Working illegally?

platano says on Jul 16, 2005, 08:42:

It is common but I don't recommend it... In my opinion, when someone visits another country, to be a good guest it is a good idea to respect the laws of that country whether or not there are "consequences".

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 16, 2005, 09:15:

Good point Platano ! There is no excuse for anyone to be illegal in Colombia, this is especially true if you are a person who is an educator and is seeking an opportunity to be some kind of an instructor in Colombia.

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kernow62 says on Jul 16, 2005, 10:25:

I was surprised to learn how easy it is for an illegal to get a job in the US. A friend from Bogotá had a choice of 5 jobs in two days, you don't even need a Social Security card and the US government loves it. With a Tax ID number at a cost of $20 an illegal can pay into the system but cannot reap the benefits (supposedly). Banks are clamouring to loan these people money because apparently they default less than American borrowers! If this person can find a job so easily; why are so many in the US unemployed?

I have learned a lot this week!

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bogota says on Jul 16, 2005, 10:36:

platano you are 100% correct Being illegal or working illegal is a crime in any country, either be, legal or get the hell out!

I myself was illegal for two days on Colombian visa, I noticed it two days to late, I went for my renewal and was interigated for 5 days and fined. Bottom line, it was my stupidity, I was happy to explain & pay up. Some have said, "All the money we spend in Colombia and you were harrassed" Bullsh*t, I broke the law and I can admit it was my fault.

It there were not so many "criminals" entering and working illegally in the U.S., Canada, etc, more good honest people that deserve to be granted visas would have them.

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platano says on Jul 16, 2005, 10:41:

why are so many in the US unemployed? Because most people don't want minimum wage jobs which don't provide a living wage. All that glitters is not gold. Don't be deceived by how "easy" things are in the USA where purchasing power continues to decline.

In the latest Trade Deficit figures, new record deficits have been recorded despite a lower dollar and a slow down in overall U.S. consumption. With much of the U.S. manufacturing sector gutted in the 1990’s and early 2000’s, dependence of foreign production now looms as a major liability, forcing up consumer prices as higher ‘pass thru’ import prices have intensified the squeeze on real wages for most Americans. Declining purchasing power now reinforces the larger slow down in consumption.

Plátano, economist??? NOT!
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 16, 2005, 10:46:

Hi Kernow.....you would not believe what these people can do her Loans, Jobs (easily), health care, (free and for purchase, access to all public schools, (no questions asked), loans to buy new and used cars, and are you ready for this?????? Mortgages!! No lie. That takes care of your suggestion that they don't reap the benefits of paying into the system. Here in Chicago, we have the second largest city in the US with illegal Mexicans. LA is the largest. They can get access to just about anything. They can still get a drivers license as well. Don't know English? No problem. There isn't a business or govenrmental institution where you are in need of service that does not have someone that speaks Spanish.

It's funny, a few weeks ago, I called the local power company and someone answered the phone in English but with a thick Mexican Spanish accent. As a side not, it is funny, Mexican speak a rather unique form of Spanish and when they speak English, they carry over that dialect even when they speak English (They sing when they talk). Anyway, I thought I had called the Spanish number on the bill. She said she took the call because the English lines were overflowing. So we spoke in Spanish because I could understand her in Spanish better than I could in English. That was funny. But it also is a somewhat sad statement.

Things are changing, but for the most part, illegals have it good here. If they did not, you can be sure that they would be heading south and crossing the Rio Grando in a hearbeat. In fact, I know pregnant women who specifically come here from Mexico so they can have their babies here. They get Medicaid, and access to America's BEST hospitals and don't have to pay one cent. In Mexico if they are poor, they go to the local maternity place which is not a hosptial and if there are any complications for you or the baby....Good Luck. By the way, when the baby is born here, even if the mother is illegal, guess what? The new born infant has instant citizenship. You want to know about this stuff Kernow....just ask me.

By the way Kernow....where have you been? It took you forever to answer my email.

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kernow62 says on Jul 16, 2005, 10:57:

Oh I know about the last one, my wife was born in NYC while her parent's were here, instant US citizen. Boy am I glad. But doesn't that law apply in many other countries, the US is not unique. I would hazrd a guess that per capita there are several European nations that have more immigrants legal or otherwise.

What E-mail? The one where you asked how many Colombians live in the UK? I thought I answered that one fairly promptly.

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BxUnika says on Jul 16, 2005, 21:13:

Illegals in US "If this person can find a job so easily; why are so many in the US unemployed?"

Because they take jobs away from Americans.

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vicshere says on Jul 16, 2005, 21:23:

old days in the old days ...like 3-4 years ago it was easy enough to get an illegally job but the government has cracked down on this and it almost impossible to get a job without proper visa or proper paper work.... the English school wants to hire me but until I can get my Colombian nationality next year they cant hire me.....

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

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zephyr1957 says on Jul 17, 2005, 13:47:

Ok.... It's true I wanted to know about illegal but my question is incomplete. I was invited by a school for a job interview in Colombia but the Colombian embassy told me I'm to get the visa before departure. I've read many times schools won't hire you from abroad, sounds like catch 22 to me.

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kernow62 says on Jul 17, 2005, 19:08:

"If this person can find a job so easily; why are so many in the US unemployed?"

Because they take jobs away from Americans.
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BxUnika that is bullshit. Face it Americans don't want these jobs. The reasons employers use illegals is not only because they can pay less, or scam the government out of taxes, they hire these people because they get a full days work and more. Have you ever watched Mexican roofers or landscapers in the hot Florida sun, think you will fill those jobs with Americans? Not after the employer sees what sort of workers these guys are.

American jobs may be lost to illegal workers but far more are exported overseas by greedy corporations.

As the economies of Mexico and other Latin countries get better, the problem with illegal immigration into the US will decline. It is the best interest of the US to have neighbours with a strong economy. Keep people happy and well-fed at home and they won't have the incentive to leave.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 17, 2005, 21:04:

They are also moving back Like never before. It works both ways. Travel has never been easier in history than it is now.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 17, 2005, 21:23:

Kernow.....I'll have to take issue with that While originally Mexican came her to take jobs Americans did not want, that is far from the truth today. Look, logic dictates that is not true. Do you have any idea how many more illegals there are here today than there were 10 years ago??? Research that. With six times as many illegals in Chicago as their were ten years ago, I can assure you that there are not 6 times as many bus boy and gardener jobs available here. Also, up here the big contractors all have union employees, illegals could not work for roofers. Florida is an anomoly because it is a right to work state. Unions are weak in Florida.

But know this for sure, 10-12 years ago, the mean packers and butchers used to earn 17-20 dollars an hour, today they earn less becuase mostly eillegal Mexicans are working in this industry for 10-12 dollars an hour. Today, Mexicans are repairing cars for service stations and American owned independent repair shops. They work for painting contractors. They are working for non untion construction companies--not the ones that build high rises, but the ones that build homes and smaller apartment buildings. I live here in Chicago, I know what I am saying. I represent some of these property owners for matters like workers comp claim...so don't tell me they are not taking away American jobs...You are dead wrong!

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kernow62 says on Jul 18, 2005, 13:18:

So if an American worker would work for 12 dollars an hour instead of 17 they would/could be employed? So rather than make what they think they should be earning they would rather not work. So they might not be able to have as much as they think they are entitled to it is better than no job, IMHO. Look if every American company was to boot out every illegal working for them and never hire another illegal the tide of illegal imigration would stop, but it isn't going to happen. Greed will see to that.

Consumers want more and more goods at cheap prices, they want cheap services; employers want more profits. Either US workers will have to work cheaper, or the jobs will be filled by illegals or at least imigrants or the jobs will be shipped overseas.

You cannot expect CEOs to cut back on their income, they hardly make enough as it is. ;-)

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 18, 2005, 21:24:

I agree with most of what you just said I only wanted to completely dispel the myth that illegals take the jobs that American will not do. Come to Chicago and I will take you to some interesting places to show you illegals doing some pretty damn good jobs, earning Damn good money. Look if a butcher was earning 17 dollars an hour 10 years ago, and today a lot of smaller meat house are opening up hiring illegl Mexiacans for 10-12 dollars an hour, don't you think that is screwing the Americans working? Of course it does, because those meat packing houses have to charge their customers, restaurants, grocery stores, etc more money. The net result is the customers switch to the cheaper meat houses, and the Mexicans do better. Now a Mexican earning 10-12 an hour....shit man, that is great money. In Mexico, he earned less than 10 dollars working a 10 hour day.

Kernow, the other day I had an illegal Mexican come to give me quote for painting my 1 bed room condo. I would supply the paint and related materials. He works 8 hours a day with a contractor, and to he moonlights on Saturday to earn extra money. The SOB, know no English, is illegal, has no insurance, and the SOB gave me a price of $850 with me supplying the paint. I ended up having an middle aged Irish guy do it. He had insurance and over 20 years painting experience.....all for 675 dollars. I was so pissed at that Mexican for trying to pull that shit. I almost wanted to call Homeland security officials and have his ass sent home. Of course I wouldn't but give me a break.

So, no more of this nonsense about them coming here to take jobs we will not do....No cierto senor

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platano says on Jul 18, 2005, 23:11:

Tinto, we are a bit farther away from full employment... Besides those who have stopped working another group of unemployed are older Americans.

Katharine Bradbury, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, has done a study which suggests that millions of Americans who should be in the labor force aren't. "The addition of these hypothetical participants," she writes, "would raise the unemployment rate by one to three-plus percentage points." ... Because older Americans, especially older women, are more likely to work than in the past, labor force participation should have risen, not fallen, over the past four years. As a result, she suggests that there may be "considerable slack in the U.S. labor market": there are at least 1.6 million and possibly as many as 5.1 million people who aren't counted as unemployed but would take jobs if they were available. SOURCE: NYT, 7/18/2005 "The Droput Puzzle" by Paul Krugman

So, instead of the official 5.1% it could be anywhere from 6 to 8 percent. In February 2001 it was 4.2% so it is possible unemployment has doubled in the last four years from 4.2% to 8%. That might explain why the Gallup polls tell us that only 3 percent of Americans describe the economy as "excellent."

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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kernow62 says on Jul 19, 2005, 06:02:

Tinto, if Mexico's economy is so strong; how about its unemployment rate? I would imagine that all things being equal between the USA and Mexico, Mexicans would prefer to stay in Mexico. However even more so than in the US there is a huge disparity between the haves and have nots. Until this is more equitable we will see the poor coming to the US for economic reasons.

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kernow62 says on Jul 19, 2005, 06:03:

Gomez you can't beat a drunk Irish painter. ;-)

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 19, 2005, 15:28:

Hey Kernow..... Let me tell ya something. Sure enough, this guy can drink. A takes a beer break in the mid morning. He has a couple bottles of beer for luch, and then he has a couple more in the mid afternoon. By the time he went home, he had at least 5 bottles of beer....all this before % PM. I can't imagine how much this guy must have drink at night when he is off of work.....

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kernow62 says on Jul 20, 2005, 06:16:

It is a deadly combination an Irishman and a painter as well. ;-)

Take away the booze and he probably couldn't paint a straight line.

A real master painter is a rare thing these days, a master painter doesn't need a drop cloth or any masking tape. Good brushes, good paint, a steady hand and a pinto of Guinness will get the job done.

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BxUnika says on Jul 21, 2005, 11:53:

Re: Kernow BxUnika that is bullshit. Face it Americans don't want these jobs. The reasons employers use illegals is not only because they can pay less, or scam the government out of taxes, they hire these people because they get a full days work and more. Have you ever watched Mexican roofers or landscapers in the hot Florida sun, think you will fill those jobs with Americans? Not after the employer sees what sort of workers these guys are.

You really have no clue what you are talking about. Obviously you are upper-middle-class or upper-class, because these jobs that "Americans are too lazy to do"? Guess what? Every male member in my family works in this type of labor and I know many more who do. In addition, high school kids are having a harder and harder time getting part-time jobs because many places would rather an illegal immigrant who they can exploit and pay less.

I really resent people like you talking total shit about blue collar work taht you clearly know nothing about. My father is a foreman on one of these type jobs and he say that while they work hard, many of them really don't know what they are doing as well as the Americans do who were trained in this sort of labor. You pay an American a fair wage and you'll probably get what you wanted. You pay an illegal? Well, you might get a job for cheap, but many times it will be low-quality. You get what you pay for.

As the economies of Mexico and other Latin countries get better, the problem with illegal immigration into the US will decline. It is the best interest of the US to have neighbours with a strong economy. Keep people happy and well-fed at home and they won't have the incentive to leave.

Don't expect that anytime soon. Vicente Fox would rather make us look like schmucks than to address the problems facing his country.

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BxUnika says on Jul 21, 2005, 12:01:

Gomezman is 100% Correct So now you have moved on from talking about things you don't know anything about to insulting my ethnicity. You are quite the guy.

And that crap about how Americans should just settle for les money in order not to have to compete with illegals? This is OUR country. Illegal immigrants are intruders. Why should we pay any price for them?

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kernow62 says on Jul 21, 2005, 13:35:

BxUnika I wasn't insulting the Irish, I was talking about painters in general. They have one of the highest rates of alcoholism amongst trades. If you would read my second post you could plainly see that. Just for the record my father was a master painter.

I wouldn't mind being upper class or upper middle class, but alas I probably earn less than you.

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quindioman says on Jul 21, 2005, 13:58:

an oirishman wouldn't be an oirishman if he didn't have any alcohol in/on him :p

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