Why Don't Colombians Understand Gringo Spanish?

Jebediah says on Jan 12, 2006, 02:15:

hahaha sounds a little like my spanish! :)

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Miguel says on Jan 12, 2006, 02:39:

IMHO Well, if you indeed said "puedo hablar con", that would be strange Spanish, because you made a statement that "you can speak with...". Better stated would have been the question "¿podría hablar a ...?
Audio lessons have their place, but at some point, you need to study the rules of grammar.

Special thanks to PBH member Greenday for motivating me to do so. It's still a work in progress.

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Lowell says on Jan 12, 2006, 04:39:

same for me My wife insists that my Spanish be correct and many people have commented that I have very little to no accent. Yet, when talking to people in Panama and Colombia, many times their ears shut down. First you can see the light go off in their eyes, then the ears follow suit too. The same thing would happen to my wife while we were living in Panama and she spoke her Colombian (more correct) Spanish. There were times that I would have to speak for her. Gringo's seem to accept broken English that is spoken with tones of Spanish, Asian....... I fail to see why others can't do the same.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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el flaco says on Jan 12, 2006, 04:47:

it's the accent It takes a while to get used to an accent, while I was in Colombia talking to locals in Spanish, my Colombian guide would repeat everything I said without corrections so that they could understand and similarly with her English talking to tourists. The whole holiday was spent with an accompanying echo.

Mind you I understood them well enough.

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wOw says on Jan 12, 2006, 04:57:

Its the accent... Its defenitley the accent, especially with your example of the old lady, lol.

You could say things a little different in spanish that what the custom would be in Colombia but if they understand the words they would be able to tell what your saying for sure....

For example the correct way in english to ask to speak to someone would be "May I please speak to John?". But if you said "Can you pass me to John?" Def the second way is not the CORRECT way if we're talking about good english. But someone knowing good english will DEFENITLEY KNOW what your trying to say even though it wasn't the correct way.

Same things with spanish. So if someone doesn't understand what your saying I would bet its because of your accent, pronounciation of the words.....

Don't get discouraged though, you just need to keep practicing the spanish and it will get better..

wow

[img]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/JPMiami/neonsignzs7.png[/img]

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rocinante says on Jan 12, 2006, 05:19:

Que lástima WoW is totally correct with the English language/speakers being more forgiving - knowing with the broken speaker is trying to say. Even when we tranlsate backwards to English (literally) "tengo mucha hambre", "Llevo cinco meses estudiando el español" we as English speakers can figure this out.

But dont translate literally - please, as it will result in a 70%+ loss of correct speaking to the Spanish Speaker.

To expand on Wow's post...

pronounciation is more important in Spanish than it is in English. One word in a two word sentence with an emphasis(accent) on the wrong syllable - PRONOUNCED EXACTLY THE SAME - changes the speaker and the tense of the sentence - "I'm talking a lot" = "you said a lot"

The best way to learn Spanish is to forget English. Learn the concept (in a non language specific kind of way) and attach the Spanish to that concept - dont attach the Spanish to the English which attaches to the concept. conceptSpanish - not conceptenglishspanish. This is tough to explain on a forum but I keep attempting it for some strange reason.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Wastelandlive says on Jan 12, 2006, 05:27:

Clarification from a native speaker? I don't agree with this:

"Well, if you indeed said "puedo hablar con", that would be strange Spanish, because you made a statement that "you can speak with...". Better stated would have been the question "¿podría hablar a ...?"

It looks to me like both phrases can be interrogative - it simply depends on the inflection at the end of the sentence. I think the difference between "puedo" and "podría" is the difference between "can" and "could," the former being technically incorrect yet acceptable in common useage in both languages.

Could a native speaker comment? In truth, I find Colombians reluctant to correct me out of courtesy, and if I've been saying it wrong all this time, I'd like to know...

Wasteland

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wOw says on Jan 12, 2006, 05:50:

Agreed Wasteland... "Puedo hablar con" translated literally to english is "Can I talk with".... And it is CORRECT to say it like that but its just a bit more informal. Remember there is more than ONE way to say that phrase correctly. If you wanted to be respectful and formal then you say "Podria hablar con...?" That is right also but just a different way.

The difference between podria and puedo is the formality of it. If I'm talking to my brother I would talk informally and say "puedo", if I talk to a doctors office or someone I don't know I would be formal and curteous and say "podria". I would say that is the biggest difference. Its the same in english being informal you'd say "Can I talk to..." being formal you would say "May I speak with". To totally different ways of saying it... the main thing is that one is more formal and the other informal. But both would DEFENITLY BE UNDERSTOOD with any person speaking good spanish, just as the two phrases in english would be understood by and english speaker.

"Podria hablar a" is TOTALLY WRONG and makes no sense at all. Take it out of your vocabulary.

wow

[img]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/JPMiami/neonsignzs7.png[/img]

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wOw says on Jan 12, 2006, 05:59:

Clarification Wasteland, my misunderstanding I apologize you were simply commenting on what "Miguel" said.

You are right in your comment they are both interogatives and are just 2 diferent ways of saying the same thing.....one being more proper or correct than the other but nonetheless both understood perfectly....

wow

[img]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/JPMiami/neonsignzs7.png[/img]

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Saltador says on Jan 12, 2006, 08:04:

WoW Great explanation. Better than some of my spanish teachers, maybe that's why mi espanol es todavia mal...

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Albatross says on Jan 12, 2006, 08:08:

"Puedo hablar...", like much in Spanish, can be either declaritive OR interogative, depending on the speaker's inflection.

In other words, it means both "I can talk..." AND "Can I talk... ?"

If it sounds like a statement, it is.
If it sounds like a question, it is.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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wOw says on Jan 12, 2006, 08:45:

Saltador Hey man I'll be more than glad to teach you some spanish....

Just repeat after me "Hola como estas?" (o-la co-mo s-tas)

;)

wow

[img]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/JPMiami/neonsignzs7.png[/img]

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Sam Salmon says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:00:

"The best way to learn Spanish is to forget English" Si es la verdad!
Gringos are lazy in both pronunciation and grammar.
A person has to become used to hearing their own voice in another language.
While my Spanish is poor my pronunciation is excellent because I take the time to listen to how words are spoken.
A good example is the DTH sound like in Trinidad-most Gringos take years to get that one.
Also keep it simple-when phoning somewhere I'll say "Elmo Por Favor" that's enough for anyone to understand.



' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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bufalo says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:09:

in my experience it's my gringo face that they don't understand, not the accent. I walk into a pizzeria, POINT to a hawaian pizza and say "una porción de hawaiana, por favor" fifteen years working on my accent. the girl (working at a pizzeria, what could the customer want?) already has a "what is this guy saying" - retarded look on her face because she thinks she isn't going to understand me. Happens all the time, hasn't happenedon the phone, why? no face.
I see this a lot, just walking into a place, the person I have to talk to just looks at me and shows they won`t understand anything I say.
also, any accent from one part of the country sounds a bit odd in another, sometimes people don`t understand my wife, born and raised in Colombia when we go to other parts of the country.
For those of you whose only latin experience is colombia, rent a movie made in Argentina or uruguay, see how much dialouge you can understand, do the same for your colombian partner, they will probably have less trouble than you, but a lot of trouble as well.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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rocinante says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:16:

Imperfect subjunctive "The difference between podria and puedo is the formality of it. If I'm talking to my brother I would talk informally and say "puedo", if I talk to a doctors office or someone I don't know I would be formal and curteous and say "podria"."-WoW

Or you can kick it up to the last notch of formality/politeness and use the imperfect subjunctive: "pudiera" (no written accent). But that would be similiar to, "would you be so kind as to..." JM2centavos

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Miguel says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:23:

Thanks for the information! In my post I omitted a reference to inflection because there were no question marks, so it appeared to be a statement.
I definitely screwed up using "hablar a ____", according to three native speakers; "con" is correct. All three did say that the use of "podria" in semi-formal Spanish was acceptable.

De nuevo, grácias.

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Miguel says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:36:

Sample Colombian Accents On Radio Caracol, there's a late night talk show called "Noche Buenos Días". The co-hosts are in the Bogotá studio and they take calls from all over the nation, along with listeners on line from all over the world. After a while. your ear starts to tune in to the subtle and not so subtle differences of Colombian Spanish.

As in late night call-in radio shows everywhere, the occasional drunk gets on air, and then they just sound like corronchos. It's hilarious when the well-spoken hosts start asking "¿QUE? ¿COMO?"

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SiempreHero says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:49:

It is not the phrase, it is the lack of protocol I believe that you would have gotton request answered "Puedo hablar con" had you observed first the correct conversational protocol to begin with. You should never start out any conversation (in Colombia at least) with a direct request. You must always first give a formal greeting like "Buenos Dias", "Buenos Tardes", etc. Second, you should announce who you are and what relationship you have calling the party. IE "Yo soy Senor Smith, el amigo de Sofia". When you have correctly announced yourself, you can then begin to make your requests. However, it is even better if you take the time to ask the answering party how they have been. I guess the Colombian culture is kind of like that of Japan, in that you should observe formalities in conversation as well as have the correct spanish.

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Saltador says on Jan 12, 2006, 09:53:

WoW Thanks! Now if you could teach me how to tell a chica I think she is pretty, I'd be set!

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morphus says on Jan 12, 2006, 10:04:

bufalo is correct. They don't understand you before you even open your mouth and give you that weird look. If its a girl working at a casino, restaurant or hote,l I tell her "i love you" in English. They understand that and start to loosen up.

Being formal all the time is annoying. I just want to say "hola". I don't want to go through the whole buenas tardes thing.

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Miguel says on Jan 12, 2006, 10:18:

íMaldice morphus! Erés tan suave.

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wOw says on Jan 12, 2006, 10:39:

PROTOCOL??????? What?? Following protocol HAD NOTHING TO DO with why he was not understood. Its all in the ACCENT. The guy could've used a rude protocol and not said "hola mi nombre es.." and he still would've atleast been understood when he asked "podria hablar con...?". Or he could've even not said a thing and just gone straight to the request.

Even if he would've followed protocol he would've been in trouble because as soon as he would've opened his mouth the accent would've been evident and the old lady would've passed the phone on.....

And yes I do agree with the "as soon as they see you" they already don't understand you.... they already have it in their brain that they won't understand, so even if you do say something right they still don't understand.

OR maybe in MORPHUS case, they are so MESMERIZED with his looks that they're just totally speechless..

SALTADOR, this is how its said: "Que linda mi amor! Quieres ma...." no better not.....

wOw

[img]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/JPMiami/neonsignzs7.png[/img]

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morphus says on Jan 12, 2006, 10:42:

pues si El mas suave gringo hay y habra.

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Miguel says on Jan 12, 2006, 10:52:

Gringos Respect accents and tenses.

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rocinante says on Jan 12, 2006, 11:39:

mas suave I was in the MED airport, surrounded by tons of Spanish speaking people (for the past 10 days.) When the DAS guy asked me something in english, I could not understand him at all - my ears were waiting for him to say something in spanish, and when he spoke I thought he was speaking spanish. My brain was in Spanish mode. His english was not that bad. Once I switched, my ears were 'ready' for the broken english and I fully understood him. Had I known from the offset that he could speak english and that he would be attempting to speak to me in English, I would have been ready - not saying, "¿como?, ¿Puede hablar más despacio, por favor?"

I think english speakers approaching foreigners should begin every encounter with a slow, clearly annunciated greeting, complete with the 'buenos Dias. Soy… ¿Como se encuentras' (or ¿como está Usted? If you really don't care how they are doing and just want to stick in the formality.) - Just like the another poster recommended. Once you have done that the person on the other line will be ready for the rest of the gobbleygook you spew out.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 12, 2006, 12:02:

I hate it when that happens.... WRT: "my ears were waiting for him to say something in spanish, and when he spoke I thought he was speaking spanish."

because then you look REEAAALLLYYYY stupid.

My problem is that if I answer in spanish, they'll go on as though I'm 100% fluent (I'm not). If I answer in english, I have to try and figure out what they are saying in broken english.

They never seem to have enough english to speak english or enough patience to speak spanish.

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Albatross says on Jan 12, 2006, 12:15:

Que ? "They never seem to have enough english to speak english or enough patience to speak spanish."

I know EXACTLY what you mean, I sometimes feel like I'm in some kinda linguistic no-man's land. It gets so bad that I'll go through periods where I don't even want to speak 'cause it's just not worth the trouble. I get soooooo tired of saying "despacio por favor" or "lo siento, pero no entiendo". Two days ago, I spent 10 minutes on the phone trying to get the other party to understand the phase "e-mail". I repeated it a dozen times and desperately threw in terms like "direccion electronico", "Computer" and "Internet", but to no avail - it was like I was speaking Swahili to a Martian.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Saltador says on Jan 12, 2006, 12:44:

Albatross/WoW If I had a peso for each time I said the following:
"Lo siento, no entiendo" or "Lo siento, mi espanol no es muy bueno" I'd be a rich man! (BTW, it's "correo electronico").
WoW: elmo told me to just smile and say "prefiero un burra, pero creo vas a estar iqual" or something like that. Will that work?

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rocinante says on Jan 12, 2006, 13:51:

crazy4Cali "...because then you look REEAAALLLYYYY stupid. "


crazy4Cali, this was the exchange from my viewpoint:

DAS guy:"jh&uu--, NNf !"

dumb me:"Puede hablar más despacio, por favor?"

DAS guy:"jh&uu--, NNf !"

dumb me:"como?"

DAS guy:"&6TT gsg?"

dumb me:"que?"

DAS guy:really slow - "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH ? "

dumb me:"si"

DAS guy:really slow - "IS THIS YOUR BAG ? "


To me, he sounded like the teacher in Charlie Brown.

I'm much better now, thank goodness - me defiendo, gracias a Dios.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 12, 2006, 14:05:

I'm sorry Rey del pollo but you are dealing with Russian maybe, if you ask me que hora son or puedo hablar con..pepe,maria ETC I know exactly what you mean.

engage brain before opening mouth

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Colombiche says on Jan 12, 2006, 14:18:

My father Still asks me to make all his english language phone calls for him. he speaks english with a thick Colombian accent, when he talks to people on the street, they just stare at him and say "What?"

GIB -- I can see a newbie Colombian in the States would feel timid to speak English because of the accent and all (happened to me), but I can't see a Colombian in Colombia feeling the same way, after all, they are in their home turf and the fact that they speak a second language is an added benefit.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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platano says on Jan 12, 2006, 19:10:

GIB, here is how to turn the ears back on... The same thing happened to me: ears turned off when they heard me speak. And when it happened I directed myself directly at the person who was acting like I was a Martian and I said in my best Spanish: "¿Hablas español?"

I never came across a single Colombian who answered no to that question. Communication had been established!

So, I then followed it up with another phrase, which I tried to pronounce as clearly as possible: "Yo también" and we continued trying to communicate. I found eye contact, speaking as distinctly as possible, helped. Caveat: nothing will help if you are really butchering their language!

Of course, acquaintances get used to your accent and have no trouble. In fact, I wanted them to correct me and they wouldn't because they understood well enough. uuuffff!

plátano

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Gator says on Jan 12, 2006, 19:19:

It Is Amazing... as GBI says, how many turn off if they think you are a gringo and I speak excellent Spanish most of it learned in Colombia. I just say "Soy un boliviano," everyone gets at good laugh, and the conversation takes off from there.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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platano says on Jan 12, 2006, 19:27:

Gator, that's funny I did something similar with taxi drivers... As soon as I spoke they would ask: "¿De dónde eres? and I started saying: "Soy de Caquetá" and when I got the inevitable look of disbelief I would follow up with, "Ud. conoce Caquetá" being pretty sure the taxi driver had never been there. So, when he (or she) said, "No" I would casually reply, "Pues, asi hablamos en Caquetá"

I got some satisfaction out of the exchange, even if they never really believed me.

Oh, the other thing I would do is say "Mis padres me llevaron a gringolandia y allí se me pegó este maldito accento. :)

plátano

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bufalo says on Jan 12, 2006, 19:44:

very good idea, a couple of times I said I was from uruguay or argentina, they bought it. for some reason, I swear this is true and wierd, every time I go to colombia from the states, the first 2 months or so, every cabbie thinks I´m brazilian, second guessing from every country but the states. after the 2 months i´m a dead hit for a gringo, I don´t understand it

I notice this stuff in reverse too. I see spanish speaking people in NY that have trouble because their english is just slightly... out of whack, completely understandable, but not 100% and people throw their hands up because they don`t understand them.

I also noticed both english in colombia and spanish in the states, is when you ask someone to repeat a phrase, they tend to repeat, several times, the most frigging obvious word or words, and don`t repeat the difficult part that you problably didn´t understand in the first place. my wife even does this to me. she`ll say:

"blah,blah,blah blah en la calle"

I´ll say "¿qué?"

she´l repeat, louder each time "en la calle", En La Calle!", "EN LA CALLE!"

I smile and tell her to repeat the whole phrase please, but think "I UNDERSTAND "EN LA GODDAM CALLE", BUT WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING EN LA FRIGGING CALLE!"

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Gator says on Jan 13, 2006, 07:43:

The Key Is NOT.... to just speak louder you MUST wave a $100 bill in the air when doing this. It's not really YOUR fault. Remember, most gringos are multilanguageless. This, I believe, is because a large chunk of the gringo brain that controls the ability to speak a foreign language has gradually withered to the size of a muscat grape in autumn.

One thing to ALWAYS remember is that if you try and say something in Spanish there is an excellent chance you will be answered in Spanish so stay on your toes.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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landcruiser77 says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:05:

because the same reason you don't understand spanish !!gringo!!! gringo spanish what the f?*(* !!!
try chinese gringo it would be better
the clown said:you are a moron
best defense.shut your mouth and enjoy the ride

£æ

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mojoj1224 says on Jan 27, 2006, 14:24:

don't take it personally It is not your fault if they can not speak and understand perfect spanish. I was with my friend from bogota and we were in the costal cities and many people could not understand what she was saying and vice versa. Someone actually thought she was from Spain! The people on the coasts make fun of the people inland and the inland people make fun of the costal people. There were some people there that I could not understand and they could not understand what I said.

And yes, it is a shock to hear someone speak english when you are not expecting it. You do have to turn your brain back on after speaking (or trying to) in spanish.

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