Women traveling to Cali

Crazy4Cali says on Jan 15, 2006, 21:21:

Can you get a local connection? Maybe you could try to establish contact with a local down there before you head out. I.e. someone through your school or maybe connect with another student?

I stick out like a sore thumb but I keep my eyes open and have local connections so I have never felt threatened in Cali.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 15, 2006, 21:26:

I have somewhat Crazy4Cali,

some of my Colombian friends here have family members in that area, but since the family is heavily involved in politics, I am afraid to be associated with them because I do not want someone to harm me for being associated with them. Any more suggestions?

Thanks for your help.

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 15, 2006, 21:39:

Go with the friend of a friend? Have them recommend someone not so close to their political endeavors. Surely they know someone.

But, remember to keep all the "advice" your getting in context. Much of it is anecdotal and much is "worst case scenario" reporting. It would be like getting your view of Los Angeles from an edition of "COPS" or "WORLDS CRAZIEST POLICE CHASES." Sure, everything you see on COPS is true (more or less), but it's a very selective view of the overall reality. That seems to be how news from Colombia is reported.

I've travled to Latin America many times without incident, yet, I've been to Disneyland (the happiest place on earth) in California and been ripped off. What does that mean? Shit happens, I suppose. I don't really know. But I'll probably go back to Disneyland (kicking and screaming but if the kids drag me there....) and I'll probably go back to Colombia. In both cases, I'll keep my eyes open and have a good time.

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caslug says on Jan 15, 2006, 22:00:

You should go! BUT be take the necessary precaution.. listen to local advice regarding safety and err on the side of caution. In 7 weeks in cali, i saw 2 auto acident, knew 2 people that got robbed, saw a fight on the street, and went to a house party where ganster pulled a gun on a gringo(i left a few hour before this happen). nothing bad happen to me during my time and I walked and took the bus lots of places. BUT i am cautious, stay out of bad areas, listen to my instincts and was ALWAYS careful.

If you have friend in CALI, they'll keep you out of trouble and as a girl i would think you'll be LESS likely to be a victim of violent crime, women tend NOT to fight their attackers during a robbery or mugging, hence stand less chance of getting hurt. As a student, people know you dont have lots of money(unless you advertise it) so you only have to worry about random robbery or mugging(which can be avoid w/ proper precaution).

Also, the majority of the university are in the south, try to get a apartment from bull ring or south. Also, look for apartments with security guard inside and hopefully the streets around apartment is lighted.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 16, 2006, 07:00:

Re-think Cali. I felt ill-at-ease in Cali mostly because my Paisa novia communicated that to me. She had been to Cali many times and has friends there.

The tourist zone of Cartagena is very safe. I have lived there for three years. There are lots of unaccompanied young ladies here. Many of them have well-paying part-time employment. But you may not want their jobs.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 16, 2006, 09:30:

So True! You have made a good point C4C! I will try to see if they still have any friends there (they've been here in the USA for 4-5 years already) and try to hang out with their friends. I like the COPS comparison that you made. I will keep that in mind when I make my final decision. Thanks for all of your advice.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 16, 2006, 09:39:

Gracias... ...for giving me a very realistic view of what I can possibly expect. I feel a little better about it, but of course, as you said, I will definitely keep my guard up.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 16, 2006, 09:44:

Really? Hi Tom!

Thanks for responding to my post. You have really peaked my interest now, because I am wondering what have you heard/experienced in Cali that made you feel ill-at-ease. Of course, I want to make the safest decision as possible, so any experiences that you can share with me would be very much appreciated. Also, could you give me some info on Cartagena? I will research it a bit on the Internet myself, but most times the results give me a touristic view of the city, and not a realistic one. Are there universities there?

Thanks!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 16, 2006, 10:02:

I travel alone to Cali and am a woman so I feel I should have something to add to this post, but I'm receiving so much conflicting information about Cali that I don't know what to believe. I haven't been in Cali for a while (it's almost three years now since my last visit) and I have never felt more uneasy about going to that city where I once lived for an extended period of time (12 years). I'm getting ready for my next trip shortly and even if I have not booked the tickets yet (am still waiting to hear from the inmobiliaria in Cali) I know I'll be there soon.

Should you, Southern_Dyme, feel nervous and apprehensive about a stay in in Cali? I frankly believe that life goes on in the Sultana del Valle pretty much as it has always done; just a little more unease and need to be alert and maintain a low profile. That's what I'm planning to do: go about my business as usual in Cali, visit the malls, the resaturants, my friends there, see about my house and the repairs that need to be done; after nightfall go out in company of locals, keep my valuables ( a very small item) locked up at my relative's, carry a copy of my passport and take a friend with me when I take out money at ATMs.

You'll like Cali if you can put up with relatively high daytime temps, enjoy the party scene (salsa!), like and feel comfortable with unpretentious, friendly, laid-back people and stay in a safe, well-lit neighborhood.

Go for it and enjoy your stay in "my" city and please give us some feedback once you're there.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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scottiec says on Jan 16, 2006, 11:11:

mee too..... I have been here in Mexico for three years LIVING not visiting,I have come home late from clubs,gone to rough Cantinas,have gotten in word ¨fights¨ but being smarter and less ëmotional¨has pretty much kept me out of trouble. I have traveled from Los Cabos to Cozumel,from Manzanillo to Matamoros and everything in between and pretty much nothing has happened , I have more problems with my (several) bosses and the way the expect to be able to treat employees, here it is real ugly being an employee,there is ALOT of reasons why they cross the border.Being White ,intelligent,experienced,great for business,here it does not matter,when your below someone they (probably) will let you know who is boss and crap on you. There is a local "dicho" thats says here is like puppies,instead of everyone going to their own nipple to get milk, they will fight for yours and push you down , just to be above you. Its kinda farfeched.......but , darnit its true. I am now thinking about another country, that is why I am here on this site......researching.......good luck,keep your eyes open and enjoy,being a tourist,countries tend to be "prettier" than they really are ,but for me,I would rather KNOW the culture ,than just being a foreigner,taking pictures and leaving and not know the "sabor" flavor of life. For me,politically,I cannot stand the U.S. but because of the flavor of life here in America de Latinos , I could never return and LIVE in the states again. Try to learn things about the culture,history,local myths,foods,these things can increase your respest and you enjoyment of the people and the culture.If your politically adept,go to a university and talk to an English speaking professor and learn (at least ,from his/her point of view) what has happened in the history of the U.S. and the Latin American countries.....it might be an eye-opener.....but learn how to cook something simple that you really like from there and when you get back, you will always appreciate your memories (good and maybe bad ) I will be going soon maybe for a month or so to learn more about Colombia......again good luck......

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caslug says on Jan 16, 2006, 11:27:

south..if you have friends in CALI.. then by all means go there. Your experience will be enrich due to having friends show you around and keeping you out of trouble. BUT if you have NO friends that will be living there the same time you will, then i recommend other cities(Bogota, Medellin or CTG). If you like big city choose BOG or MED, if you like hot/beach city(think Miami) then go for CTG.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 16, 2006, 11:55:

I laughed when I read Scottiec's comment that "because of the flavor of life here in America de Latinos, I could never return and LIVE in the states again." As far as I am concerned I do live in America de los Latinos. I feel sorry for those who do not live in an area with a majority Latino population whose Latino population is part and parcel of the mainstream culture. Tex-Mex rocks!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 16, 2006, 12:22:

Cali has a lot of unemployment. There are a lot of people standing around with nothing to do and probably little to eat.

Cartagena metro is around 1 million people. Tourism is a big part of our economy, mostly other Colombians hitting the beach. There are large military installations in and near the city. The government is very protective of its tourist dinero.

There are several good universities as well.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 17, 2006, 17:02:

Thank you for all of the suggestions and stories you have shared with me. I will attempt to answer everyone in this email.

Desi: I appreciate your input. I think having friends there does make a big difference, and at this point I am unsure as to whether or not I will have anyone to help show me around. I do have a friend here from Cali who told me that he would get his family to look out for me, but this is not a friend I have known for a very long time and I do not know if he will keep his word (I know that when I was in undergrad I made my decision to go to the school based on the fact that someone said they would help me and they did not). The only thing I could hope for is that the school will have someone to help me, but then again they probably will not take me into the city and show me around. If I do not have anyone there to assist me, do you suggest that I still go?

Scottie: I plan to learn all I can while in Colombia. This will make the third Latin American country that I have visited, and I hope it will be everything I think it to be...times 10! What part of Mexico are you in? I lived in Queretaro for about 7 months and I didn't care for it. However, I did meet great friends there and had very few incidents. I hope for the same in Colombia.


Caslug (any anyone else who cares to respond): I have been thoroughly warned to stay out of Bogota, so I think that might be out. As far as some of the other cities are concerned, they might be a possibility. I have been told that if I stick to the coastal areas then I should be safer. However, I do not want to go anywhere that's very hot. A teacher of mine suggested Baranquilla, which I imagine is pretty hot as well because it's near Cartagena. Do you know anything about Baranquilla that you can share with me?


Tomtom: Well, if I do the math correctly, high unemployment does mean more crime, so that is another factor I should consider. Thanks for that bit of info. I know that you have suggested Cartagena to me, but since it is a tourist town, is it very pricey?


GIB: I know that you post a lot in the forums, and in fact I read a post recently where someone said you are just like a Colombian now because you have been in Colombia for several years and have a lot of the streetsmarts one needs to survive. So, when you tell me that Cali is off your list and that even the locals are becoming more weary of the crime, I am all ears. What suggestions do you have for other cities?


Everyone: Again, I want to thank you for responding to my post. I couldn't even express in words how much you all have helped me, and I anxiously await your repsonses!

CJW

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 17, 2006, 17:12:

I think provincial attitudes might be influencing the person that told you to stay out of Bogota. Cali right now might be a toss up, a few years ago Medellin was, and a few years before that Medellin rightly deserved the title as murder capital of the world. But the large northern coastal cities and Bogota have been reasonably safe for the average person for quite a while.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 18, 2006, 08:25:

I've re-read your original post, southern, and understand that you would be stdying and researching the salsa scene in Colombia and that is the main reason you had originally chosen Cali for your stay. I can't think of a better city in Colombia for that purpose. Will you be enrolled at one of the local universities at the same time or are you going to do independent research?

I don't quite understand what you mean by fitting in. If you are a foreigner you will be immediately recognized as being such, no matter your ethnic background, coloring or how well you speak Spanish. As a foreign female, you'll receive a lot of attention, some of it maybe unwanted. You'll have to know how to deal with it. People would be very inquisitive, friendly and hospitable, yet you'd have to know if they are just being that or if there are some ulterior motives behind it. In a city like Cali you'd have to have your guard up all the time, especially since you basically have no connections or a supportive, friendly and reliable network behind you.

Would I travel to Cali alone, being a gringa myself at this time, not having any family or friends or anybody I can really trust there? I must answer no.

Adela, are you reading this thread? What do you think?

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 18, 2006, 08:58:

Home stays? I don't know about Cali, in particular, but many schools that deal with people from outside the region (e.g. other cities, if not other countries) have host families for visiting students. These are generally good families the schools have checked out and if you don't happen to get along with one, they can usually find another for you.

It might take a phone call or e-mail to get this information, but if you have school in mind, they can probably help you with this information.

I'm not a gringa, but Desi's description of Cali is close to how I'd describe my visits.

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caslug says on Jan 18, 2006, 11:41:

Dyme, if you DONT have any good/trusted friends.. in cali, then checkout the other cities for schools. I've been to all the cities mention and found Cali the most boring and dangerous. But that's just me, because i like to go out so i go to places off the gringo trail. BOG has THE most universities in COL, it's the biggest city, so will have the most options.

As for safety, ALL cities in COL can be BOTH safe AND dangerous, if live a student lifestyle(go to school, go home, go out with friends, etc.,) you'll probably stay under the radar and nothing will happen. If you're like me and other tourist who go out at NIGHT ALOT then our risk profile is a little higher. BUT as long as you keep out of the bad areas, you'll be fairly(very) safe in ANY city.

Right now for whatever reason there seems to be a little more bad stuff happening in cali, especially in areas frequent by tourist(avienda sexta). So that is concerning to me. My recommendation again, would be checkout the other cities since you dont have any ties to cali. If you like nice weather, socal then go to MED, if you like the beach go to CTG, if you like big city, cold weather, goto BOG.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 19, 2006, 19:31:

Once again I have found all of your advice extremely helpful. Thank you to those of you who have responded.

Tinto: You are so right. Due to the fact that we all have different experiences, it tends to shape our view of a certain place. Perhaps my teacher had a bad experience in Bogota and that’s why she does not think too highly of it. She strongly recommended Barranquilla to me, but after looking at the temps, I scratched that off my list really quick. That’s why I wanted to get other people’s opinions to see what they thought of these places, and I appreciate your response.

Desi: When I originally looked for countries that had strong ties to salsa, Colombia was the first to come up. Then I learned of Cali, the salsa capital, so this has had a major influence on my decision. I plan to enroll in a university (hopefully Universidad Santiago de Cali), as well as pursue my research on the side. What I meant by “fitting in� was that I should be ok as long as I keep my mouth shut. Once I open it and my accent comes out, it’s all over! LOL. I plan to keep a low profile and try to assimilate as much as possible so that I don’t stand out. As far as having my guard up, that’s an automatic. I’m from a small town but have lived in a big city for a little over one year now, and although I cannot say that I’m 100% used to living here just yet, the one thing I am sure about is that I’m always on guard. I just hope that it will be enough to get me by in Cali, or any other part of COL if I decide to go somewhere else.

Crazy4Cali: The only options I am considering are homestays or living on campus. I do not think that I’m ready to live in an apartment there. At first, I was 100% sold on the homestay, because it’s the best way to learn some of the culture, interact with people, and experience authentic foods without having to dine out. But, I was talking with someone yesterday and they have scared me a bit with the homestay, because they presented a scenario that I did not previously consider: what if the host family tries to cause me some type of harm? Maybe I’m going overboard with it now (or perhaps it may seem that I’m being over paranoid), but then again I don’t want to be naïve. What is your take on this?

Caslug: I do like to go out as well, especially salsa dancing, which I do here at least once a week. However, until I become more familiar with my surroundings and meet locals, I probably won’t keep up that routine in Colombia. I do indeed plan to live a low profile life, and I want to learn the bad areas right away so that I won’t find myself in a bad situation (by the way, do you know the name of any of the dangerous parts?). I am hoping that my friend here will come through for me and have his brother, who lives in Cali, to look out for me. I’ve heard so much negativity about avenida Sexta that I’m scared to even go there in the daytime! LOL. I know for sure that I will not go there at night, or if I do it will be with people that I trust.


QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE WHO IS WILLING TO ANSWER THEM: I have a few questions that I cannot seem to find the answers to online despite all of my searching. Perhaps some of you can help me out? Thanks!

1.What current issues are taking place in Colombia, but especially in Cali? I’ve been reading some online newspapers, but according to a member’s post in another forum, the newspapers in COL cannot be regarded as a source for presenting ALL of the news.

2.What is the style of dress there? I will have a limited space, so I want to be sure that I bring the right type of clothing.

3.Are there any colloquialisms specific for Cali?

4.Are there any good modeling agencies? I am doing some modeling now, and would love to be able to continue while I’m abroad, if at all possible.

5.For my extranjeros…is it possible to study abroad in COL as well as find some type of part-time employment (such as teaching English)? I am unclear as to whether I can do that or not on a student visa.

6.What large city in the U.S. would Cali be most comparable with? This will help me to get an idea of what to expect as far as crime and structure is concerned.

7.What dishes (food) are typical of that region of COL?

Thank you for those of you who are willing to answer!

CJW

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 19, 2006, 20:34:

well.... WRT Homestays, I suppose something bad could happen, but I think there are too many people with money to lose to prevent that from happening. The school would lose money, the family would lose money, etc. In my experience, the schools tend to take the quality of their homestay families pretty seriously.

WRT Modeling, well, if you want to blend in, having your photo plastered all over the place is probably not the best way to do that. I'd say put the Modeling on hold while you're down there, unless, of course you don't mind all the attention.

Just look like a poor student and you'll probably be fine. If not, remember that nothing in your backpack is worth dying for.

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jalf12 says on Jan 19, 2006, 20:39:

CeCe Southern Dyme Answer to questions:
#2. Not sure about Cali but one dress style I have not see in Colombia (for women) is shorts. Girls wear pants or a skirt, I haven't seen any girls weraing daisy dukes in Colombia(but it could be different in Cali).
#4. I think you could get modeling work any where in the world;).
#5. You may not get a full time job in a large institutions with just a student visa, but from what I understand, a native english speaker can find some kind of teaching work relatively easy.

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litost says on Jan 20, 2006, 06:25:

I say follow your passion, take into account all the precautions but as far as salsa is concerned it is for sure Cali would be the place. It's not like it would be suicidal going there, just be aware of certain dangers while not letting the worries ruin your stay. If you get enrolled in a good program in a good university, quickly meet people and make friends who will orient you, you should be fine and enjoy Cali which can be a very fun city. That being said, overall I would recommend Medellin or Bogota first for someone new to Colombia.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 20, 2006, 11:09:

I've been talking to some people in Cali (a relative) for a couple of night on MSG and she says that Cali is just about the same it has always been: you have to know the people you deal with and keep your guard up, as usual, not giving papaya, in short, nothing new. She denied categorically that Cali has become more unsafe or dangerous than when I was there last time three years ago. Now, there have been many local residents who say the same, yet crime statistics show a different picture and the visiting gringos report a much worsened scene. Maybe it's become much more dangerous for gringos on Avenida Sexta and Chippy Chappy Mall but not for an average caleño? Well, I'll soon see it for myself and will be reporting back.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Jan 20, 2006, 14:29:

dyme, answer to your questions.. 2. Jeans, jeans, & jeans(did i say jeans?) the tighter the better! I saw VERY few miniskirt, practically NO dress(long ankle length), or knee length skirt i've seen were work uniforms. The vast majority of women(especially young/student) wear tight, hip/hugger jeans and tight, low cut t-shirt or blouse. More professional or conversative would wear fairly tight jeans, not as low, and blouse or t-shirt.

5. once you get settled into your university, just put an ad up for english tutor, all unis have a langauge center were student go to learn english(and other language). The VAST majority of the english teachers are COL, so a native speaking tutor could get some work, more than enough for beer money(of course as a girl, you probably dont have to even pay for your own beer!). BUT a student visa WILL NOT allow you to work as a LEGAL teacher(ie, english teacher at the college), you'll have to work cash based and under the table.

6. Cali reminds me of small/mid-size cities in the US, Memphis, MS, Raliegh, NC, or Bakerfield, CA comes to mind. WHile Memphis has Graceland(great place) and known for their jazz, it's not a city that I would recommend to foreigner who may have only ONE opportunity to live in the US. Just like I wouldnt recommend Cali, IF YOU HAVE opportunity to goto BOG, BOG is better. BOG is the CAPITAL, LOT more things to do, places(museums, parks, clubs, etc.,) to go, and more diverse people(you'll met student from ALL around COL in BOG). As for Salsa dancing, in BOG and MED you'll easily find tons of clubs that has salsa dancing. I've been to clubs(salsa) in BOG, CALI, & MED and found them all the same. Actually, MED has more salsa clubs than Cali(cr 70 and sabenta has tons of salsa clubs). There is one club in CALI near avienda sexta that specialize in CUBAN salsa. BUT i wouldnt choose a city because of one club. Hate to break the news to you, but in CALI there's only two main area to party avienda sexta and juanchito, juanchito is pretty dangerous, it's a poorer part of town and there's been several robberies on gringos(who went there by themselves).

Plus you can ALWAYS take a short trip to Cali during school breaks. It's like having an opportunity to live in NYC for 6 mos, would you rather exp NYC for 6 mos or Bakerfield? BOG will give you a better feel for COL, Cali is too provincial. Plus if your want to do any type of modeling, BOG or MED are the places that have more opp't. MED because it's the capital of fashion in COL and BOG because it's the media(newspaper/TV) capital. I think all the COL soap opera(telenovelas) are filmed in BOG.

7. Food, i dont think cali has any "famous" dish, MED has the tipica paisa specaility. I found the food in cali, standard meat/potatoe variety, slightly bland(IMO) but filling and cheap. If you like generic american food(steak/ribs/fry chicken, etc.,) then you find food in cali quite decent.

The ONLY reason I would goto CALI is if I had a personal connection. A GOOD friend or family. Most people here that rave about cali have this connection.

There's is NO on campus aparment or dorms in in the univeristies in Cali. All the student live either at home or regular apartment. If you plan to have a boyfriend go with your own apartment or rent from other students. Because most likely the local guy is living with his parent, and for private time you two are going to a motel unless you have your own place. Also, i think all the univerisites are in the south while all the party area area is in the north. I recommend living in the south. In BOG or MED, it's more spread out, with universities in all areas.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 20, 2006, 15:05:

2. Jeans, tank tops, anything that's sleeveless. Depending on your age (I assume you're in your twenties) you can also wear skirts, short or ankle-length made od sheerest cottons (ethnic look), lots of necklaces, bracelets, earrings etc. costume jewelry for a gipsy look. Footwear: sandals with heels; boots are too warm for Cali climate.
5. You'll get plenty of opportunity for tutoring or teaching private classes in English, but as caslug already said, it will have to be under the table. As a native English-speaker you should not work too cheap.
3.Nothing special...mira vé and a little local slang won't be an issue to confuse you. Educated caleños speak very good standard Spanish, easy for the ear and not too fast. They don't swallow the s. The rhythm and the cadence of caleño Spanish is pleasant and not too hurried.
4.I have no knowledge of this. A friend of mine used to model for swimwear in Cali and she hated it. There are lots of modelling agencies in Cali but if I were you I just wouldn't bother.
6. Miami in miniature
7.Cali's contribution to the gourmet cooking to the world: the famous Sancocho valluno de gallina , preferably cooked on a wood-burning stove
Empanadas caleñas, a delicacy.
Champus.
Cheers,
Desi


Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada



Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 20, 2006, 16:04:

Nothing changes here......I can see that Every time I make an exit and slide back in again, I say to myself, "I'm going to try to avoid the controversy that I tend to get suckered into." It never works out that way though.

Once again, I read a bunch of utter lunacy. First of all Southern_Dyme, coming to this web site and inquiring as to whether it is safe to go Cali, is like asking a mother if her daughter is pretty. You will never get a realistic or unbiased opinion on this web site. And the Colombian people who tell you that "they are certain" that you will fit in...what is that based on? Do you look like a Colombian. Can you even speak Spanish? You are NOT Colombian. Therefore, even if you do speak Spanish, or look Colombian for that matter, you will NOT fit in because you do not speak Spanish like a Colombian.

Now I just read in a few posts about you having Colombian friends in Cali to look after you. I don't have any idea where these people gleaned that info from. Your post clearly says that your Colombian friends are in the US. In fact, if you had Colombian friends in Cali, logic dictates that you would not have to inquire about the safety of Cali from people on a web site that you don't even know.

"However, I cannot think of anywhere else that has a great salsa scene, which is what I'm doing the majority of my research on for my thesis." REALLY???

You can't think of anywhere better that has a great Salsa scene? I can, try Puerto Rico. Salsa has much more roots there than in Colombia. In fact, you can count on one hand, how many well known groups/salseros are from Colombia. And I will go a step further, with the exception of Grupo Niche, there has not been one group that has ever risen to the level of noteriety that Puerto Rican groups have enjoyed. Not one. Puerto Rico, contributed more to the Salsa scene in one year, than Colombia has in an entire era. If you look back to the grand old days of true folkloric salsa, the Fania days, almost all of the Salseros and groups, were Puerto Rican. In fact, I can't think of one Fania All Star that was Colombian. There were Cubans (Monguito,Celia Cruz Machito, and Dominicans (Pacheco), Panama (Blades),Venezuelans (Deleon) and Americans(Harlow) but no Colombians. As to how many Puerto Ricans there are.....try hundereds. Besides, Salsa is NOT, and has not been the dominant music in Colombia period for many years. In Colombia as a whole, popularity of Vallenatos far exceeds that of Salsa.

SAFETY
The word Safety and Cali don't belong in the same sentence IF you are going there as a student, and you don't have a very close network of friends or family to instruct you where and where you cannot go. You are a tourist. And tourists by definition like to explore. Exploring places in Cali that have the appearance of being relatively benign, are in fact not so benign. Kidnapping is the worse thing that can happen to you. But street crime is abundant. Colombian street thieves are all too adept at being able to detect, target,and victimize a tourist so quickly, you will not even know anything happened to you.
My feelings....forget Cali. And by the way, Medellin is not much better. If you aren't going to study in Cartagena (the safest city on the mainland) then go to the capitol, Bogota. It is the safest city of all of the big ones. Even there you will have to know the rules as to where you may or may not go. But relatively speaking, you are safer there than either Cali or Medellin.

I'm waiting for the Cali lovers to come on here and trash what I say because they are so good at being in denial. That said, consider yourself warned. Hey, if you really want to get a more objective opinion (and this is really going to bring on the heat now) go to the US State Department Counselor information/travel advisory about Colombia. While even I think there is a bit of embellishment of reality here, for the most part, it contains more truth than untruth.

Good Luck
G5

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juanalejo says on Jan 20, 2006, 17:26:

G5 Nice to hear that you are disqualifying the opinion of Southern_Dyme´s friends for being Caleños living abroad, but last time I recall you also live somewhere in the USA. So what qualifies your opinion as valid and theirs as invalid?

My opinion says as usual things are not as good as they should be, but far better than the media reports. I had a blast over Christmas holidays in the Feria, heard of a few incidents specially during the cabalgata, but then again there were twice the riders on the streets than the year immediately before.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 20, 2006, 17:38:

Juanalejo...2 points First, you seem to be forgeting the fact that I too am a Colombian by birth. So for that matter, I too am a Colombian living abroad. That leads to my second point. Colombian in the US tend to always down play Colombia's security situation in the US when they are talking to Americans. State simply, Colombians never like to talk bad about Colombia in front of Gringos. And lord help you if you are a Colombian talking to an American and casting Colombia in a negative light in front of other Colombians. Then my fellow Colombians really get angry at me.

Look Juanalejo, give me a break. One. This is a grings. Two. She has no friends or family in Cali. 3. She clearly will stand out 4. Cali is riddled with crime, and an almost nonexistant police force, and you would dare say that this woman should go to Cali to live and study?

Yea right.....some where along the line even you too have to face reality. Besides, you live in BOG, so you KNOW that BOG is safer than Cali. So don't even go there.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 20, 2006, 17:39:

gomezman, I guess you were referring to me when you were speaking of *cali lovers* and rightly so. Had you read what I have been telling to Southern_dyme about Cali you'd see that I'm not recommending her to travel to Cali all by herself and with no friends there to look after her. I've only been trying to give her my honest appreciation on the current situation in Cali, according to what I have been able to scrounge together from talking to real, live caleños, living currently in Cali, impressions from recent visitors to Cali and what I've been reading in the media. I didn't think I was in denial. I will be booking my trip to Cali early next week and as I said before, will be reporting back. When was the last time you were in Cali?

Cheers,
Desi


Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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felipenunez says on Jan 20, 2006, 17:48:

Hi Southern_Dyme My name is Felipe, and I'm a Colombian native from Cali. Besides coursing my Bachelor's degree for 4 years at a Canadian University and my Master's (convocation is in a week ;) from a Swedish University, I have spent my entire life in Cali. I love it, of course I am a local. However, it is quite a big town (3 million), and you can find everything for everyone. There are some parts in town that definitively should be avoided. Caslug mentioned to get an apartment close to the bullfight ring,that is a good area, being close to most universities. However, salsa and partying are mostly located in the north side. I live in the West side and it is pretty safe. Of course, I avoid walking alone at night, having companions is always a good idea.
I will be moving to Cali the 3rd of Feb, just right after receiving my Masters degree. If the is a way I can help you while being Cali, I would be more happy to provide you with it. You can tell me in advance if you have an apartment or not, I actually can even quote some rates for you.
As for dressing styles... jeans are the most common. It is a laid back environment.
I disagree with Caslug however, i nthe sense of Bogotá and Medellín having the same type of Salsa partying to Cali. I lived in Bogotá during 2004 while working there, and I am telling you, if you want true salsa, you have to make it to Cali. First of all, most people from Bogotá don´t even know how to dance, and if someone is a good dancer, he or she is probable from some other place. Medellín is better though,but I would never compared it to Cali.
Have to go now... would have loved to tell you more thing I know about my town. If you are interested this is my MSN address: negronunez at hotmail.com
Have a good weekend

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 20, 2006, 17:50:

Actually Desi...I was not thinging of you I read your post, and you were one of the few people that seemed willing to take a more balanced approach. What the hell are you jumping on me for?

The above said, I don't need to live in Cali to know what's happening there. I don't live in East St. Louis, Illinois or in Gary, Indiana to know about the dangers that may confront me if I decided to move there.

Also, I think you have lost perspective on something else. You lived in Cali. You know Cali. Because you were married to a Colombian, and you lived in cali, you probably speak Spanish with a Colombian accent. Don't you think that by definition, you are in a much better, and therefore safer position to live in Cali then a Gringa tourist who knows nobody in Cali and in reality, contrary to what some Colombian people here have said, does NOT "fit in." Enough said

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juanalejo says on Jan 20, 2006, 17:59:

G5 Nobody said she will fit in, an American can be spotted even in the middle of London, so that is not the point. Can she go to Cali and if playing it on the safe side, follow some rules, avoid some places and have a wonderful time, yes. I am glad Mr. Nuñez stepped in and offered his help with some real balanced approach of how real life goes around in Cali. And G5, I remember you are from Cali, just as this girls friends are too, I was just questioning why you were entitled to a credible opinion if you thought they are not. And by the way my father´s family is all from Cali, that is why I drive there at least twice a year. Last time I was there, two weeks ago.

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felipenunez says on Jan 20, 2006, 18:01:

Gomez... G5, you are actually right in a lot of things... However I feel you are taking a cursing approach, kind of letting someone know something bad will happen. Anyways, I liked your discussion of Salsa and its major artists (Puerto Ricans) including Fania. I think Southern Dyme should be more clear in stating exactly what is her research about. If it about salsa origins, then Cali is not the place. If it is about how salsa plays a major role in life and life styles, I believe it is a good place where to start.
Hope you have good comments for me... ;)

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caslug says on Jan 20, 2006, 18:23:

if dyme has opp't to study in BOG or Cali.. why choose cali? BOG is much better, with more place of interest and things to do. There's really nothing in Cali that you cant find in BOG, but there's LOTS of stuff in BOG that you CANT find in cali. If her MAIN reason to study abroad is to learn about salsa, as GMAN said, there are other countries and other cities. If her intention is to experience COL culture, then BOG has all of that AND she can still travel from BOG to other cities, like Cali while she lives and study in BOG.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 20, 2006, 18:29:

So, G'man, do you feel about PBH like Michael Corleone in The Godfather? "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

I love these pissing contests.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 20, 2006, 19:12:

Look......everyone Juanalejo.....How can you forget man? My family is from Bogota. %100 Rolo. But still, I know Cali.Still, like Caslug says, Bogota is a much better place than Cali for a gringa to study. From a cultural perspective, tourist perspective, you can't compare Cali to Bogota.

Now if you are a single guy, and you want to know more about ....about....about some other aspects of Colombia, than stopover in Cali may not be such a bad idea.

Felipe, thanks for the compliment. I just laugh when I hear these goofs compare Colombia's contribution to Salsa to that of Puerto Rico. It's sort of comical.

And UC, maybe it's in my blood. I'm destined to subject myself to PBH, and I'll probably be back here in my next life. Heated exchanges and all. I really like everyone here. Even Juanalejo is good guy. So what if he like to be contrary. Sometimes I swear, if I say it's black, he will say it's white. But one thing I will say about Juan, he knows Bogota as well as anyone on this site. That I am convinced of.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 22, 2006, 15:08:

I must say that I had a very entertaining time reading all of your posts. Who needs soap operas when you have all of this action going on in here! LOL. But do you know what? As interested as this reading has been, I'm more confused than ever about what to do! Some people say go for it (Cali), others say stay away from it, and I don't know what to do anymore. I just know that I HAVE to get out of the U.S.

FOR THOSE WHO SAID STUDY SALSA ELSEWHERE
The reason I did not choose Puerto Rico (as some of you suggested) is because I have a good friend of mine who is studying in PR this entire schoolyear (she has been there since August and will be returning this May) and she informed me that the younger generation is more into reggaeton now than salsa. If I were to go to school there, I would be in more contact with the younger crowd. I'm not saying that I couldn't go out and meet a more mature crowd and conduct my interviews, but it wouldn't be as accessible as it would if I could interview my peers. I think Caslug mentioned something about Cuban salsa. Nothing would please me more than to go to Cuba (if only I could). In fact, the place I go salsa every week here is a Cuban spot, but as you mentioned, I shouldn't choose a city because of one club. I definitely agree on that.

Someone suggested I give more detail as to the research that I will be doing. More or less what I will do is take certain songs and examine the lyrical content. From the music my Colombian friends here have suggested that I listen to and their accounts of growing up in Colombia, there are a lot of themes that the people face that are addressed in the songs. Now, before someone mentions this (because I know it's coming if I don't state that I'm aware of it already) I am fully aware that I do not need to come to Colombia to actually do this, nor Cali for that matter. I know this. However, I wanted to go to an area that is prominent in salsa so that I can absorb the "sensation" a little more, and maybe gain some other insight that I didn't have previously. Another part of my research will be to conduct interviews, and perhaps find some other songs that will enhance my thesis (there is slim pickings here).

WHY I DID NOT CHOOSE BOGOTA
The main reason I did not include Bogota as a choice of possible study is because I do not know anyone there, nor anyone who has friends there. I do not directly know anyone in Cali either, but as I have mentioned before, I'm counting on my friend here to come through and tell his brother to look out for me. He also said that the school was a good school, which is another important factor for me. His parents live in Buenaventura, so if I wanted to get away for a weekend visit and see something different, from what he said it's only about 2 hours from Cali. As you can probably tell from my posts up here, I am somewhat afraid of the unknown, and I do not like stepping into a pot of boiling water. So if I have someone to show me around, maybe the water is only lukewarm and not boiling (Cali=lukewarm b/c of possible contacts, Bogota=boiling b/c of no contacts). However, if it is as dangerous as many of you say, then I'm skeptical. Like I mentioned before (I think), my friend has been here in the U.S. nearly 5 years now, so I don't know if things have worsened since then. I'm trying to take that into account as well. I just want to make a very educated decision, because time is drawing near for me to start putting some money down on this venture, and I'm so unsure as to what I should do now.

Felipe, thank you so much for offering your help. I will definitely be emailing you.

Desi, I appreciate you communicating with your family who lives there on my behalf. I'll be looking for the details of your trip when you come back.

As far as Colombians having a valid opinion if they are away from the country....I'm not even touching that one! LOL. I am not in a position to say whether their opinion is valid or not. I think what the bottom line is that everyone will have a different perception of a certain place because we all are different, our interests and activities vary, so on and so forth. So I think that's the reason that their outtake on Cali (which is positive) and some of the other PBH members accounts (some positive, some negative) are so different. I do appreciate hearing the good and bad, so I am thankful for all of your accounts, suggestions, and advice. Thank you also for those of you who answered some of the questions on my list. I can definitely do jeans!

As always, I appreciate you all. You are great people to take time out of your day to help a stranger out.

CJW

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 22, 2006, 17:48:

It's always the same thing People don't come here looking for an honest opinion. They coming here to hear what they want to hear. It sounds like to me, like almost all others who come here, you have made up your mind that you are going, you just wanted some people to say...go for it. The people who gave you valid reasons not to go, you just shrugg off You fit the mold Southern....nothing new here. I noticed that in how you thanked all the people who gave you empty phrases as to why you should go, but when someone gives you a logical reason why you should not go, no comment on your end. Very strange, but typical happening here.

Look lady, Cali is not safe place for a single gringa to study. And to think that you can just rely on a friend's brother to be your guiding lignt, is kind of shallow. It's your life And you only have one. There are many places to go and study in latin American, why you would pick a place like Cali Colombia, is something you and only you would know.

BTW, Salsa is not opera. The songs don't exactly have these complex themes, and "involved: lyric content. That's comical. I have a selection of over 900 salsa Cds. It's the same subjects again and again. In fact, the only music that I know is more simplistic than salsa is Mexico's nortena. Now if you really want to study some complex themes in Latin American music, vallenatos, the dominant music in all of Colombia right now, clearly has some more interesting lyrics and themes than salsa.....no comparison. Vallenatos often is like a soap opera put to music. It is a commentary on life. But salsa???? I don't know what Salsa you are listening too.

Well what ever you decide to do.....good luck

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 22, 2006, 18:46:

To G5 First of all, let me say that I do take into consideration EVERY piece of advice, good or bad, and normally I try to respond to all posts (please reread my other posts). I may not have done that tonight, because there have been many responses since my last visit and I unfortunately do not have hours to sit here tonight and respond to each one. If I was only taking into account the positive things people had to say, then I still would not be in this dilemma and would've paid the necessary funds to start my program in Cali. However, after listening to also the negative stuff, I am very aprehensive about going. I just want to get a general consensus of what everyone thinks, and at this point there are mixed feelings about Cali.

As far as the brother is concerned, I do realize that I cannot totally depend on him. In fact, if he is anything like his brother who is here, he must be very unreliable! That was also another concern (which I addressed in a previous post) that he might not be there to help me and I would be on my own.

The salsa thing...my reason for choosing salsa music would have to be because I'm really into it (#1 reason). And yes, there are various themes that are expressed via salsa, some more meaningful than others. However, for a professional document like a thesis, my theme has to be focused, so therefore my selection of salsa music is also focused. I listen to the real consciencious salsa (artists such as Joe Arroyo, Fruko, Grupo Niche, just to name a few) who touch on real issues in some of their songs. Some of the songs that I have been working with, just to give you an idea, are "Rebelion," "Han cogido la cosa," "Colombia tierra querida", just to name a few. I'm looking at factors such as nationalism, racism, identity, etc. I am hoping to find other musical selections if I go to Colombia, because stuff like that is a little harder to find here. And I have not ruled out other genres. I cannot include them all, because as I mentioned the thesis has to be very focused, but I have considered other genres with significant lyrical content. If you could suggest some other styles to consider that would be great.

And, believe it or not, I have been looking at other countries for possible study. I will be going to PR in March for about a week, then Ecuador again this summer. People have been trying to convince me to go to Quito for a semester and study there, but from what I saw last summer there was not a big salsa scene, and to be quite honest I did not like it there. I loved it in Esmeraldas, but there is no school for me to study at. Plus it seemed to be all about reggaeton, and I'm not a big fan of that style of music.

So, in closing, I just wanted to let you know that I do consider what everyone says up here, be it good or bad. I am not 100% sold on Cali just yet, but doing what I think is right by being cautious and asking those who know. I appreciate your comments as well as the others.

Thanks for wishing me good luck

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 22, 2006, 19:29:

Thanks Southern Dyme for your personal response Interestingly enough, Joe Arroyo was really the only persons, (limited to the songs you mentioned, among a few others) that really gets into any social commentary. Niche??? Uh...great music, but "messages"??? I can't see it.

As to your assertion that Regaton is the wave in PR, I would say only to an extent. So has Bachata for that matter. But, the exact same is true for Salsa. Cali is not the hot spot for Salsa that it was back in the 90's and early 2000. Believe it or not, Bachata, and Regaton, as swept Cali as well. Look, if you are going to be doing some type of thesis on Salsa, how can you possible do a thesis about a form of music from a country that represents less than 3% of all the major salsa groups that really played a dominant role in the Salsa scene. As to Joe Arroyo, and Fruko, they barely qualify as a Salsa group, and traditionally are categorized under the general category of Salsa music. In fact, if you ask any Puerto Rican about their opinion the Salsa music of Joe Arroyo, most PRs will tell you they never even heard of him. That my friend is a fact.The bottom line is if you are going to be doing any kind of thesis on Salsa, Puerto Rico is the ONLY place you can go to really get a feel for the music and understand it in a way that will assist you in writing a thesis. While there may be a movement among today's youth toward other music, you fail to recognize that salsa is still so embedded in the music scene, music like regaton, and bachata will come and go, (as did merengue), while salsa will be around well into the next generation...

As to your safety.....look, forget this nonsense about the need to go to Cali for your thesis. Your safety should be a concern that will take precedent over any area of study.....Like I wrote earlier, PBH is not the place to ask people about safety and Colombia. I have been here a long time (comparitively speaking)and this is the last place you can go for an objective opinion....Check out the many other sites that speak to the issue of travel safety in general, and not a web site that speaks only about a given country. This web site is just a big cheering squad for Colombia, I often call it the unofficial extention of Colombia's bureau of tourism.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 22, 2006, 21:33:

I don't think reggaeton will go any more than merengue has gone. I still think Elvis Crespo and Olga Tañon are the bomb. Both of them Puerto Ricans by the way.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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litost says on Jan 23, 2006, 05:26:

Gomezman5, you really have a nack for sounding like an arrogant and intolerant modefoque... so it turns out your opinion is the ONLY one this girl should be listening to because the rest is just "empty phrases"? Anything said on here not in tune with your own personal bitter view of things should not even be taken into consideration?

"This web site is just a big cheering squad for Colombia" you say...

Well, we try to give balanced information, warn about possible risks... but HELL YEAH I think Colombia needs people to talk about the positive aspects, it's a freaking great place and worth the trouble even if you don't think so, why does in piss you off so much? Your condescending tone and lack of respect for others' opinions don't speak very well of you and undermine the validity of what you say.

Whatever your decision Southern Dyme, I wish you mucha suerte, and hope you keep seing the glass half full not like some other lost cases...

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Albatross says on Jan 23, 2006, 06:03:

"Han cogido la cosa" rocks with extreme prejudice... awesome percussion and the trumpets are PERFECT... (will you marry me ?)

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Albatross says on Jan 23, 2006, 06:09:

But... Gomezman5 is close to the mark... no way is Cali "safe" for a Gringa Tourist.

What I think is funny is how many "native" Colombians here at PBH trip all over themselves to downplay the danger in Colombia... even though the statistics are unambigious and irrefutable. Some even insist that Colombian cities are safer than American cities... (excuse me a moment while I laugh myself silly)

What they fail to point out is that while a native Colombian may be able to go about their life in Colombia in relative safety (although native Colombians get robbed or killed all the time) a Tourist, especially a single woman, is a very different story. Tourists are targets... always... everywhere.

On the other hand, life is full of risk, so if you want to go, then go. If you get back unscathed (and you probably will... you would have to be pretty unlucky to have major problems on your first trip) then you can brag to your friends about your bravado and skill as a single girl facing danger alone. (Who knows, maybe you'll even learn something ;-)

Good Luck...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 23, 2006, 06:20:

UC reggaeton? restregon more like it...

engage brain before opening mouth

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caslug says on Jan 23, 2006, 10:56:

salsa in cali.. I've been to TONS of salsa clubs in CALI and observe the dancing. While every COL(in any city) dance salsa BETTER than in the USA. 80% of the men only know the basic steps, 20% are VERY GOOD and VERY fun to watch. The good ones do very intricate moves and you can actually learn from them watching them.

As for reggaeton, MOST young kids(25 or under) are going to techno/hip hop club NOT to salsa clubs. At TRUE salsa clubs you see more late twenties or up. In cali, there's a very popular(expensive) place to see live band playing good salsa(it's in the Hotel Torres), the majority of the customer are mid/late twenties and up. Even in Avendia Sexta which is the main strip for salsa clubs, reggaeton/spanish rock is get's half the play, Cali only has a few clubs that's exclusive for salsa(teinda vieja comes to mind, but that place is ONLY popular sunday evening.)

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 23, 2006, 12:37:

Por que dices este, Kat? Esto Por que dices esto, Kat? Estoy parte mongolico y no te entendí.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Monpirri says on Jan 23, 2006, 14:51:

If you really want to go to Cali, go to Cali!! If you want to travel to foreign city, listen to the people who live there or have family in that city. For instance, if you want to travel to New York, you don't go and buy the Dallas Morning News to find out more about NYC.
Never mind the news from other countries, friends or foes, and never mind the paranoid comments from people who are not savvy travelers, or comments from people who do not travel to that city or country all the time!
Let me share this, when I traveled to Colombia for the first time, I was born in Colombia, I heard lots of negative comments on traveling to Colombia from the media in the states. I have also noticed the same routine news here on PBH, "US State Department Counselor information/travel advisory about Colombia" the very same rhetoric I experienced about eight years ago when I decided to travel to Bogotá, Medellín, Villavicencio and Cali!
Even my own family discouraged me back then and now to travel to Colombia, why? Because they were and they are still over saturated with the ongoing negative press, but I went there anyway and I had a great time and I did not experience any of the terror broadcasted on by the concerned press.
Of course, I did not look for trouble, or visited notorious areas or spent all my free time in bars. I say, use your comment sense and stay away from places that are notorious for trouble. If you cannot tell which places not to visit, ask your instructors, classmates or let us know on this site.
Please, do travel within the city with your new acquaintances at all the times! Even soldiers travel in couples when they are touring a city.
By the way, you do not need "friends" waiting for you in the city to enjoy your visit there. You will gain lots of honest friends over there and many Colombians do care and welcome visitors.

Last thing, while in Colombia, write an empirical thesis about Colombia's national music, "Cumbia" and you will discover Colombia’s culture!
“Cumbia is the queen of Colombian tropical rhythms. There is the aesthetic value of the dance itself, the colorful dress of the dancers, the ever present joy in its performance and the distinctive flavor of the coastal region where it was born.�
GONZALEZ SALSAMANIA
Cumbia is several centuries old and its roots have touched various popular music today, the other music you intend to write about, which it is a nice music too, it has been adapted in Cali.
Learn more about cumbia here: http://www.cumbiaspirit.com/

Enjoy Colombia and Cali!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 23, 2006, 21:19:

Albatross, You are a sensible guy and litost....well.... Litost, look, you are the guy that makes posts in one thread, that are responses to posts in other threads. And anyone who uses the words "mododfoque" makes a statement about realm he/she is coming from in the first place. Helllllloooo litost.

Albatross, I'm happy to see you were able to understand why I think a gringa might want to find another place, a safer place, to study other than Cali. It kind of astonishes me how people like litost, has a hard time recognizing obvious.....unless.....unless.....he is a member of the cheering squad that views all the negative publicity about security in Colombia as a bunch of lies. Have I got it right litost????

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juanalejo says on Jan 24, 2006, 04:14:

G5, why can you not present your own opinion as such without having to disqualify others by insulting them. If Litost has a different point of view, maybe he does have a different experience, is it that difficult for you to accept that? I was in Cali in December I saw a lot of gringos, not sure if most of them had family with them, probably, but still quite a few gringos. My own family gringos were also there, they moved around comfortably on their own and nothing happened to them. So please do respect others opinions that are as valid as yours, with the big difference that ours are from the local point of view and yours from long a way Chicago point of view. And yes Cali is not the safest of cities, but neither is Rio de Janeiro and lots of American flock to that place every year. Maybe because those who go there are those who know how to travel, if you don´t, then stay out of Colombia also.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 24, 2006, 08:18:

Look Juanalejo.....read before you type In all of my posts in this thread, I never said a word about litost. Then, out of nowhere, he starts hurling personal attacks about me. For example:
1. "your own personal bitter view of things should not even be taken into consideration?"

2."Your condescending tone and lack of respect for others'"

So, the above comments about me, don't warrant a response. Quit changing the context, and stick with the fact as they were set forth. The bottom line is if you are going to come after me, you become fair game for an attack FROM me as well.

And lastly Juan, when it comes to negative comments, and sarcasm, you are right up there with the best of em'.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 24, 2006, 08:23:

By the way Juan...Rio? Rio? You are actually going to compare Rio to Cali. Now that is about as comical as it gets. First of all. Juan, what are you taking this morning? Because you better lay off that stuff. Cali has never, and will never be the vacatio mecca that Rio is. Second of all, last I knew, Cali does not have a beach, nor does it have an ocean for that matter. That's just for starters.

While Rio has seen an increase in crime, very little of it has been against tourists (aside from common street crime)how can you possible compare the two cities? really....

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Rikito says on Jan 24, 2006, 08:58:

ummm not so fast check out http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13497283,00.html

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 24, 2006, 11:55:

OK Rikito,,,,,,,so what's your point? A bus load of tourists get held up on the way from the airport in Rio, and that incident in and of itself puts Rio on the same level as Cali Colombia? That evidence is rather anecdotal. Don't you think?

I remember when European tourists were getting robbed in Miami as they drove away from the rental car establishments on the way to Miami Beach. One guy was killed. After that, it was reported in many tourist magazines throughout the world how dangerous it was to go to Miami. Well, the City of Miami put up better signage, some more law enforcment, and finally, caught the guys responsible for the hold ups and the killing. Bingo, problem solved. After that, Miami Beach tourism rebounded, and in fact increased All was forgotten.

The same goes for Rio. There are going to be criminals everywhere from time to time. But Cali....uh excuse me. With a guerilla/civil war, kidnappings, extorsion, and almost relentless street crime, and you are going to compare it to Rio? Yea sure....some comparison

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litost says on Jan 24, 2006, 13:47:

Sorry if it seems like an insult G5, I'm just calling them like I see them. Not being as fluent as yourself in english (not my native language) it's harder for me to insult others and be cynical between lines. Anyways, getting into personal arguements over the internet is stupid, all I really would like is for you to show a little more respect for dissenting views and imagine at least for a minute that others may have experiences just as valid as yourself to share.

Of course Cali is not as safe as american or european cities, of course she would have to be extra careful, of course it would be wiser to maybe try Bogota, Medellin or Cartagena... but all that said if she is set on going to Cali than all I can do is wish her good luck and to have fun, all things taken into the account the actual chances of something really bad happening to you are very slim if you keep out of trouble. And I do think that there are many other cities in LA just as dangerous as Cali.

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juanalejo says on Jan 24, 2006, 13:52:

Rio G5, you definitelly do not know Rio, or the kidnap rate on that city, or the crime statistics, or the homicide rate, so lets stop it here. Just go back to your own Chicago, it seems that is the only place you seem to any thing real about. Let me think, I was there in November and my hotel staff would not allow me to walk out with my watch on. And my company had a bullet proof car for me to move around. Let me think, it must have been to prevent me from falling in love with a darling carioca. Now is Rio a horrible place, no, on the contrary but once you get the hang of it, you can easily move around. But then again same goes for Cali.

Southern_Dyme: You problably are fed up with all this useless crap, the same all year round. Those who want to justify why them or their wifes should live abroad vs. those who live here and see things from a different perspective. The truth should be some where in the middle, and you will have to guess it or experience it on your own. If you are heading to Quito take a short visit to Cali. Quito, of which you say you know about, does not have a very good reputation in real traveller forums like Lonely Planet, contrary to most peoples opinion on Cali or for that matter most of Colombia.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 24, 2006, 14:36:

Look litost Everyone has their style of writing. And by the way, your English is excellent so you don't have any reason to defend yourself in that area.

Also, if you want to participate in/on PBH, you have to have thick skin. That particularly applies to me. I put for logical common sense arguments, and for the most part, these arguments are demurred, and people come back with the same old sillines. "Go and have a good time." "Be extra carefull". I could say the same about going to Iraq, or some other country similarly situated. It still would not make any sense. Just ask that young female journalist who was kidnapped in Iraq. I am sure everyone told her it would be ok to go. They probably told her all the lines that people here tell people about going to Cali. Same nonsense, same result...

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 24, 2006, 16:50:

To G5...about the salsa Actually, Grupo Niche has quite a few songs that deal with real topics. I'm not saying that every single song on their album does, but I have found a good amount that do.

And please believe me when I say that my safety is my primary concern. I can't complete my thesis and research if anything happens to me, so of course that is #1.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 24, 2006, 16:55:

Albatross Yeah that song is right on point. I love it, and it works very well for the arguments I am presenting in my thesis. Now, on what you had to say about being a gringa in Cali...what do you think about Cartagena? I know that several members have mentioned to me that it is very safe. When I looked it up, I noticed that it was on the coast (not a very big turn on, because it must be hot and humid, whereas from what I've been told, Cali is just hot...LOL). Also, is it very touristy? Whatever city I go with, I want it to have an authentic flair, and most tourist spots try to cater to their visitors by adding elements that are considered "agreeable" to them. Is there any salsa in CTG?

Thanks!

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 24, 2006, 16:59:

Caslug Thanks for the suggestions on salsa clubs. If you say that 80% of the men know the basics, then that works for me. One thing I'm not too keen on is what I call "ballroom salsa"...LOL. Those are the spots that salsa for show, and in my opinion less for enjoyment. The places I go here attract a lively audience who just like to dance, feel the music, and have fun. And the "late twenties and up" crowd...I can get with that. Being 25 myself, that sounds perfect for me.

Thanks again.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 24, 2006, 17:03:

Monpirri Thank you for being so informative. And you have given me another angle for possible study...cumbia! I am not sure if I have heard cumbia (I probably have and just did not know the name of the genre). Can you suggest any songs/artists so that I can look them up and hear what it sounds like? Is there any specific part of Colombia where cumbia is more prominent?

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 24, 2006, 17:07:

Juanalejo What are they saying about Quito (besides there not being much to do...LOL). I will see what I can do about travelling there. It might be a little difficult, because the month that I will spend in Quito/surrounding areas will be as a tour leader for a bunch of college students, so I won't have the liberty to travel much. I'll have to check out that site you mentioned.

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adela says on Jan 24, 2006, 20:07:

from my caleña perspective

Cali is what Desi and others are describing: more secure than you imagine or equal to big cities in the world: good and bad places to stay.

Recently, I realized Cali is safer than I imagined: a member of PBH, arrived to Cali and called me at 10:00 pm asking me for some place to stay. He remarked his biggest concern: lower price of rental. The taxy driver took him to the cheaper hotel in the very "olla" of Cali (next to Hospital San Juan de Dios, you know Desi, what I'm saying). He prefered to stay there until find some apartment for USD 100 month apartment (!!).

Some days later, he is ok,found his apartment and seem interested in visiting the hotel again just in case. He walks the zone around and have a security tips. I hope he read this and post his view of Cali and the dangerous zone.


Then, Southern- Dyme I could say: stay aware but enjoy Cali. Yes, Cali is the ideal place to compose your thesis!!

http://www.caliescali.com/salsaysalsa.php3

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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adela says on Jan 24, 2006, 20:07:

from my caleña perspective

Cali is what Desi and others are describing: more secure than you imagine or equal to big cities in the world: good and bad places to stay.

Recently, I realized Cali is safer than I imagined: a member of PBH, arrived to Cali and called me at 10:00 pm asking me for some place to stay. He remarked his biggest concern: lower price of rental. The taxy driver took him to the cheaper hotel in the very "olla" of Cali (next to Hospital San Juan de Dios, you know Desi, what I'm saying). He prefered to stay there until find some apartment for USD 100 month apartment (!!).

Some days later, he is ok,found his apartment and seem interested in visiting the hotel again just in case. He walks the zone around and have a security tips. I hope he read this and post his view of Cali and the dangerous zone.


Then, Southern- Dyme I could say: stay aware but enjoy Cali. Yes, Cali is the ideal place to compose your thesis!!

http://www.caliescali.com/salsaysalsa.php3

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 24, 2006, 20:41:

Southern dyme Look, you said it yourself. Your safety is your primary concern. And your thesis is well.......just that, your thesis. No thesis is sacrificing your life.

Maybe I can sum it up this way. You have heard a bunch of people (I'm not one of them) that tell you it's ok for you to go. A few tell you not to go. If you are a thesis candidate, than I am sure you are smart enough to go to NEUTRAL sites to investigate the safety issue in regards to Cali, and Colombia in general. I an CERTAIN, you will get an opinion that runs contrary to the dominant theme you are reading here. Now that said, why should Cali even be an issue at this point? As far as I am concerned, if there even a minimal chance that your safety might be compromised, isn't that a reason right there, in and of itself to nix this trip. In other words, since safety IS an issue, and the issue in and of itself in in contorversy, Why would you even have Cali on the map at this point? I am 100 % certain, that if you told your parent or boyfriend that there is a safety issue, they would tell you, "look sweetie, doing a thesis on Salsa is great but, find another place to study Salsa." Or to put it another way, if you decided to go to Puerto Rico to do your thesis on Salsa, the safety issue would not even be an issue....period.

I can't help but reiterate, Colombia's contribution to Salsa is barely on the map. The amount of groups that contributed to Salsa's folkloric days or modern days can be counted on ONE HAND. Even Colombians that like to talk about the likes of groups like Guayacan, are not even heard up in the Salsa world at large. In other words, if you go to Puerto Rico, or the Dominican Republic, or Venezuela, Guayacan would not even be heard of in most circles. But Colombian act like this groups rival groups like El Gran Combo. To write a good thesis in any area, you need a diverse range of information and subjects. I have a hard time understanding how Cali would be an ideal place to do your thesis where to put it bluntly......the pickings are few. Grupo Nich, Jow Arroyo, and FRuko y tus tesos, is not exactly what I would call a broad subject range to study. State simply, Cali is not the place to do the thesis and Puerto Rico is rivaled by no other place.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 24, 2006, 22:49:

Having been to Puerto Rico several times, I think I'd rather take my chances in Colombia when it comes to safety. Still, if studying salsa was my objective, I would have to choose Cuba and Puerto Rico.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Jan 24, 2006, 23:01:

Study Salsa... No need to travel overseas--Come to Miami !!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Monpirri says on Jan 25, 2006, 05:33:

Southern_Dyme I have posted several threads about Cumbia here on PBH. Unfortunately, Cumbia does not have a lot of back up by some natives because they are always going to like the foreign influence. Cumbia is prominent in Medellin and la Costa and in the Pacific Coast.
If you are daring you can still write about Cumbia, it needs a positive journalistic contribution since this genre is a veteran in age and still rocking and you can also write about Colombian Salsa. Cali holds the second place in the world in this class.
I will find out the artists and the great Cumbia songs soon.

P.S. I like Salsa music also, but Cumbia is 100% Colombian and it needs a fair exposure,honor and credit.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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litost says on Jan 25, 2006, 05:49:

G5, you say you "put for logical common sense arguments" and then go off comparing Cali to Iraq!!! Anybody with a little common sense, and heck even current events knowledge, knows this is a ridiculously inaccurate comparison. It seriously makes me doubt just how much you really know about Colombia. BTW, I am no salsa expert so I could not give an academic opinion to the thesis subject... but I do know salsa is big in Cali, it is a passion, intricated with the culture and history of the city, still very authentic, so I think it is exactly what Southern Dyme is looking for. Cali has some serious crime problems, and honestly is far from my favorite city in Colombia, but I feel my duty to insist that it's not a warzone since some want to make it out as so, it has plenty of nice neighborhoods, malls, restaurants, cafes, good universities, friendly and positive people, beautiful surroundings, etc... definitely worth it!

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Monpirri says on Jan 25, 2006, 06:18:

GringoD "Wear sunglasses with mirrors on them, (and don't forget to check the mirrors, every once in awhile.)"
That is funny!! I would like to buy a pair of those glasses for my next trip, do they sale them in Cali?

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 25, 2006, 08:21:

GringoD....you have a point.... "I think GM5 forgets what it is like to be 23 or 25 years old. Most, I think, are/were willing to take more risks in our youth"

I think that is probably the most valid post in this entire thread. I do lose track of that sometimes. However, I am not so sure that just because youth are willing to be more adventurous, that it is such a good idea. When you get older, you do get more conservative and cautious.

Litost, I'll agree with you in that it was a leap to compare Cali, with Iraq. There is no comparison in terms of level of danger. However, my point was that Cali is far above average in terms of levels of danger. That being the case would be sufficient enough reason to tell a young female American girl, who has never been to Cali, who has no family in Cali, and whose degree of Spanish is questionable to the extent that would certainly be identified as non Colombian,to not go to Cali to study for her thesis.

When it comes to your life, there are no second chances. And, she does not belong there given the circumstances that she is describing.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 26, 2006, 17:08:

In response to your post GringoD I will have to reread the safety guides, as you suggested. It has definitely been a while since I've looked at them. And yes, I have a pretty decent level of Spanish. I pretty much understand everything that is being said to me, and although I may not speak it as fast as some might, I do not have too much trouble communicating in the language. So yes, that does take off the pressure of being able to get my points across, and I'm not concerned with that part at all. I just want to be safe wherever I go, so that is my main concern at this point.

The people were very friendly in Quito. In fact, that is the principal reason I'll be there again this summer for a month. When I went last summer, I had the chance to take classes, volunteer with the youth, and do a lot of traveling around the country. It was beautiful, but I spent most of my time in Quito, and in my opinion there wasn't much to do. Had it not been for the rest of the people in the group I went with, I would've lost my mind in boredom...LOL.

When I go to Colombia, it will definitely be by air. I don't think I could stand a ride that long...hehehehe. Thanks for your comments.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 26, 2006, 17:12:

Replying to GringoD's 2nd post If I go it will be for an extended period of time (a whole semester), so I wouldn't be able to stay at the hotel the entire time. And anything remotely relating to politics is off my list. If I even hear the word política, I'm going to respond: ¿Política? ¿Qué es esto? LOL.

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Southern_Dyme says on Jan 26, 2006, 17:24:

Well actually...(to G5) ...I have told my family about my decision, as I always consult them on something major like this. My grandmother hates my decision, but that's nothing new, because she was the same way when I went for a semester in Mexico and to Ecuador last summer. My mother, well, she is torn. She wants me to be happy and do what I think is best for my educational and long-term goals, but she wants to make sure everything is legit at the same time. The boyfriend situation...well, let's just say we decided to go our separate ways because we both have very different interests in life and do not see eye to eye.

Maybe you are right about Colombia's salsa contribution. I cannot give an opinion in this area because I can only base my opinion upon the various Colombian artists I have listened to (some of which I've named for you in a previous post). Yes, Puerto Rico may have more to contribute to salsa. But the content of the music to me is more important than the actual music itself. And from what I've seen, the lyrics that might be considered "more controversial" do not get as much play as other lyrics that talk about love, women, etc.

I will have a chance to see how I like PR. I'm going there for a week (spring break) to do a conference, so I plan to do a little research there if I have time. I have a friend who is studying in PR right now and she hates it. We are somewhat alike, and from the stuff she tells me, I don't think I would like it there. She has also been to DR and from her accounts I do not want to go there either.

I really do appreciate your concern, and I will take into account everything you've mentioned, as well as that of other PBH members and my Colombian friends.