WHY SHOULD I GO TO COLOMBIA FOR A SURGERY?

darkangel305 says on Feb 25, 2008, 08:36:

dont 4get its easy to sue after a surgical complication due to malpractice!

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Monpirri says on Feb 25, 2008, 08:38:

ok, I'll keep it in mind.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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CatGirl says on Feb 25, 2008, 10:46:

Monpirri: My dear...I have first hand knowledge in this area ;)
WARNING
It depends on the type of surgery, so be careful if you chose to go out of your own country. Every surgery type is not "cookie cutter" - or always the same
There can be up to 10 different ways to do one type of procedure and different products are used (example a surgical mesh or a heart valve) - additionally every surgeon has a different style from their training and education.
Typically most post operative complications occur about 30 days after surgery. One of the most common complications is DVT or worse PE or Heart attack, in other words, a clot in the leg or a limb that develops, dislodges and goes into your lung or heart or sometimes your brian. So getting on a airplane after surgery is risky too - the pressure changes and long sitting can be a problem.
We are having many problems in the US with Americans going out of the country for procedures and returning with complications (guess where the cost goes over time for those emergencies and elective surgeries? Taxes and Insurance). It is dangerous for the patient to see a different surgeon after surgery that is not familiar with the other surgeons style. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. For elective procedures? HA! Many private practice surgeons will tell you - no thanks find another surgeon, because they dont want a law suit or worse, you could die under their scalpel.

I dont necessarily say a person should not go out of the country for procedures either - but I feel it is safer to stick with the same surgeon.

So until MD's are more in touch internationally....here are Kitty's recommendations for anyone that ever plans to go out of their country for surgery

1) Establish yourself with a surgeon in your own country that is willing to follow up with another surgeon outside of your country
2) Ensure that they are connected and your local surgeon is familiar with the procedure and style the other surgeon does.
3) Make sure both surgeons have good credentials and recommendations. Ask them their mortality rates over the past year and how long they have been doing this procedure. Also try to pick surgeons with afflilations of Peer reviewed Associations - they are expected to hold higher standards and have to prove it.
4) Plan to stay in the country that you have surgery for longer than they tell you (I say one month minimum post operative).

Keep in mind, if you cant get an MD in your own country to follow up... You are stuck with the emergency room or surgeons that will charge you massive amounts of money for complications,
Also from my experience of these type of private practice surgeons in the US - they scare me..too bold, they are pioneers and go where no other surgeon will go. They are doing procedures that have not been proven safe and not considered "Best Practice Medicine". It's a gamble that 's all

OK .....Puurrr

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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diabloblas says on Feb 25, 2008, 10:49:

madronna went to cartagena to get his stomach made into the size of a ball sack

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CatGirl says on Feb 25, 2008, 10:57:

Dia: This is considered a HIGH RISk elective procedure. Any surgery in the gut is risky. Wish this person much luck :)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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wendell13 says on Feb 25, 2008, 11:56:

Good comments and advice CatGirl

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Simon says on Feb 25, 2008, 12:17:

I had my LASIK surgery done in Colombia and so far so good.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Monpirri says on Feb 25, 2008, 12:34:

CatGirl, very interesting info and good advices as well.
Diabloblas, Maradona also went back to Colombia for the second time for dental surgery and he does not mind going back and forth to Colombia.
Maradona to fix teeth in Colombia
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90779/6249982.html

Colombia has a very good reputation with medical surgery in Lasik and other types of surgeries:
http://tom-morrow-land.com/lasik.html
The LASIK technique was made possible by Dr Jose Barraquer (Colombia), who around 1960 developed the first microkeratome, use...
http://www.healthandwellnesscentral.com/Category/Lasik-Eye-Surgery/217
Dr. Luis Ruiz, in Colombia
http://tom-morrow-land.com/lasik.html

"Of all those people coming to Colombia, at least 3% come to get medical treatment, said Antonio Crespo, head of the Colombia Tours Solutions travel agency. In 2004, he said about 21,000 people came for surgery and in 2005, about 30,000."
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2006-03-14-colombia-surger...

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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msaucey says on Feb 25, 2008, 14:39:

I'll vouch for the Barraquer Clinic in Bog.... EXCELLENT job.... Had Lasik in October by the Dra. Carmen Barraquer and she did an excellent job.... Just went for a check up last week for my annual eye appointment here, and they were dually impressed by the ease of recover and the healing of my eyes.... I'm at 20/20, yeah baby!!!!

Also, there bedside manner was amazing.... I've never been offered a sandwich and coffee after any type of Dr visit, but sure enough, they wanted to make sure I was comfortable after my surgery and served me a toasted ham sandwich and brought me a pot of coffee!....

Did I mention they did a great job...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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Colombiche says on Feb 25, 2008, 14:51:

I'm considering laser surgery, still deciding whether to go to Colombia or do it up here. Most of my relatives have had their eyes operated in Colombia and they have 20/20 vision.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Simon says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:10:

Here's an article I read in today's paper concerning this subject:


LASIK failure toll can be high

FDA to study effects of complications from eye surgery; some blame them for depression, suicide
By Sabine Vollmer

McClatchy-Tribune newspapers

February 25, 2008

RALEIGH, N.C.

Patients who undergo vision-correcting laser eye surgery sign a release form with an extensive list of risks, but some researchers and former patients say a potential complication is not mentioned: depression that can lead to suicide.

In response to patient complaints, the Food and Drug Administration plans to convene a large, national study to examine the relationship of LASIK complications and quality of life, including psychological problems such as depression.

Malvina Eydelman, an ophthalmologist with the FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health, wrote in an e-mail that the scant clinical data available "failed to suggest significant problems following LASIK surgery."

But she said the FDA wants a broad and systematic review. She wrote, "We also noted that quality of life issues related to LASIK had not been evaluated consistently, and there were few reports of well-designed studies."

Frustration and sorrow can follow any unsuccessful surgery, but when the procedure leaves a patient with unremitting eye pain or permanently impaired vision, the emotional toll can be severe.

One who could not endure it was Colin Dorrian, 28, a patent lawyer and aspiring medical student from suburban Philadelphia. He committed suicide last summer, six years after LASIK surgery left him with lasting visual distortions. The surgery was done at a LASIK center in Canada that has since closed.

"If I cannot get my eyes fixed, I'm going to kill myself," he wrote in a note police found.

In the note, Dorrian wrote that there had been other instances when he felt down. "I have other problems like most people do. But this is something else," he wrote. "As soon as my eyes went bad, I fell into a deeper depression than I had ever experienced, and I never really came out of it."

Laser eye surgeons who treat patients with complications say they do come across cases of depression, but they don't think LASIK complications are the root cause. They say patients who exhibit depression after the procedure were likely depressed or psychologically troubled beforehand.

"There's no cause and effect," said Dr. Steven Schallhorn, the former head of the Navy Refractive Surgery Center in San Diego and an expert on permanent visual distortions from LASIK.

Christine Sindt, an optometrist and associate professor of clinical ophthalmology at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, has encountered the psychological effects that patients experience when they have trouble seeing.

"Depression is a problem for any patient with a chronic vision problem," she said. But in the case of post-LASIK patients, she said, the depression is compounded by remorse.

"It's not just that they lose vision," she said. "They paid somebody [who] took their vision away."

Dr. Alan Carlson, a laser eye surgeon at the Duke Eye Center in Durham, built his career on correcting the vision of patients at high risk of complications. He said people at risk of depression or anxiety are generally not good candidates for LASIK. He compared them to patients who become depressed after undergoing cosmetic surgery.

"Their motivation and expectations may reflect something they're missing in their life that they're not telling you about," he said.

In 2006, the FDA began to look into LASIK complications and quality-of-life issues and determined more research was needed.

A task force that includes representatives of the National Eye Institute and the National Institutes of Health has since formed to design a large study that would be conducted by laser eye surgeons across the country.

The FDA is also planning a public meeting to discuss experiences with LASIK devices since their introduction to the U.S. market.

- - -

Mostly safe, successful

Since the mid-1990s, numerous studies have shown that the surgery known as laser-assisted in-situ keratomileusis, or LASIK, is safe and successful in most cases and has become more so with new technology. Most of the 1.3 million Americans who undergo the surgery every year are happy with the results. The American Society of Cataract and Refractive Surgery, which represents about 9,000 ophthalmologists specializing in laser eye surgery, suggests that only 2 percent to 3 percent of LASIK patients experience complications.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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CatGirl says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:27:

Well, lots of Lasik comments ;)...Simple procedure - local anesthetic - in & out same day...risk is lower BUT it still exists. You want to take the chance - go for it ')

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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msaucey says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:28:

CB, you should reallyyyyyyyyyyy do it....... It's like WOW!.... lol....

It's really great waking up and knowing you can see when you first open your eyes..... I always had a fear that I would wake up in the middle of an earthquake an not find my glasses or contacts, things like that.... But, that may have been because when I was 17 we had a major earthquake and I woke up at 4am, not being able to find my glasses or seeing in the pitch black of the night... Gave up the search and went back to sleep.... Oh, but needless to say it was worth it...

Simon, Barraquer clinic has been around for over 40 years with one of the founding fathers of Lasik... I did all my research prior to setting up my appointment and there wasn't one single infection, well that I could find... But, needless to say, they are a highly reputable clinic, and I believe categorized as the best in the country...

I've had a couple friends complain about the surgery, but they had it done here in the states.... I tend to side with the lack of experience some doctors may have.... I wanted to make sure that if someone was touching my only 2 eyes that the experience was there....

My cousin wanted me to use his friend, who also does lasik, for less, but I chose to stay with Barraquer, because, even though money was a contributing factor to my decision, it wasn't my only factor....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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CatGirl says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:39:

Monpirri - "CatGirl, very interesting info and good advices as well.
Diabloblas, Maradona also went back to Colombia for the second time for dental surgery and he does not mind going back and forth to Colombia."

Thank you for the links...I'll check them out ;)

BTW
Another bigger trend I am finding - many MD's that have gone to prestigious Med schools and completed their residencies in the US have decided to move out of the US and establish their practice elsewhere - very commonly they go South of the US border.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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Simon says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:39:

I had my surgery done at the 'Clinca de Oftamología' in Cali. They were pretty good, shit, I don't have to wear my glasses just to make sure I piss inside the toilet bowl anymore!!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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grippm says on Feb 25, 2008, 16:11:

has anyone got any recommends for good dental surgery in Colombia?
Thanks.

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Simon says on Feb 25, 2008, 16:13:

What kind of dental surgery? I know a good orthodontist who removed my wisdom teeth.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Colombiche says on Feb 25, 2008, 16:16:

wisdom teeth... uy, eres un pollito.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Simon says on Feb 25, 2008, 16:40:

¿Quién pidió pollo?

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Monpirri says on Feb 25, 2008, 17:10:

"Another bigger trend I am finding - many MD's that have gone to prestigious Med schools and completed their residencies in the US have decided to move out of the US and establish their practice elsewhere - very commonly they go South of the US border."

CatGirl, I agree because Dr. Fernando Ruiz Matiz who is the national Director of Optometrists in Colombia studied at Pennsylvania College in the US.
I was his patient while in Barranquilla.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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NataliaV says on Feb 25, 2008, 17:53:

msaucy, whats the difference in cost from Lasik here in the US vs Colombia? I need it done. I have terrible vision!! I am so tired of contacts. I am considering it here in the states, but if i can make a trip to Colombia out of it, why not? : )

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Lucas Freley says on Feb 25, 2008, 18:19:

Es verdad Maradona fue varias veces a Colombia a operarse por distintos tratamientos médicos. La operación de Cartagena fue un éxito, ya que le redujeron medio estomago, y no hubo ninguna complicación. Doy fe de que el Diego quedó en muy buen estado, siendo que a sus 46 años sigue jugando al fútbol en el Show Ball (Mundial de fútbol de salon de ex jugadores).

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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manINred says on Feb 25, 2008, 18:23:

Puse tetas en Medellin, y quedan bien lindas :)

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miamimike says on Feb 25, 2008, 18:41:

Catgirl-on your statement, "CatGirl says on Monday February 25th, 2008 10:57:

Dia: This is considered a HIGH RISk elective procedure. Any surgery in the gut is risky. Wish this person much luck :)"
===================================================================
Why is that? If the Surgery is Performed by a Competent Surgeon in this Specialty and he performs the Surgery in a Clinic under Aseptic(sterile) Conditions and the patient does not have any Pre-existing conditions that would make him/her less then a Good Candiadate, I don't see why its Risky. Not anymore then any other Invasive surgery. All Invasive Surgery carries a certain degree of risk and the Risk is Multiplied when the Patient has a pre-existing condition such as Diabetes that wwould prevent optimum Healing. I would have to See some Supporting Stats to Verify this Claim. Not saying it isn't true, only the need for Stats!

If I were exploring Surgery(plastic, orthopedic, cardiac) I would conference with at least 3 Doc for Opinions. Ask for a "Random Recent List " "who he sucessfully operated on(patients)." A Good Doc won' mind this; if he/she does, Run for the Door. Really. You have to live with the results for a Lifetime,,,Do your Due diligence and on't be afraid o ask Questions Remember, the only Dumb Questions are the ones not asked. A Good Doc doesn't mind Questions and if he does, it may be a Harbinger(bad) of things to come,,,

Don't be in a Hurry to travel back to the US! A Good Doc will tell you this! If he says after invasive Surgery you can Fly in a week, again, Run from the Office. Air Travel greatly enchances the Risk of Emboli Formation( a blood clot that travels with its suitcase) Big problem if this occurs in a Plane at 10,000 feet! . Play it Safe&Smart, Figure 4-5 weeks to recuperate afterwards.

Ask for Price Last, its the least important factor that should decide your Surgery. You are already getting a great deal by going to Colombia so what's a few hunderd dollars more for the Best? Like having it done in theClinica de Sante Fe in Bogota.

Ask your Surgeon in What Hospitals and Clinics they have the right to Practice(privleges) in; this is very telling as if he doesn't have privleges in some of the better known Clinics, there MAY be a Reason. Maybe not a good record for whatever reason,,Check Him out!

I checked out My Dental Work with 3 different Dentists in Bogota and was well satisfied when I finally had the work done. I saved close to $8000 Minimally and the work was very good. Like any Country, Colombia has Excellent Doctors/Dentists and some Bad ones also. Don't let Price be the deciding factor,,,

Don't try to schedule too many Types of Surgeries in One short trip. Again, a Good Doc will tell you this and if he says its "No Problema" to do Eye Surgery one week and Plastic Surgery the Next, Get those Nike Air Jordans on and Haul A*S out of the office. Caveat Emptor,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Monpirri says on Feb 25, 2008, 18:48:

I also agree with you Che Lucas, Maradona loves to visit Colombia and he has lots of friends there.

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Feb 25, 2008, 18:58:

"Puse tetas en Medellin, y quedan bien lindas :)"
I bet you did look marvelous.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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CatGirl says on Feb 25, 2008, 20:29:

Miami Mike: Are you trying to ask me in a civil way "why"
OR are you trying to debate with me? jajaja
Of course there are always preexisting conditions that are obvious.Obesity, Diabetes, Hypertension, Hepatitis, Portal hypertension etc
These are things you would ask your surgeon -the one doing the surgery. Good to ask, that's my point. Again, it depends on so many variables, each case is different. Not cookie cutter. They have National Mortality Rates that can be offered and then you can compare to the surgeon's average.
Either way - surgery in the gut that requires general anesthesia - is risky - period - even the most skilled surgeon can accidently nick the liver or pancreas - even during a simple procedure. Also preexisting conditions can be present that the surgeon is not aware of until they begin surgery - adhesions, Cirrhosis, ulcers etc
If any MD is telling you different than this? They are not giving you full informed consent. You have the right to know ALL possible complications.

It sounds like you have had a conversation with an MD or know one?. But I will tell you, when I have conversations with patients that attempt to debate with me after I have answered their questions ....I refer them to another surgeon ;). Because it is a red flag when a patient feels they know more than the practionner, it is better they go to who they feel confidence in. If they want to go to Dr Good who runs a practice and does mass advertising - their choice and decison. I am not a salesperson. I practice Best Practice Medicine
No offense intended

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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msaucey says on Feb 25, 2008, 21:49:

Natalia.... I think overall it was around $1,500.... But, you pay for each process... 200K COP here, 200K there... but it add it up to about $1,500 with the pre and post surgery visits.... I'm sure that seconds after I post this price, everyone will be saying I've paid too much, but compared to the $5,000 I was quoted in L.A. for the same surgery, with similar credentials, I decided a trip and surgery would still be less then the L.A. price, heck I can still book another trip with the difference... Again, Barraquer Clinic is supposed to be the top one in the country and they did a fabu job!....

The other good thing I liked about them, is that they wont operate on you if you're not suitable... My mom has something different with her eye, they have a specialist that works on neurological disorders related too eye movement (only available 4 times a year)... Anyway, so, my mom made an appointment to get checked out if she would be eligible for this pricey surgery ($5K USD).... They did the exam and told her that for her condition, and the factor that it is not obstructing her vision that it would be best not to do the surgery, since it may cause more nerve damage...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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miamimike says on Feb 25, 2008, 21:52:

CG----I am trying to ask you in a Civil way and No, I have not had any Conversations with an MD recently although I know a few having worked in a(the) Medical profession for close to 20 years. I'm of the Opinion that ANY Invasive Surgery carries with it a certain amount of risk and Im just not sure one is any more riskier then another, provided a Competent Surgeon performs the Operation, patient is a good candidate and its done under Aseptic Conditions( as aseptic as it is possible) . I have seen rather simple invasive procedures have a LESS THEN DESIRED outcome due to the patient's pre-existing conditions or a surgeon's less then competent skill level. The Level of Difficulty as far as the procedure went really didn't have a lot to do with the outcome. Risks such as Noscomical Infections like MRSA may be out of the patient's ability to avoid but even this can be researched with Stats on prospective Hospitals and their Status post infection rates. One needs to minimize the risk as much as it is humanely possible. The other way to mimimize the risk is to make sure the Hospital or clinic has a long and succesful track record of having performed your Procedure over time, Same for the Surgeon you elect to have the Surgery performed by,,,Patients really need to educate themselves on their procedures and ask the questions before rather then after. Don't be so influenced by a Swanky Office with GoldFramed Certificates hanging on the Wall; be more concerned with what should transpire after you are carted into the operating room,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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CatGirl says on Feb 26, 2008, 07:27:

MiamiMike: Ahhh Now I recall exchanging comments with you about LTC facilities, yes :)
Now I understand why all the infection control cooments, respectively.

MM says " Don't be so influenced by a Swanky Office with GoldFramed Certificates hanging on the Wall; be more concerned with what should transpire after you are carted into the operating room,,,"

I agree with you on this one too. jajaja....

MRSA and VRE are so common these days - infact as you know most people dont even know they have it. From a surgical perspective all it does it is really just create more minfulness in OR protocol. But now I have a better idea of where you are coming from.

Ok Mike;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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scotty says on Feb 27, 2008, 02:11:

good question, why should you? i wouldnt.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Simon says on Feb 27, 2008, 11:16:

Because it's a lot cheaper and the quality is excellent, that's why!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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poco says on Feb 27, 2008, 12:32:

Quote: "If I cannot get my eyes fixed, I'm going to kill myself," he wrote in a note police found.

A little extreme if you ask me,, I'd at least give brail a chance. I don't think it should be difficult locating a good shoe shine person.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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miamimike says on Feb 27, 2008, 20:29:

LOL- Poco-Looks that Chica could use a little Plastic Surgery Liposuction to get rid of that Spare tire! LOL

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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houstongal says on Feb 27, 2008, 20:58:

Hey CB and Natalie, I'm with MSaucey. Lasik was the best thing I ever did! Especially if you have allergies, which bother your contacts durng allergy season.

I got it done because I started to need reading glasses when I read with my contacts. It's been 5 years and I still don't need reading glasses and my distance vision is still pretty good. I had the worst eyesight of all the patients on the day of my surgery, which apparently would not make me an ideal candidate. Plus I have a slight asigmatism in my left eye. Make the investment and go for it. You won't regret it.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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