratic candidate. no one thought Mccain would get this far everyone said he was finished and look at him now.
i really dont understand the second part of your statement " like a playtex bra no visable means of support" whats that mean?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 18:42:

When James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights, he and all of the founding fathers were aware of government tyranny. The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon was a bestseller in the colonies and was surely read by all.

What government gets 'rights'. govts don't get rights, people get rights. everyone one of those rights are for the people,.....why would they make 9 rights for the people and 1 right for the govt. it doesn't make sense.

btw, there were 2 more rights but they weren't passed by the senate, and they are also individual rights:

1. "No person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."
2. "No State shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or the freedom of the press, or the trial by jury in criminal cases."

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 18:49:

what I meant was, scotty- the guy's an enigma. besides "change", I can't really figure out WTF he's up to. I mean- I see no underwire in his persona. what's supports him, philosophically? I have no clue.

hillary's easy- she's about the power, pure and simple.

McCain? I think he's a pragmatist, which is what we need in 1600 right now. This goofyassed idealogue has hurt us in ways we probably don't understand, even now.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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gringoloid says on Feb 15, 2008, 18:53:

i understand what mccain is all about.......he is financed by George Soros, the biggest liberal trouble maker there ever was.

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slguy says on Feb 15, 2008, 18:54:

amen. the world's a better place absent Soros.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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scotty says on Feb 15, 2008, 20:52:

Soros a very scarey guy, lots of money, hates american way, very liberal, willing to spend his money to make the goverment the way he wants it to be.
I always thought that Soros was a big Clinton supporter, i havent seen anything that tells me he is McCain supporter, if he is a McCain supporter why didnt he use his big money for McCain?

Slguy you are right, Obama does excellent speeches but nobady knows what he is saying, its all about hope and change and we can do it, pep rally talk, but where does he stand on the important issues?

Clintons= biggest l;iars on the face of the earth

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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DodgerDogs says on Feb 16, 2008, 00:31:

Fox news biggest tabloid on TV, the Republicans comedy channel.
The Republicans can not be trusted.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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scotty says on Feb 16, 2008, 01:37:

oh, and the Dems can be trusted? not!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Dan says on Feb 16, 2008, 05:45:

"We have an army. Feel free to bear arms and join."

-I have been for 10yrs now... and now, I have a couple personal firearms and I'm happy with them so far. I'm going to a range and try them out today.

"Is the Army going to come into my home at 2:00am, and protect me?"

-Depends on which Army person(s) might be around..hehehe

As far as which side can/can't be trusted... Lately, I'm not really all that impressed with either side right now. I'm not real big in following with politics most of the time... certainly not as much as I should, but, if I was to chose which side I would support, it would be the Republican side. Mainly due to better support for the military.

God Bless America!

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huskie says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:44:

I for one, think the right to bear arms should be taken out of the constitution, too many people getting hurt because its so easy to get guns and kill others, I agree with Rocinante, if you want to bear arms, join the military.

The NRA should be completely .....

Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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huskie says on Feb 16, 2008, 06:54:

Dan: if guns are banned, then you would not need an army to protect you, because nobody will be out to hurt you, right now you need to protect yourself because guns are so easy to get, there are even websites where they show all the to manufacture and sell all kinds of crazy stuff.
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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Dan says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:09:

Yeah, I know... with the help of a guy from work, I built an AR15 this past week. It's fun. and SOOO easy.

God Bless America!

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huskie says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:12:

There you go
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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Dan says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:14:

and while in Afghanistan, I ordered a glock... so... I'm off to the local range to try them out.
Have a good day!!

God Bless America!

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huskie says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:17:

Do not know what a glock is but good luck at the range, and good luck when you go back to fight for our country, if you think it will be our country later...
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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Dan says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:26:

glock is a brand of pistol

www.glock.com

God Bless America!

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slguy says on Feb 16, 2008, 07:38:

You'll be happy with the glock, dan. damned near indestructible. you pull the trigger, it fires. every time.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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MaFe says on Feb 16, 2008, 09:54:

Dan I agree with you...I always go to whoever supports the military...
I still believe in the constitution...

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 16, 2008, 10:41:

everyone should have a gun....... it would help with overpopulation of certain areas. lol j/k

it should be part of the economic stimulus package. lol

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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Dan says on Feb 16, 2008, 12:45:

Ok, just got back from shooting...
The glock was great!! I've shot a glock .45 before once during a training thing for work.. but the 9mm that I got is great! Like you said slguy, it fires every time. I think it's easier to aim than the military M9.

I also fired the AR15 that I built and that fires pretty good too. Now I'm just thinking of what kind of extras I can get for it.

Over all, a great day at the range. Pretty relaxing and chatting with a guy from work who works there on the weekend.

God Bless America!

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 16, 2008, 22:46:

Dan, if you want good buys and good conversation in regards to weapons, I recommend www.AR15.com They have a great blog as well as "equipment exchange."

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Dan says on Feb 17, 2008, 04:28:

a guy I work with told me about that site. I used the build instructions for mine. I'm also looking around and seeing what other "toys" I could someday get a hold of. Very good site.

God Bless America!

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Dan says on Feb 17, 2008, 12:36:

I got mine!!

God Bless America!

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scotty says on Feb 17, 2008, 13:17:

im just totally amazed how liberals live in a fantasy world. why is it that liberals always want to take away god given and constitution given rights....i dont get it? i thry to understand their way of thinking but i just dont get it???
let me see the constitution says as americans we have the right to bear arms...this is how we are able to protect our selves and our families. along come left wingers and they say we shouldnt have this protection, we need to take everyones guns away...after all we have an army???
what kind of thinking is that?
let me say this, many of our rights have already been taken away, little by little one small step at a time the goverment is taking away our rights and getting more and more control of our lives.
when the day comes that the goverment takes away americans right tobear arms that is the day this country comes to an end as a free nation, on that day when that law passes...its over, we are done.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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slguy says on Feb 17, 2008, 13:26:

scotty- do you read other posts, or just rant? read the 2nd Amendment in it's entirety, please, then comment on this "right to bear arms".

and I'll remind you again- this "conservative" president has done FAR more to erode our personal freedoms than any democratic president of our generation. and I say this speaking as a lifelong republican.

You're pretty good at rightwing hyerbole, but you don't seem to let the facts get in your way too often, amigo.....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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scotty says on Feb 17, 2008, 13:58:

slguy you just dont get it do you? look man...it does no good to rant about this president, this man is gone in 10 months, this man has never tried to take our right to bear arms away from us...got it!
thats what the subject is the right for americans to bear arms and protect themselves its not about which president is worse...cuz they all stink...got it!
the point is this...a republican prez wont take your arms away but a democrat president would surely try.
once your protection is taken away you have lost all your rights because now you have no way to protect yourself, your business, your familia and your country. stop beiong so political and so anti Bush and look at the facts concerning the right to bear arms and protect ones self...sheesh!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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slguy says on Feb 17, 2008, 14:09:

"let me say this, many of our rights have already been taken away, little by little one small step at a time the goverment is taking away our rights and getting more and more control of our lives."...."thats what the subject is the right for americans to bear arms and protect themselves its not about which president is worse"

scotty, the above sounds suspiciously like it's about more than the "right to bear arms".

"stop beiong so political and so anti Bush and look at the facts concerning the right to bear arms and protect ones self...sheesh!"

Just for the record, I voted for him twice. I'm ashamed to admit it- but it's true. And I beg your pardon- but I only see one of us ranting here- and I don't think it's me. ;)

I'll say it again, scotty- you have a TON of hyperbole- but where's your evidence of a) the dems will take away a right (that is reserved for the militia in the first place) or b) that once this right is stripped of us, anyone plans any further takeovers?

You LOVE hyperbole- but I see very little, if any, hard data, firm policy statements, that back up all your fear-mongering.

But if it gives you pleasure to spout stuff, be my guest. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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scotty says on Feb 17, 2008, 15:56:

oh so my posts are ranting and yours arent ...ok...well then you just do all the posting and i'll just sit here and read your posts, hows that? im sure everyone here would rather just read your posts and not hear my opinions on the subject...sooooo.. go ahead slguy start posting. i promise i wont respond because i certainly wouldnt want to rant.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 17:27:

I'm curious as to whether there is a correlation between those that would agree with Huskie and say that the "right to bear arms should be taken out" out of the Bill of Rights and those that believe redistribution of wealth for welfare and/or socialized health care SHOULD be a "right" and added to the Bill of Rights.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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slguy says on Feb 17, 2008, 17:48:

scotty,man, you misunderstood me. Much of the time I agree with you- I think we just get there in different paths. I'd like to understand your viewpoint better, is all I'm asking. Telling us things like "the democrats are coming! We're all gonna lose all our rights!" doesn't tell us much about WHY you think this. I'd like to learn. what's wrong with this?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 17, 2008, 20:59:

You want to know exactly what has happened in the last 20 years - give me 5 minutes. I need to smoke another cigarette.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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el torcido says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:21:

smoke another what ?

don't know much about 'conomy

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:40:

a correlation, Tg?
what's the curiosity, about any correlation between those two items?
(I'm curious ;-))

'what does it mean, when one of you (colombians) tell another: YOU WERE NOT/ARE NOT. 'COLOMBIAN ENOUGH'?? jejeje..a mixture, I think, of stupidity mixed with a false sense of arrogance.. How 'colombian' do you have to be? to be 'colombian enough

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travelingirl says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:43:

Lesson number one, correlation does not equal causation.

I was just curious if the same people that wanted to take out the right to bear arms from the Bill of Rights like Huskie (or even interpret like slguy) would also want to insert another "right".

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Feb 17, 2008, 21:58:

Huskie seems to be a nice person
and, I don't own a gun.
But, still... let's leave it as it is.

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huskie says on Feb 18, 2008, 03:47:

I dont't know....but I do not like guns, do not like violence, do not like the fact that the right to bear arms is an excuse for those who say need to defend what is theirs, it was a good idea back over 200 years ago, but nowadays that right is being abused but those who think killing and maiming is a given right. It is just too easy, and there are too many deranged minds walking around who will go and get a gun, and start shooting at innocent people, many times because they have been in a war, have seen a lot of violence through their life and think nothing wrong with killing others, guns do not kill, it is people who kill, unfortunately this is the way things get done if some of these people disagree with another's point of view, IMHO
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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huskie says on Feb 18, 2008, 04:45:

A Reminder

THE BRADY LAW: PREVENTING CRIME AND SAVING LIVES

Introduction

Prior to the enactment of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Law) in 1993, most states did not require background checks of gun purchasers so there was no way for gun sellers to know whether customers were lying about their backgrounds. The Brady Law, which went into effect on February 28, 1994, changed this by requiring federally-licensed firearm dealers (FFLs) to check with law enforcement before selling a firearm. Since 1994, the Brady Law has stopped more than 600,000 criminals and other prohibited people from purchasing firearms from FFLs. Because the law only applies to FFLs, there are still many gun sales by unlicensed, so-called "private sellers," that are not subject to a background check.

When conducting the Brady background checks, law enforcement officials determine whether the buyer is prohibited from buying or possessing a firearm under the federal Gun Control Act or state law. Federal law prohibits the following categories of persons from buying or possessing firearms:

Those under indictment for, or convicted of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
Fugitives from justice;
Users of controlled substances;
Persons adjudicated as "mental defective" or committed to mental institutions;
Illegal aliens;
Individuals dishonorably discharged from the military;
Those who have renounced their United States citizenship;
Persons subject to a court order restraining a person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or the child of the intimate partner; or,
Those convicted of a domestic violence misdemeanor.
Additionally, it is unlawful for an FFL to sell a handgun to anyone under the age of 21, or a long gun to anyone under 18. While it is against the law for an FFL to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 years of age, the law allows individuals over the age of 18, but not yet 21, to possess handguns.

Implementation of the Brady Law

The Brady Law was implemented in two stages. The initial (or "interim") provisions took effect in February 1994. On November 30, 1998, the "permanent" provisions of Brady took effect with implementation of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

Interim Provisions
The interim provisions of the Brady Law applied only to handguns. States that had enacted legislation requiring background checks for handgun purchases prior to implementation of the Brady Law were exempt. At the time the interim provisions took effect, 18 states and the District of Columbia were exempt. Eventually, 27 states became exempt.[1]

In the non-exempt states, the Brady Law established a five-business day waiting period applicable to retail handgun sales and required local law enforcement agencies to make reasonable efforts – including record searches – to determine if a prospective purchaser was legally entitled take possession of a handgun.[2] These provisions were challenged, and in 1997 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the waiting period was constitutional but that the requirements imposed on local law enforcement violated the Tenth Amendment.[3] Despite the Court's ruling that they were not legally required to conduct the checks, almost all local law enforcement agencies continued to conduct them.

In addition to the waiting period and background check requirement, the Brady Law raised the cost of obtaining and renewing a gun dealer license – from $10 per year to $200 for a 3-year license and $90 for each three-year renewal.

Permanent Provisions and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)
On November 30, 1998, the permanent provisions of the Brady Law went into effect. While the interim provisions only applied to handguns, the permanent provisions added long gun sales to the background check requirement.

Under the permanent provisions, the FBI instituted the NICS to automate the background check process on sales of firearms by FFLs. The background check process varies depending on whether a state has agreed to be a point of contact (POC) for the checks.

States as POCs

In states that agree to conduct Brady background checks, the FFL contacts the state POC for a NICS check rather than contacting the FBI. A state POC is a state agency that agrees to conduct Brady background checks, including NICS checks, on prospective gun purchasers. Currently, 15 states serve as a full POC for NICS (checks on handguns and long guns) and 11 states serve as partial POC for NICS (states perform checks for handgun purchases; and FBI processes checks for long gun purchases). See the attached Appendix A from the Department of Justice.

A state POC will access the state's independent criminal history database as well as the NICS system. The NICS provides access to millions of criminal history records from all 50 states and the District of Columbia. A state's database typically contains not only the state's records which are part of the NICS databases, but also the state's records, including manual records, which are not part of the NICS. Many states also have access to records about people in the other prohibited categories, such as people who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or are under a domestic violence restraining order. Through programs such as the National Criminal History Improvement Program (NCHIP), federal authorities are working to improve NICS access to such records, but the availability of these records to the states is a very significant benefit of state participation in the system.

In Other States, FFLs Contact the FBI for NICS Checks

In states that have not agreed to serve as state POCs, the FFL contacts the NICS at the FBI, via a toll free telephone number, to request a background check. NICS is available for background checks 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except Thanksgiving and Christmas). The call is received at one of two call centers located in Moundsville, West Virginia, and Uniontown, Pennsylvania.

A call center customer service representative (CSR) enters the buyer's descriptive information into the NICS computer to initiate a search of the NICS databases. Once this information is entered and sent to NICS, one of two responses will be returned from NICS – proceed or delay – along with a NICS Transaction Number (NTN) for that particular transaction. The FBI gives a "delay" response if there is some information, which indicates that the prospective purchaser may be prohibited from receiving firearms. In those cases, the FBI has up to three business days to review records and determine whether a prospective purchaser is prohibited from receiving a firearm.

NICS Responses to Requests for Background Checks

Under the NICS, approximately 95 percent of all background checks are completed within two hours. However, it is critical that the FBI have additional time – three business days – to complete the background checks in the other 5 percent of cases. According to the FBI, "a purchaser whose NICS check takes more than 24 hours to complete is almost 20 times more likely to be a prohibited person than the average gun buyer."[4]

If an FFL does not receive a NICS denial within three business days after contacting the system, the Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer. These transactions are referred to as "default proceeds." Typically, "a default proceed involves a record showing a felony-related arrest...with no information to indicate whether the case was prosecuted and whether it resulted in a conviction."[5] Default proceeds occur "primarily because many states' automated criminal history records [do] not show the disposition (e.g., acquittals or convictions) of felony arrests, and manual efforts to find such information took longer than 3 business days."[6]

The FBI estimates that there were 200,000 default proceed transactions during the first two years (November 1998 through December 2000) the NICS system was in operation. However, because of regulations that restrict the retention of proceed records to no more than 6 months, the FBI has no way of knowing how many of the default proceed transactions involved a prohibited purchaser. A partial survey of records revealed the number to be at least 9,000.[7] In each instance, a law enforcement agent is required to try to retrieve the gun(s).

The Brady Law's Success

The Brady Law Prevents Criminals from Buying Guns
Since the Brady Law took effect, more than 600,000 gun sales have been stopped because the record check revealed a felony or other prohibiting condition in a prospective buyer's background.

The Brady Law Is Reducing Gun Trafficking in the United States
An analysis of crime gun trace data indicates that the Brady Law has significantly disrupted interstate gun trafficking from those states that did not conduct background checks prior to implementation of the Act to states that were conducting background checks.[8] For example, Ohio gun dealers were two-thirds less likely to be the source of crime guns recovered in Michigan purchased after the Brady Law took effect compared to crime guns purchased before its implementation. Similarly, Ohio guns were less likely to end up in crime in states as diverse as Missouri, New York and Maryland, and other traditional source states (e.g., Georgia, Kentucky and Mississippi) also were shown to be supplying fewer crime guns following enactment of the Brady Law.

Handgun Crime Declines and Lives Are Saved after the Brady Law Takes Effect
The number of murders fell each year from 1993 to 1999 (the last year for which the data is available). The drop in murders can be attributed to two factors: a reduction in the violent crime rate, and a reduction in the proportion of violent crimes committed with guns.

Robberies and assaults committed with guns are far more lethal than similar crimes committed without guns. For example, from 1994-1998, there was one death for every 130 robberies committed with firearms and one death for every 20 aggravated assaults committed with guns compared to one death for every 556 robberies and every 89 assaults that did not involve a gun. The percentage of violent crimes committed with firearms peaked in 1993 at 42.4% of robberies and 25.1% of aggravated assaults but fell steadily with implementation of Brady to 39.9% of robberies and 18.0% of aggravated assaults by 1999 according to an analysis of FBI crime data.

A Few Examples of Brady at Work

On April 13, 2000 a murder suspect was arrested in North Carolina as a result of a NICS check. The individual had previously assaulted a law enforcement officer and was considered to be armed and dangerous.

On April 2, 2000 an individual was prevented from buying a gun in Texas because the NICS check revealed that the buyer had previously been convicted of a felony in New Jersey and was still on probation. After the individual had been arrested, he stated that it was his intention to use the gun to kill his father in Texas and his mother and stepmother in New Jersey.

On November 30, 1999, an individual tried to purchase a firearm in Corinth, Mississippi. The NICS identified the individual as wanted by law enforcement for escaping from a prison in Georgia. When obtaining the individual's address from the gun dealer, the FBI notified the Georgia Department of Corrections which contacted Mississippi law enforcement and the individual was captured.

On November 26, 1999, an individual with two active warrants for a probation violation on charges of drug trafficking and unlawful use of a weapon attempted to purchase a firearm. Within ten minutes of the background check, the Clarksburg, West Virginia, Police Department obtained the individual's address and apprehended the subject.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

APPENDIX A: Point of Contact (POC) States and Territories

States in which the FBI Conducts NICS Checks for All Firearms Transactions

Alabama
Alaska
American Samoa
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
D.C.
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota
N. Mariana Islands
Ohio
Oklahoma
Puerto Rico
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Texas
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming

States that Act as the Point of Contact (POC) for All Firearms Transactions

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Illinois
Nevada
New Jersey
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Tennessee
Utah
Virginia

States that Act as a Partial Point of Contact (POC) for NICS Checks Florida Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement for all firearms, except licensees may contact the FBI for certain pawn transactions
Iowa Permit POC for handguns
FBI – long guns
Maryland Maryland State Police � handguns and assault weapons
FBI – long guns and pawn redemptions
Michigan Permit POC for handguns
FBI – long guns
Nebraska Permit POC for handguns
FBI – long guns
New Hampshire New Hampshire Department of Safety for handguns
FBI – long guns
North Carolina Permit POC for handguns
FBI – long guns
Washington Chief law enforcement officer for handguns without CPL
FBI – for handguns with CPL
FBI – long guns
Wisconsin Wisconsin Department of Justice for handguns
FBI – long guns

July 28, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Endnotes:

The 18 states that were exempt originally are: California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Virginia, and Wisconsin. In 1994, Colorado, Idaho, Minnesota, Tennessee and Utah were granted exemptions. New Hampshire and North Carolina followed in 1995, and Georgia and Washington in 1996.
Report of the National Task Force on Federal Legislation Imposing Reporting Requirements and Expectations on the Criminal Justice System. U.S. Department of Justice. Office of Justice Programs. July 2000. NCJ-183458.
Printz v. United States, 117 S. Ct. 2365 (1997).
Ibid 9.
Statement of David R. Loesch, Assistant Director in Charge, Criminal Justice Information Services Division. Federal Bureau of Investigations, before the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate. June 21, 2000. www.fbi.gov/congress/congress00/loesch062100.htm
Gun Control: Implementation of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. U.S. General Accounting Office. GAO/GGD/AIMD-00-64. February 2000.
"Thousands of Felons Manage to Buy Guns," USA Today, p. A1. March 12, 2001 (citing FBI estimates).
Weil, Douglas. Traffic Stop: How the Brady Act Disrupts Interstate Gun Trafficking. Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. www.bradycenter.org

Million Mom March • Brady Center • Legal Action Project • State Gun Laws
Stop The NRA Campaign • NRA Blacklist
All information ©2008 Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence Privacy Policy • Contact Us

Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringoloid says on Feb 18, 2008, 05:01:

you can't legislate sanity, huskie.

and more people are killed with knives than guns........do you want to get rid of knives too?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

slguy says on Feb 18, 2008, 06:10:

Just to be clear- I am a proponent of gun ownership. I would NEVER propose to disarm law-abiding US citizens, especially not today.

I simply think that using the 2nd Amendment as justification for gun ownership is ..selective reading.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 18, 2008, 06:48:

Of course, but today, very few abide by the law, unfortunately. And yes, my point being lots of deranged people out there.
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 10:21:

"if guns are banned, then you would not need an army to protect you, because nobody will be out to hurt you,"

Really? Is that why England is so safe now that guns are banned? Sorry, but it's time to come back to the real world. Gun violence has increased dramatically since the gun ban was put in place. The gangs and thugs in England operate with impunity because they know that the law abiding public has been disarmed. I can be somewhat liberal on many issues, but I am 100% opposed to disarming the public.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 10:25:

Dan, I am looking to get a Glock .40 for myself. I don't know why, buy I can't shoot a 9 to save my ass. I do best with .45s, but I want something with a bit smaller caliber.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 10:38:

I like the .45's too... so the .40 should be a good fit. Good luck in getting something that you'll enjoy using.

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 10:52:

I need to get my butt out to the range soon. I haven't been in forever. Few things are as relaxing as an afternoon at the range. Which size Glock 9 did you get?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 11:50:

I got a 19

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 11:58:

Nice. I am still debating whether to get a 22 or a 23. I don't plan on using this one for concealed carry, so I may opt for the standard size.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 12:56:

If I get anything else, I'm going to get something with a little larger handgrip. My hands are a little big for the 19 so if I can get something that has about an extra 1/4" would be nice... or, I can just get one of those magazine extentions that's usually for the smaller glocks.

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 13:28:

I have been told that magazine extensions cause a lot of problems with some pistols. I don't know if this is the case with the Glocks. I have large hands as well, so I will probably opt for a full size model 22 when I get the .40. I need to see when the next good gun show is so I look for a deal.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 13:59:

I was thinking of checking out different pistols at one of the local stores so I'll know what to look for when I'm in the market.

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 14:47:

I'm lucky in that I have lots of friends who are into shooting. I do live in Texas after all. Consequently, I am usually able to find a buddy with a particular model who will either loan it to me or let me shoot it with them at the range.

I will say that my wife doesn't like guns in the house and we are trying to negotiate that issue. I have gotten her to agree to at least go to the range with me. I need to dig up a .22 somewhere so she doesn't freak the first time she shoots a gun.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 15:10:

yeah... .22's are good for the ladies... a local store even has a pink one, I'm not sure of the type/model... it's horrible, I know. maybe it's something the wife would like...hahaha

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 15:13:

That is too funny. One of our company's smaller clients is a skeet/trap school that produces instructional DVDs. The owners/teachers are a couple in their late 50s to early 60s. The wife looks like your typical sweet grandma, but that lady is downright scary with a shotgun.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 15:17:

I wouldn't mind having a pink Walther P 22. Adorable.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

slguy says on Feb 18, 2008, 16:01:

so if they decline the pink cameraphone shot, you have options? ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 16:09:

I'm not understanding what you mean.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 16:14:

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

slguy says on Feb 18, 2008, 16:42:

You don't have a pink cellphone with a camera? Anyone that wants a pink walther oughta have a pink phone, too. With both, who could say no to your taking their picture?

I must be tired.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 16:58:

Haha
No, I don't have a cute lil' pink camera phone. :(
My cell phone actually doesn't even have a camera in it... plus it is just old school and silver. Nothing snazzy.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:04:

It's one of these, right?

Or

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

NataliaV says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:08:

Here in Georgia there is a town that actually requires that every homeowner own a gun. Crazy, right? However, crime in this particular town is extremely low especially burglary and property crime. What fool is going to try and break in to someone's home knowing that the homeowner may have a gun and the right to shoot?? I see nothing wrong with that.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:09:

sounds like my kind of place.

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:10:

Those look like they are in the same family as the Zack Morris phone! They were so cool back in the day.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

houstongal says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:11:

You're correct Natalia - that would be Kennessaw, GA , a suburb of Atlanta.

Culture is language and language is culture - Dr. Annamaria Napolitano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

NataliaV says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:13:

Right on HG. According to Wiki..., a criminologist and gun-control critic attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law.[3] Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:14:

I guess I have to dig out the 'Cellphone/Gun' combo, for Tg, that I gave to Mona
Maybe find it in pink, this time.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:21:

Thanks GS. Pink or purple would be great. Those bright red phones are pretty too.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:22:

I was looking up that Kennessaw, GA... I found another interesting article on the city's website..

They passed a resolution welcoming the military into their town after Berkeley, CA passed one saying that the military is unwelcome in that one...

Sounds like Kennessaw is a pretty nice place.

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:31:

If memory serves me correctly, it wasn't just the military that wasn't welcomed in Berkeley... it was the issue with military recruiting offices. I remember thinking it was one thing to ban them from college campus, but from the entire city?! Craziness. Give back your federal/state money you received if you are going to do that. No one is requiring kids to walk on over to the recruiting office, off campus.

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

slguy says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:35:

Berkeley has always been a bastion of conservatism, no? ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

0 funny, 0 helpful.

travelingirl says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:36:

HAHA
Yeah, I look forward to moving there one day. ;)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

MaFe says on Feb 18, 2008, 17:53:

Uhm Dan...I think not!!
I own a 357 Smith & wesson revolver
& a sig saur P226

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Feb 18, 2008, 19:17:

A good dog and a good pistol or shotgun are the best home defense.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

houstongal says on Feb 18, 2008, 19:24:

Dan - Kennesaw is just like any other big 'burb in ATL. If I remember correctly, you could be in compliance by having your gun in pieces within your home. But no one really enforces the law so there are lots of people living there that are noncompliant.

Culture is language and language is culture - Dr. Annamaria Napolitano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 19, 2008, 04:59:

I
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 19, 2008, 05:03:

haha... I've seen those huskie... some of them are pretty funny!

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 19, 2008, 05:08:

Yeah they are cute!!
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

MaFe says on Feb 19, 2008, 09:05:

Huskie those are great!

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

0 funny, 0 helpful.

msaucey says on Feb 19, 2008, 10:59:

I'd own a gun, but I'd probably use it every time someone walked in front of our house.... I'm sure I'd get the message across...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Feb 19, 2008, 16:12:

I shot myself in the foot once;
with a water gun

0 funny, 0 helpful.

msaucey says on Feb 19, 2008, 16:18:

That explains the webbed feet...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 19, 2008, 16:36:

Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 19, 2008, 16:40:

Sure it was you who shot yourself in the foot? or was it Elmer
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Feb 19, 2008, 17:00:

or maybe someone a little paranoid

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 19, 2008, 17:07:

or confused?

Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Feb 19, 2008, 19:24:

... the webbed feet?
well, yeah! Saucita.. it was a 'Scatter Water Gun'!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Feb 19, 2008, 19:31:

CAN ANYONE SAY:

...barrick (is that the name?) ... OBAMA?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Feb 19, 2008, 19:32:

Scotty, can you say:
............................."Hillary, will you please sit down and ... here's some scott tissue!"
jajj!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

huskie says on Feb 20, 2008, 08:00:

Maybe we can all learn a little by this

Cheers and Peace

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

0 funny, 0 helpful.