Will US Iraq pullout date mean more involvement in Colombia?

Bruce V. Shrader says on May 2, 2005, 05:55:

I don't think so, if the United States had wanted to do that,
They would have done it prior to this war in Iraq.

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RALPHIE says on May 3, 2005, 09:40:

us iraq pull out I agree with bruce, US would have done long time ago during the cartel era, now it is impossible it would be another vietnam, mountains, villages and too many enemies ( farc, eln, militia, and the good old street crime........and the drug cartels wich are alive and well unfortunaly). Colombia and Wasington are partners for other causes.

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RALPHIE says on May 3, 2005, 09:43:

looking for friends and maybe a job i came to colombia 4 months ago and i am spending too much time home, few friends and i feel like i need to make some money doing anything, i was born in medellin but after so many years un the united states all around me seems like a another country not my own.if someone wants to give me a hand and get me aout of my apartment...please reply.

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Miguel says on May 3, 2005, 10:34:

RALPHIE You need to post this somewhere else...Zagarise can help you if you don't know how to do it.;-)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 3, 2005, 11:46:

I don't see the USA withdrawing troops from irak,they are going to be there for a long time.

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Bruce V. Shrader says on May 3, 2005, 19:17:

The USA will withdraw ON AOL, there is a poll going on.
The poll is whether or not the USA
made a mistake in going into Iraq and
taking out Saddam Hussein.
ded.
Result of poll (as of today) is 82% AGAINST this war.

Remember, Bush's reason for going there was Weapons of Mass Destruction. None have been found and the hunt for them is ended.

Bush wanted this war becaause he wanted to be a War Time President.
It backfired on him.

Now, his reason is because Hussein was killing and tortureing people. This place has been fighting for 1,600 years! And it isn't
about to stop now. How many of our troops have been killed?
How many Iraquians?

Iraq has turned into another Vietnam. Look at what happened there.
Is Vietnam a free country? NO, It's a communist country.

This is a STUPID war! Just like Vietnam was.
Fought for a dumb reason. If Bush is not careful,
he will go down in history as a failure.

That's another reason why the USA will not come to Colombia.
I don't think the American people would allow it, it would be
another Guerilla war..

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Sr Tertius says on May 3, 2005, 20:18:

" Is Vietnam a free country? NO, It's a communist country." Because, God forbid, communists are not "free", right?

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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juancegomez says on May 5, 2005, 19:12:

The U.S. will not invade Colombia in a Vietnam-fashion because, precisely, the trauma of Vietnam still haunts that nation.

And since Vietnam had many jungles and so does part of Colombia, a quick but completely flawed logical operation is made.

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 19:29:

G5, good to have you back! Area of Colombia: 1,140,000 sq. km.
Area of Vietnam: 330,000 sq. km.

Number of USA troops deployed in Vietnam: 500,000+ (and they got kicked out)
Number of Troops needed in Colombia: 1,500,000+ (and they still might get kicked out)

Ipso facto, ergo sum, and all those other fancy Latin words I'm sure G5 understands:

It is not the common jungles, or the trauma, it's that the USA is bogged down elsewhere, and simply does not have over 1.5+ million troops to commit to do the job right in Colombia. It's a military fact.

Swami Plátano, el banano loco vidente
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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vladimiro says on May 5, 2005, 19:41:

Iraq similar to American Civil War A historian recently briefed the Pentagon on the parralles between North's reconstruction efforts in the South after the Civil War and the current situation in Iraq. If interested, below is a fascinating article from Lebanon's DAILY STAR English language newspaper:

" For a time, it still seemed that reconstruction might work. "In 1870, things looked pretty good - if not rosy, at least optimistic," But the insurgency was potent and took more than 1,000 lives. Along with the Ku Klux Klan, there were underground groups....Northern investors pulled back from projects in the South and turned their attention to the West. The troops occupying the South were withdrawn. White Southerners, defeated in war, had won the peace. The South slipped into more than 80 years of racism."

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=14804

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 20:51:

Vladimiro, I don't know that the civil war analogy works. What is happening in Iraq is not the result of a civil war, it is the result of an illegal invasion of a sovereign country which Koffi Anan clearly said was illegal and in violation of the UN Charter. Dubya will be tried and imprisoned for war crimes someday.

There are parallels in terms of the long lasting mess created. But there are also fundamental differences in the way time is experienced. USA people want instantaneous results. They think in terms of years or decades. Osama is still musing over the loss of Spain in the 15th century and has a more leisurely time frame. After all it is all in Allah's hands anyway. So if the next attacks don't happen till 2007 or 2009 so be it, but it will make the World Trade Center attack look insignificant.

The guerrillas in Colombia are not religious but they do take a longer term view. They told me their "ceasefires" are not really ceasefires. They are lies. They are just breathers to regroup and continue the fight. They see themselves in Round Two of a Twelve Round fight. What's more they see the Colombian state as weak with little popular support and they see themselves as superior. (Maybe every soldier needs to see their side as superior, or why even go fight?) They don't respect the ability of the average Colombian soldier who has a year or two experience and see themselves as hardened and experienced fighters with decades of experience. (Hello, Mr. H.! The Swedish girls are really nice!)

This most recent conflict with insurgents has been going on for only four decades. The guerrillas are in it for the long haul. The Colombian public might decide someday not to re-elect Uribe. Whoever is elected will not be more hard-line than Uribe. The guerrillas will be bolstered by knowing they had the gumption to fight the toughest hombre; anyone else will be easy to deal with.

Swami Plátano, el banano loco vidente
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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juancegomez says on May 5, 2005, 20:51:

RE: platano

Of course, that's an important reason which is definitely a factual and unavoidable obstacle, in purely military terms, but in front of the average U.S. citizen and congressman (or congresswoman, for that matter), such stereotypes as those I mentioned may probably have some
noticeable degree of importance, depending on the individual.

PS: When did I become "G5"? Can't really remember...No tengo buena memoria, al menos no ahora...

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 20:58:

Juancegomez, I'm sorry... my feeble mind confused you... with G5.
Re: your comments. Yes, you are correct that the impression lingers in the minds of average USA citizens and representatives. It haunts them.

Quien es G5? Tanto tiempo sin verlo. Confundí las identidades. :(

Swami Plátano, el banano loco vidente
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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utopiacowboy says on May 5, 2005, 21:11:

I saw the title of this thread and I just KNEW that it had to have been started by Platano. Most Americans don't give a flying F**K about the rest of the world and unlike our president, we would just as soon mind our own GD business. Our own business does not include Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 21:26:

UTC, thank you for your vote of confidence, Before 9/11 Colombia was on the front burners and scheduled to get a lot more attention. Groundwork was laid. FARC was officially placed on the terrorist list. Congress increased the number of "advisors" who could legally be in Colombia. Ways were being worked on to exceed that number by "outsourcing" the work to private mercenaries. Then... BAMMM... Colombia got moved to the backburner.

It really has nothing to do with what "most Americans" want. The USA is not a real democracy. Citizens don't know how much is being spent on illegal CIA armies/wars, the representatives vote on legislation without even reading it first. USA is a joke of a republic. But Colombia will be on the receiving end of the neo-con manipulation of what disguises itself as a "democracy". Colombia will be remembered again once the USA gets itself out of the briarpatch called Iraq.

Swami Plátano, el banano loco vidente
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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juancegomez says on May 5, 2005, 21:29:

Nice thoughts from UC, for a change...let's hope that one day the U.S. government does mind its own business (and not play to its direct and indirect business interests and international political powergames, as it currently does). Though in hindsight, I really can't imagine that the U.S. will *fully* withdraw from the rest of the world into itself, at least not anytime soon and in a sound manner, but the nature of the United States' involvement *can* certainly change eventually (for better or for worse, as it may be, but I don't have a crystal ball handy).

PS: The U.S. may not be a "democracy", but then again no perfectly defined and funcitioning "democracies" in the "complete" meaning of the term really exist anywhere in the world, for that matter...

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 21:50:

Well, Colombia probably has a longer democratic tradition.... and certainly countries like Canada have longer democratic traditions. Democracy in the USA is only 40 years old. It was only 1965 when the Voting Rights Act guaranteed the vote to all citizens in the USA. Someday maybe the millions of convicted felons who have served their time and paid their debt to society will be allowed to vote.

Does Colombia allow ex-cons to vote in elections?

Swami Plátano, el banano loco
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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platano says on May 6, 2005, 08:04:

Keep it related to Latin America and Colombia... Tinto,

I apologize. I did get carried away and I have no one to blame except for one of my selves. :)

Thank you for keeping the forum on topic: Colombia.

Do the rules only apply if an "anti-U.S." rant is involved?

Respectfully,

Platano

plátano

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 6, 2005, 09:55:

Reasons why the US will never invade Colombia: #1 Colombia has a friendly government
#2 Tirofijo never tried to whack George W. Bush's father.
#3 Not nearly enough oil
#4 Strategically, the location just isn't that important
#5 Colombians look, talk and dress like us
#6 Except for the fact that they're mostly Catholic, Colombians are Christians, so the neo-con fundamentalists get no points in heaven for "converting" or "subduing" heathens.

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ColombianoX says on May 6, 2005, 13:22:

"#4 Strategically, the location just isn't that important"

Colombia's location is very important, it's at the heart of our hemisphere and is the bridge between south and north america. You probably mean that it's not important to the US government.


#5 Colombians look, talk and dress like us

What do you mean colombians talk like "us", colombians speak spanish.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 6, 2005, 13:38:

ColombianoX
"Talk like us": There are an estimated 40 million native Spanish speakers in the US, and a lot of gringos like me who have bothered to learn it as a 2nd language. More than that, I mean that culturally, people in the US and Colombia tend to be interested in similar things and are quite alike, more so than we're different. You can't exactly say the same thing about Iraq or Afghanistan.

"Strategically Important": Yes, I meant to the US. The US doesn't invade countries because they're strategically important to, say, Bolivia.

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ColombianoX says on May 7, 2005, 08:17:

"There are an estimated 40 million native Spanish speakers in the US,"

There are en estimiated 40 million HISPANICS in the US, not native spanish speakers. Remember, not all US hispanics speak spanish.


CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 7, 2005, 19:14:

Okay then I stand corrected. According to the US Census Bureau it's about 28 million who speak Spanish as their primary language. http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/census_2000/001406.html

Regardless of the exact number, I'm sure you understand my point. That makes the USA the 4th most populous Spanish speaking country after Mexico, Spain and Colombia.

There's nothing alien about Spanish or hispanic culture to most of the US.

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cascabel says on May 14, 2005, 07:26:

hispanic culture nothing alien for hispanic culture all things j lopez, garcia marquez or shakira
but i don't think you holliwood or many gringos can actually say to know 'hispanic culture', have you read carpenter or cortazar or vallejo i.e.? and there is lot more to it that i wish i could know myself. you come across as a bit arrogant and monolithic with all due respect :)

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utopiacowboy says on May 14, 2005, 14:00:

You got it, Mr. Hollywood. I get tired of these characters lecturing us. Give us some time and we will be the third most populous Spanish-speaking country. BTW, even though a lot of Hispanics don't speak Spanish, you would be amazed at the number of gringos who do. My wife encounters gringos who can speak good Spanish here all the time. Which isn't doing her English any good....

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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