Why it's better to Live in COLOMBIA

Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 18:38:

Couldn't disagree more I'd rather have more 9/11 style attacks than put up with increasing encroachment of our freedoms here. This is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes me want to pack up and move.

Maybe I need a spaceship. It seems the whole planet is just ready to give up their freedom for a little 'security'.

lpdiver says on Aug 4, 2005, 18:40:

Security is nothing more... than a state of mind. You are no more or less secure than you believe you are. Stupidity is know to alter our ability to percieve reality though.

T

"cook some rice!"

BAQ says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:02:

Healthy Debate OK, you don;t want your "Freedom" stepped on. I understand that. HOWEVER, if you want to take that approach, then I don;t think you have a right to complain for longer lines at the subway when EVERYONE ends up going through metal detectors (like the airports). Also, GOD FORBID, it happens again and you loose a loved one or a friend, I think you forfit the right to complain about it.

I remember very well two years before 911, everyone was crying about "Profiling" and the courts said we needed to stop, so we did. Then right after 911 everyone was crying about how bad a job law enforcement had done and wanted to know "WHY DIDN;T THE POLICE PROFILE THESE PEOPLE AND STOP THEM BEFORE THEY DID IT?".

RANDOM searches DO WORK, COLOMBIA figured this out years ago and thats one reason cars are stopped at checkpoints and random searches are conducted on the street. To stop the flow of guns and drugs. I THINK IT'S GREAT!! Honestly, what is SO BAD about taking THREE MINUTES out of your day/trip to let law enforcement check for bombs, guns ect. I value my privacy but I also value some form of security. Do you really think the police CARE what personal items are in your bag? They only care about BOMBS, guns, drugs ect. So unless you are a terrorist or a criminal, whats the problem?

We as Americans ALWAYS want to have our cake and eat it to. Unfortunatly, in todays world, that just isn;t possible.

Semper Fidelis !

toneloc24 says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:15:

BAQ - I understand your point of view. I do respect it, believe that.

Let me play devil's advocate, because this is America, more specifically NYPD cops. Let's say it's Friday evening, and you stop at the weed man to to get your weekend weed stash. Place it in your backpack. Stroll over to the subway, headphones on, causing no problems at all. You get stop for the random search. Cops find the weeed. Jail or not? What's reasonable cause to constitute that search? And once the weed is found, then what? The right to privacy is in place for a reason. It NEEDS to be respected.

If you want to make people feel safer against nukes, tighten the borders and the ports. Do a more thorough search of air cargo. Anything short and you're wantonly encroaching on the rights of US citizens.

I don't have a deathwish, but I know that I'm gonna die someday. I accept that and live each day like tomorrow's not promised. I also don't have kids, so I guess this is a selfish point of view. I'm just not gonna live my life looking over my shoulder. And I'm not gonna stereotype every Arab person as a potential terrorist.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

adrimm says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:15:

Of course I'd much rather live in Colombia rather than die there.

;)

"Better" is relative to what people value, and people are fickle. What else is new?

Gomezman5 says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:29:

BAQ...as I so often do, I agree It's funny BAQ. I have an auto-complete in the subject box above and whenever I type your initialls, I always get some version of "I agree" with BAQ.

vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:31:

Having a weekend stash not against the law??....again as someone else said before if your a law biding citizen you have nothing to fear....when a police asks you to stop you stop period....if you run you have something to hide....or you are a Brazilian electrician who didn't understand the word stop....


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

BAQ says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:46:

I understand Toneloc24, I understand what you are saying. It is DEFINATLY a sensative subject, is one reason I posted this topic, not to start people fighting, but a HEALTHY DEBATE.

Same applies in Colombia. Honestly, and I am not trying to be a smart ass, but I don;t care WHAT people carry in their bags, weed, sex toys, ect, I only care about BOMBS, chemicals ect. Things that are intended to kill innocent people. I am VERY LIBERAL in my thinking. I don;t do drugs however think they should be legalized. I don;t buy sex from hookers but I think it should be legalized. That being said, I am very conservative about security. I had a VERY CLOSE FRIEND killed in the 911 attack so for me, maybe its a bit more personal.

There has to be SOME WAY that we can better secure our country without everyone thinking they have lost their freedom.

About PROFILING, well, an example. DAS has me registered as an American living in Colombia. Lets say tomorrow a GRINGO starts on a rampage of raping women and one of the victims says "It was definatly a gringo". I would UNDERSTAND DAS wanting to talk to me and other GRINGO's here in the city. It would be silly for them to look for a Colombian suspect. Same applies with profiling terrorists, NOT ALL, but a LARGE PERCENTAGE fit a "SPECIFIC profile". So if you fall into the catagory of the PROFILE, you need to understand why you would be picked out of a crowd to be questioned.

Ok, I will shut up now.. Again folks, this is just a HEALTHY DEBATE !!!

Semper Fidelis !

Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:46:

First of all There IS no security. Nothing they can do can stop or even mitigate the bombings.
Man, if Al Queda wanted NY in the ocean they would do it. They must have a reason not to because even with current measures IT WOULD BE SO EASY. I could think of several ways off the top of my head to snuff thousands here before people would even know what hit them. All this 'security' is nothing more than a waste of time.
If we were really so concerned with these things, we should just GET THE HELL OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST like we shoulda done long ago. That is the only long-term solution. I believe it is the same in Colombia. They need to look at the ROOT CAUSES of the problems, the reasons why the FARC and the paras exist in the first place.
Toneloc is absolutely right. This is just another disgusting excuse of the NYPD to allow them to search for drugs at will. It may be illegal, but in the USA the police are supposed to have to have a reason to stop you and search you. Now probable cause is out the window. We can basically kiss the 4th amendment goodbye.
I'm beginning to appreciate why certain segments of the population here HATE the police so much. Actually I'm beginning to join them. Where's that Ice-T mp3 hiding???

toneloc24 says on Aug 4, 2005, 21:09:

Never said it was legal. But should a random search for BOMBS land you in jail for weed? Big difference. What's next, are they gonna check unpaid parking tickets and book you for that too? Remember, you were just taking the train or the bus.

What happens if you refuse the random search? Again, you still haven't broken a law. Nor have you done ANYTHING to constitute a lawful search based on suspicion.

Colombia has its laws, the USA has its laws. Apples and oranges.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 21:34:

ok TONE lets follow that route....then when same an asshole slips through into the subway with a bomb ...how important are your rights to some dead innocent people? what if some of the dead people happen to be your wife or loved one ... do you think your really going to care about what rights you have? no you will be the first one to flip the switch on the bomber if he/she is caught...... remember laws are for protecting the people not for protecting people for what ever reason want to beak them.... if people know they are doing random searches then the shouldn't carry drugs onto the subway where they are subject to random searches....people speed and know if they get caught they will get a ticket...same thing you carry drugs and you get caught you pay the price...its very simple...Colombia is a fine example of random searches and it seams to work... I get pulled over many times in my car..they search the trunk have a dog sniff it and I am on my way.....my problem is they always want to chat with me about gringo land....or if I say Canadian god forbid then I am into snow talk for 1/2 hour


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

lpdiver says on Aug 5, 2005, 02:23:

TL24 Weed is illegal. You and I may not agree with the law but it is the law. Don't buy the junk and what you have to worry about.

T

"cook some rice!"

quindioman says on Aug 5, 2005, 03:32:

the good citizen We live in an inconsistent world where REAL freedom is sacrificed in the name of WHAT?
A real bastard piece of caca (George Bush)can be a decent law abiding citizen, but the moment someone touches drugs they are the worst of the worst.
I judge people not by what they have accomplished but what's in their hearts....i look up to Mahatma Gandhi, not Bill Gates....gimme a Mother Theresa and not a Shakira or a Maddonna or an Oprah. We need more Siddharta Gautamas not more Tony Blairs and Berlusconi's. These "leaders" wouldn't know the meaning of being humble if it was the last piece of pie. These guys don't seem to understand human nature, they seriously believe people wake up in the morning and feel like blowing themselves up....i don't agree with Rubiazo in general but i'm with him when he says tackle the root cause.....tackling the root cause is something that the western world is not particularly good at...just like western medecine....feeling sad...here you are pop a couple of these pills....the fucknig HYPOCRISY MAKES ME SICK where some posh/middle class neurotic high fliers sneer at casual drug users but are stuffed to their eyeballs in prozac or Vicodin or what have you.

Albatross says on Aug 5, 2005, 04:40:

Bullshit Well I guess you all won't be surprised when the police break into your house someday, maybe while you're takin' a dump or bangin' your lady, just for a "random search". I suppose you won't mind when they search through your drawers and closets and have a good laugh when they find your stash of girlie mags or your wife’s vibrator. Maybe they will go through your medicine cabinet looking for bombs and you will have to explain to them that this stuff is for hemorrhoids and that is for herpes. Maybe some cop will even go through your six-year old daughter’s bedroom while she stands there wondering why some strange man is throwing all her underwear on her bed.

I have no respect for stupid cowards who think the police should take over.


"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither.�
- Benjamin Franklin

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

toneloc24 says on Aug 5, 2005, 05:47:

So Vicshere, as I stated before, Colombia is one country, the USA is another. Colombia's bombs are not imported. It would be MUCH more difficult to smuggle a nuke into the USA, if the borders, ports, and cargo holds were actually secure. Why that is not being addressed so vigorously, considering we all know it is a major weakness, is the real question. Some people give industry a break as opposed to strengthening the nation's security. The country's been bought and paid off.

In the USA, EVERYONE is NOT subject to being treated as terrorists. Is this the one of the results of Patriot Act? And are you admitting that Al Qaida has won? Today, random searches in the subway. Tomorrow, what? It's a slippery slope.

Listen, I'm from Brooklyn NYC. I worked in the World Trade Center. I had a very difficult time during 9/11, as I could not find my family or friends for a while. Thankfully, they all ended up safely. However, 9/11 happened. It was a reaction to our actions abroad. Extremely ruthless and despicable reaction, but the USA is not without blame in the matter.

Most New Yorkers have thicker skin than the rest of the country. One thing they don't care to give up easily is their privacy, considering that 8 million people live on top of each other there. Their little bit of privacy is premium. I don't want my 70 yr old mother subject to random searches by the NYPD. She already has to deal with that shit at the airport. In the subway, it's nonsensical.

If you start treating common people like terrorists, go ahead and extend those random searches to diplomats and politicians. Why should ANYONE get a free pass into the USA?

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

tomtom33 says on Aug 5, 2005, 07:37:

"the USA is not without blame in the matter" That's right. We share the blame for 9/11. Are you sure that you aren't Cockney Colombian? Apparently we don't need another country's hatred. We can loathe ourselves quite well, thank you.

Please tell me that you didn't mean it the way it sounds.

Albatross says on Aug 5, 2005, 07:45:

Irony What’s really ironic is that NYC which took the brunt of 911 (obviously) is probably more multi-national (including Muslims) than any other place in the country. But most New Yorkers (who are also a prime target of a future) do NOT support decreased personal liberty (and did NOT support the invasion of Iraq). Funny how the yahoos from Americas "heartland" are those most interested in increased security (at the expense of civil rights) and military action overseas even though they are tactically unimportant.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

tigredelnorte says on Aug 5, 2005, 08:13:

Since this thread appears to be open to unsubstantiated statements. I’ll say that most residents of New York City feel that the subway system is safer due to the random checks, and are not bothered by them.

platano says on Aug 5, 2005, 08:21:

Aren't Chechnian Muslim terrorists blonde haired and blue eyed? Why isn't the USA profiling for blonde haired, blue-eyed terrorists or those that fit the Timothy McVeigh profile? I'm about to use the R word here.

BAQ wrote: "Same applies with profiling terrorists, NOT ALL, but a LARGE PERCENTAGE fit a "SPECIFIC profile". So if you fall into the catagory of the PROFILE, you need to understand why you would be picked out of a crowd to be questioned."

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

quindioman says on Aug 5, 2005, 08:37:

... tomtom33, Cockney Colombian is our in house novelist/wordsmith, please do not defame his character like that.
I am the antithesis of my namesake on this forum, rude, ignorant and not very likeable.

Yours Faithfully,
cockney_colombian

utopiacowboy says on Aug 5, 2005, 08:40:

Oh yeah, well you're another one! And so's your mother.

Thought I'd get into the spirit of things even though I have no idea what this thread is about.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

toneloc24 says on Aug 5, 2005, 08:49:

Tigredelnorte - Where are you located?

Albatross - I, too, find it funny and interesting that folks in heartland USA are so agreeable now with increased security. This is one of the results of the Fox News fear-spreading campaign. When the Oklahoma City bombings occurred, there was no call for "increased security" or random bag or car searches. Therefore, if anywhere, the random car searches should start out there, not NYC. But that would upset "the base." Domestic terrorism (bombing) is the parallel to Colombia to be made, not 9/11.

Platano - You are correct, but I wouldn't use the R word. Let's just stick to "profiling."

Again, in Colombia, the bombs are Colombian. It could be anybody. Hence, the random searches.

In the USA, the bombs that you refer to, nukes, would be imported. We have ways of stopping this, securing against this. I'm just not so sure that the interest in truly securing homeland USA is there. In the meantime, our rights as Americans are being stripped away.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

MyWave says on Sep 29, 2005, 18:49:

True That Okay boys and girls lets look at the facts.
1. If it is time for you to go, you can slip in your bathtub and bust your azz. God willing and the creek does not rise.
2. No if you place yourself or love ones in a area were the danger is higher, there may be a greater chance of harm.
EXAMPLE: You move to east Africa and build a house in the middle of a animal migration every years. Yes the Lion will knock at your door....
3. People need to stop saying things about area unless you have been there and had a problem.
4. My understand about Colombia is if you stay to the north(Cartengena, Barranquilla) there is a less chance for any problems.
5. These dating sites are another example. Do you think white America(yes I am not white) would run down south of the border and pick-up, date, one night stand or marry these beautiful women. I do not think so. It is about money also. There is a percentage that goes to the goverment when you file to get your bride back to the States or Europe. You think they would not have some form of protection for their money, please........

Again if it is time for you to go, a street car in the middle of the ocean could take you out. Stop being such a blow heart and be mature and check out the fact. If you are still afraid, then don't go.. Do not spoil other ideas and dreams about a country and its people. They may have the time of their lives... They may even send you some picture, with a caption at the beach having fun....

Thank you....

MYWAVE

MyWave