Why don't gringos learn Spanish?

annieb says on Jun 10, 2007, 10:46:

The same point could be made for the states and the people that don't learn english. Just a thought.

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goin_south says on Jun 10, 2007, 10:53:

zzzzzzzz.ZZZ...zzzzzzzzzz........ por que, Latinos no aprender el ingles?
zzzzzzzzzz...ZZZZZ..zzzzzzz.....
Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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griffbos says on Jun 10, 2007, 11:24:

Ekdog I have to disagree with you many spanish speaks in the USA barley can speak english because they live in spanish speaking areas where the can get away with it. The friends of mine that speak the best english is because they choose to move out of the spanish and into the english areas. As for gringos walking around talking english I know if I am walking with one of my friends in Colombia that speaks english the do not speak spanish but english to me. granted my spanish is poor but I do make an effort to use it, I am planing to move to Colombia where it should improve greatly with regular use. I do not know the gringos you speak of, but one has to wonder if they are walking around speaking english to other gringos but speak spanish when need to.

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Leeroy says on Jun 10, 2007, 11:46:

Many of the expats that I work with have lived and worked in millions of countries. They reason that they will only be here for 1-2 years tops, and that it wouldn't be worth the effort. Plus, a lot of them are in their 50s - older people tend to find it harder to learn foreign languages. There are exceptions, of course...

If someone lives, works and socialises with English speakers then they would have little need to learn Spanish, apart from the "How to say your address to the taxi driver" type functions. While I personally find it a bit odd to live in a foreign country like that, a lot of people evidently do.

Oh, and for the record, yo si hablo espanol - aunque no diria que lo hable perfectamente. Tener una pareja de Colombia (quien no habla ingles) ayuda mucho, y, desde luego, salir de rumba con los Colombianos. De todas maneras, aprender un idioma es bastante dificil, y necesita mucha esfuerza - entiendo si alguien no cree que merezca la pena.

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Ekdog says on Jun 10, 2007, 11:52:

¿Por qué no aprenden inglés los latinos? ¿Es lo que quieres preguntarme?

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Ekdog says on Jun 10, 2007, 12:06:

"The same point could be made for the states and the people that don't learn english. Just a thought."

Annieb, I addressed that in my original post. Most Hispanics in the U.S. make an extraordinary effort to learn English. The problem is there is so much racism in the U.S.A. that many gringos don't want to recognise this.

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annieb says on Jun 10, 2007, 13:22:

I guess all I am saying is that this happens all over the world. People move and don't learn the language. I just don't think that we should blame the gringo when there are people from all over the word that are just as much at fault.
I do agree with you though, that if you move you should make all efforts to lean the language.

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podborski says on Jun 10, 2007, 14:10:

my grandmother used to mortify me when we rode the streetcar together and she complained loudly about all the chinese who were living in Toronto in their own isolated communities never learning english.

I thought she was a racist.

Sounds to me like you are too Ekdog.

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njtea5 says on Jun 10, 2007, 14:16:

Mi tia My tia has lived in the States for 32 years and cant speak a word of English my friend Steve Miller who is as gringo as they come has never lived outside the states and speaks better spanish then me...

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Lowell says on Jun 10, 2007, 17:05:

Speak Spanish I've been living in Colombia for over a year and a half. My Spanish is a bit of what I learned in school, travels to Mexico, working with Mexicans, 3 yrs in Panama and now Colombia. I've learned that if you don't speak exactly correct here you won't be understood. Also many a time when a Gringo/a opens their mouths to say something the receiving person basically shuts off their ears. Frustrating? A little effort would go a long way. Heck, half the time my wife, who is a native to this town has to repeat herself several times before being understood. What's up with that?

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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goin_south says on Jun 10, 2007, 18:55:

what town? maybe it's the listeners who have the problem Lowell, and not the speakers.

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 10, 2007, 19:49:

Most Colombians living in the US never learn English. In fact I haven't met any Colombians in or out of Colombia who can speak English at all. All they do is repeat whatever they're saying in Spanish except louder. I know some who have lived in the US for over 20 years and still can't speak a word of English. So they continue cleaning motel rooms or whatever menial job they can get without English.

The same goes for gringos in Latin America. They think the world revolves around them so why should they bother to learn Spanish. Even the jackasses on worldsexguide who plan to monger in Latin America will ask where they can find hos who speak English!

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 10, 2007, 22:22:

In my case, I have NEVER met a Colombian in the US that DOESN'T speak English. I know and have met scores over the years. Actually, that is a lie - though unintentional. My wife doesn't speak English. But she is learning and making efforts to speak the new words she is learning. It is extremely hard for me to learn Spanish ... but when I think back to where I was a year ago, I feel a lot better about it. I think for an adult to learn a new language, it is very difficult ... even for the most talented. I have met a few people who have learned Spanish when they were adults, are truly fluent, and I have the utmost respect for them. (Because I am intimately aware of the effort needed to learn a language)

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Miguel says on Jun 11, 2007, 09:25:

Ekdog En casos así en PBSH, es mejor callarse. No vale la pena.

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cayita says on Jun 11, 2007, 10:13:

Here it is for you the gringo that comes to a Latin country does not come to work usually. If he does it is usually in the embassy where they speak English but still you are required to speak the language of the country you are in to work there I think.

Anyway in general Latins go to the US to WORK therefor it is very important that they speak the language. The gringo's that I know do not work in Colombia. There income is from other sources outside of Colombia. Therefor there is no great need to learn the language. But most do speak it I have found they just prefer to speak in their native language. When a group of Latins are together in the states they speak in Spanish so your point does not hold water. My guess is you just have problems with gringos...

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pariahdog says on Jun 11, 2007, 10:38:

not 100% in the head Never attribute to malice or laziness what could easily be attributed to mere stupidity, a quality of which there is no great shortage in this world. There are two kinds of people. People for whom learning and speaking (non-native) languages is easy. And people for whom it is a near impossibility.

I am squarely in the latter camp and I can vouch that my lack of Spanish speaking ability has nothing to do with laziness or arrogance. I studied Spanish all the time when I was 'in country'. We are talking 4-8 hours a day of memorizing words from homemade flashcards, studying grammar rules, translating english prose into Spanish to the best of my ability, and practicing speech with locals.

I did learn a lot. I wasn't fluent by any means, but I did have around a 3500 word vocabulary and could conjugate the few verbs that I did know pretty quickly. I still could understand virtually nothing that was said to me which I can only blame partially on the Cuban accents. But I could talk a bit. And guess what happened after I left and stopped studying every single day? That's right. Hablo casi nada espagñol ahora.

Having observed people who could attain some fluency in a language, including a vocabulary of 7000-10000 words, in less than 6 months without opening a book or endlessly poring over flashcards, I would argue that there is an essential difference here. Call it intelligence if you want. You will get no argument from me there as I think memory is a major component of what we loosely refer to as intelligence. But the issue is more essentially one of memory (duh?, ahem).

People with excellent memories are able to pick up second (and third) languages fairly well, but there is a certain kind of ability that seems to mark out those who are truly gifted. Auditory memory. The ability to remember and then repeat/mimic exact speech sounds.

I used to have an African Grey parrot who could perfectly imitate voices and sounds. Individual voices, and coughs, throat clearing, door squeaks, phone rings etc. Some humans are pretty good at this sort of thing as well. And these are the people who can pick up foreign languages quickly, efficiently, and with virtually no foreign accent. I envy such people. A lot. I hate having to learn and re-learn the same material over and over again.

Now, if I moved permanently to a Spanish speaking country the situation might be different, but it would still take me at least several years of daily studying. I would have to make language study the absolute center of my life. So for those of you who don't get it that is why so many people living in foreign countries cannot speak the local language. For many people it is really, really, really hard to do.

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 11, 2007, 11:31:

Well said pariahdog.
Well said pariahdog.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Lowell says on Jun 11, 2007, 14:12:

ODTCRS I'm an "ODTCRS" or Old Dog That Can't Remember Shit. I tried taking classes. That didn't work at all. Especially when it came to sentence structure. I barely passed English classes when I was a kid. I listen to Spanish TV and a whole lot of Spanish music. That helps a little. Listening to tapes may help, but I don't have hours of free time to do that. I'm hoping that my 16 month old daughter will help. I plan on reading all her books with her and talking with her everyday in English and Spanish. My adopted colombain family and wife have stopped speaking to me in simple terms. To them the Gringo should have learned to speak by now. Jerks! Bottom line is that It's really hard to learn. My family has made no effort to even learn simple phrases or words in English. I look foreward to talking to my daughter in English and have them not have a clue to what's being said. My revenge!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Brians says on Jun 11, 2007, 15:52:

I like listening to these stories because I am basically at a point in my spanish where I feel tha it comes and then it goes. I study 4 nights a week with different teachers at a hour a pop. My wife can't seem to speak with me in spanish as her english is far superior to my spanish. When I speak with her in spanish she answers in english. I can't get her to get off that habit. Anyway I am 40 and it is very frustrating. I hope I do get it but to say that gringos don't learn is a generalization. I have a lot of Colombian friends and I would say the youger ones speak english and the older ones don't. I was with my wife's friend's family this weekend. They have lived here for 2 years and the mom and dad speak no english and the daughters are decent.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 11, 2007, 16:12:

I'm a gringo And I speak great Spanish, so blow me.

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lpdiver says on Jun 11, 2007, 16:18:

Get yourself a... very cute younger latina tutor. I bet you wife comes around.

t

"cook some rice!"

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 11, 2007, 16:39:

Yo tambien, Mr. Hollywood. I guess this means that Robert Jorge has the utmost respect for us, hehehehe. I have the reverse problem that you do, Brians, and I just stopped worrying about it. As long as you can communicate, who cares really?

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scotty says on Jun 12, 2007, 04:19:

no se porque ?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Brians says on Jun 12, 2007, 05:19:

My wife is not the problem as she speaks great english I just like to be more apart of her family and that requires more spanish. lpdiver my one teacher I use via Sype is a cute girl from Bolivia. She is a great instructor. Anyway I do see my wife get a little jealous when we I have class. It is kind of funny as she will ask me who my instructor is any given night and then walk around the room an look at the Skype picture. Anyway I just keep the video off now as I need to concentrate on the class and my wife wandering around is a distraction. So lpdiver funny you said that. Anyway I think I am at the point of about a 1500 word volcabulary and have gotten decent with conjugation and pronouns. I try to read a little everyday but it would be great if my wife would start speaking to me in Spanish. Her sister is here now from Colombia and she speaks no english so this is great practice. However this is funny as my sister-in-law and I speak in spanish my wife still talks to her in spaniah and then me in english.

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 12, 2007, 05:24:

Once a couple starts a pattern of communicating in a certain language they are stuck with it. After a while it becomes a habit and a very difficult one to break especially if one person has command of the language and the other person doesn't. Speaking to my wife in English is so excruciating I just can't manage it for more than a few sentences, then it's back to Spanish so we can talk like normal people.

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tompower says on Jun 12, 2007, 05:49:

Some people get it some people don't I've been going to spanish night classes for years and there's always people in those classes that just drive you mad. The teacher will explain something a million times and they still won't get it. Or no matter how many times the teacher tells them to say it a certain way they say it wrong. I think it just comes down to either you have the knack of learning another language or not.
If you've been living in colombia for years and you still don't speak spanish you just aren't a language guy. Don't beat yourself up. I know lots of guys down in cartagena that don't speak much spanish they seem quite happy. Yeah sure it would be nice to understand things better but who's got time for all that studying?
Remember, we're all in this together.
Tom Power

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 12, 2007, 06:03:

Speak Spanish day? I think the mods should delete any posts that are not in Spanish and force the entire site to be in Spanish.

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ColoradoGringo says on Jun 12, 2007, 06:32:

Ekdog the racist Typical Liberal comment about Americans being racist.If you don't agree with them and the open borders crew. We are racist because we do not favor illegals coming here. I been married to my Colombian wife for 5 years and its been the best of my years. She came here through the proper system. Her english is perfect and my spanish is poor. When we are in Bogota I do my best to speak spanish.The biggest racist I have met in my 56 years are always the ones calling others racist first.

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kalder says on Jun 12, 2007, 07:46:

ColoradoGringo I agree. 'Racism': Petulant liberal types seem to spend the word like small change. And rob it of any real meaning.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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CaptainHowdy says on Jun 12, 2007, 08:53:

Delete all non-spanish posts??? Darn, elrey, are you trying to shut down this site???
I´m still currently on vacation in Colombia and it´s a blast. I´m trying like hell to improve on my Spanish and I´m learning a few new words and phrases. To learn a new language, you´ve got to live it. Remember, you didn´t learn English by studying English. You learned English by using English! The problem for me is, however, that I don´t have a way of speaking spanish on a daily basis in the states. I live in a small town and the nearest 4 yr university is an hour away. I could take some conversational spanish classes there if it weren´t so darn far away. I guarantee that if I lived in Colombia for a year or more, I´d be able to communicate really well. Understanding what the other person is saying may be a different story. I cannot understand much of anything. Maybe it´s because others are using words I don´t know or maybe I´m just not used to the accent. However, I would love to learn spanish fluently but just don´t have the means as of yet. Maybe someday....

Teaching preteens the things they need to know!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 12, 2007, 09:05:

Captain, don't mind Utopia Cowboy (aka El Rey) he's just doing his two-bit trolling here again. I do have a suggestion, though: try to read our Spanish Only section, Español, just for practice.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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elchantajista says on Jun 12, 2007, 09:18:

que te pasa el dog yo puedo hablar spanish soy un gringo jodate, ok vamos a tener Pbh sin inglish
anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda en Bogota "Vicente"

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JMCana says on Jun 12, 2007, 09:20:

Generalizing Ekdog I believe you are generalizing way too much and not taking into consideration numerous factors. First, I can find in the USA groups of people whose first language is Spanish with some groups being fluent in English and others speaking very few if any words. So, it happens to be where you are at and what group you are associating with.

Next, the people are correct, there are those people who can pick up a language easily and those who can't. It has been proven through research that the the older the person, the more difficult it is to learn a language. The majority of Spanish speakers coming to the USA to live are younger. The majority of the English Speakers going to a Spanish speaking country to live are older. It has also been shown that some people are audio oriented and some are visually oriented. For example, my ex-gf is audio oriented. Her first language is Spanish and she picked up English easily as well as Hmong just from working with people who spoke it. But she did not graduate from high school because if she read it, she could not remember it. She finally got her GED because I read the books to her. Then she could remember the material. I am visually oriented. You can tell me anything and I can't grasp it. Even with Spanish I have to actually see the word written first. Until something rolls off my tongue, I have to first visualize the word in my head.

Those Norte Americanos who complain about people in the USA not speaking English and those Norte Americanos in Spanish speaking countries who speak little Spanish are NOT THE SAME PEOPLE.

I try to speak Spanish in Colombia as a matter of respect. I study every single day, but my Spanish is still below the ability to really carry on a conversation the way I want. Like others here, I speak Spanish to my wife whenever I can. However she speaks English back to me, especially if she wants to make sure that I understand. Just because I or others do not speak Spanish all the time fluently does not mean a disrespect for the country. But one of my peeves is that some Colombians I speak with know that I am trying to learn Spanish, but when I ask them to speak more slowly, they actually speed up. Now, that to me is disrespectful. I always slowed down and helped anyone in the USA trying to learn English. IMO anyone trying to learn a second language deserves much credit for trying.

Now let's go one step further. Go to any mall in Bogota and look at the number of stores who put their names in English. I was in Centro Chia this weekend and one store actually had "Happy Father's Day" in English on the window instead of having it in Spanish. And why do all the bars in Bogota advertise "Happy Hour" instead of Feliz Hora? Don't blame those things on the Gringos, the Colombian business people did that.

Now Ekdog tells us what incident prompted your rage?

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JMCana says on Jun 12, 2007, 09:27:

On the other side I can vouch for Rubito's Spanish. My Colombia wife says it is excellent. Of course I also believe the guy has a mind that does not forget anything as he keeps the lyrics in his head to more songs than a jukebox holds.

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Miguel says on Jun 12, 2007, 09:45:

Oye Simon " do know one thing for sure, if this site was entirely in spanish, there wouldn't be nearly as many bigoted jerks on it!"

Tienes razón.

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ecco says on Jun 12, 2007, 10:48:

Languages when I was in school over ten years ago were my least favourite and worst subjects. Now I do like them (and some other things I disliked the most in school) and would like to learn more.

I started learning Spanish at home using the internet a few years ago, and did an evening course where I lived. I also had a couple of private tutors for a year or two. I made every effort I could and liked to buy newspapers and in Spanish and watch films with the Spanish audio option. Dubbed american films etc in my opinion I've always found a lot easier to understand than listening to autentic spanish language ones and radio.

My level didn't really progress much until I did a month long intensive course in Spain, living with in the flat of a local couple. That one month helped so much. Then eventually I moved to Spain a little over two years ago. It improved only slightly as I was living with other English speakers. Only once I got a full time job in a Spanish speaking only company and living with local people again did it really start to improve. I've been at the same company now for nearly two years and so speak a lot all day long. And it's with those people I spend all my time speaking with that I speak the best- I'm confident and used to talking with them. Yet with new people or those I've seen around for ages yet don't speak with much (eg people from the gym) I jump right back and almost struggle to talk and make myself understood. Setting also makes a difference. Being in a bar with a drink has always helped :) Still reading is a good way to help I think. Even if it's relatively simple stuff, you see sentences and phrases that you hear day to day which helps things stick in.

So as others have said, you really need to make it your life I think. I'm sure others hve managed to attain a good level from books though.

Here in the south of Spain they speak with an accent and shorten words and miss out letters and pronounce some differently. Older people I find a lot harder to understand in general than the younger generation and I think it might be the same vice versa. I also find that with some people, as soon as they realise you're not a native speaker they then don't listen the same way and understand less of what I'm saying, even though I know what I'm saying and that I'm positive I'm saying it right.

Within a few months I'll be in Colombia so I'll be interested in finding out what it's like talking to them.

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podborski says on Jun 12, 2007, 11:14:

bigoted jerks being people who make inacurate, idiotic generalizations about whole races of people like:

"so many gringos that go to live in Spanish-speaking countries never learn more than a few words of the language"

Que te parece?

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lpdiver says on Jun 12, 2007, 15:20:

Most adults will... only learn another language when it is needed for day to day life.

t

"cook some rice!"

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dwmte7 says on Jun 12, 2007, 16:38:

yawn.... oh lord is this a sore subject with me.

i married my colombian wife 18 years ago--reverse racism--and she still has no command over the idiom. why? you tell me. maybe i/we just made it easy on her by speaking spanish at home. now, she would like to get a job, but no such luck. not in daytona the dull. hardly any latinos here. 18 miles away in deland florida theres a lot of them, but here in motorcycle/tattoo/nascar heaven, very few. i do however know what you mean. i've seen gringos and europeans there in medellin for years and they still don't advance in their use and enjoyment of the language. pity.
dw

dwmte

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 12, 2007, 17:15:

"I do know one thing for sure, if this site was entirely in spanish, there wouldn't be nearly as many bigoted jerks on it!"

De acuerdo, Senor. I don't know why Desi says I'm trolling when I suggest the idea of the site being all Spanish. Digame una buena razon porque no?

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goin_south says on Jun 12, 2007, 19:10:

someone said, if you don't speak perfect spanish down there.... they will ignore you.
That's a crock, too.
It's whether they have any/some interest in listening to you, or not.
Nothing to do with perfect spanish, in spite of what I have read on this site about 'COLOMBIANS BEING PROUD OF THEIR ESPANOL PERFECTEMENTE'. That's another CROCK!
I have forwarded letters from colombians to those who know, and been told, 'Wow, their spanish is not so good'.

I have had little problem, with people not going out of their way to try to relate to me in Colombia, or to understand what I was trying to say..., bad as my spanish is. (uhhh, about to repeat third grade all over again.)

But, I agree with ElReydetrolls... and if PBH was all spanish, I think my own would be much better. I would have struggled for a little while, instead of ... long while

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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Simon says on Jun 12, 2007, 19:44:

"I have forwarded letters from colombians to those who know, and been told, 'Wow, their spanish is not so good'."

Yeah, and who were these linguistc masters who told you this? Puerto Ricans or Dominicans? Don't make me laugh!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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goin_south says on Jun 12, 2007, 20:32:

other Colombians, simple simon.....other colombians. ...right here, from this site.

Notice, Simon, I didn't make a 'blanket statement'. It wasn't meant to cover the entire population. I jus get a lil disgruntled, reading about the 'supeerrrrrb' spanish of Colombia. Now, I think they are likely the best, as a whole, but... every populace has it's bimbos.

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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goin_south says on Jun 12, 2007, 20:36:

why so defensive about your espanol? when you know there are differences within every region EVEN IN GOOD OL' COLOMBIA.

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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Simon says on Jun 12, 2007, 20:40:

"I jus get a lil disgruntled, reading about the 'supeerrrrrb' spanish of Colombia."

I don't see why you should get " a lil disgruntled" about that. What do you care if Colombians speak great spanish or not? Get a life!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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Ekdog says on Jun 12, 2007, 21:31:

Thoughtful post, JMCana... It is also refreshing to read a post written by someone who knows how to string together a few sentences in English without the spelling and syntax errors that are so common in much of the writing that appears in fora frequented by ex-pat gringos. Is it any wonder so many of them cannot pick up a second language? They are hardly capable expressing themselves in their own mother tongue!

With regard to your question about what prompted my rage, I must tell you it was not any particular incident, but rather the general anti-Hispanic rhetoric that so many ignorant right-wingers in the States are spewing out these days. They are constantly blaming the Hispanic immigrants for all of the country's ills and accusing them of making no effort to learn English, which is rubbish, of course. I was raised in San Diego and went to college in El Paso, so I know what a strong effort immigrants from south of the border make to learn English. I think it is so ironic to observe how many of the same hate-mongering, immigrant-bashing, right-wing fools who are so quick to lash out at immigrants in the United States are incapable of learning Spanish when they go to live in a Latin American country.

Regards,

Ekdog

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Ekdog says on Jun 12, 2007, 21:45:

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo, Simón. He conocido a muchísimos colombianos que hablan perfectamente la lengua de Shakespeare. ¿Cómo es que tan pocos paisanos míos (soy estadounidense) se molestan en aprender el español cuando van a vivir en tu país? Es una vergüenza.

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Ekdog says on Jun 12, 2007, 21:53:

"I don't know why Desi says I'm trolling when I suggest the idea of the site being all Spanish. Digame una buena razon porque no?"

Porque casi todos los contertulios gringos tendrían que dejar de participar. ¡LOL!

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elchantajista says on Jun 12, 2007, 22:33:

Because "Porque casi todos los contertulios gringos tendrían que dejar de participar. ¡LOL!"
"Because almost all of the los contertulios gringos may have to quit participating" lol i think there is a lot more gringos that speak good spanish than u might think. there is alot of interest in learning spanish lots of pretty chicas to fuel that lol
anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda en Bogota "Vicente"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 12, 2007, 22:50:

Why, oh why do we write in English ? "Hi, my name is Peter. I am from Belgium, and I lived in Colombia in 1998 and 1999, when I started this website. I got to know great people and a great country. This website is for them."

Isn't this reason enough?
This website IS in English; that's the way it was intended to be.

Add all the practical reasons you can imagine to the equation.
I have no problem reading and writing Spanish myself.

Cheers,
Desi






"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Ekdog says on Jun 12, 2007, 23:47:

Why aren't gringos taught foreign languages at school? I was visiting my mother in Mexico a few years ago, and my young nephew came down from California to spend a couple of weeks with us. I noticed that he had a good ear for Spanish and that he managed to pick up a bit of it in the short time he was there. I asked him how he was doing in his Spanish classes at school, and I was surprised to hear that he wasn't taking Spanish, or any other foreign language for that matter, because there is no foreign language requirement in California schools. His mother, a right-wing Republican who believes in "English only," had advised him not to study Spanish.

Here in Spain, on the other hand, my son is required to study English and French. What gives?

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 13, 2007, 01:17:

To know another language is to possess another soul. I'm learning spanish because it makes me happy to communicate with some of the coolest, most down to earth people in the world in their own language.

Since learning this beautiful language, it has been a source of constant delight to have been exposed to some of the most insightful literature, the most incredibly humorous movies and involved in the most rewarding conversations in my life. I've read books by nobel laureats and nearly soiled myself watching Andreas Lopez taking the piss out of everything not nailed down - that guy is amazing.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I'm learning spanish for my own reasons. I guess that would put me into the good books with some people.

Having said that, I don't really give a cup full of cold snot what some xenophobic twit thought about me in the first place. If these clowns don't like people because they haven't learned their language well enough, then that says more about them than it does about me.

It's human nature to be afraid of people who are different to you and the people who whinge about 'gringoes' (i think that means people who are different to latinos) are always going to find new and better reasons to whinge about gringoes. Just like the people from some places who take the time to vent their fear that latinos are stealing their jobs etc etc.

Their source of discontent is not that gringoes aren't learning their language, or that some nasty latino immigrant is gunna steal their job, it's that these people different and that makes them scarey.

So don't worry EKdog, I'm not gunna tell anybody that you're just a big scaredy cat who probably sleeps with the light on as long as you don't laugh at some idiot gringoes who wet their pants every time they see a latino walking near their car.

Vive la difference!!!!! and let's all stop picking fights and try to get along.


Timefor.

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miamimike says on Jun 13, 2007, 03:26:

To Think, Some Gringos Move To Miami, A Suburb Of Habana Cuba Norte(actually Miami is a Commonwealth of Cuba) and refuse to Learn El Español. They come here to Barrios like Hialeah, Westchester, Coral Gables and expect to get by in English. The Gall they have! One Trip to Walmart in Hialeah(no ingles) and the Cubans soon put them in their place Langauge wise! LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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goin_south says on Jun 13, 2007, 03:32:

my 'linguistic masters' , SSimon, were a few colombians from this site, who do happen to speak and write excellent spanish.

(But, then...how would I know?)

Ciao! Gustav.

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aztec says on Jun 13, 2007, 04:57:

Ekdog, How in the hell did you manage... ...to put the two problems together. Seems you have racism on the brain. You are letting it cloud your thinking.

"Annieb, I addressed that in my original post. Most Hispanics in the U.S. make an extraordinary effort to learn English. The problem is there is so much racism in the U.S.A. that many gringos don't want to recognise this.
By Ekdog"

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jinksmiester says on Jun 13, 2007, 05:18:

I think making this site all spanish would be a bad idea...unless of course you are trying to keep people away, such as someone wanting to visit colombia looking for information. In its present state this web site provides a lot of information for first time forieners who wish to visit colombia but have never had the need or opportunity to learn spanish.It also helps those who as yet may not have perfect spanish(not a crime the last time i checked)seek information.
The feeling i get from some posters here is that they perhaps don,t want forieners to visit.Why is that??Not everyone who visits is sex perv or an arrogant fool who thinks his crap does,nt stink.A lot of good people go to colombia and contribute a value.Sadly it seems that pregidice /anger /and hate are alive and well on pbh.
As`for the original post my spanish if far from perfect but has progressed well enough that i can have a reasonable conversation.I now spend about a half hour a day taking a course (CD,s)and practicing spanish.My wifes family are from colombia and i think its important that speak spanish well...im not satisfied just getting by with it i want to speak and learn it about perfectly.
In my house (in canada)my wife and i talk spanish at all times.I don,t really know about others (gringo,s)...but when i eventually retire in colombia i don,t want to be walking around talking english while everyone else is speaking spanish...that would be dumb.
As far as all the bashing of others and other cultures...well as Rodney King put it....can,t we all..just get along.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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podborski says on Jun 13, 2007, 06:24:

well said, timeforachange I wonder if the few smug 'let's only communicate in spanish on PBH' realize how they resemble 5 year olds at elementary school trying to form little cliques: "no girls allowed" painted on the clubhouse door.

I personally can understand 95% of the spanish written here, and I should be fluent in another 6 months I'd say. Then I'd like to relearn all the french I have forgotten, or maybe try italian.

But I hope I'm never pathetic enough to think that's something to brag about.

BTW, the spanish only forum is open and waiting for you, UC, Simon, EKDOG. I think most of us would love to see you go have your little club in there :)

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lochdhu says on Jun 13, 2007, 07:39:

While my spanish is not that good, I do know enough to get by, and can't wait to get into a full time spanish class to bring me up to par.

which brings me to another question, I have been fluent in Sign Language since my teens, and always wondered if sign language has the same meaning /translation in South America/Colombia?

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JMCana says on Jun 13, 2007, 08:12:

Ekdog - who to blame? Ekdog – well, thanks for your compliment. Let me see if I can shed some light on why there is “anti-Hispanic rhetoric�. Your experience as noted is in two high concentration areas of Hispanics, mostly Mexicans. From my years in California I realized the prejudice from some who spouted the rhetoric. Most often those people had bad experiences with a Mexican. For example one had lost a job because the company decided to use outside contractors that happened to be almost all Spanish speaking only people. Another had one family of Mexicans rent the house next door, then 4 families eventually moved in. Only one person in the group spoke any English and then the guys uncle broke into my friends house and raped her daughter. Consequently such acts get spread quickly among the non Spanish speaking community quickly with that being their only context to judge the group by. Then in the Central Valley of California you have the large farmers still upset with Ceasar Chavez starting the farm workers union. And many people recall those days and the violence.

I was raised in the Midwest of the USA. There we had very few Spanish speaking people (in fact I never met one until very late in life). But it is a large union area. There the politicians played on the lack of personal experience of the people to say, “the Mexicans are taking away American jobs.�

Since there was no exposure to the Spanish speaking community the schools concentrated on the old accepted norm languages and those good for business such as French and German. And they were offered only in high school. I would like to say that as a member of the strategic planning committee of the local school in the Midwest, we were able to institute Spanish starting in 3rd grade. But what a fight that was with the community. My neice wanted to take Spanish in her high school, but they did not offer it. She was told they could not find a qualified Spanish teacher.

I would not blame the individuals who have not had the opportunity to be exposed to good Spanish speaking people. Like the general Colombian population, they are good people. As you may know, when someone visits Colombia they usually come away with a good and completely different idea than they came with. Blame TV and film producer Jerry Buckheimer for always having Colombians shown in his productions as drug dealers. Blame the politicians who use the platform to advance their cause and blame those Spanish speakers who have displayed a less than ethical or legal behavior.

But I believe that most who go to live in a Spanish speaking country try to learn the language and believe in respect for those living there. There are the exceptions like the American community in Costa Rica and the small enclave in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. Then there are the American tourists – well that is a whole different story.

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podborski says on Jun 13, 2007, 09:14:

at lochdhu A friend of mine who knows sign language (he has a deaf mute sister) and I were in Bogotá and a person came up to us and gave us a card explaining she was deaf and could we help her out.

My friend tried to communicate with her and she made an attempt to reply, but my buddy said she either didn't know how to sign or it was totally different to what he was taught.

I suspect she was not deaf at all and was faking it.

So, long story short, I don't know the answer to your question but I would like to know if that woman was scamming or not, jaja.

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Ekdog says on Jun 13, 2007, 14:17:

I never proposed a "Spanish only" policy, and I think those that did said it tongue in cheek.

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CaptainHowdy says on Jun 13, 2007, 15:55:

Is sign language considered a foreign language? About 10 years ago when I was in college, a classmate wanted to take sign language as a foreign language but sign language was not classified as a foreign language. Personally, I think it has all the merits of being a foreign language and should be classified as such. Granted, it is spoken using the hands and not the voice, but if you don't know the language, then it's foreign to you. That sounds to me like the makings of a foreign language.
I'm in my third week here in Colombia and it really irks me that I cannot understand the Colombians any better now than I could on my first day! I can still pick out the words I know but the rest is just rubbish. Any helpful hints on how to listen more effectively? Maybe I just need a larger vocabulary...
I live in Texas and I feel it should be mandatory that Spanish be taught starting in the first grade. There's no justifiable reason for it not to be taught. I teach in a school that is about 70% Mexican/Hispanic/Latino/Spanish (circle the correct word) and at least 80% of my students know even less Spanish than I do. How can they not know Spanish??? This is a small, rural farm community and I know their parents know Spanish. Hey, if there are 3 major sports (NFL,NBA, and MLB) then there can be at least 2 major languages!

Teaching preteens the things they need to know!

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podborski says on Jun 13, 2007, 16:09:

Listening and understanding is the hard part, for me anyway. I need to see the word written down before I 'get it'. Then I need to use it about 50 times very soon or I'll forget it.

I don't think you'll get much from listening to people if you are at a beginner level, because you won't recognize the various verb conjugations.

What helped me a lot to finally get to the point where I can understand conversations was to spend about 3 to 4 hours every day for maybe a month learning verb conjugations and then reading newspapers with my dictionary at hand.

It's tedious,it would take me an hour to read one or two pages, but I started to eventually recognize the subjunctive tenses and things like that, not to mention the context of how they are used.

To me it's like you need to have reached a certain level of vocabulary before you can really get the benefit of listening to TV or whatever.

I guess if you are a REALLY good listener, I mean you strain to hear every syllable, that would help a lot, but that's hard work.

Once I was past beginner I lived in an apartment with 4 or 5 colombianas for about a week, now that was a way to really learn a lot! If I could have spent 3 months doing that I'm pretty sure I'd be fluent. And probably dead or married too! :)

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aztec says on Jun 13, 2007, 19:19:

Is sign language considered a foreign language? CaptainHowdy, many colleges are now allowing sign language as a foreign language. It certainly caught many of the faculty off guard but many have come to accept it.

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 13, 2007, 19:45:

If as Desi says, "This website is for them." then the site would be in Spanish. It's a bit ridiculous to dedicate a site to Colombia and Colombians and then have the whole damm site (except one moribund Spanish section) in English. I guarantee you that a Spanish only policy would eliminate almost every problem that the mods have on the board.

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goin_south says on Jun 13, 2007, 19:50:

The Top Ten Reasons Why Gringos Don't Learn Spanish are: 1) It's just too damned easy; not a challenge, and we already know we can do it

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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goin_south says on Jun 13, 2007, 19:51:

The number one reason why teens in the usa take spanish: 1) Because it is said to be: EASY COURSE.

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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houstongal says on Jun 13, 2007, 19:59:

The #1 reason why I took spanish in high school Because I loved mexican food. For a girl raised on japanese food every day, this was a treat! Class field trips to a mexican restaurant was a much better option than french or japanese.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 13, 2007, 22:17:

"I guarantee you that a Spanish only policy would eliminate almost every problem that the mods have on the board." (UC)

Yes, along with 95% of the posters:) Give it up, UC, this site was created to cater to English-speakers and by an English-speaker. PBH as source of information would be practically worthless in Spanish, since Spanish-speakers already know almost everything we talk about here already. No, you say PBH IS already worthless as a source of information; an opinion which I DO NOT share, otherwise I wuoldn't be wasting my time moderating this board; just for your own entertainment.

Cheers,
Desi



"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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goin_south says on Jun 13, 2007, 22:29:

"...since Spanish-speakers already know almost everything we talk about here already..." jejeee...

Desi, did you have your tongue hard into your cheek when you wrote or thought that??? jajaa I bet you 'died laughing' at your own joke, as you knew it would create .....
jajaa

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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kalder says on Jun 14, 2007, 02:25:

"It is also refreshing to read a post written by someone who knows how to string together a few sentences in English without the spelling and syntax errors that are so common in much of the writing that appears in fora frequented by ex-pat gringos. Is it any wonder so many of them cannot pick up a second language? They are hardly capable expressing themselves in their own mother tongue!"

I trust such patrician disdain has put all you illiterate lowborn types in your place! :)

Hit the dictionary plebs, lest the young señorito grows weary anon and is in need of further refreshment...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 03:51:

circum ambages and other discursive periphrasis.
patrician disdain ? illiterate lowborn types ? plebs ?

Sir, your confounded, petulant scribblings appear to struggle vainly under the ponderosity of execrable circumlocution.

Just a thought.



Timefor.

A man with friends must show himself friendly.

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kalder says on Jun 14, 2007, 04:12:

Patrician disdain. Illiterate lowborn types. Plebs...is 'execrable circumlocution'?

You're no Cicero are you?

Back to your milk and cookies sport...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 04:57:

Cicero ? Only Cicero is a Cicero. Hence the name. Judging from your bombastic perorations, you fancy yourself a wordsmith. You are nothing more than a deluded farmer who believes wholeheartedly that all his geese are swans.

A cracked bell sounds badly.

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JMCana says on Jun 14, 2007, 05:00:

Spanish in America Midwest Ekdog - thought you might enjoy this article.
H.J. Cummins: New literacy training means smarter kids in any language
A popular class that trains child care providers goes Spanish. Learning in their native tongue helps them become better teachers.
By H.J. Cummins, Star Tribune
Last update: June 13, 2007 – 9:41 PM
t's like a pint-sized United Nations at Mari Carmen Ramirez's Bright Kids Child Care Center, a converted, gray-clapboard house in a quiet Bloomington neighborhood.
On any given day, parents originally from France, Germany, Nigeria, Vietnam, the Philippines, Colombia and Mexico drop off their youngsters on the way to work.
A big part of the appeal, they say, are the children's trilingual days, as conversations move around through English, Spanish and sign language.
Ramirez just got some encouragement from the Minnesota Child Care Resource and Referral Network, a statewide network of 18 local nonprofits that help families find child care, and provide training and support programs to child-care providers.
She is one of 14 metro Twin Cities child care providers who graduated Wednesday night from the network's first early literacy training in Spanish. It's a translation of the original Seeds of Early Literacy course created four years ago in English, which has graduated more than 2,300 Minnesota child care providers.
It's part of helping those caretakers prepare their young charges for kindergarten. With school readiness a big concern -- half the children enter kindergarten in the Minneapolis Public Schools without knowing their numbers, letters or colors, the district has said -- child care centers are seen as a good place to foster language and a love of reading in preschoolers.
The Seeds of Early Literacy course teaches providers the importance of starting with work so basic it's often overlooked. Just as you teach bicycle riding by pointing out the seat, the pedals, and the brakes, you teach reading by pointing out the basics of a book -- its cover, its author, even the customary practice of starting at Page One.
Other lessons cover the importance of having books around, of making story times engaging -- asking, maybe, "What do you think happens next" as you turn a page -- and always, always, showing great enthusiasm for reading, said Mary Wynne, the network's professional development director.
They are concepts that apply to all languages, but they are best understood when taught in a person's first language, which is why it was important for Ramirez to be able to take the course in Spanish, Wynne said.
"I understand probably 90 percent of English," said Ramirez, who grew up in Mexico and Texas. "But in my own language, of course, I will learn better."
Ramirez also found out about flash cards, for example, and what to look for in children's books beyond big, colorful pictures.
"My way of teaching was natural, but I wanted to learn the United States way," she said.
At Ramirez's center, the international parents believe in her special attention to language.
"The care is so good, the children love it here, and the Spanish is an added benefit," said Helen Adah, a native of Nigeria now living in Shakopee.
She and her husband, Anthony, take their three children, ages 4 years to 5 months, to Ramirez.
"I know reading is one of the most important things for all kids," Adah said. "It's good to start at an early age so they have a love of it when they grow up."

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kalder says on Jun 14, 2007, 05:07:

"You're no Cicero are you?"

Is bombast?

Hurry up with your milk and cookies now, you've clearly got some homework to do...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 05:21:

Bombastic "I trust such patrician disdain has put all you illiterate lowborn types in your place! :)"

Bombastic, aureate, petulant, condescending, patronising, bad mannered.


As for continuing this discourse until its inevitable conclusion, an eagle does not try to catch flies.

Goodbye.

Timefor.

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podborski says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:01:

I think you misunderstood kalder's post, timefor He was clearly poking fun at EKDOG's air of superiority and attempt to sound well educated.

Or maybe kalder misunderstood your reply, or I did, or, well now I am confused but I think you two are actually on the same page but don't realize it. I suspect alcohol is involved.

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:17:

hehehehehe LOL at podborski. I think you may be right :)

I would make amends with Kalder, but he called me "sport" (Grrrrrr) and said stuff about my cookies !!!!! LOL

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:18:

hehehehehe LOL at podborski. I think you may be right :)

I would make amends with Kalder, but he called me "sport" (Grrrrrr) and said stuff about my cookies !!!!! LOL

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:26:

hehehehehe LOL at podborski. I think you may be right :) I probably didn't follow the thread as closely as I should have.

I didn't want to spar with Kalder.......but as soon as he called me "sport" .......aarrrrrgggghhhhh.

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cayita says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:29:

While in Miami I was surprised to find out that I never had to use my English. Jackson Hights, nope I spoke Colombian. I can't understand a Colombian complaining about a few gringos not speaking Spanish? Where is there entire cities and neighborhoods that speak English only? I mean it really just is not a problem so why harp on it? I just don't get that one.

Actually I do get it as some people really have a problem with gringos but you know I can't help but think maybe their problem starts with them.

Learning a language is difficult and I for one am very glad I learned at a young age.

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kalder says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:37:

Magnate, philosopher, gourmet and now diplomat...

Podborski, you are indeed a luminary of this site :)

I only wish alcohol were involved; I'm languishing at work at this hour. But if it were, I'd stand you -and Timefor- a drink.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:44:

a drink :) I'd be honoured. :) Just don't make mine a milk please :)

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cayita says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:44:

Intelligence? Einstien never spoke perfect English. He always spoke with a very heavy German accent even after living in the US for years and years. So much for perfecting another language being a sign of intelligence. More I beleive if you don't learn it at a very young age it is dependent on your ability to remember. Some people just don't have that great a memory. Being able to remember is not a sign of great intelligence.

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kalder says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:48:

timefor The honour's mine.

Rest assured- it'd be the Amber Nectar.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 14, 2007, 06:49:

Cayita. Einstein didn't talk until he was NINE :O His parents thought he was retarded.

( i remember reading that somewhere) :)

Timefor.

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podborski says on Jun 14, 2007, 09:47:

you're too kind kalder wish I could take you up on the drink offer. Someday we'll manage it, maybe Bogotá, maybe Buenos Aires, maybe London.

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Monita Linda says on Jun 14, 2007, 09:53:

Dear Ekdog,I surely speak Dear Ekdog,

I surely speak more languages than you do and I'm currently learning Spanish, so what's the big deal?

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podborski says on Jun 14, 2007, 10:13:

my czech friend speaks 6 languages but she doesn't lord it over anybody.

And there is a reason for speaking at least 3 languages when you live in a country that has been occupied by Germans and Russians and is a short drive to so many other places where other languages are spoken.

North America is just not comparable. (Learning french is mandatory in Canadian schools by the way). Depending on where you live in NA, you might have to drive or fly a thousand miles or more to get to a place where they speak another language.

And if you go to Montreal and try out your high school french they will inevitably (out of kindness or to stop the torture of their beautiful language) reply in english.

The last time I was in the Southern USA I noticed a lot of gringos knew some spanish, certainly a lot more than say 15 years ago. And I think that will only continue as the spanish speaking population grows there.

But I don't ever see the average North American learning 2 or 3 languages, there is just no need for it, unlike if you lived in Europe.

It is a shame, obviously you miss out on a lot while travelling or living in a foreign country when you can't communicate with locals, but it's pretty low on the list of things to complain about.

I like the idea of having a one day spanish only PBH, it would force me to practice.
But just one day.

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ColoradoGringo says on Jun 14, 2007, 16:18:

Don'tyou get tired? I am totally amazed someone is considered a racist if they have a problem with ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS . I think you will find far more racism in "La Raza" and their members than in any republican party members. Of course there are exception to both. I have listened to all of the so called right wing dudes on the radio and haven't discovered one yet. Remember, it was the republicans who faught and won a civil war to rid America of slavery. I know for a fact if you try to enter any other country illegaly you will be arrested. Try Mexico or Canada and find out what happens.I know Colombia frowns on that from other S.A. countries. Are they racist too?
Cayita gets it

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 15, 2007, 05:47:

I used to speak French to plenty of Frenchmen, even a few Parisians, and while they could clearly tell that I spoke like a Quebecois, they could easily understand me. Maybe I should credit one of my French teachers, Madame de Verteuil, a former Corsican beauty queen.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 15, 2007, 06:01:

like my dad used to said " I speak 3 languages, Costeno, Spanish and S**t :)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 15, 2007, 06:03:

In elmo's case English, Spanish and S**t

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nine inch nails says on Jun 15, 2007, 14:13:

You mean like Colombians, Cubanos, other Spanish speakers etc. in Miami primarily speake solo Espanish, even out in Weston or at Sawgrass Mills mall? Amazing! Latinos migrating north and gringos migrating south. I love it.

get down, get down. are you afraid of the boogie monster?

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Miguel says on Jun 15, 2007, 14:32:

Jejeje Gail...diganos

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goin_south says on Jun 15, 2007, 16:43:

What is it you would like to know, miguel? How many more weeks before the Yankees catch Boston?
Solo pocas semanas; no damasiada.

Voy para del Sur

Ciao! Gustav.

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morphus says on Jun 16, 2007, 14:20:

Why bother learning Spnish? Just show them the money and watch them all jump :)

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goin_south says on Jun 16, 2007, 15:12:

una punta buena .
pero, algunas hombres tiene solo poco dinero.
so, they have to take spanish lessons,
to make up the difference ;)

Ciao! Gustav.

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aztec says on Jun 16, 2007, 15:12:

We have room for but one language here, and that is English "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated
on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage
to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.
But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American,
and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here.
Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag..
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...
and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Monpirri says on Jun 16, 2007, 22:07:

You guys are all wrong! Mission Impossible? I know a "gringo" as you people call them here. He was born in the states, an US citizen and both of his parents were born in the US.
He has a Colombian girlfriend and he is bilingual and fluent in Spanish! He speaks and writes Spanish better than any foreigner here and better than any Colombian who lives abroad for many years.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Jun 16, 2007, 22:15:

"MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" Theme from "MISSION IMPOSSIBLE"


This thread will self-destruct in Five Seconds!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2007, 00:11:

Hey Monporri! that video was really cooooooollllllllllll....the lady in the jumpsuit was hot! jajajaj...can you translate the text for us??? =)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)....Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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markiev says on Jun 17, 2007, 03:54:

I'm a little late on finding this thread but would like to share my story....A few years back while flying to Colombia via lovely Copa airlines through Panama i was seated next to an older american lady. She told me that every winter she would fly to Chile and spend 3 months over there to avoid our(usa) winter...I was taken aback by her arrogance and ignorance in not wanting/caring to learn spanish. She could not speak one word of spanish..As we stopped in panama for our layover i ran into her in the only restaurant in that airport struggling to order from the menu. She looked to me for help and I politely refused...The arrogance and ignorance of many north americans is in my opinion why we are looked at with such disdain around the world.

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Monpirri says on Jun 17, 2007, 06:01:

Miguel Yes, I agree. The video is pretty cool!!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jun 19, 2007, 01:36:

arrogance and disdain Many might opine that an image of arrogance and disdain stems from a petulant reluctance to help others in need even though you are fully empowered to do so.

Judge not lest thee be judged.

You should have helped the old lady eat.


Timefor.

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gringolondinense says on Jun 19, 2007, 03:36:

holy shit!! I think im gonna self destruct after seeing those japanese babes. That one in white standing up is very classy. Its amazing isnt it? Suddenly classical music seems worth listening too....I might even start taking violin lessons. :-).

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