why spanish is best spoken in Colombia than in Spain?

Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 18:46:

Gabolicious, I was watching one night "Hablando claro con la prensa" a high profile talk show in Colombia and a Spaniard journalist said that the spanish spoken in Colombia is better than the one spoken in Spain.
If you have DirectTV you can see "Hablando Claro con la Prensa"

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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gabolicious says on Jul 13, 2007, 18:53:

You're right "Hablando claro..." I have heard about it but haven't watch it... but pls when you have some time, let me know what your thoughts are... why do you think colombian spanish is the best?. I think so, I really do, but I am not so sure if my reasons to believe so are that strong enough... or is it about nacionalismo colombiano as my friend said?

Elección no canonización....

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Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:04:

Colombians with good command of the language when they talk they are very colorful with adjectives, they have a large number of words to pull out their hats, and they love to elaborate a long or short story with a skillful decription of the events. They pronounce the words with great care as possible. In my humble opinion, they are devoted artists who love paint the language. They just love speak the language with gusto!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:07:

Colombians with good command of the language when they talk they are very colorful with adjectives, they have a large number of words to pull out of their hats, and they love to elaborate a long or short story with a skillful decription of the events. They pronounce the words with great care as possible. In my humble opinion, they are devoted artists who love paint the language. They just love to speak the language with gusto!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Miguel says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:09:

"but I have never read some facts about the reasons of why colombian spanish is the best... "

Es porque no hay prueba.

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Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:14:

They proof is in the lyrics of the songs, listen to talk shows in Colombia, listen to the scholars in Colombia, reading the novels written by Colombian writers, listen to Colombians on radio, for exaple Hammer Londoño, the only one I can remember now. Listen to famous novelas reaching the US and other countries and talking to Spaniards who visit Colombia as tourist or as journalists.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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bueno_pues says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:27:

Que bobos! Los colombianos y su espanol. Y por que es importante? Cuando no tengas nada sobre de estar orgulloso, creo que las facistas utilizar estas cosas por ayuda. Es una accidente de nacido que pais vives o que idioma es su nativo.

Imagina si los gringos estan hablando que su ingles es el mejor del mundo? Todos pensaria y con razon que ellos son idiotas.

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Miguel says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:38:

Oye Monpirri, like I am going to buy into your bullshit..."They proof", "for exaple"

I know Mexicans who speak and write both English and Spanish better than you do!

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Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:48:

Bobos? Para lo que no dominan el español bien, o son de otra cultura anglosajona como vos. Utiopiacowboy

Miguel, I agree with you, but I have stated a fact, Colombians have a good command of the language and therefore they are appreciated by those who have command of the Spanish language. You on the other hand, have an Spanish name but do know Spanish very well but yet you want to state your opinion on this topic. Yep, it's very interesting your comment.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 19:51:

You on the other hand, have Spanish name but do not know Spanish very well but yet you want to state your opinion on this topic. Yep, it's very interesting your comment.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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gabolicious says on Jul 13, 2007, 20:05:

hey chill out guys!! Bueno_pues no es que sea importante o no el español de colombia, tal vez no me expliqué... yo solo quiero saber la opinión de todos ustedes sobre el tema... es solo que yo tengo mi opinión y quiero conocer la opinión de los demás eso es todo!!! si por querer saber lo que los demás piensan soy idiota, "bueno_pues" lo acepto soy idiota ni modo!, dime idiota si digo "mi pelota es más grande que la tuya" pero no me digas idiota si quiero saber la opinión de los demás... a diferencia del tema aburrido de las nacionalidades (qué cansones somos con eso). Ahora la opinión sobre el español es a nivel hispanoparlante, no es que solo los colombianos lo digamos, lo dicen todos los que saben del idioma... pero yo preguntaba... "por qué ustedes creen que sea así?"

Elección no canonización....

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Miguel says on Jul 13, 2007, 20:08:

"Have Spanish name"...Yeah, dude, if I were a latino, I would be called Miguel, but I am a gringo just being tagged by my latino buddies as "Miguel". As far as my ability to "know Spanish very well", tu tienes razón. (Y amí me importa un jopo) ¿Entiendes? I will keep on learning so I can be as smooth as you Monpirri.

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Monpirri says on Jul 13, 2007, 20:09:

Yo me voy a retirar para que otros opinen sobre tu tema, pero quiero que sepas que los dos personajes que han puesto sus conocimientos academicos sobre la lengua española no son hispanoparlantes.

Buenas noches compadre Gabolicious.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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gabolicious says on Jul 13, 2007, 20:17:

Por cierto tenemos muchísimas cosas para estar orgullosos aparte del idioma... Muchas naciones de América Latina están copiando ideas colombianas, por ejemplo en transporte (trasmilenio para ser más exactos), o también vos sabés acaso lo que es el Plan Colombia y como ha llamado la atención de otras naciones? Vos sabés que Colombia ha mejorado radicalmente, por ejemplo económicamente (aclaro hay mucho por hacer, pero vamos caminando)? Vos sabés por qué Bogotá fué designada como la capital mundial del Libro y por qué tuvo lugar la feria internacional del libro también en Bogotá a inicios de este año, para ser más exactos en Abril? no creo que sea por la cara bonita de nosotros los colombianos, o si? decíme entonces si vos crees eso... las rosas Colombianas son toda una industria, al café a nivel mundial lo identifican con el logo de juan Valdez... vos sabés todo eso? no voy a entrar en detalle... no creo que quieras perder tu tiempo en leer lo que un idiota como yo escribe... ¿cierto?

Elección no canonización....

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gabolicious says on Jul 13, 2007, 20:20:

Buenas noches hermano Monpirri, también me voy a descansar....

Elección no canonización....

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 13, 2007, 21:33:

gabo..you are too funny....."la tuya" belongs in the You Might Be A Mexican Thread.....jajjai ..i havent heard La Tuya! in a long time....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 13, 2007, 22:13:

well, to be honest, noone has heard any other poster speak spanish unless they have met....so to blast each other is pointless.....i was in Peru eating at a chinese restaurant in Lima a few years back...the waitress, obviously chinese, had some of the smoothest spanish i have ever heard....and i have been to mexico, spain, colombia, peru, venezuela, panama, costa rica and this chinese chick had the mother tongue down pat.......

anyway, i would venture to guess that after reading Miguels written spanish in the español only section, he has the grammar and technical point down pretty pat.....anyway, my 2 centavos.....=)..oh, and i think the spanish in spain makes them sound pretty, how should i say, it? umm....happy?......like a SF gay would talk.....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 13, 2007, 22:59:

one other thing about Spain....i wonder if these 2 brothers lit up a cigarette after their encounter with the bull during the running of the bulls? ouch, that has GOT to hurt.....they are sure to be the "butt" of a lot of jokes about now......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jul 13, 2007, 23:11:

There's no such thing as the "best" Spanish, just like there's no "best" English. But Colombians do have a rather neutral, easy to understand Spanish.

Poor but snappy

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adrimm says on Jul 13, 2007, 23:11:

This might be an interesting reference:

http://ocw.u-tokyo.ac.jp/english/course-list/arts-and-sciences/geograp...

"Better" is highly subjective - I know that there are those which say that the French is parts of Quebec is more pure than French in parts of Quebec simply because it has evolved less since the Colonial period..

Personally I find from personal experience that there can be wide ranges in clarity and attention to vowels, consonants etc. among people within a country, even among those from big cities. I've heard somone from Lima (educated, higher end person) speak with very similar clarity (to my ear) to that of someone from Bogota. I've also heard everything downhill from there (also in Bogota).

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miamimike says on Jul 14, 2007, 00:14:

Come to Miami and listen to the Cuban's Spanish--Man what they do that Langauge is Criminal...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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scotty says on Jul 14, 2007, 00:37:

In a spanish class I took at a local community college our professor was from Mexico. One of the students asked him which country speaks the best spanish. He sais the latin american people consider the Colombians as the best spanish speakers.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Jul 14, 2007, 00:38:

you must mean it's like black ghetto 'merican english... can't understand a word that is said, sometimes.. take that sh*t to another planet.

Where do we go from here?

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scotty says on Jul 14, 2007, 01:54:

goin_ south, i like your duck, where you that , its cool!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 14, 2007, 03:30:

Miamimike I agree, but then again you can go to cuba and these people will speak impecable spanish. Perhaps not in terms of the accent but the actual usage, the words etc...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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bufalo says on Jul 14, 2007, 04:44:

Hard to say which is best, because it is only opinion. I've lived in Barcelona and parts of Colomibia. I was very surprised to see how much spanglish there was in Spain. A lot more than here in Armenia. They didn't understand the words "correr" nore "trotar". When I finally described "the aerobic excercise where you move a lot faster than a walk and go say, around a park or some other place big", they came back and said, "Oh, you mean hacer running". They literally told me that there is no such thing as "trotar" or "correr", that the spanish word is "running". After that I asked around and got the same answer.
Even on the coast of Colombia, when people speak spanglish, you can mention the right word, and they get what you're talking about.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd the disclaimer, OK people, so this isn't exactly a scientific study, just one of the various examples I saw, personally, while living there for 9 months or so. Barcelona is also part of Cataluña, where they speak Catalán, which is easy to understand if you speak fluent spanish. No, they weren't speaking Catalan to me at the time, but maybe there's an influence.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Miguel says on Jul 14, 2007, 06:22:

Miguel_Clavo wrote:"oh, and i think the spanish in spain makes them sound pretty, how should i say, it? umm....happy?......like a SF gay would talk.....=)"

C'mon Clavo, call a spade a spade and a fag a fag!

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 07:02:

Peter, you have a point there by naming the colombian spanish as "neutral", yup I think it is the way to call it: "neutral", I agree with you buddy!

FYI people whose main area of interest is literature and linguistics call it "better" and some of them call it "best". I said: "RAE establishes the standards for spanish and Colombia is the country that best follows those standards"... BTW english does not have something like RAE for spanish, does it?.

Bufalo, you said that you were in Spain and I have heard some spaniards pronouncing english with "spanish" pronounciation. For example, "spider" they pronounce it as "espíder", did you notice that while you were there?, I think is really to fun to listen to them speak english. I recall a friend of mine who used to say that spanish coul be tought with english pronounciation, for example, he said "If you want to teach a gringo the correct pronounciation of: en el sillón, ask him to read (in english) the following: N - L - SEE - JOHN... same thing with: fríjoles... ask him to read: FREE - HALL - S"

LOL very funny!

Elección no canonización....

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 07:04:

MC "la tuya" is mexican right!, if somebody says "chinga tu madre" you say "la tuya güey" but with mexican accent, ok? hehehehehehehe =P

Elección no canonización....

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 07:19:

That's right, If it is used in passive voice means that you are jodido: "chigado", whereas in active voice means "cool" or bacano. It is not the same to say "estoy chingado" than "soy chingon" =P

Elección no canonización....

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droble77 says on Jul 14, 2007, 08:00:

Maybe it depends on what part of Colombia? I have to admit, sometimes, I can barely understand the Paisas, especially in a loud bar with the rum/aguardiente flowing. :-) My limited interactions with costeños and caleños have been better, I seem to understand them just fine. I'm guessing I'll be able to understand rolos, but I have yet to spend any time in Bogota. I grew up in a spanish-speaking home (my dad is from Spain and my mom from P.R.), so the fact that I sometimes just can't follow the paisas frustrates me I have to admit. . .

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goin_south says on Jul 14, 2007, 10:34:

disculpa. that could be white ghetto ingles, as well.

Where do we go from here?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 10:38:

Hey, Miguel, ever since tomtom33 reminded me of my earlier New Years Resolution about being a "kinder and gentler MC", i thought i would try to salvage it, if possible....jajajajaja....but you are right, PC really sucks big time...and should not be tolerated....jijiji

my first time in spain i entered a bar in madrid...now, i had never heard the "th=s" spanish before other than the way the maricones spoke their spanish...at the time it was mostly men inside, which is nothing unusual in California, since most nightclubs are 80% men anyways....i stood at the bar, listening to all the spaniards speaking spanish....holy shit, batman! i noticed they ALL talked with that joto lisp!!!! panic struck! i thought i was in a gaybar!!!!!! jajajajajajaja......WTF am i doing here!?? jajajajaj..then i remembered that the spaniards used Castellian (sp?) spanish with the th=s or something like that.....anyway, it was not a "happy" bar, and i got drunk and had a good time....but the spanish girls are not real friendly in nature...

hey Gabo....when growing up, everyone wanted to be the head chingon.....=)..

GS made a good point about bad english....so heres a question for everyone:

does Spanish has its own version of that wonderful english called "Ebonics"???? =)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:33:

Mi amigo MC siempre "dando en el clavo" hehehehehehe (it is a compliment don't get me wrong, which means you are always right!)... yo creo que los latinos somos chingones...

Elección no canonización....

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kalder says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:38:

That Castilian lisp does sound rather camp. My wife loves to mock it.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:50:

gabo....no te ocupes, amigo....i have heard that many times....and i would venture to guess not too many people understand what other meaning clavar, clavo, etc, has....jajajaja....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:53:

no I don't think so hehehehehe

Elección no canonización....

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:54:

mexicans do though....jajajajjaaj......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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kalder says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:56:

Well, over here you could say 'I nailed that woman last night'.

That's if you weren't gentleman, of course. If you were, you wouldn't say anything at all ;)

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 12:59:

ooops kalder you know!!! well I would never say so (remember the respect thing I always stand for) but you know the "albur" thing, don't you?

Elección no canonización....

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kalder says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:03:

You've got me there sir! Never heard of it.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:10:

you now that double sense of the words... it is rethoric... the double sense of some words or phrases in a sexual context... mexicans are very good at it... well I don't like albur anyway 'cause I think it is disrespectful but I hear it so much times a day that I know the meaning of some words in an albur context...

Elección no canonización....

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:14:

you proved me wrong, Kalder......1 bazillion PBH gringo dollars is your prize.....very close.....damn those Brits make great detectives, dont they! ...basically just that....but you are right about the gentleman part.....those who have to post their "kills" on internet sites have no class whatsoever......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:20:

exactamundo, Mario!....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Man Tequila says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:46:

Clavo has some other meanings.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=clavo&defid=1348282

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Lauthra says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:55:

Well, I think Colombia has such a wide range of accents it'd be pretty hard to talk about it's spanish as a whole, I sometimes can't even understand people from Guajira y Magdalena.

Nato (='.'=)

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 13:59:

oh, great MT, now SuperPatriot is going to call me a coyote....jajajjajajajj...but i ran in different circles than the dopers, people smugglers, and the sexual exploiter/sex slave traders......
....

Gabo....lets hear your input on this.....since you are in Mexico, and i am only a halfbreed living in California but raised in East LA......when a mexican calls a white american a "gringo", is it a term of affection similar to its use in Colombia, ie gringuito,etc, or is it meant to be a derogatory slang term, similar to the n-word, jap, chink, beaner, spic, wop, mickey, type words meant to hurt and demean a person?

i had never heard of the word gringo being a term of affection among mexicans i have know...it was always "pinche gringo" used like "f at cking whiteboy" when a person meant to insult or demean a person, similar to wetback, mojado, etc used by white americans....first inkling i got was from this website, and i was shocked as to the number of pbh handles using gringo in it......so, i learned that the meaning of gringo is determined by how the speaker intends for the word to be taken...either as among friends, or as an insult.....and so in different LA countries, the same word has opposite meanings......your thoughts?

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 14, 2007, 14:03:

Even in the US, too Lauthra...i am from California, on an extradition one time i went to Boston, and stopped to talk to a fellow police officer for directions to the Hard Rock Cafe....my partner and i talked to this irish guy for 10 minutes listening to his directions, and upon leaving the cop, i asked my partner if he understood a single word the irish cop said, and his response "no, not a single word. i thought you did? was that english he was speaking?"...hahahah...any way, we bought a map......ajajajaj

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gabolicious says on Jul 14, 2007, 18:29:

Yeah Miguel, "gringo" is a term to demean a person among mexicans, however, it is used also to save time "gringo" is shorter than "estadounidense" or than "american". But "pinche gringo" is a term used to insult an american. The same happends if you say "pinche mexicano" is to insult mexican's pride...

Elección no canonización....

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Lauthra says on Jul 15, 2007, 00:54:

Si Miguel, accents are a very silly thing to pigeonhole.

Nato (='.'=)

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goin_south says on Jul 15, 2007, 01:13:

Lauthra....I'm beginning to understand Elmo's infatuatioin with you: you are a veritable intellectual genius! of the lady type. A RARE FIND, INDEED.

Where do we go from here?

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Miguel says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:32:

Miguel_ Clavo se escribió:"PC really sucks big time...and should not be tolerated....jijiji"

¡Aja! Give it to 'em with both barrels blazing and take no prisoners, M_C!!!

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Leeroy says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:41:

So, some Spanishes are "better" than others? Evidently, the RAE isn't up to speed with modern and ultra-PC theories towards dialects. If I were to say that the Welsh spoke shitty English, or that the Americans were raping my language, or that the Australian accent sounded comically uneducated, I would be shot down in a hail of PC gunfire.

"No accent or dialect is inherently superior to another!", they all scream.

Well, maybe not, but some are certainly easier to understand for the uninitiated.

I find Colombian accents to be somewhat clearer in their enunciation than their Spanish counterparts - a few exceptions notwithstanding. Just as British RP is a little easier on the ear for a non native than hard Scots, a Bogota accent is a bit easier than one from Granada. I'm okay with classifying Spanishes as "easier" or "harder", especially in their spoken forms.

The RAE's idea of "This is how the language should be!" (and, through implication, dialects will be "superior" or "inferior" depending on how they compare to the RAE's official model) is bizarre, from a sociolinguistics point of view. While some rules for grammar and orthography help, languages are still organic and evolving entities - setting down the rules in stone (as is also done in France) seems like a scarily prescriptive way of viewing language.

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Miguel says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:51:

Oye Leeroy, no entiendo.

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Lauthra says on Jul 15, 2007, 14:29:

I still think the easier and harder changed depending on how 'easy' or hard your accent is. I met a scotsman that said he couldn't understand american accent that easy (dunno which one he meant since there is a myriad of accents over there). Oh and I could hardly understand the scotsman :P

Nato (='.'=)

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:23:

Epale chamos y chamitas, panas y panos!! Que bolas es este cosa. Conchale vale!! El mejor español está en Venezuela. I will admit that Spanish in Bogotá is probably cleaner and has less local slang and phrases then many other places. Also the speed in which it is spoken is much easier as well. My friends from Bogotá can never understand the costenos and I feel so at ease. Its really funny what you run into sometimes. The first time I met a coworker form Chile I was ready to step outside cause he kept saying juevon to me and Chilleanos use that for everything...like a surfer says dude.

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Monpirri says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:43:

Conchale Vale, tiens razon en Venezuela hablan el mejor español.
Cuanto vale, Vale? Mejor dicho dame una arepa con caraotas, si amigos, las arepas son unas de las comidas tradicionales de Colombia y Venezuela.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:56:

monpirri es un chiste!! Spanish is Spanish to me. Just depends upon where you learned and who you talk to the most. I had a private tutor that was from Bogotá she always has a sad look because I spend more time in Venezuela..sometimes she just rolls here eyes and say no creo when I talk jajaja

Arepas I could live on..cachapas too!! I also love cachaperas jajajaja

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Monpirri says on Jul 15, 2007, 16:38:

Tranquilo Conchale Vale, yo se que era un chiste y bienvenido!!
Welcome Conchale Vale, I knew it was a joke.

Regards,

Monpirri

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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bufalo says on Jul 15, 2007, 20:14:

Gabolicious, No, I didn't notice it there too much, but one thing I did notice about people from a spanish speaking country learning english. For similar cross-language words, say "serpent" where the "s" is followed by a vowel, they have almost no problem saying the word with the "s" sound first.
But when it is an "s" sounding english word, the similar one in spanish begins with "es", so when they try the english word, they automatically put an "e" sound. Their mouths, tounges, whatever are used to saying "e" before a word that begins with "s" followed by a vowel. Like say the "spider" example you gave - they say "espider". Same for "speak", "steam", "sweat", whatever words are "s" consonant. I've worked on people's speech with this in mind and after awhile, they can get it (but it is very frustrating for them).

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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colombianoenbuenosaires says on Jul 16, 2007, 03:42:

La supuesta superioridad del español colombiano (más que nada del bogotano) se basa tanto en razones históricas como en prejuicios asentados. Igual que las hablas de México y Perú el dialecto se asienta en un español virreinal de clase alta. Esto en contraste con las hablas más plebeyas de Cono Sur y del Caribe (también el colombiano) donde priman las hablas peninsulares populares. Pero mientras el mexicano y el peruano se “contaminan” de sustrato indígena (náhuatl y quechua sobre todo) la temprana desaparición del chibcha y el aislamiento geográfico conservan el bogotano más “puro”, quiere decir más conservador de la norma virreinal. Por otra parte hay que tener en cuenta el ambiente cultural bogotano de la segunda mitad del siglo XIX en el que el hijo de un presidente se convierte en uno de los grandes lingüistas del mundo (Rufino J. Cuervo) y otro lingüista aceptable ejerce la presidencia con notoria mediocridad (Miguel A. Caro). Bogotá se convierte en la “Atenas sudamericana”, y el sociolecto de la clase dirigente bogotana asume como lengua nacional. A partir de ahí no hay quién convenza a los colombianos (a todos por igual) de que su habla – objetivamente – no es ni mejor ni peor que la de La Habana, Madrid, La Paz, Tucumán y Sinaloa. Claro que hay que admitir que más allá de esto los colombianos de todas las regiones y de todas las clases sociales manejamos el idioma con un gusto, un garbo y una gracia que nos autorizan sobradamente a presumir de él. Para el colombiano su idioma es mucho más un instrumento: es ocasión para lucirse y disfrutar.
Sorry for not writing in English….. I hope you understand me anyway……

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colombianoenbuenosaires says on Jul 16, 2007, 04:34:

Well…. I tried a translation…. hope there are not too many mistakes…. voy a tratar de practicar un poco….. by the way, I found Leeroy’s comment very accurate….
The supposed superiority of Colombian Spanish (the Bogotano especially) is based on historic reasons but also on old prejudices. The same as the language of Mexico and Peru the Bogotan dialect is based on upperclass viceroyal Spanish. This in contrast with the language of the Cono Sur (Argentina, Chile etc.) and the Caribbean (also de Colombian) based rather on popular peninsular speach. But meanwhile the Mexican an Peruvian ways of speaking where “corrupted” by indigenous substrate (nahuatl and quechua particularly) the Bogotano remained “unpolluted”, that means more conservative of the viceroyal norm, thanks to the geographic isolation and the early vanishing of chibcha language. On the other side the prejudice of superiority is based also on Bogotan cultural athmosphere during the second half of the XIX century, where power and culture amalgamated, the son of a president became one the greatest linguists of his times (Rufino J. Cuervo) and another esteemable linguist became president, but rather a mediocre one (Miguel A. Caro). Bogotá than was called the “Athens of South America” and the Bogotan upperclass sociolect became the symbol of national language. Since then it is impossible to convince any Colombian that his way of speaking Spanish is – objectively – not better nor worse than the way they speak it in La Habana, Madrid, La Paz, Tucumán or Sinaloa. Just different and more conservative. On the other hand you have to admit that we Colombians (of all regions and all social classes) treat our language with an elegance, a taste and a grace that enables us with justice to be proud of it. For us our language is much more than just an instrument: it is part of our soul and an opportunity to enjoy and show off.

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Monpirri says on Jul 16, 2007, 05:47:

Che Colombianoenbuenosaires, bienvenido!
Thanks for sharing the history.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Henry Alzate says on Oct 14, 2007, 13:03:

Disculpen que deje este mensaje, pero es que ando en busca de donde expresarme, quiero habrir un espacio para colombia en un rinconsito del corazon estadounidense.

Nuestro compromiso como colombianos esta gravado en nuestra Constitución Política. La estricta vigilancia de los actos gubernamentales, la exigencia de reformas políticas y el castigo a la corrupción política, son responsabilidades ciudadanas y no pertenecen a grupos criminales. El descuido de estas responsabilidades por parte de la ciudadanía colombiana, no unge con legitimidad política a cualquier grupo que usurpe dichos poderes.
Henry Alzate Giraldo

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 14, 2007, 19:18:

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Colombiche says on Oct 15, 2007, 16:53:

LOL. I love it when people who don't have a half decent grasp of the spanish language make authoritative, "I am totally right about this" type of observations about the quality of the spanish spoken in country x or country y.

That would be like me going around judging the quality of the italian spoken in Calabria vs what they speak in Milan or Roma or Torino......

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Oct 15, 2007, 16:59:

I remember back in Spain I had this discussion with a couple of spanish teachers, one from argentina, the other one was a Basque. They both coincided, that what they deemed to be the best spanish is spoken in Bogota (el altiplano cundiboyacense).

I think well spoken calenos and Payaneses speak very neutrally and clearly (meaning without a strong accent).

Educated paisas have a good command of the language as well, but the accent is heavy and we have way too many regionalisms. Maybe if we spit out the arepa we can talk a bit more neutrally.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Monpirri says on Oct 15, 2007, 17:12:

Yes, I love them too, they really carry chip on their shoulders, don’t they? They hardly speak the language and want to be professor on the subject, they hardly know the country and they want to be travel guides, they hardly know about Colombian cooking and they want to be next Emeril Lagasse in Colombian cuisine.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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manINred says on Oct 15, 2007, 19:06:

Some of the spanish from Spain is delightful to hear. Some of it is not. That goes for Colombia too.

My favourite spanish is spoken by paisas. I love it, the way they address each other, the various modisms, colloquialisms, for me it the archetypal spanish. I don't like Spanish from the coast of Colombia, and I'm indifferent to Spanish from Bogota although I note that it can be quite elegant.

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