Why do Colombian people have to have new flashy things

adrimm says on Jun 1, 2005, 15:06:

Garage sales Take her Garage sale-shopping so she can see it is the cultural norm for people to use used items and also how gently used most baby items are.

Put it to her this way: she can either buy cheap new crap at Walmart or get quality, labelled (Osh Kosh, etc) as-new clothes.

Encourage her to accept some of the clothes (and baby stuff is so gently used anyhow) graciously and offer it to others when she is through with it.

utopiacowboy says on Jun 1, 2005, 15:30:

Kick her to the curb, Kerry, er, I mean Maleorange.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

daver says on Jun 1, 2005, 15:45:

maleorange,

I have found this to be a huge cultural difference also!

Colombians put a high premium on personal appearance (and personal hygiene) and in general, Colombians dress better than most cultures.

I grew up wearing my brother's cloths. Yes, my brother grew up in the 70s, and I in the 80s, so I was the kid in Grade 1 with the flared out collars and bell-bottom jeans. When I got new cloths, they were not flashy. While at University, I shopped exclusively at used clothing stores. I hate the fact that there are either no used clothing stores in Medellin, or my Paisa wife will not show me where they are.

I was passed a advertisment on Calle 10 about a month ago... it was a sale for baby gear (cribs, toys etc...) and I thought I would pass it on to my wife's friend who is due to have a baby soon. My wife laughed.... "oh, she will want only new things". And I replied "well, we can give it to her anyway...." and my wife just shook her head.

So I gave it to this girl, and she kinda gave me a look like "what do think I am homeless??"

Although, if I were you, I would jump on any opportunity to get cheap, used cloths for babies (they grow like weeds), but I am pretty sure my wife would have no part in this (cloths anyway).

This is just part of their culture I believe. While kids in poor neighbourhoods probably have no choice when they are little, when they get older they seem to have new shoes, new pants, new everything. I see it all the time on the Metro. Teens from all over Medellin, all with the latest fashions (whether cheap or expensive)... I remeber taking the bus in Canada, with torn jeans, old cloths, and tattered shoes. I didn't feel so bad about it either.

While and American or a Canadian spend their money on such things as restaurants, camping gear, cars and car insurance, car sterios, computers, stereos, CDs, sports gear, rock concerts, SUVs, musica instruments.... etc... Colombians are very frugal with these things... but cloths that is a different story.

I can't help you with your problem, but if your wife stone-walls you on this one, I would not be surprised. If you go ahead and buy these things anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if she has one of those latina super-novas where you want to hide in the closet for about a day. She may resent it forever, and never see your point of view.

Everyday my wife tells me "you need new cloths" and I reply "I don't NEED new cloths... mine are just fine". It is a never ending battle, but for the sake of compromise, I have bought a few things.

She has also had to adjust to my cultural differences. For one, I cannot, I MEAN CANNOT, wear shoes in peoples houses, yet here it is done all the time. I still take off my shoes, and my wife has stopped getting mad when I do. Also, I insist on bringing wine or desert to people's homes when we are invited over (it is impolite, in Canada anyway, not to)... I guess this is not necessary here in Medellin, but my wife compromises and does not make an issue out of it when I insist we go to the Exito and get wine before we head over to someones apartment.

"Is Colombia a flashy superficial culture or what."

I don't think they are. You can make cases here and there, but you can do the same for many cultures. This is simply the way they are... it is important for them to wear nice new cloths. Very important.

Although I cannot really understand it (and I long for the days of Wallmart and second hand clothing stores) I accept it as I would not like it if my wife would not accept how I am different.

Well, good luck... I could be wrong (you can't blanket stereotype and entire culture, but I think I am right on this one) and I hope you two can compromise....

Dave

BlondeJamesBond says on Jun 1, 2005, 15:59:

Adrimm I think Londonmale/Kerry/maleorange is going to have a tough time taking this imaginary wife/girlfriend of his to a garage sale - he'll look even more of a prick than normal when he is talking to himself.

Kerry - I agree with UC - ditch this figment of your limited imagination before she bleeds you dry

mrgizmo says on Jun 1, 2005, 16:11:

It has to do with the fact that... there's descrimination between social levels, although not as accentuated as it was years ago. Most people want to pretend that they belong to the higher middle class simply because they don't want to be looked down upon. Back in the old days in Bogota you wore a business suit to just about everything including picnics and BBQs no matter how hot the temperature was. Some of us still feel that you're judged according to the way you are dressed.

Behind every successful man, there's a nagging woman

carter says on Jun 1, 2005, 16:33:

Give a Colombian 200.000 pesos They'll buy a 200.000 peso cell phone to update from last years model which they have. They then won't have a peso to buy pre pay cards for it and then ask to borrow yours so they can make calls.

kernow62 says on Jun 1, 2005, 16:58:

I thought there was a bit of a stigma attached with used clothing. Something that if you receive used clothes some sort of bad kharma might come with the clothes. It might have been something about if you buy cheap your income will drop to match, but if you buy expensive it will somehow effect your monetary fortunes.

Lauthra says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:16:

Yes Take UC advice Kerry, I mean, Londonmale, I mean Maleorange.
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

Colombiche says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:44:

Daver I found it really hilarious that you should bring up the "taking off your shoes when you go to people's houses" situation.

I am a colombian born woman, but I moved to Canada with my family when I was 9. I remember being in utter shock when I saw that I had to take off my shoes when we go to people's houses. My whole family was like "Whaaaattttt??? What the hell?????".

See, in Colombia this is a big NO NO. The way my mother describes it is "Nuevos Ricos". She thinks that people that make you take off your shoes are poor people that never owned a house, so when they actually have one they are so paranoid about keeping it clean :) I bet you many old fashioned upper class colombians would agree with my mother's theory.

I know here in Canada it also has to do with the winter, those boots getting all dirty outside in the slosh... Mind you, after 17 years of living here, I still can't figure out why you have to take your shoes off in the summer.

Maybe it also has to do with the fact that in Colombia people tend to have maids who mop the floor for them, while in Canada usually both spouses work and they can't afford the luxury of having a maid (darn, a maid in Canada costs a fortune, try like 150 bucks a day to get your house cleaned).


I do think that Colombians are very conscious of our appearances. I tell you, I always put on a bit of makeup before leaving the house. I never go out in sweatpants and running shoes unless I am going to the gym. High heels are like my walking shoes and the clothes must be a bit figure revealing (colombianas are not big fans of baggy clothes).

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:52:

This is the same story This thread remind of the other one that is still active. Colombian people are really strange about this status thing or "keepong up with the Jones'"

I see this in Chicago all the time. Colombian people working at or near minimum wage, will move into a small apartment, clearly more people than there should be, and then they go out and find someone to cosign on a note to buy a new car. These is the Colombian way. The Mexicans come here and buys any junk that starts. But a Colombian will have no part of it. They buy a base Chevy Cavalier or Ford Focus, pay sticker price, and a very high rate of interest because of poor credit or no credit, and saddle themselves with a 550 dollar a month car note.

So if these young Colombian people will do something so stupid as that, why should it suprise anyone that they will not take any second hand baby clothes?

Colombiche says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:54:

A look inside a colombiana's wardrobe.... Look in Any colombiana's closet or jewellery box and you will find:


(AGES 14 - EARLY THIRTIES)
- Several pairs of high heeled shoes
- A pair of body tight white pants that you have to wear a thong with so that your calsones don't show through the fabric
-Tight jeans that accentuate the booty just enough to turn heads on the street
- At least one pair of platform sandals
- A pair of trendy sunglasses (usually designer) that are usually worn on the head, not the eyes!!!
- Lots of jewellery, specially gold
- Belts that are worn with the low cut jeans and are tied around the waist (some of these belts are trendy, made out of beads)
- Shirts with an escote (neck line) that is not vulgar, but it is lowcut enough to show a bit of skin
- At least one shirt that shows off the belly button...
- A pair of long chandelier earrings
- At least one black miniskirt

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:00:

GomezMan What you say about Colombians might be applicable in many cases, but I know a lot of colombians, (especially paisas) that are quite frugal and smart at managing their money.

Hell, I work as software developer in a stable company with quite a decent salary and I also have business on the side. Just a couple of years ago I bought my first pichirilo, a new Honda Civic. I didn't go out and buy a beamer or a Mercho.... I bought a Civic. Why did I buy it new?? Because I know squat about mechanics, so I need something that is reliable and won't leave me stranded (I don't even know what's under the hood of a car to tell you the truth).

I think you are generalizing just a wee bit too much. You are taking a group of colombianos you know and extrapolating those traits to the whole population.

Yes, we are very mindful of our appearance (read my joke about the colombiana's wardrobe), but I don't think we are generally that stupid.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:17:

Yea I am generalizing You don't know who I am and what kind of contact I have with one of the largest Colombian communities in the United States. I don't come into contact with a few Colombians,or even a few dozen,,,,my contact is with ...sorry to tell ya...hundreds. I represent them in all aspect of their lives with the exception of immigration matters.

I stand on my assertion. I know I have more contact with the day to day business dealings of Colombians then you do. By your own admission, your a computer expert, and I am an attorney who represents the Colombian Community in their day to day legal affairs. I am happy that your experience is the exception to what I have seen.....I hope your luck continues

Elbigie says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:21:

Generalizations I can't assure you that not all Colombians are so bloody superficial.

Elbigie says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:23:

Generalizations (Correction) I intended to say: "I can assure you that not all Colombians are so bloody superficial".

dwmte says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:32:

my wife was exactly as described above... wouldn't think of something 'used'...ha!, never. until......

it was just the passage of time, the visiting flea markets (sswap meets) and antique shops that brought about her change. however, the used clothes for baby...over her dead body. that never happened. and i have to admit, it's fine with me. babies deserve--when possible--the treats of new clothes/things (my opinion)

i was an oriental carpet dealer for 35 years and in that venue, the older, the better.

dw

caslug says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:01:

sounds like what GMAN is saying is.. Colombian immigrants that have not assimilated to US culture do those things MORE than mainstream US folks.

To Colombiche, do u buy second hand clothing? If you do, then you are for the most part assimilated. If not why? What is the reason? Here in the US we buy stuff "used" all the time. Heck we even buy our house "used". Is very well known fact, the best deal on a car, is a 1 or 2 yr old car, because the oringial took the depreciation hit for you AND 1 or 2 yr old car typically got all the kinks out and are just as reliable as newer one. Assuming you pick a model that is reliable in the first place.

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:12:

Caslug ... that is sort of what I am saying But what I am really saying is that when Colombian get here, the simply as a group have a hard time learing to live within their means.....It's sort of a ghetto mentality. When I was in law school, I used to work in the evictions unit for the Cook Couny Sherrif's office. I was shocked to seen the kind of clothes and expensive consumer electronic items, and expensive cars that people would buy, yet THEY COULD NOT PAY THEIR RENTS. These were relativey uneducated or poorly educated working in low paying jobs, and thought it was more important to where gold all over the place and look flashy with Nike Air's (at that time $150) than it was to pay rent. They bought Nike Air's, and I would go to Famous Footwear and buy a decent pair of sports shoes for $45.

Colombian people are similar upon arrival. 4 people live in a little apartment, yet they buy a new car or have to buy new jeans. Maybe it is because they get here after being not terribly well off in Colombia, and then they think that they made it BIG. So they feel they have to not only play the part, but show everyone else on top of it
Who knows.

juanalejo says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:18:

Cars It is kind of strange thinking of Colombians giving such an importance to cars, as one of the things that actually happens in Colombia is that we have one of the lowest sales per capita of cars any where in Latinamerica including compared to countries like Ecuador and El Salvador. And the main reason is that Colombians tend to buy one car and stick to it for a long long time, regardless if they have money or not. In my family's case, my mother bought a brand new car 24 years ago and she still wants to be buried with it, me and my brothers want her to buy a new one again just because we do not like a 75 year old woman driving around Bogota at night in a old car that can easily break down, but no, she still says that if the car works fine, it does not need to be changed. That seems to be the norm specially when Colombians settle down, when young I guess it is like everywhere, we love a new car. There is a saying in Colombia the best brand is new, and that has usually to do with being able to keep it a long time. I agree with buying almost new, but then again I like cars, and know how to shop.

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:19:

Also Caslug You are right.......if you can buy a used house, then why can't you buy used clothes..

As to the used car thing...you are very right. The worst NON investment in the world, is the purchase of a NEW car. Depreciation is so bad, there is no worst investment. And buy the way, I tell these Colombian not to buy a new car, but do they listen??? They get so caught up with being here, I truely think that THEY (Colombians) think that only poor Americans buy a new car (They have told me so) They feel that they have to be like regular Americans and buy a new car. They are shocked when I tell them that I buy cars that are 3 and 4 year old cars. They say, "But you are a lawyer" you can afford a new car. They are right, I can. Easily. But I am smart. I will stick with the used cars. Pardon me..."factory reconditioned"

Colombiche says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:28:

Gomezman ... Okay, you are an attorney. I am not, but I do a lot of work with the colombian community here in Toronto. I am not saying that there aren't colombians like the ones you describe, there are many. What I am saying is that there are many of us who are not like that and I just don't see how the colombian community can actually benefit from you coming to a colombian board frequented by North Americans and Europeans and saying things like "colombians have a ghetto mentality". Maybe some do, but it very much depends on the kind of upbringing and education they had back home. I don't consider myself, or many of the colombians I know here in Toronto to have a ghetto mentality. Actually, many of the colombians in this city are pretty educated, enterprenurial people. I don't see a lot of colombian youths here in toronto walking around with bandanas on their heads taking the ganga talk. Sorry. That is why I just can't agree with that statement about "ghetto mentality". Not in many cases.

Caslug... I did once but a couple of used vintage leather jackets back when grunge was in. I no longer do that. Now I just buy muy office attire at well.. office boutiques kind of places.
However, I know a lot of Canadians who do not buy second hand. Some of the guys I work with are very flashy... they love their designer clothes.

Yes, I agree that colombians on average tend to be more vain than most other cultures. What I can't agree with is that we are a ghetto culture.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:38:

I bought a new car... because I don't know anything about cars and I can't afford to have a car breaking down on me.

Do I regret it?? hell yeah. I regret buying a car, period.

Cars are money pits. Especially new cars. If you finance them, you pay through the nose. I tell everybody I know, don't buy a damn car if you don't need one. I repeat, don't buy a new car if you don't need one. Mind you here in this city we have like the most expensive auto insurance rates on earth, especially is you happen to drive a Honda. I wish I was one of those girls that knows how to change a tire and get her hands greasy and I would have bought and old banana boat shit box from the 80's.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:44:

Instead of buying a freaking new car and wasting like 30,000 grand after taxes (which are brutal here in Canada) and financing, plus monthly car insurance costs of up to $400 CDN, take your 30 grand + the money you will be spending on gas, maintenance and make a down payment on one or two investment properties.

Now, buying properties, yes you should buy new. Even better, buy them when they are not even built, when they are still on paper. That way, once the properties are actually built you would have made between 10 and 20k. When you buy used property, you are already paying a high price for it unless you get a) a great deal or b) a foreclosure.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:49:

Colombiche...please don't misstate me I said that mAny Colombians have a "Ghetto mentality" as to how they spend their money and handle their finanaces. That surely should be clear from reading my entire post. I did NOT say that they act like gang members or anything of that sort. Maybe as a Canadian you are not familiar with the how the term is used here. But that is why I used the word "mentality" in the context of explaining their spending habits.

This clarification should clear the air. Yet even if you don't like the term, the operative issue hear in this thread is exactly what the title of it is: And that is why is it that Colombians have to appear flashy?"
So I don't want to you to take one line that you read out of context and change the point of this discussion. I will not explain myself any
further in regards to the use of that term

kernow62 says on Jun 1, 2005, 20:40:

I am not going to argue the point as I do not have anything other than my own family and a few of their friends to go on.

Example 1. My wife, she was here for about a year before she purchased her car, a used Audi 5000.

Example 2. My sister-in-law was here about 8 months and purchased a used Toyota Tercel.

Example 3. My father-in-law, he was here about 2 years he purchased a used Nissan Sentra.

Example 4. My wife's cousin owns a used Ford Escort

Example 5. Sister-in-law's best friend a used Nissan Sentra.

These folks were all middle-class in Colombia.

I will concede that my wife did eventually pester me into purchasing a brand new car, a mistake I will not make again. I sold my Mercedes to buy a new Honda, dumb mistake.

Sister-in-law paid cash for a new Toyota Corolla, smart choice of car, smart way to pay, better would have been to buy a 1 year old model.

Father-in-law paid cash for a Toyota RAV 4, ditto above comment.

Just for the record, my wife got rid of the Audi and we bought a 1 year old Toyota Tercel, 10 years ago, we still have the car.

I don't see the "ghetto mentality" within my limited sample group.

I do see it with the Puerto Ricans in my area, they might not buy a brand new car, but they think nothing of putting $20,000 of parts in a $2000 car.

caslug says on Jun 1, 2005, 21:12:

i like vintage/second hand clothing NOT.. just because of the savings, truth is in ALL major cities there are tons of stores that sell brand name NEW clothes at hugh discount. Heck i got my NEW Dolce & Gabana pinstripe suite at Century 21 in NYC for $350 USD. Or a NEW Donna Karan Suit for $400 at Macy.

The MAIN reason i like second hand store is to get stuff that no one else is wearing because it's vintage. Of course you have to have an eye for it. One problem with Fashion now, is that Banana Repuplic and Gap have taken over. EVERYONE is wearing the SAME FREAKING thing!

BUT at vintage clothing store you find some gems from the past that unique. I love travelling to different countries(COL) and trying to find the unique local fashion i can bring back to the US and wear.

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 21:15:

They don't have ghetto mentality In the UK.......do they.

And congrads on the wise choices that were mad by all the Colombians in your locale. Maybe education/class has something to do with it. This seems to happen more often with the class of Colombians that manage to get a tourist visa, (how I don't know), overstay their visa, get a job in a restuarant, factory, hair salon, grocery store,,,,not earning a heck of a lot of money. Yet they find the money to buy a new car. In fact I am alway ammused by these people. I never could understand (I do now) how these people were able to buy new cars with no social security numbers, and no lawful residency. But they do. Ussually they get a cosigner. Then, when these illegals fall out favor
with the cosigner, that person puts the squeeze on the illegal, threatening to take the car, call immigration, and all kinds of other things.

Now, my aquaitances from Colombia that have the best job a person can get from Colombia (apart from doctors--but there are very few of them) Physical Therapists, they go out and buy used cars....nice used cars. So, you are right Kernow, maybe it's related to education or legal status. Crazy......if your illegal, you buy a new car. If you are legal and have a good job, you buy a used car. That makes a lot of sense. Maybe it's not ghetto mentality....maybe it is just poor logic.
What difference does it make what you call it. In the end, it still makes no sense

kernow62 says on Jun 1, 2005, 21:21:

In the UK... do they.

What?

By the way you would be proud of me today, I bought a nice new Chaps Ralph Lauren dress shirt from the Thrift Shop for $3.00. I also snagged a nice Ambercrombie & Fitch jersey for $3.00, it will keep me warm at Christmas in Bogotá.

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 21:28:

I am impresssed indeed Speaking of Christmas...(coming from this Jewish guy)...about a month ago, I bought a really fine cranberry red all cotton Starbucks sweatshirt. It has some joke on there about cones and coffee. It really is a cool shirt..Only $1.00

But I am really impressed with your "finds" today. I really do respect people who go to thrift shots and gets "deals" like that.

adrimm says on Jun 1, 2005, 21:42:

How's about A brand-spanking new scottish wool sweater Aprox $1.60 USD at a rummage sale.

Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 22:02:

Good for you ...Adrimm Maybe someone should start a thread about their most recent-- rummage, second hand,--- thrift---purchases?

daver says on Jun 1, 2005, 22:29:

Gomez,About illegals and Gomez,

About illegals and buying new cars:

When I worked in California and Kentucky, I met many illegals from many different places. Many of them bought new cars instead of old ones. One reason why they do this is it is actually easier for them to do so. To buy a good used car, you are looking at paying $7000 to $10,000. To buy a half decent used car, you are looking at $3000 to $5000. To buy a shit mobile, you still need a good grand, plus plenty of cash for repairs.

To get a new car, what do you need? A friendly cosigner and no money down. Sure, in the long run, it doesn’t make too much sense, but these people are in America, where if you don’t have a car, you are not a real person.

Remember also, there are millions upon millions upon millions (times 10) of other Americans (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever) who do the exact same thing. They fit a new car into their tight monthly budgets, skip the health care, have no savings, and drive down the interstate in their shiny new Honda.

People who are more conservative and logical with their money are the types of people who have a few grand around to buy a used car. I bought my first car with cash at a car auction (A 95 Sentra I bought in Kentucky in 2001 for $3000 USD). I had about $8000 CAD in my account at the time, because I am good with my money.

Also, I know people who buy used cars by taking money out of their line of credit (which is high because they are good with their money) and pay down the line of credit as quickly as possible to avoid interest.

While illegals have no problem getting car financing on a new car, they are not going to get a bank to give them a line of credit.

Oh sure, they can wait 8 months and save for their used car, but the public transportation system in the US is horrid, and these people have to get to work. Do they have a network of family in the US to lend them money for a car… not likely. And, after 8 months they have an 8 year old car. Not quite the American dream.

Also, even if they are spending a huge amount of their monthly income on a car, they have a new car, can pay the rent, and have money left over at the end of the month for extras like beer, cloths, and whatever. In Colombia, they would work just as hard, have no car, and less spending money at the end of the month. What is not logical for you and I may be quite logical for someone coming from the third world.

Colombiche – Yes. Shoes off when you come into peoples homes in Canada. Whether the season is Fall, Winter, Spring, or Patio you got to take them dirty shoes off. No one wants you tracking dirt into their house. Of course no one can afford a maid… $150 a day is pretty damn cheap for Toronto… that sounds like someone working under the table. If you offered to pay a maid in Canada what you would in Colombia, they’d laugh and get a minimum wage job that pays 8 times as much…. And, in Canada, and the US, no one would do such a degrading job unless you paid them 3 times the minimum (unless you find some unfortunate illegal who will do anything for $7 bucks an hour).

Dave

Rubiazo says on Jun 1, 2005, 22:40:

I know plenty of people In Toronto AND here in NYC who would be very glad to do that work for $50 a day in the local currency. In the US they are mostly illegals, in Canada they are sometimes Canadian born and bred with a Masters degree!!

My (ex) wife is half black, half PR. She also had a big problem with used clothing, which I personally don't get. People here also tend to think you need a new jacket every winter.

Ironically my wealthier friends on the Upper East Side have no problem dressing their kids on used clothes; I guess they'd rather spend the money on things like real estate like somebody suggested :))

daver says on Jun 1, 2005, 22:53:

I would like to see that guy in Toronto you are talking about. I think the minumum wage in Ontario is at about $7.50/hr. So, an eight hour day at Burger King would yield you a good $60.

"who would be very glad to do that work for $50 a day in the local currency"

Look, minimum wage in TO pays you more than this, and I don't think anyone with a min wage job in TO is very glad. Hell, you can make $50 a day in Toronto on wellfare.

Dave

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 2, 2005, 01:02:

I think people in Colombia would look down in second hand thing is because they hardly in good conditions, in Bogotá there was a place (LA PLAZA ESPANA) that used sell second hand clothes but only the very poor or "gamines used to go there. Here the UK I think clothes are cheap and every year there is a new fashion, winter fashion, summer, etc. so people get bored with the same clothes and get rid off of them nearly brand new so the shoes, when I used to live in Colombia I think I owned just a 3 or4 pair of shoes, here I think I own about 60 and some of them haven't seen the light of day yet, and I have so many clothes that I need a room as a wardrobe. I remember one time I went to Colombia and I want to get a high chair for my daughter so I decided to get a second hand one, I saw this one advertise in the newspaper, the owner was a rich guy that used to leave somewhere on the north of Bogotá, the chair was in a good condition and he was selling other stuff, but the prices of some of it, no way! A middle class person could afford it they rather buy new; a lamp was just 3.000.000 COP. I think the cheapest was the highchair, which was about 60.000COP. Another thing is advertise in the newspaper, is a bit expensive so people won't put small stuff like clothes or shoes I was lucky to get a highchair. And when people in Colombia buy clothes is to keep them until fades away so who wants to buy it? And they tend not to have too many clothes just the necesssary, no like here that we buy clothes as a hobby and just to used for a couple of month and that's it.

engage brain before opening mouth

Anggrek Hitam says on Jun 2, 2005, 05:19:

Why do black US Americans lik Thats no typical Colombian problem.

Why do black US Americans like to have new flashy things?
Why do Indians like to have new flashy things?
In China it can even be considered bad luck to start something new with old clothes on.

Often the social environment, the telenovelas, the movies , well, everything around us dictate that people have always the latest stuff.
Look at many Malays, often no money in the pocket but the latest Adidas or Puma shoes and then naturally a cigarrette in the hand which looks cool. I always tell them smoking isnt cool, but stupid to start smoking and pure weakness if they later cant give it up any more.

kernow62 says on Jun 2, 2005, 05:36:

Tinto I am young at heart. I still feel much the same as I did when I was 20. My wife says I act more like 10.

Rubiazo says on Jun 2, 2005, 06:49:

Daver: In TO many people cannot find work and have to work below minimum wage under the table. Some of them also scam Team Canada (welfare) too, this is true, some are too dumb to figure it out.
The temp agencies also can legally pay out day rates that work out to less than minimum wage, and in many instances you can get paid salaries or piece rates that work out to less, which happens a lot in the Chinese and Vietnamese communities etc.

Rubiazo says on Jun 2, 2005, 06:53:

I actually find the situation in Canada similar to places like Brazil. The government heavily regulates employment and imposes standards that are impossible for businesses to meet legally. So what ends up happening is you have a charmed circle of people who have 'real' jobs with dental plans and travel insurance and vacation pay and all the other great benefits, and then you have a ton of people who don't have a hope in hell of getting that kind of work and have no choice but to work 'off the books'.

Another thing that happens a lot is people get hired and then fired a day short of three months later, because after that period the employer is expected to pay massive payroll taxes. So they hire people and then make up some trumped up excuse to fire them the day before they would have to pay the piper.

miamimike says on Jun 2, 2005, 06:56:

Hey You Guys, to get the Best Deals(stuff) At The Thrifts.. you have to find out what days they restock with their new Arrivals and what time they do it.This is important because the best items really go fast. At the stores I go-one Consumate Thrift STore Shopper wised me up to this fact so I try and hit the stores especially on these days. One Colombian here in Miami from Bogota buys a lot of high end lightly used women's clothing and takes it to Bogota-the store owner told me he makes a fortune there-good business idea for someone.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

biff107@hotmail.com says on Jun 2, 2005, 08:12:

Do you think this could have anything to do with the Western glorification of image and status. Globalization has spread technology and the concept of wealth to places and people that can't necessarily afford to adapt their lifestyles accordingly. (Not that I believe they should). But this often happens all over the world and I see it constantly at home in London; People with little money sometimes use it on things that they believe will give the oppisite impression, also, accepting things like hand-me-downs can often be percieved as admitting to not being able to provide for your own children. Each individual has their own feelings about money and wealth and sometimes entire cultures. I would just ask your wife how she really, truly feels. If she genuinely doesen't want to have second hand clothes for her kid then that's her choice, but if she's only saying no for image and reputation then that's not her fault, obviously, but there's clearly room for negotiation.

utopiacowboy says on Jun 2, 2005, 17:09:

I laughed at your description of the Colombiana's typical wardrobe, Colombiche. My wife, at age 45, still dresses like that. And I have to say, damm, she looks good. Of course it drives my two daughters, ages 22 and 20, nuts. They don't think a woman her age should be dressing like that. Only young women should wear such tight jeans, they say.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

adrimm says on Jun 2, 2005, 17:54:

On to something Biff But I don't know that it has to do with globalisation and western culture. This has parallels to the coffee thing where someone who is unnable to afford large expensive items will take the high end of what they can afford. Blowing $5 on cup of coffee makes 'em feel wealthy. So I guess buying the $120 designer jeans and Luis Vuton bag is within reach, why not. Neither of these people has an income that will get them that high-end property so this is how they feel "wealthy".

This may explain the mentality in North America, but I think that the Colombia obsession with appearances and new shiny things is a different more culturally entrenched beast that is based on a judgemental class culture.

Kat1 has a point, in that quality used stuff doesn't seem around much... but I don't recall seeing any of my Colombian relatives wearing clothes that look "worn" per se. Clothes must be in somewhat decent conditions but I think that instead of donating them for sale, these get passed down to the "help".

Colombiche says on Jun 2, 2005, 19:46:

Naaa Utopia I think that if a woman can pull it off at the age of 45 then by all means show what you've got!! Man, if by the age of 45 I can still have a shapely figure and no cellulite you will see me wearing tight jeans. Hell, I will be wearing them until I am 60. Come to think of it, I want to be buried in my low cut tight jeans. Wearing chandelier earrings of course.

Ps: what's up with colombianas always wearing their sunglasses on top of their head instead of putting it on their eyes?? There is actually a joke in Colombia about "gafas de pelo".

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

carolain11 says on Jun 3, 2005, 09:05:

glasses on your head absolutely hate it, I used to pick on a friend cause she did it all the time under the blazing sun in bquilla at noon!!!
and by the way, I am colombiana, and the only items in my closet that are in colombiche's list are the chandelire earrings, supersized sunglasses (not designer, and I wear them all the time, but not on my head), chandelier earrings and a little jewellery (mostly plastic, no belts, no white supertight pants, but lots of vintage t's, no heels, colorful sneakers and boots... and I almost forgot, I saw Lauthra at atlantis mall about two weeks ago...

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 3, 2005, 09:58:

I am Colombian but I do HATE tight clothes.I am a fan of sunglasses I wear them not just put them on my head. I used to wear the chandeleir earrings, not anymore.

engage brain before opening mouth

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 3, 2005, 10:40:

the wardrobe of a young Colombiana or even a bit older is really impressive. The maid's daughter in my in-law's house spends more money in personal apparel than me...and she doesn't even own the bed in which she sleeps. I was always apalled looking at the amounts of lingerie, shoes and accessories she bought with her Christmas bonus every year, the amount of make-up she'd wear at video rental where she worked, the amount of jewelry she had in her jewelry box.

I had a real eye-opener when my daughter had her 15-year-old party in Colombia together with her cousin born in the same year. The cousin wore low-cut tops, looked at the camera with a lowered head and sensuous smile, had three different party gowns already made and waiting for her to choose the one she liked best. My daughter had designed her dress herself, we bought the material at a store downtown and a dressmaker made a lovely dress for her to wear; the shoes were custom-made to match the dress and in every picture she holds her head high and smiles brightly at the camera. Two girls, same age, partially same genes but with a different upbringing.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

N2Aquatix says on Jun 3, 2005, 11:32:

New Model Just a note on new cars. If you buy a new car in the first year of a model change (different style), then you are a complete sucker. I am a chemist at a car manufacturing facility and I can tell you for a fact that in the first year of a model change there are so many paint and electro-coat defects due to the style change and the resulting process changes, that if the paint doesn't fall off and the car doesn't rust to pieces, then you are a very lucky person. ;)

Jay

kernow62 says on Jun 3, 2005, 11:58:

Jay, just curious why a style change would affect the paint? Wouldn't the paint on a 2002 Accord for example and a 2003 Accord be the same, applied the same? What am I missing?

I understand about not buying forst model year when mechanical changes have been made, but I never gave the paint a second thought.

CasaSol says on Jun 3, 2005, 11:59:

Thrifty dressing I personally love thrift shopping and while we lived in the States my wife and I spent a lot of time (and little money) buying "used" items or even finding stuff on the streets in New York. You would be amazed at what people throw away. The best story is when we found some old Levis in the trash in the East Village. When my wife tried them on she found a $20 bill in the pocket. Here in Medellin there are only a few thrift shops that I have come across. If anyone knows of any please post the info. Having just returned from the States I brought a huge load of "used" designer clothing, top line stuff like Kenneth Cole, Hugo Boss, etc. My wife loved what I brought her and wears all of it. Her family on the other hand, well I have yet to see her mother wear the "like new" Adrienne Vittadini blouse I got her or anything else. I gave her sister a bunch of baby clothes, again "like new". She seemed happy when I gave them to her but I don´t know if she will ever use them. Maybe I should have just gone to Ross (Dress for Less) and bought a bunch of stuff there.

N2Aquatix says on Jun 3, 2005, 12:09:

Paint Usually a body style change will include changes to the steel chassis itself. This can cause the electro-coat to either not penetrate all of the recesses in the metal properly, or not drain properly. Both of these situations will cause the vehicle to corrode much more rapidly than normal. Also, most of the painting is done by robots, so all of the robots have to be reprogrammed to paint the new body style changes correctly. These programming changes take months to de-bug. In the meantime, it results in defects to the paint that have to be repaired. Any repair work done to the paint job usually results in defects like chipping and fading, which don't show up until months later.

Jay

kernow62 says on Jun 3, 2005, 12:18:

Thanks Jay, very interesting. I have owned two Mercedes, both first year models and never experienced paint problems. My Toyota is a first year car and still on original paint 10 years on. However our Honda has really crappy paint, very thin colour coat and not very hard, and not applied well. Are some cars more prone than others?

daver says on Jun 3, 2005, 12:26:

I bought a 95 Nissan Sentra in 2001. The 95 Sentra had a completely new body design from 94. In 2003 when I sold the car, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the paint....So 8 years and no defects... I haven't found one consumer review complaining about the paint.

I guess it depends on how well the engineers and scientist do their jobs....

Dave

N2Aquatix says on Jun 6, 2005, 07:03:

Honda Actually the plant I work at is Honda Manufacturing Of Alabama, so maybe it's just a Honda thing. I know that some of the other companies just scrap of the imperfects that come off the line in the new model year.

Jay

elmodefoque says on Jun 6, 2005, 11:39:

Saturday evening I did something I always avoided like the plague and that was to hang out with my wife and her just off the boat Colombian friends from Queens. We were all sitting in “hot cab� one of many popular watering holes for hip New Yorkers. They’ve got gigantic TVs all over the place tuned to the many games playing around the country. I was there trying my best to get drunk and watch the Yankee game but all those pretentious ass holes could talk above was freaking interest rates and home prices and their master in this and their master in that (like who gives a rats ass?) as the rest of the gringo drunks, also watching the game, talked about everything, except careers and money. Every once in a while I would stared at those Colombians and think, look at these third world insignificant, maid in every room schmucks, who the f--k cares about Allen Greenspan or their professions, specially when is the bottom of the 9th inning and the Yankees are tied 3-3. After the game the barranquillero d-j played reaggaton and luckily my daughter walks in, tall and very tanned, dressed very hot New York chic, swaying to the beat with all eyes focus on her. They soon realize that unlike Colombia, New Yorker are not impressed with someone’s master, bachelor degree or what ever, in many cases a guy working for sanitation, police and fire department make more money. I don’t have a freaking degree in anything (i do have a GED) maybe I should get a master in fishing or in the art of screwing while high on good colombian dope.
On a happy note, I’m back from my fishing trip in Miami and already thinking about going back next month.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

cali373 says on Jun 6, 2005, 11:48:

Perhaps its for the same reason United States residents have to drive the largest cars/trucks which they do not need.

Smile if you are a thinker!

cali373 says on Jun 6, 2005, 11:53:

"Colombians put a high premium on personal appearance (and personal hygiene)"

There is something wrong with that?

Smile if you are a thinker!

adrimm says on Jun 6, 2005, 12:12:

Can be When it starts being the only thing that a) one is judged by and b) when people go without just to have funds to "appear" a certain way. As for hygiene, well yes it is essential in any cultural setting but when hygiene means *men* having weekly manicures it starts to be a little-superficial rather than essential.

Just my $0.02

N2Aquatix says on Jun 6, 2005, 12:20:

I Agree I agree with you Cali373. It seems to be a matter of personal appearance as opposed to the appearance of the vehicle. I actually think that personal appearance and hygiene are much more important. I like my toys too, but it's mostly electronics, water toys, and hot guitars. My car is clean and runs great. I could care less if the rims are the size of an elephant's at ss.

Jay

daver says on Jun 6, 2005, 12:53:

"Colombians put a high premium on personal appearance (and personal hygiene)"

There is something wrong with that?

I am the one who posted the above... and no, I didn't say there was anything wrong with that. I wanted the original poster to know why a Colombian may not want used cloths for her baby.

Is there something wrong with that?

Dave

andresito360 says on Mar 24, 2007, 19:26:

The problem with most colombians that come into the U.S is that most of them come from having nothing to being able to afford expensive things. I was born and raised in colombia, I had it all but when I came here it was totally different. The first car I owned in this country was a beat up ford probe, in colombia I had a brand new audi s4, "came here to study". Most colombians that I met specially from my city came from poor barrios, and because they are in this Country they act like they came from a rich family.

For the guy that works with imigrants, just ask them where they came from, if they are from medellin they will tell you from el poblado, laureles, etc. But the truth is that mos of them came from either small towns, or poor neighborhoods.

famsearch says on Mar 24, 2007, 21:23:

all i know is... my wife has yet to turn her nose up at any item of clothing that has been given to her, from blouses to pants to coats. she was surprised by the generosity of people who didn't even know her.
dan

dan

erikapotatoes says on Mar 24, 2007, 23:15:

used clothes.. en colombia we dont like second hand stuff, is discusting to wear clothes that have been used by who knows who!
we don't have garage sales or yard sales in colombia,
i don't understand how american people can keep the same clothes for so many years, women in colombia usually change their wardroves once a year.
when i moved with my american husband, i had to do a huge cleaning, and trow out half of my husband stuff, so much useless crap they like to keep forever,


happy colombian in florida

utopiacowboy says on Mar 24, 2007, 23:20:

Who resurrected this frigging thread? For a while I thought I was having an acid flashback and that MaleOrange had returned. Must take my meds........

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

miamimike says on Mar 25, 2007, 00:05:

Erikapotatoes-Most of us Americans Who use Thrift Shop Clothing either wash it throughly or have it dry cleaned first. At least the Americans I know including myself so no Bugs or Cooties,,, Any idea who has tryed on those new Shoes before you at the Payless shoe store here in Miami? Just because an item is new doesn't mean it doesn't have someone else's Cooties(bugs)LOL I buy used Kitchen Appliances, fishing equipment, My Cars, Bicycles and God knows what else. I resell a lot of the stuff after I clean and recondition it! I know every Thrift/Goodwill/Consignment Store in Miami if its has an address,,,LOL

Many of those "Americans" who keep that used stuff for years are far from poor,,,next time watch what kind of Car they leave the thrift store parking lot in, chances are it will be a Mercedes, Thats why they can go out and Pay Cash for those new Houses,,,LOL,,,,Clothes(unless they classic or deco grade are simply one of the worst depreciating purchases a person can make,,,More Important,Clothes say Nothing about who you are as a person,,,


UTC-On Maleorange, you hit the nail on the Head; what a trip he was! LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

manINred says on Mar 25, 2007, 00:14:

most people who want to look good get classy things. colombians are no different.

miamimike says on Mar 25, 2007, 00:52:

manlNred, there are a Lot of people who want to look Good and actually do, when they walk into bankruptcy court,,,A person can look good in Classy Threads without breaking the Bank or maxing out the credit card. Here in Miami, I see many Latinas actually not priortizing in their shopping sprees then find themselves in the uneviable position of how to pay for their clothing purchases after the new clothing "feel" has done got up and left the room. I routinely buy "like new" Women and Men's Topcoats, Classic Wool Shirts(classic)raincoats in London Fog and Pendleton Brands at 90%-95% less then New Store Prices.They are(and have been) in style for years and will be in style for years to come. And,,, most people look good in these clothes(Col or american) and otherwise then their Drycleaner and Banker, no one else has a Clue as to whether its used or new,,,,But hey, I am happy as get out these Folks go out and buy all this New Designer clothing because if they didn't, there wouldn't be anything for us Thrift Store Folks to buy so I say to 'em, "Shop 'til ya drop"! I know in a short time the owners will tire of their purchases and discard them to Goodwill and then along I come and buy the same thing at 90% less,,, LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

larumberainglesa says on Mar 25, 2007, 01:18:

That's weird I was going to post something along the lines of materialism myself today but someone has done it for me. We have been in the UK for 5 years now. And my husband is still like a kid in a sweet shop. His latest purchase was a huge plasma TV (far too big for our flat). By the way does anyone else have this problem - he always has the TV on about 7 notches higher than I do and it really pisses me off. First thing I do is ask him to turn it down. He isn't deaf but I just think that coming from a noisy culture/area/house he has got used to having the volume high. Anyway, this year he also bought a BMW motorbike (not new thank god - 2 years old). As for clothes I dread going shopping with him. He doesn't go often but when he does he will always go for the most expensive clothes and shoes. He seems to have an instinct. He'll go into a shop and say 'I like that one' and when we look at the prices he has always chosen the most expensive. I do sy 'well, are you sure you want to spend so much on this?' but it's up to him. I can understand because he comes from a poor background and is now in a position to buy what he wants. Just this weekend as we were going out he says 'Are you going to wear those old 'tennis'??? Of course that would be showing him up. As for second hand clothes. I sometimes buy him things if I know he will like it and say 'look I got you a shirt' After I have washed it and he has tried it on I tell him it only cost £2 or whatever and he is OK about it. When we go to Colombia I hunt around for nearly new/new second hand stuff for the family but we also buy new stuff so that he feels better about what he is taking them. I can tell you that they are mosty grateful for what we send. At Christmas I gave my mother-in -law a bag (one I had hardly used) and she said it was old fashioned. I explained to her that actually that was the fashion here in the UK but she wasn't having it and I gave it to the nice lady who looked after the pool in the apartment block.Just last night there was a programme on TV ( on the in your face plasma screen)about Essex ( a county in the UK) women living in the south of Spain (they would give any Colombiana a run for their money in the 'glamour' stakes) and one was driving a brand new 4x4 Mercedes. 'Oh, I bet you'd like me to get you one of those'says he. 'I told him these things weren't important to me and he just got the hump. I too am and Essex girl but definitely not a 'glamour girl!'(much to husbands regret....)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2007, 01:37:

ohmygod my mother-in-law has come back "At Christmas I gave my mother-in -law a bag (one I had hardly used) and she said it was old fashioned. I explained to her that actually that was the fashion here in the UK but she wasn't having it and I gave it to the nice lady who looked after the pool in the apartment block." (rumbera)

and I thought that my mother-in-law (r.i.p) was bad...that's exactly the kind of stuff I had going on with her all the time, at every visit. I had to have an extra suitcase with me because she expected LOTS of stuff and none of it could be anything cheap or pre-owned (heavens forbid!). I used to have nightmeres about going to Colombia with NO presents or something CHEAP for my mother-in-law. She would then wrinkle her aristocratic nose and say yes, very nice dear and then stuff the present in the back of her closet and you never saw it again. Until it was somebody's birthday or Christmas or something...

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

larumberainglesa says on Mar 25, 2007, 02:52:

No presents?? Unthinkable. Well,most of the stuff I took this time came from charity shops but I was very careful to check for any sign of use (some even had the original price ticket in which was good. As for the kids clothes, they don't mind about them being my sons stuff. My husband alsways double checks everything for scuffs, fading or whatever after I buy it. Just to make sure no one will be offended. Still, there is always someone who will have it (neighbour, cousin etc). I also made the mistake a couple of times of showing her something I had bought for myself and she thought I was offering it to her so had to go out and secretly get a replacement for myself!

poco says on Mar 25, 2007, 03:29:

Reminds me of Lostinparadise i don't understand how american people can keep the same clothes for so many years

Another thing learned here. Used underware was available and the price is right. Makes a great gift for the discriminating women you're bound to meet.

Anyway, it would be impossible for the majority of people to wear their clothes "for many years". More than likely they get fat quick and need new larger sizes or they get divorced and lose weight to attract a sugar daddy.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2007, 09:28:

I hate lugging things around and have a supply of summer clothes on the farm in Finland that only gets renewed very, very slowly...I have a great old trunk where I store old, used but perfectly wearable out-of-fashion party gowns and dancing shoes together with my grandma's silken blouses and my mum's post-war party dresses. I've found some remarkably lovely old clothes there from the first half of last century and some day my grandchildren will be rummaging that trunk oohing and aahhing at my miniskirts and 15 cm. heels.

I'm planning to do the same thing in Colombia; keep a supply of summer slacks, shorts, sandals and tanktops stored in my house and just buy a few fashion items every time I go there. I feel no pleasure at leaving my hard-earned pennies at cheap supermarkets for ill-fitting clothes of dismal quality sown by some children in China at slavery-like conditions.

When I buy something nice I usually take the scissors and cut out the labels because I refuse to be a walking billboard for some unscrupulous clothes manufacturer.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush