pointofview has left 135 comments

pointofview comments on Deportation - A True Story - does the penalty fit the crime

DEPORATION WITH GOOD ENDING The young woman (Luz Marina) who was the subject of this original post over one year ago was forced to leave the USA with her child (a US Citizen) returning to her country of origin Colombia.

She settled in Cartegena and her husband bought an apartment there for her residence. Her husband (a USA citizen) never adandoned his Colombian wife and child and after satisfing numerous requirements imposed by US Immigration she was allowed to re-enter the USA with her child and returned yesterday (December 31, 2005) to California in a legal status re-united with her husband.

Some things in life have a good ending but not many that involve the government(s) of any nation.

pointofview comments on Parque Lleres - link to six action short movies

HEAT I posted this link just to share the sights and sounds of Parque Lleres in Medellin because it's talked about so much on this site as a popular place for Thursday, Friday and Saturday night activites in the city of Medellin.

To the locals, the parque is known as "Silicone Parque" and the movie links do not do justice to the beautiful people (men and women) that you see in the parque each weekend.

I think that ELMO took these pictures and probably made the disgusting comments. Hunter and I are just weekend observers and "silicone contest" judges.

pointofview comments on Colombia right here in America.... Forget Travelling Down there....

MILTJ QUOTE:

"not only that, the colombians in america are whiter and "work-oriented", a major plus and incentive for the gringo/gringa trying to steer clear of the "darker" elements of colombian culture and society. you can enjoy the open air markets and panaderias without the prying eyes of certain "dark-minded" and "anti-work" locals."

Could you please explain this portion of your post as I am not sure I understand what it infers and/or conveys.

It almost seems like you are saying that Colombians in America are whiter and (more) work oriented than their Colombian brothers and sisters in Colombia. I assume that your term "darker" elements of Colombian culture refers to criminal or illegals activities but the assumption they don't exist outside Colombia is not founded in fact as we all know.

Prying eyes of certain "dark-mined" and "anti-work" locals can only be referring to the USA with its central government give away programs like food stamps, housing assistance, unemployment compensation and a list of hundreds of other non-working assistance programs. In Colombia if you don't work (in some form) you won't eat or have a roof over your head !!!!

Your theory falls on its face as the cost of travel and subsistance in the USA is much higher than Colombia so if you resided in a different part of the USA than those cities mentioned your airfare, hotels, transportation and meals would be substanially higher in the USA allowing the traveler to Colombia to recover in a short period of time the addition cost of transportation (airfare) to Colombia vs. other higher cost destinations including the USA.

The only Colombian culture preserved in the USA is behind the closed doors of the Colombian families that live their life in the USA the Colombian way (enjoying their heritage) to the greatest extent possible while trying to shield their family from the negative elements of the USA society.

The Colombians in Orlando, Miami, New York and New Jersy are all there for economic betterment and not quality of life. Each of them is counting the days when they can retire from work in the USA returning to Colombia, their friends, family, food and quality of live. I don't think you will find many Colombians retiring in the USA that have the choice of retiring in Colombia.

pointofview comments on Deportation - A True Story - does the penalty fit the crime

Sam - "a la orden!" - NOT Quote:

"I also think you are being somewhat disingenuous when you say the husband is being deported-can a US citizen be deported from his own country for breaking Immigration law?"

Did you read my first post ? I think I made this point quite clear !!

"4 years have passed and this happily married couple now has a 15 month old son (american citizen). Because they married in the USA in violation of the K-1 restrictions the family (as they are a unit) is being deported from the USA. Sure technically the son and husband are USA citizens and they can legally stay but this young woman may be deported without the ability to return to the USA for 10 years."

Well, I really don't beleive that you are the Prime Minister of Canada or any one of its elected political policy makers but rather you are just stating your opinion regarding Canada's policies. Yes, I read the stories with much interest and no I made no comment about the engineers earnings.

Finally, they made some mistakes and in hindsight if they discovered the problem soon enough the marriage could have been annulled if it violated the provisions of her K-1 visa. She could have then exited the country and showed "good faith" maybe (big maybe) allowing her to re-enter the USA with a new K-1 without being barred (assuming she had a good attorney to negoiate all this).

Her husband is not going to abandon his wife and son because she is being deported rather he is preparing to leave with her and his son whereever that journey takes him. No, her husband hasn't hitchhiked from Honduras to Canada but I am sure that he would if it would help his wife and son be able to stay in their home in California.

I guess by your comments you wouldn't make that trip - would you ?

pointofview comments on Deportation - A True Story - does the penalty fit the crime

OLD GRINGO - THANKS I read the article and I found that my tear glands that I thought had dried up with age are alive and working. These stories will bring tears to your eyes, increased heart beat and emotion to your voice.

I guess that if I was a judge hearing these immigration cases I would be fired in short order for ruling in favor for the immigrants almost every time.

Who wouldn't want to help another human being trying despirately to help themselves and their families. They are not asking for a hand out but rather just a helping hand more commonly known as opportunity. Sometimes just words of encouragement or understanding and not money are the nourshment that's needed.

This link is interesting: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/

pointofview comments on Deportation - A True Story - does the penalty fit the crime

Mr. Hollywood These people live in San Diego, California. This situation was introduced to me over a year ago by a mutual friend in Medellin. At first it seemed like it would be solveable simply requiring her to exit the country starting a K-3 process through normal channels for her to re-entry the USA but their attorney was unable to negotiate a settlement along those lines.

I aimed them at their US Senators and Congressman from their district but efforts by them to gain their assistance never brought any results. All that's left is the possibility of some last minute change of position by immigration reducing the exit time to something more reasonable. The only other alternative never pursued was taking the story public in the media but I have the feeling that this one story is just the tip of the iceberg (currently).

pointofview comments on Deportation - A True Story - does the penalty fit the crime

Tinto Yes the wife is being prosecuted but the penalty being imposed for the offense amounts to persecution. Many months after filing the change of status they were contacted by INS who pointed out the problem and they have exhausted their remedies in trying to correct their intial mistake.

Political asylum is not laughable for those people that are seeking it. This family does not want to return to Colombia and her husband has never even been to Colombia. Returning to Colombia might work as it may allow her family to obtain visa(s) with some form of resident status with a country (other than the USA) where her husband has a job opportunity available.

There is a solution to this situation but I am at a loss to know quite how to help them. I have tried to assist them politically in California but with no good results. The USA senators and congressmen are being swampted with these kind of cases since Homeland Security took over immigration.

None of this would have happened if they would have found an immigration attorney and invested $200 in legal advice before getting married.

pointofview comments on Deportation - A True Story - does the penalty fit the crime

WOW - SAM Dear Sam:

That's a response that I didn't expect !!!!

This young couple should have (but didn't) know the rules governing the K-1 Visa except the 90 day limitation and they should have (but didn't) exited the USA to get married.

Maybe you were born knowing all the laws, rules and regulations governing immigration but the rest of us weren't. There is not a day that goes by that I don't learn something new that I didn't know the day before and I fully expect to keep gaining knowledge until the day I die. Yes, all of us make mistakes including you for which we pay the price but in this case the price to pay so greatly exceeds the crime (if you can call it that) that it is not rationale.

The greater question (to me) becomes whether the deportation for this young woman for 10 years is a suitable penalty for her offense. If this penalty is not persecution then what the hell is it.

By your heartless response, you communicate that you are just part of the problem and not the solution. I am at a loss to understand your jump to the allegation that this husband, wife and 15 month son are "rich yanqui lawbreakers".

Perhaps you might suggest how they can find a "new home country" now that the USA is expelling them !!!

What are their options except seeking political asylum in another country ? The only options I see is returning to Colombia the country of birth for the wife or acquiring citizenship and/or residency in another country.

Perhaps you can offer a suggestion other then "TAKE A HIKE".


'a la orden!' - NOT

pointofview comments on PORQUE ESCRIBIMOS EN INGLES

Caslug - Excellent Post Quote:

"While I would agree that in America, for gov't and business, English should be the primary Langauge. Of course, Gov't office today in America generally are able to communicate in several Langauge, but English is still primary. In the past decade America is starting to embrace it's cultural diversity and it's becoming one of it's Business strenght. An American company that wants to do business in any foreign country today, knows that it can find qualify US workers that will speak that's langauge(spanish, chinese, korean, russian, etc.,). Why? because America is the land of immigrants, and those immigrants and their sons&daughter generally will speak both English&that langauge. Which in turn gives US business tremendous competitive advangtage & flexiblity. Of course, some European countries have long history of their citizen being able to speak multiple langauges(usually european langauges).

This board is an English board, everyone is welcome to participate in discussions. You can post in Spanish, but I would say you won't get as many reponse versus if you post in English. It's funny, I wish we get more colombian LIVING in colombia posting. It seems that most of the posters than post alot are colombians living abroad(elmo, litost, colx, desi, etc.,) obviously because their english is excellent. However, I would like to hear opinions and views from locals. But I do recognize that most local do not speak English.

BTW, as a business langauge(today) English is number one. However, in the near/distnant future I think that Americans business will need to start recognizing Chinese(madarin) and Spanish as growing in importance. Which is one the reasons why I'm trying to learn spanish."

To Caslug:

Your comments are well stated and founded in fact. Each day more and more USA industry, businesses and "CAPITAL" are moving offshore primarily to China with it huge supply of low cost productive labor and to other manufacturing bases elsewhere in Asia, Latin America, India and all over the world.

Americans in an effort to compete (in the world) will have to learn the languages and culture of their trading partners, suppliers and customers. Many USA world class companies already excell in this effort but the average citizen is living in the past which doesn't work anymore.

Last week while visiting a long time friend in Panama City we drove to his (8 year old) daughters school to pick her up from a special function. During the drive he explained that the school was a trilingual school that teaches three languages (spanish, english and chinese). I have known this little girl since she was born and every trip I witnessed her progress speaking english (to the very fluent state she speaks now) but I did not realize she was learning Chinese. She began talking to me in Chinese and translated back to english.

China has adopted the best of manufacuring technology from the USA, JAPAN and EUROPE. China is well along to eating our lunch in all aspects of technology, manufacturing and marketing. With a labor force so large that it will supply almost unlimited low cost labor for decades, China will be in the future what the USA was in the past.

We all better go to a trilingual school and learn spanish, english and chinese. Your childrens or grandchildrens jobs may be dependent upon their ability to speak Chinese or Spanish over time as these foreign economies continue to grow.

pointofview comments on HOME FOR SALE IN PERIERA, RISARALDA, COLOMBIA

Looks Good The pictures at Luisa14 look good !!

pointofview comments on Does anyone know..?

pointofview There is at least one fiduciary in Colombia that make (or services) USA dollar loans at rates of about 8-9% for Colombian properties to USA residents and resident aliens based on USA credit history. I will find out the name (and link) and inquire about other their policy regarding other countries. I think there activities are not just limited to USA residents.

Even if you could obtain a peso loan from a Colombian bank you wouldn't want it because the interest rate is going to be in the range of 15-18%

pointofview comments on Cedula Extranjería

Dan Dear Dan,

I remember that you must register immediately with the DAS after entering Colombia with your new visa after which you can apply for a cedula which you will probably never receive. When you apply for the cedula you will receive a tempory (CE) cedula that is good for a period of one year. You will be told that the perminent (CE) cedula (good for a year) will come in about 8 months. After going through this three times I never received but one perminent (CE) cedular in 2001 which was expired before I every received it. All my experience were with business visas in the DAS offices of Medellin. People in the DAS offices in Medellin have always been very helpful and polite.

pointofview comments on Buying Property in Colombia

Dan - Bring Money Dan:

Just make sure you bring plenty of money to Colombia when you move there because you won't make any while you live there unless you arrive with money, are completely bilingual and goddamn smart.

The Colombian people will certainly welcome you (and help you) as a foreign person but once you work your way into Colombian laws, regulations and rules you will rapidly find a bumpy road with many roadblocks for you as a foreigner.

Even the Colombian citizens are stuck with the same complicated red tape paper shuffling bullshit. Imagine a business society that requires almost every paper to be submitted in original with no photo or fax copies accepted. The Colombians are artful at operating within this framework but foreigners less so.

In the USA and most civilized countries billions (probably trillions) of dollars in transactions and business occur each and every day based upon faxes, email and telephone calls. Try to do anything in Colombia and you will run into a brick wall of people trying to justify their jobs exchanging mountains of papers mostly for nothing.

Colombians are streaming into Panama to immigrate for better job and/or business opportunities. A substantial amount of Colombian capital has always been (and is continuing to be) invested in Panama. The two largest Colombian construction companies have a presence in Panama.

Colombian capital for years has built a lot of residential and commerical buildings in Panama including the largest shopping mall in Panama (Unicentro on Ave Balboa) which is all enclosed and air conditioned occupied almost exclusively with Colombian buinesses staffed with mostly (60-70%) Colombian workers.

Early Monday mornings, flights from Bogota, Cali and Medellin, depart arriving in Panama with Colombian owners of Panama based businesses who spend the week managing their Panamanian businesses returning to Colombia the next weekend to spend with their families.

Capital finds it way to the markets of most opportunity. They do not exist in Colombia without great hurtles to jump.

Hunter (a regular Colombian-gringo) poster is well experienced in navigating the Colombian system of real estate investing and is well qualified to weigh in with his suggestions. In the meantime, I am busy trying to find original copies of documents for the paper shuffle people so they can justify their existance. Their final suggestion is that I not send faxes but rather scan all my documents and email them so they can print them which they say makes them originals (that's the mentality of the beast you will be dealing with).

pointofview comments on Buying Property in Colombia

Buying Property In Colombia - Think Twice Think twice about buying property in Colombia because laws, regulations and reality of Colombia are structured to discourage foreign investment. It's almost not worth the effort. Rents are cheaper than ownership costs anyway. Pick another country with immigrant friendly laws and regulations.

Technically, you could buy a property with no resident status or Colombian cedula but then try to obtain utilities in your own name. First you really need to obtain a resident status Colombian Visa, cedula and bank accounts in Colombia. Then you are in a position to obtain utility accounts in your own name and pay them through automatic debit from your Colombian bank accounts and pay your quarterly real estate tax bills.

Panama and Chile are examples of much more friendly environment(s) for foreign people and foreign investment.

Hunter, a regular poster, can walk you through all the requirements and knows all the hoops.

pointofview comments on DSL Internet Connection Medellin.

High Speed DSL It's available but very expensive !! Contact EPM as they can give you the prices and speeds for either Broadband or DSL. Check out their website for broadband options http://www.tripleplay.com.co

Looks like maximum speeds are 384/192 kbps for DSL and 256/128 kbps for broadband. Check EPM at http://www.epm.net.co/epmnet/ click SOBRE EPM.NET then click PLANES & TARIFAS PARA PERSONALES

I use 256/128 kbps in Medellin through broadband and 128/64 kbps through DSL but it takes two separate connections to keep me in business.

US$75/MO. buys you 384/192 kbps DSL !! You can probably buy higher speed connections through their business office but good luck as you better have residency status and a cedula to even open an account with them or do it from a friend. I would guess that 700 kbps would cost you US$150/MO. or more.

pointofview comments on Opening a Cafe/Bar in Medellin

Medellin Cafe/Bar Calle 10 between Cra 40 and Cra 38 !!!

pointofview comments on Any Experts on Colombian Women?

Experts on Colombian Women ?? THERE ARE NONE !!!! NO ONE CAN FIGURE THEM OUT !!!!

Thirteen years difference is "no difference" in the Colombian culture as women (in my battered opinion) are looking for mature partners. If the maturity comes in a younger man that certainly works too but 10 to 20 years difference is age is not out of the norm.

Elmo and I of course are more experienced on this issue of age difference.

pointofview comments on cell phone plans

Mr. Hollywood Call Bridging or Extender Mr. Hollywood:

This is correct but you can install a 4 or 8 port router in back of the broadband modem and hook up multiple VOIP devices (or computers) and use them all at once assuming you have adequate bandwidth. 128/64 kbps bandwidth will not support more than two devices at once and they need to be adjusted down to 30 kbps (bandwidth). I now use 256/128 kbps bandwidth and have no problems with more than one device.

You could use a phone from http://www.meritcall.com which has no monthly charge and only a 1.9 cents/minute charge to USA in addition to the other dedicated VOIP unit used in call bridging. That way you always have a spare phone to make outgoing calls if the other unit is busy.

All of this is legal (in Colombia) if you "do not" charge anyone to use this service or if others just share in the cost as a co-operative. If you charge for the usage as a "commerical business" then that's a felony in Colombia under its current reglatory intrepretation.

VOIPCOLOMBIA (a regular poster) knows the drill and could help someone get set up (installation).

pointofview comments on cell phone plans

Mr. Hollywood - VOIP Remote Access Your summary of requirements and costs are pretty close. The remote calls can be made from any phone (celular or otherwise). The broadboand service costs about US$40 but serves many other uses. Our local access line costs less (in Medellin).

The advantage of this system is that several people can share that VOIP line rather than just one (home bound) VOIP user. I use www.iconnecthere.com and two other VOIP providers that bill US$20/mo. for unlimited minutes. If your usage is much less you can get service from Vonage (as an example) for 500 minutes LD (USA & Canada) for US$13.00/mo. My work requires 20 hours a week (USA telephone time) so there is not another alternative for me that is better. Of course very low volume users can choose from other alternatives and options.

As to Ola everyone has there own experiences. I personally love Ola because I bought prepaid phones in December of 2003 which have worked well (for the most part). More importantly the prepaid credit in the phones when they were activated was CP$8.000 and that remains the same today. I have named my phones "Ola Gracias".

pointofview comments on cell phone plans

Call Bridging I use a Johnson Electronics (USA) RAD-AMP remote access device which works for this application in its default mode from the factory (no programming necessary) http://www.vikingelectronics.com/

These devices are expensive ($250 wholesale) but work very well without any problems. Less expensive alternatives can be found at the following website:

http://store.voxilla.com/customer/home.php?cat=250

http://store.voxilla.com/customer/product.php?productid=16144&cat=0&page=

The Sipura 3000 has this capability built in including the VOIP ATA and with this you are set to go.

All you do is connect a local access phone line to the call bridging port and dial the local access number from any phone to acess dialtone and place a long distance call on VOIP. It works flawlessly.

VOIPCOLOMBIA (from Bogota) can aim you in the right direction.

pointofview comments on Maria, Full of Grace Maria, Llena de Gracia

Maria Full of Grace The movie "Maria Full of Grace" has been a fast seller on the streets of Medellin for the last several weeks. CP$8.000 in VCD format and CP$12.000 in DVD format.

pointofview comments on cell phone plans

VOIP As I have posted before "call bridging" and VOIP are the answer to your question. I use a remote access device to access VOIP from my cell phone or any phone to make all my international calls. I pay US$20 per month for unlimited calling to USA and Canada which I can access from any phone anywhere (including my cell phone).

pointofview comments on

DVD Codes The USA code is region 1 and Colombia (to the best of my knowledge) is region 4 (same as Mexico). I lived in ignorance of this for five years until I bought some DVDs from Exito that were (of course) region 4 versions and wouldn't play on my USA region 1 DVD player. Up till that point my inventory had only been USA region 1 DVDS and pirated versions from Colombia. They can reprogram or change something in most DVDs to run the other regions but in the end I went back to Exito and purchased a new DVD player that would run all the regions (or at least 1 & 4). The pirated DVD copies are available before the new movies are even playing in Medellin for CP$8.000 for VCD or CP$12.000 for DVD. The quality of the DVDs are good and worth spending the extra CP$4.000. If you buy the pirated copies make sure you deal with the same vendor and get to know him (or her) well as they will exchange or refund any problem disks that you buy.

Make sure any DVD player you purchase will play region 1 and region 4 to avoid this problem. The pirated disks will play on a region 1 or region 4 DVD player.

pointofview comments on Treatment of Black tourists from USA or England

Litost Well I think my first post on this thread taking issue with some of your comments was not well founded so I will leave it at that. We might not agree with how many blacks live in Colombia or where they live but I beleive all of us see things from the right (same) perspective.

pointofview comments on Treatment of Black tourists from USA or England

Litost Quote:

Author: litost | Date: Thu, 09/09/2004 - 22:58 | login or register to post comments

pointofview:

"I recommend you take a look at who are the people flipping burgers, sweeping stores, and all the other lowest paying jobs in the developped countries... let me know what you see!

Litost:

If you think blacks or people of color are the only ones flipping burgers or working the low paying jobs in deloped countries, then you must be smoking something different. Neither race nor color cuts accross dicates who works this low paying jobs."

Only an estimated 2-3% of blacks in Colombia are able to financially obtain a higher education from a good Colombian university. The families and relatives of these students pool their financial resources together to send them to Medellin, Bogota or Cali (as an example) to obtain degrees at quality universities. Then with an education and degree in hand the apply for a job that they are qualified to perform and told they cannot he hired because they are black. I am not guessing but rather I have personally witnessed it.

You asked me to provide a little backgound of where I am coming from. I provide (and have for years) financial "tuition assistance" to black students (currently 48 students in three countries) and I see what comes out the other end. The racist treatment of blacks by numerous major public and private employers in Medellin makes me sick at my stomach. This treatment exists only because the government(s) (central and municipal) take no action to correct it and the blacks are not organized on there own to pursue an appropriate remedy.

At least in the developed countries the black would have an opportunity to pursue any career but in Medellin the gates are closed to most (not all) significant employment oppportunities but they are open to you (right).

I am not saying (and have never said) that this predjudice exists within the Colombian society in any of the lower strata economic level peoples maybe only increasing as you step up to the higher strata levels. Rather, what I have witnessed is outright employee rejection, for even level entry employment (of numerous black peoples), based soley on a persons color. That policy emulates from somewhere and it targets the blacks (probably others as well).

This is my last post on this subject (on this site) because I have already said probably too much because of my strong feelings on the subject. This is a deep seeded problem for the Colombians to straighten out and I am nobody just a foreign observer. All any of us can do is live our life treating all people equally as we would want to be treated ourselves.

pointofview comments on Treatment of Black tourists from USA or England

Good Post Caslug I am willing to surrender that there is plenty of "disputed" (but existing) information on the web to support the claims that the black population in Colombia is 5% or 4% but that estimate appears to rise from a Colombian census that many world organizations (previous post) have taken issue with.

Other agencies using broader terms defining Afro-Colombian have estimated the popoulation as high as 30%. Several other links post the total black population in Colombia at 6 to 8 million. As others have said it really does matter but I do not beleive the population of blacks in Colombia to be anywhere near the 5% (or 4%) figure that the Colombian government (or CIA) has advanced.

Further I believe that Caslug had posted the most accurate post on this thread (including mine) in his (or her) description of insitutionalized descrimination vs. personal descrimination. After giving this matter a lot more thought I feel that this description of insitutionalized descrimination may more accurately describe the primary descrimination that exists against blacks in Colombia combined to a lesser extent (still significant) with personal discrimination mainly in higher strata levels of Colombian society.

QUOTE:

The "ism"
Author: caslug | Date: Fri, 09/03/2004 - 16:41 | reply to this comment

If you look at history of ALL developed countries(USA, Europe, etc.,), during their developing stage there was racism, sexism, nationalism, etc., going on. Every country goes thru it. Colombia is a developing nation and has those same issues.

Why are some people hung up on percentage of blacks in colombia? What does that have to do with discrimanation, intolarant or preduces? Are we saying that if there was only 1% black then it's excuses the abuse? versus say 10% black? Of course not. There's two main type of discrimination (institutionalize and personal). There's really nothing you can do about the personal preducices OTHER than expose them to other people & culture. Hopefully, they'll come to recognize that you should really judge people one person at a time. BUT the institutionalize discrimantion are harder to combat. And Colombia is doing it's best i'm sure. But to say there's NO institionalize racism in ANY country is false. Institionalize racism can be very subtle, ie charging higher interest rate because you live in a black neighborhood, not calling you in for an interview because of your last name, etc.,

I don't see that colombia/colombians show blatant personal racism(name calling, refusing service, etc.,) toward foreigners(tourist) interestingly friends tell me they see that type racism in "developed" nations like UK(london), Austria(Munich), Germany(Berlin). I'm asian-american, and everyone I met in colombia was friendly & helpful. I actually feel that quality of services(restaurants, shops, etc.,) in colombia is better than US on the average. Of course this is because my money goes a long ways vs US.

For most of us, maybe we haven't had first hand knowledge of racism or sexism. But by meeting people from other background, culture, or nation we hear there exp and stories. Maybe I haven't exp the racism that elmo has because of his background, but i would believe that happen. Just read your history or other nation's history. And you'll see stuff that happens. Just because we didn't see something personally, doesn't mean it's not true. How many of us have gone to the moon? But we know it's happened.

pointofview comments on Treatment of Black tourists from USA or England

Colombia Black Population Real Count Colombia’s colour-bar

“But there aren’t any blacks in Colombia!� exclaimed a Colombian now living in New York after hearing the ethnologist Luz Riviera discuss her recent research into the country’s black indigenous communities. “What do you mean there aren’t? They’re over 22 percent of the population,� replied Riviera. “If there are, then they aren’t Colombians,� insisted the lady.
Luz Riviera tried to explain that the seven million blacks now living in the country are not only as Colombian as her, but that it was also highly likely that she had at least one black ancestor. “God save me from having a black in my family!,� the aggrieved woman replied.
As in other Latin American countries, racism towards blacks and indigenous peoples is a fact of life in Colombia. And just as in other countries of the region, victims of this racism tend to be “invisible� in the eyes of those who practise the discrimination.
Black slaves were introduced into what is now Colombia by the first Spanish conquistadors. From the very beginning they clustered in communities largely along the northern coast close to Cartagena, the principle “black port� of the era, as well as on the western Pacific coastline and the Caribbean archipelago of San Andrés and Providencia.
The “Afro-Colombians�–as they are officially known–also live in the country’s big and medium-sized cities, such as Cartagena, Buenaventura, Cali, Turbo, Barranquilla or Medellín, places where their segregation takes on all the features of marginalization. “In Cartagena, the only blacks who can enter certain clubs and restaurants are those who are serving. In Bogotá and Cali, most domestic servants are black, often dressed in pink uniforms,� explains Luz Riviera.
Over time, continued discrimination has led many to setting up home in rural, isolated areas, where they live in virtually self-sufficient communities working on small land-holdings or as employees for large farms. Some simply live on the fish they can catch.
Life in such communities is not much better than in other parts of the country. According to the Third report on the Human Rights Situation in Colombia, carried out for the Organization of American States and published in 1999, “a disproportionate number of blacks live in conditions of extreme poverty.� Afro-Colombians inhabit some of the most conflict-ridden parts of the country and earn incomes below the national per capita average. Illiteracy rates both in rural and urban areas remain extremely large, while black communities suffer high rates of infant mortality and serious diseases such as malaria, dengue fever, gastro-enteritis and lung infections. The report puts this down to a lack of drinking water, electricity and basic medical services.
Faced with their exclusion from the rest of society, many communities continue to co-operate closely with groups of indigenous peoples, with whom they first formed links under slavery when blacks were forced to work in gold and silver mines while Indians tilled the land. Luz Riviera has studied these inter-ethnic relations in an isolated village on the banks of the Guayabero river in the region of Serranía del Baudó.
“Thirty or so black families living there have created ritual family ties with indigenous families living deeper in the jungle. What frequently happens is that an indigenous person asks a black man to be the godfather of his son, sealing a relation of compadrazgo [joint fatherhood] which helps make the lives of both families somewhat easier in light of the discrimination both suffer.�

http://www.cidh.org/countryrep/Colom99en/chapter-11.htm

2. Domestic Legal Provisions

8. Article 2 of the Constitution of Colombia of 1991 in its second paragraph declares:

The authorities of the Republic exist to protect the lives, honor, property, beliefs and other rights and liberties of all persons residing in Colombia and to ensure compliance with the social obligations of the State and private persons.

9. Article 5 states:

The State recognizes, without any discrimination, the primacy of the inalienable rights of human beings and supports the family as the basic institution of society.

10. Article 7 states:

The State recognizes and protects the cultural and ethnic diversity of the Colombian nation.

11. Article 8 holds:

It is the obligation of the State and individuals to protect the cultural and natural wealth of the Nation.

12. Article 10 provides:

Spanish is the official language of Colombia. The languages and dialects of the different ethnic groups are also official in their territories. The education provided to communities with their own linguistic traditions will be bilingual.

13. Article 13 states:

All persons born free and equal before the law, will receive the same treatment and protection from the authorities and will enjoy the same rights, freedoms and opportunities without discrimination of any kind on the basis of sex, race, national origin, or family language, religion, political or philosophical opinion.

14. Article 17 asserts:

Slavery, servitude and the sale of human beings are prohibited in all their forms.

15. Transitory Article 55 says:

During the two years subsequent to the date on which the Constitution enters into force, the Congress will issue, after study by a special commission to be created by the government a law which grants to the black communities that have occupied undeveloped lands in the rural riparian areas alongside the rivers of the Cuenca and Pacific, in conformity with their traditional systems for production, the right to own as collective property those areas which the law designates.

Representatives elected by the involved communities will participate in the special commission established in the preceding paragraph.

The properties recognized in this manner will be inalienable, pursuant to the provisions of the law.

The same law will establish mechanisms for the protection of the cultural identity and the rights of these communities and for the support of their economic and social development.

16. Finally, in order to implement Transitory Article 55, Congress enacted Law 70/93 "Law of Black Communities", which will be examined more fully below.

C. NEGROES IN COLOMBIA – 1998

17. Maurice Glele – Ahanhanzo, Special Rapporteur of the United Nations on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance, in his 1997 report entitled "Implementation of the Programme of Action for the Third Decade to Combat Racism and Racial Discrimination" estimates that of a national population, persons of African or mixed African descent total six million individuals and constitute about 16 percent of the whole Colombian population.( 5 ) Afro-Colombians, a term employed more and more frequently by black or partly black Colombians themselves, live primarily along the Pacific and Atlantic coasts and form majorities or sizeable minorities in a number of large and medium sized cities, including Cartagena, Buenaventura, Cali, Turbo, Barranquilla, Medellín and Quibdó.( 6 )

18. The Colombian Government has published, on the basis of a 1993 census, a much smaller estimate of the number of black and native Colombians—some 930,000 or 2.75 percent of the whole. In its Action Plan for the Afro-Colombian and Indigenous Population, a Government agency reported that together these populations constitute roughly 3.2 percent of the national population—some 1.1 million persons in all. Finally, the consulting group, Cowater International Inc., in a 1996 study commissioned by the Inter-American Development Bank, using a broader definition of the term afro-Colombian, estimated that black Colombians constitute some 30 percent of the national population. ( 7 )

D. DISCRIMINATION

19. Irrespective of the number of persons of African descent, partial or pure blooded, it is beyond dispute that black and mestizo black persons form the largest minority group in the Colombian nation. Furthermore, there has been in recent years a most welcome recognition by the State at all levels, and by and large, by society as a whole that afro-Colombians have suffered racial discrimination and that such discrimination persists to the present.( 8 ) In fairness, however it should be pointed out that such discrimination does not constitute a conscious policy of the State.

20. During its on-site visit to Colombia in December, 1997 the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (the "Commission," the "IACHR" or the "Inter-American Commission") heard numerous testimonies evidencing active and passive discrimination by State and private actors alike. It is important to point out that complaints made by black Colombian citizens and corroborated in various sociological studies in recent years, refer to both a pattern of official as well as unofficial, discrimination. With respect to the latter, offensive stereotypes in the media, the arts and popular culture tend to perpetuate negative attitudes towards blacks and these often unconscious views are commonly reflected in public policy when governments at all levels distribute limited State resources. ( 9 )

E. SOCIO-ECONOMIC CONDITIONS

21. Hence, the Commission has received ample documentation demonstrating that black Colombians have, perhaps with the exception of the Colombian indigenous population, the lowest per capita income, extremely high rates of illiteracy in both urban and rural areas, very high indices of infant mortality and serious diseases including malaria, dengue fever and gastrointestinal and respiratory infections. The causes of this situation include the frequent lack of potable water, electricity and medical facilities. ( 10 )

22. The employment picture for black Colombians is likewise bleak. Urban blacks, the majority of afro-Colombians, far more often find themselves in domestic service, day work construction job and street vendor activities in the so-called informal sector than their white fellow citizens.

23. In rural areas black Colombians frequently labor on tiny farms or as workers on large ranches and plantations. Yeoman fishing on a subsistence level also provides employment to a considerable number of blacks. ( 11 )

24. In contrast with this reality, there is a marked dearth of black Colombians in middle and high level government and private sector positions. Blacks are rarely commissioned as officers in the military forces, and aside from some cities and towns where they enjoy an electoral majority they are underrepresented in elected and appointed positions in government. A similar generalization can be made regarding the paucity of blacks in other branches of government as well as the civil and diplomatic services. It has also been observed that the Catholic Church, the predominant religion in Colombia, also has relatively few priests and nuns of color and fewer yet within the ecclesiastical hierarchy. The same phenomenon is observed in business and the media where the absence of blacks is the general rule. White collar jobs in the liberal professions of medicine, dentistry, law, the natural and social sciences and education at all levels, have historically been closed to blacks except the lucky and persistent few.( 12 )

25. Not surprisingly, government investment in infrastructure, health, education, housing and general welfare have been very low in areas inhabited primarily by afro-Colombians.

F. VIOLENCE AND BLACK COLOMBIANS

26. Large numbers of afro-Colombians reside in some of the most conflictive areas of the national territory. While this subject has been examined at length in previous Chapters of this Report, it is safe to generalize that terror and violence as practiced by all of the contending forces in Colombia have taken their greatest toll on the Colombians living in extreme poverty—a disproportionate number of whom are black citizens. For example, the Commission in its visit to Turbo and Apartadó, in the Urabá region of the Department of Antioquia, learned of the ferocious consequences of the struggle among armed dissident groups, mainly the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Fuerzas Revolucionarias Armadas de Colombia - "FARC"), and paramilitaries commanded by the Castaños as well as the active and at times passive role of the Army in repressing local populations. The Commission was able to observe that the majority of the internally displaced persons populations residing in shelters and camps in the area consisted of black persons.

27. The Commission has also been told of instances of apparent "social cleansing" in which black prostitutes and street gamines have been assassinated. In some of these incidents, the victims may have been targeted, at least in part, on the basis of their color.

G. GOVERNMENT ACTION

28. In adopting the 1991 Constitution, and in particular, in sanctioning Transitory Article 55, cited above, the Colombian State took a positive step to begin redressing the historical ill-treatment of black persons in Colombia. In 1993, Congress enacted and the Executive signed Law 70/93 which established within its National Development Plan the Plan for Afro-Colombian Development (the "Plan").

29. One of the most salient features of Law 70/93 includes the creation of a special constituency to assure two seats in the National Congress to black communities. In addition, the Law recognizes the right of black communities to collective ownership of some riparian lands on the Pacific coast. Further, the Law recognizes subsoil rights thereon and the need to provide further resources to fulfill the constitutional guarantee of education for all citizens.

30. To implement the Plan, Law 70/93 contemplates the formation of autonomous territorial planning councils and regional assemblies. Community involvement and participation by those whose interests are at stake are important ingredients in the Plan. Thus, community organizations have the possibility of making their views heard and taken into account through this arrangement.

31. While there has been criticism of the definition of an afro-Colombian as provided in the Plan, thereby explaining perhaps the discrepancies in the demographic data referred to earlier in this chapter, greater discontent stems from its slow implementation and its as yet negligible impact on the lives of those intended to benefit from the Law.

32. Be that as it may, the formal recognition of centuries-old injustices and the establishment of mechanisms to fix goals and monitor fulfillment of the Plan are singularly important steps in a process. Even the most optimistic recognize that this process includes very ambitious goals that will require a long time to realize.

33. The State has informed the Commission that the National Development Plan 1998-2002 proposed by the Government of President Pastrana provides for special consideration of the needs of the black communities. According to the State, the efforts of the Government will be directed toward overcoming the obstacles that impede the full integration of the members of these communities into Colombian national life. They will also be directed at those obstacles that prevent the black communities from raising their standard of living.

H. RECOMMENDATIONS

Based on the foregoing, the Commission makes the following recommendations to the Colombian State:

The State should accelerate the implementation of the Afro-Colombian Development Plan, particularly in the demarcation of collective community lands with the corresponding protection of the timber, flora, fauna and mineral resources found therein.

The State should enact a law defining and providing legal remedies for acts of public and private racial discrimination.

The State should enhance, among the general population and among those in public service, particularly in the police and Military Forces, awareness of racism and its effects and to provide necessary educational programs and training for this purpose.

The State should take special measures to assure equal access to positions in public service to persons of all complexions.

The State should assign more fairly State resources to areas populated primarily by black Colombians with emphasis on such basic goods and services as roads, potable water systems, electrical power, health facilities and educational institutions.

The State should vigorously investigate, prosecute and punish those, who for racial motives, commit crimes against persons of color.

Here is another link worth reading that investigates and discusses the race issues in Colombia.

http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/TestFrame/7423a67b0d09c20d802566d3003ade9c?Opendocument

COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
Fifty-third session
Item 13 of the provisional agenda


IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROGRAMME OF ACTION FOR
THE THIRD DECADE TO COMBAT RACISM AND
RACIAL DISCRIMINATION


Report by Mr. Maurice Glèlè-Ahanhanzo, Special Rapporteur on
contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination,
xenophobia and related intolerance

Addendum

Mission to Colombia

pointofview comments on Treatment of Black tourists from USA or England

Litost and Desi Desi,

The last person I would disagree with on this site is you. I will post the statisical information upon which I rely upon when stating that the black population of Colombia is much greater than 5% (or 4%).

Litost,

My experiences are in Medellin for the past 5 1/2 years having lived here and owning a home. I have several close black friends here in Medellin including a black girlfriend all of which have high quality university educations here in Medellin. I have seen their personal mistreatment after they graduated and began seeking employment in Medellin. I have been close enough to the tears and emotional trama of employment rejection based upon skin color to form an opinion of where this is coming from.

Most all of my other friends are upper strata business people of whom I have asked countless questions and inquiries about treatment of black people in employment placement. I am damn sure of what I am talking about as it applies to Medellin.

I am not a foreign liberal or black advocate but rather a person who has lived under the USA flag in a community of 60% blacks, 18% puerto ricans and dominicans for six years and was treated very well despite my minority race representation so I only want to give back the same (even if I live in Colombia).

As I add employees in Colombian you can be sure that black people will be given preference. As to Choco I have been there (Quibdo) and nobody cooked me in their sopa de carne as I am alive and well. Sure the municipal political people from that region are black and some are not honest.

I absolutely would never beleive that Colombia's black population is 5% especially if the CIA say so but the ball is in my court to prove otherwise.

pointofview comments on Treatment of Black tourists from USA or England

Prejudice Alive & Well - Colombia I don't always agree with Elmo's descriptions and language but I do agree with his portrail of racial predjudice in Colombia. The comments by Johncotrane are accurate and true.

Litost: I don't know what planet you live on (certainly not Colombia) with your mis-statements about Colombia's black population only representing 5% of total Colomia population (absolutely false and inaccurate). You go on further to mis-state that the blacks are all concentrated (live) in specific areas away from the big cities. What a bunch of bullshit. Go back and study your facts.

ColombianoX: Yes Colombia is geographically and legally one country but with distinct classes of separate peoples some being excluded from fully participating in the economic pie for one reason or another. It's great if you are able (because of color or families economic status) to participate but not so good if you are not. The Colombia you know is probably more accomodating that the black Colombian knows where he or she is turned away from the same opportunities and employment doors that are closed to them but open to YOU.

There are other posts from Colombians that simply (for their answer) sweep this subject under the rug as if it doesn't exist. The truth is something different and it's ugly. Colombia racism is the USA of the 40s, 50s and 60s in the major cities of Bogota and Medellin. The central and municipal government(s) do not enforce the equal opportunity and equal treatment laws within Colombia. The racial prejudice doesn't come from the lower economic (strata) levels but rather from the higher strata levels that control employment policies and government at the highest levels of influence. I predict that there will be a major legal "class action" lawsuit filed by the black people of Colombia. Human rights advocates from many places (especially Colombia) are seriously pursuing this situation.

Just look around you for black faces in positions of power or management in Colombia in the central government or large employers. Call Conavi and Metro in Medellin and ask them how many blacks they employ. It's just the tip of the iceberg and the problem is too big to put under the rug. The racism is more like economic oppression as the uppper strata people would like to push the black people back to Choco, the caribbean or the sea hiring them as domestic help or construction labors. The lower economic levels are more accepting with the blacks as they share the same economic plight.

Getting back to the subject, Elmo is right that a black skinned foreign person reasonably well dressed will be received and treated well in Colombia (for the most part) but not every door will be open. I wasted a lot of my life learning that the color of ones skin has no bearing on their abilities, their honesty, their character and so forth. I am sure that everyone on this site feels the same or should. Any Colombian with racial prejudice views couldn't take them very far outside Colombia as they would wash very well in (Panama as an example).

pointofview comments on My Colombian Girlfriend

fennell01 Dear Fennell:

I enjoy reading your posts but you are either very young or have had this more substanial standard of living only a short time. First of all any mature couple looks forward to 5 hours of separation during the day and needs that in there life. Your girlfriend (or wife) high point of the day would be when you leave for 5 hours and she can more fully relax, make her personal phone calls and email.

If you think that "any" quality woman would be so overwelmed by your house that she would stay with you forever, then I think you have never been married or had a serious relationship with any woman. Money and material things do not convert any person (man or woman) to blind servitude. It does not replace love, mutual respect, committment and the unconditional feelings that two people have with each other that binds them together (for whatever duration that the feelings may exist). The truth is there is probably more love in your girlfriends little apartment than you might ever hope would exist in your big house. Quit dwelling on your material assets and start thinking about what you are saying and doing because you are living and thinking in dream world. If you are serious about trying this then find a Colombian woman with a US Visa, well traveled, speaks fluent english and invite her for a visit. It is just as easy to find that woman than another.

I went through all this (more than once) years ago to find out that women (despite what you think) have a mind of their own. My first Colombian girlfriend turned her back on a lot more than you are talking about so that she could live her dreams of self importance. She wanted to work and earn her own money with her own hands and mind and not receive US$2,000 a month from me and walked away from that. Her kitchens (more than one) were bigger than your house. We are the best of friends and still see each other all the time sharing the responsibilities of her Colombian son (my step-son). By the way she still has all the money I shared with her and will graduate this year with a degree in in education from a USA University and the tools enabling her to pursue all her dreams. More importantly she has my respect and continuing committment to make it happen for her even through she doesn't live in my fancy house. She doesn't need a man with a fancy house to make things happen for her, she's paisa and walking over any obstructions that get in her way to make things happen.

You can't always choose who you fall in love with but sometimes it makes more sense to think about where you want to be (man or woman) after the process is over before you begin the selection and sorting. Unfortunate as it is, not everyone of us is the same, with the same goals, mindset and values. We all beat to a different drummer moving different directions with different ideas other wise the divorce rate wouldn't be 60% in the USA.

My girlfriends stated goal from the beginning of our relationship was to obtain a good job and career in the USA and mine was to live in Colombia. Neither of us was listening that well to each other. I live in Colombia and she lives in the USA with both of us pursing the goals we told each other from the beginning (5 1/2 years ago).

pointofview comments on The thing about Americans is that....

China Growth You need to look at economic growth as China is growing faster than any economy on earth at a 8% growth rate. What is the USA, Japan and Germany growing at as all three have economic promblems at this time. They are trying to slow China's growth rate because of the impact on world commodity prices. Why do you think the price of steel has doubled and oil is soaring. It's not because of USA demand but China ever increasing demand. China is sucking jobs from all over the world including Colombia. Nothing new in heavy manufacturing plants is being built in the USA, refining plants are now all built offshore, the Boeing Company was once almost a monopoly in commerical aircraft production being reduced to a defense contractor with a smaller presence in the commercial aircraft market.

The USA government and labor (in their wisdom) has driven industry offshore never to return. The China of today is like the USA after the turn of the last century. I imagine the european industrial empires said that little USA would never amount to anything big. If anyone thinks that all they produce in China is plastic trinkets, dolls and toys you better take another look at Wal-Mart as about 70% of their product line comes from China. China manufacturers everything you can imagine except commercial airplanes and I am sure that's coming next.

Money from all over the world is pouring in to China (from Asia, USA, Japan and Europe) ramping up production of everything imaginable. Jobs from everywhere worldwide are being displaced including Colombia (textile industry as an example).

The problem is that there is no fix and everyones job in manufacturing (in the USA) is at risk. I can hire competent bilingual employees in Colombia and Panama for less than the cost of just providing health coverage for employees in the USA.

A lot more people should have listened to Ross Perot but he was ahead of his time. The sucking sound you hear now is not just our jobs but rather it's also our wealth. Costs in the USA are moving higer at a time that wages will move lower and their will be some unhappy campers in the streets when the shit hits the fan.

There is a 2.000.000.000 lb gorilla with one foot (one leg) in the door and it's too late to close it. Check China's trade surplus and the growing trade deficit of the USA.

pointofview comments on The thing about Americans is that....

fennell01 The USA's deep pockets will be more empty in 20 years with the current rate of cash burn and job/economic loss occurring. Maybe China will bail them out. Who do you think is buying all our US treasury debt ?

As far as pollution I guess the USA won't have a problem as they will have lost all their industry. Besides China and Russia will export their pollution to Alaska, Canada and the eastern USA mainland just like West Africa exports their pollution throughout the Atlantic and caribbean even to the shores of the USA mainland (global wind movements).

pointofview comments on The thing about Americans is that....

PRMello29 HELLO The USA is my country of birth but I don't own it and I certainly hope that it doesn't own me although sometimes I feel like it claims me as it's property. Just because I was born in the USA I don't have to agree with and support everything it's political leaders may choose to do. The USA is still (marginally) a democracy allowing voices of dessent and that's not bashing by my definition. Maybe Homeland Security will take away those rights too.

I have to go home as this has given me a headache. You sound like a well meaning young man but you are part of the problem in the USA. Just evidence of why the USA the problems in the world community. You comments are not a solution but rather part of the problem.

pointofview comments on The thing about Americans is that....

PRMello29 HELLO Is there something wrong with a foreign person keeping their life long (for generations) traditions and religions when they immigrate to the USA ? Are people the property of their governments or should they be free to lawfully change their place of residence in pursuit of a better or worse life.

My grandparents immigrated to the USA but it had a different sign up at that time saying "OPEN" now the gate is locked and the sign says "CLOSED".

I am glad you are not working for the INS or Homeland Security or all of us would be turned away at the USA border. Don't worry at the current rate of growth China will buy the USA in twenty more years and it will be a subsitary.

pointofview comments on The thing about Americans is that....

PRMello29 HELLO So you are a traditional american living with untraditional american parents who, if they are naturalized, are traditional americans.

Hmmm, isn't Colombia in the armericas. Lets see north america, central america, south america and latin america. There sure is a lot of americas and I wonder if these people that live there are all american ?

pointofview comments on The thing about Americans is that....

PRMello29 HELLO QUOTE:

"I've recently been angered by a post on another website where a Colombian bashed the United States and I don't understand why. He says we're intolerant of other cultures (it's absolutely true) and are trying to take over the world (it's absolutely true), but by saying this it's obvious he's the ignorant one (NOT). Why do people who have never been to the US do this?"

WHO IS THE IGNORANT ONE ????

QUOTE:

"59% of the people living in the Miami Metro area are not "American" in the traditional sense."

NOT AMERICAN IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE ?????? Please explain that comment to my simple mind ... How are the other 41% American in the traditional sense ???????

The USA has a military presence in over 70 countries in the world (I think it's more than that maybe 90) and is buzy telling everyone what to do and how to do it.

pointofview comments on Colombia’s social class

Yes, Edgar and Elmo on the prowl.

pointofview comments on Colombia’s social class

He is bared from some restura He is barred from some resturants and clubs in Medellin as well which is probably why he decided to go to the USA and be a millionaire.

It's a good story Rico !!! It gives hope !!!

pointofview comments on Colombia’s social class

ColombianoX la Defensor I can't help it if the president likes women !!! But non of them are black !!! Seriously, I work with one of those women you refer to and she is brillant and extremely capable (of course she's a paisa from Medellin). I have met a number of very capable well educated business women in Colombia participating in Colombian business management at every level.

At least my country quit hanging the blacks 100 years ago but Colombia still is (economically). Even the USA fought the civil war in which almost 1,000,000 soldiers died or were wounded to settle the issue of slavery. How much blood has been spilled in Colombia defending the rights of blacks ? The only accomodation in Colombia I see for blacks is the law allowing caribbean people (almost totally black) and citizens from other latin american countries (all by birth) to gain resident status and Colombian citizenship within one year (accelerated) as compared to the five years required of other foreign immigrants.

There may be more racist societies in the Americans than Colombia but I have never visited them. The racist behavior is not material in the lower strata levels but in the larger companies (employers) and upper strata levels of Colombia a black is outcast in Medellin and Bogota (as examples) finding employment mostly as labors and domestic help. Sure there are exceptions but generally speaking the blacks are not equally treated.

I have seen enough employment rejection in Medellin because of skin color to know what's going on. Your president could be an example by appointing a black face to his cabinet or enforce the non discrimination laws that already exist in Colombia. You wouldn't enjoy being a black face sitting in front of a white paisa woman telling you that you are over qualified for the job but the company she represents (a major Colombian bank) does hire black people in Medellin, however, they are opening a branch soon in Quibdo and she could apply for that position.

I enjoyed your post regarding the "rags to riches" real life stories and would enjoy hearing more of them from everyone as they surface.

pointofview comments on My cousin was sent back to Colombia, and Couldn't get in US

That Sucks She and her finance should travel to the US Embassy today demanding to see the US Ambassador or his/her administrative assistant. He needs to contact his US Senator and Congressman from his district and ask for their assistance. He needs to press all the buttons. He is serving his country laying his life on the line so they need to listen to him. It wouldn't be unusal to be carrying your birth certificate during international travel. It was just part of her travel documents in case someone demanded proof of place of birth or residence for her or her daughter.

If it was me I would beat the doors of the Embasssy down demanding they right this obvious injustice. If nothing else maybe they can get the US Visas reissued.

pointofview comments on My cousin was sent back to Colombia, and Couldn't get in US

Mother of 2 Your cousin should have never mentioned marriage in her interview but that's water under the bridge. She could have married in the USA and filed a change of status but she cannot be telling immigration at the point of entry she is coming to USA to get married as that requires a K-1 Visa. He can't marry her in Colombia without a Colombian Marriage Visa or resident status. If I was in that position I would go to the US Embassy and specifically talk to the US Ambassador (pleading my case) claiming a big misunderstanding.

If all of that failed I would check out the laws of Panama or Ecuador and see if they could be married there returning to the US Embassy in Bogota to obtain a USA resident card for his new wife which when issued would allow her to enter the USA. It's not a good story and the fix will take a lot time and money to repair. If he marries her (anywhere) he will be able to bring her (evidentually) to the USA even if he is stationed in Iraq. Actually, the fact that he is serving in the military in Iraq might get his case or situation some more needed attention and assitance to expedite it.

I think Utopia Cowboy is the person to communicate with regarding this matter.

pointofview comments on IT Work without spanish

Utopia Cowboy Quote:

"Marry a woman who only speaks Spanish and does not speak any English. You gotta be passionate about it then!"

This is a receipe for an excellant relationship until the time you both find a common language to communicate with. jajajjajajajajaj

pointofview comments on Colombia’s social class

Tinto Good Question I would be interested in the Colombian response to your question. I have asked it and been told each time that it couldn't and hasn't happened in Colombians class society. I am sure to some degree there must be stories and I too would like to hear them. I think the capital concentration (big capital) is so closely controlled by so few people (families) any good idea requiring financing or capital is probably pirated by the rich or more well to do.

Colin Powell wouldn't have had a chance in Colombia (except to serve in the Military). Maybe a Colombian can tell us of one black face that the president of Colombia has appointed in his cabinet. Colin Powell might have had difficultity finding a good job in the private sector in Colombia because he's black. Cali has a black or mixed race mayor elected by the people so maybe there is hope.

pointofview comments on Colombia’s social class

Villdkatta Poor to Middle Class I think that the answer to that question is that it is impossible and certainly rare that any Colombian could move more than one class (two at the most) in their lifetime. I have asked that question more than once to higher strata friends and that's always the answer I receive. People from lower strata level do not have the economic resources, support and the education to advance beyond (in most cases) one more level (two is very rare I'm told). Your skin color in large part determines your social placement, acceptance, job and economic opportunities certainly in Medellin and Bogota (much to my disgust).

In regards to education I guess that I see plenty of middle to lower strata people with a university education but the upper strata levels will have sent many of their children off to USA or other foreign schools (universities or colleges) of higher learning returning to Colombia with a "world class" education giving them a big leg up with their competition. Sure the Colombian universities are good but no subsitute for receiving your education in english (the international language of business).

Sometimes just an education itself is not enough you need a little help from your family, friends and government and in Colombia it may exist for lower to middle strata people but in very basic and limited forms.

I recently met a 24 year old professional real estate broker from a upper strata family that makes well in excess of US$100,000 a year but he's very very very good and owns his own real estate brokerage firm. USA university educated, speaks about four languages fluently and has all the connections at every level. He would survive and prosper in NYC so being on his own turf is a peice of cake.

If you are a foreign citizen the greatest gift you could give that child is to adopt him (if the parents would consent) as it would give him another citizenship and passport to economic freedom if he ever wanted the option. Another option is placing him perhaps in Panama for his higher education but with residence status that could lead to Panamanian citizenship and passpost increasing his chances of a VISA approval for developed countries.

God bless you for what you are doing for this boy and you will see your reward in his face forever.

pointofview comments on Colombia’s social class

CP$15.000 Dear Mr. Hollywood:

In Medellin I wish it was that easy to come home with 15.000 in a day. Six years ago I saw my ex-girlfriend's father lose his business (and the adjoining business) to a car bomb that destroyed both businesses reducing him almost overnight (within a few months) to driving a taxicab to make a little money to meeting the families living expenses. On average after paying for the rental of the taxi, filling it with gas and having it washed he would return home fourteen hours later with 25.000 pesos in his pocket for his day's effort.

He lost everything economically but preserved and saved the best and most valuable thing he had (his family) who rose to the occassion and all pitched in to make ends meet. That's reality in Colombia as you already know probably better than me.

pointofview comments on My Colombian Girlfriend

fennell01 Thanks for taking my responses the right way as they were (right or wrong) from my heart. Find out where her bank account is and check out www.viamericas.com which can do direct transfers right into her account. Also check other posts on this subject because it has been well discussed by some other more creative people that me. Small sums of money are not too bad by viamericas but larger sums get more pricey in terms of cost. You can wire transfer (larger sums) money to her but it's an envolved process in her retriving it and getting it deposited. Some people use Western Union or other services but sending her a check drawn on a USA bank won't work in her lifetime. Other people have sent a small credit or debit card in their girlfriends name with small limits or deposits and refilled the tank when it gets low.

I use two Colombian banks like Conavi and BanColombia and you can move currency back and forth between the two or to accounts or other accounts set up to receive the transfers. You can do it from your computer through the internet from anywhere in the world in a few keystrokes.

I think you know that you are not just marrying a Colombian woman but also the Colombian culture. You won't want to change the woman and try to remove the culture as you won't like what comes out the other end (been there done that). You know all this already and good luck.

pointofview comments on My Colombian Girlfriend

fennell01 I guess that I am older than most having seen too much in my lifetime which has made me defensive of Colombian people and their struggle. Yes, I started working at an early age just like you did saving every penny so I could go into business someday. If you spend more time in Colombia the picture will become a little clearer to you.

With unemployment reaching almost 20% and between 40-50% of the employed earning at or near the minimum wage (US$150/mo) life for most people in Colombia is a real struggle. In my opinion, I think post WWII (era) life in the USA would not be much different than current day life for the past 15 years in Colombia for 50% of the population (or more). Immediately following the post WWII era in the USA there were no food stamp programs, no housing assistance programs, no unemployment benefit programs, no liquidity, no long term loans for housing or businesses and not the wide assortment of current state or federal assistance for low income persons in the USA. The USA literally borrowed and spent its way to the current day prosperity which it is now being distroyed by ourselves. It was FDR and his policies after the great depression that jump started the USA economy and the economic momentum from WWII that provided the base to keep improving the standard of living for USA people. Now the world is competing for each USA job that can be performed offshore much cheaper and they are winning the battle.

That's Colombia today for the most part (maybe not quite that bad but a real struggle).

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think a child can legally work in Colombia (if they could find a job) until they are 18 years old. Sure they could find something to do to earn a little money (damn little). There is such an over-supply of labor that the companies cherry pick the best, the youngest and most able discarding the older employees like toilet paper. If you are Colombian and haven't found a stable job by the time you are 40 (I think 35) you are considered "past your prime" and finding a job becomes much more difficult with each advancing year. I won't go into the issue of skin color or disabilities in job placement except to say that it makes me sick everytime I think of it. Me, I want to hire grey hair, brains, stability, and rainbow colored people with experienced judgment that comes with age but not so in Colombia. There is exceptions to everything I have said so others can weigh in and correct my mistakes but this is part of what is behind the surface

Your girlfriends brothers (at ages 16 & 18) should not have asked for Nike shoes on an unsolicited basis. If they expressed an interest in the shoes (but didn't ask) and you bought them sure that works. If they were much younger then that's Ok if they asked because they don't know better.

I think if you spend more time in Colombia you will appreciate just how difficult life is here for the majority of people and why sharing in their lives is so important because they don't have the big federal government to provide much for them like we do in the USA for those that need assistance.

It's like the old saying if your neighbor lost his or her job it's a recession but if you lost your job it's a depression.

You will come to appreciate your new family and everything about them after all what is the different between biological or non-biological relatives. It depends upon something called conditional or non-conditional love if you can find it or can give it. It's out there somewhere for everyone (sometimes forever and sometimes not).

pointofview comments on Who has a partner coming here from Colombia, but wants to move there?????

AARWYATT Daver is right as I think she will have to spend about 3 years in the USA without returning before she can obtain he permenent residency status.

In my opinion the best tools she could bring back to Medellin is being completely fluent in english. Not just being able to speak it but being able to read, write and speak all completely fluently. Its all easier said than done.

My first girlfriend is entering her senior year in a USA university majoring in education and she is still not totally fluent in writing after working five years at the process. Of course the same would be true for you as the best tools for you to return to Medellin with is being able to read, write and speak spanish fluently (totally).

These tools will give both of you more opportunity than anything else I can think of. The second best thing to bring is $$$$ earned in the USA as it buys you choices. Once employed in Medellin your earnings won't do much more than cover your living expenses. The longer you stay in the USA and improve each others language skills while building up the piggy-bank the less relant you both will be on earned income in Medellin after you return.

pointofview comments on American cars in Colombia

AARWYATT You should think about it this way !!! When you were a child wanting your first bike your parents started you out with a little "pass me down" bike with training wheels before letting you loose with the real thing. Your Mazda would appreciate not being the first training vehicle that your wife (or girlfriend) hones her skills upon. Put her into the Volvo tank and fear for the rest of the driving public that she comes into contact with.

My second girlfriend is a worse driver than my first so I think it's in their blood. I sent her to a better driving school and she has her driver's license but I am sending her back to drivering school before she kills someone (probably me).

pointofview comments on My Colombian Girlfriend

Hola Hunter Please check your email. I sent you an email with some info.