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Who really owns the USA. now ?

Here’s some interesting news. The Chinese bought more U.S. debt in December than they sold ... the first time they’ve done so since before the credit crisis began last July.

Mainland China upped its stake in American debt during the month by nearly $20 billion, to $405 billion. Thus, surprisingly, China has brought U.S. Treasury holdings back to pre-credit crisis levels.

Also interesting, Brazil more than doubled its stake in U.S. debt last year, from $53 billion to $126 billion.

As we hasten to note nearly every time this data is released, the number of Treasury notes owned by foreign governments is breathtaking. Even though Japan has been a net seller for the last six months, Japan, China, the U.K. and Brazil own over $1.4 trillion in U.S. Treasuries themselves.

“Can democracy survive when its financial roots have been cut?�? asked the economist James Galbraith back in 2006. “The American citizenry has lost its pride of place as creditor of the American state. The proportion of U.S. debt owned directly by Americans has fallen to below 10%; in 1945 (when the debt was more than twice as large in relation to GDP as now), citizen-creditors just about held it all.�?

Combined, financial institutions and foreign nations now own over 70% of U.S. debt.

“The scale of public debt is not the issue,�? contends Galbraith, “but its ownership is. Can a country -- whether the United States or any other -- be truly democratic if it is in hock to banks and foreigners?�?

“We no longer ‘owe it to ourselves,’ as FDR used to say,�? opines our Byron King. “The banks and overseas creditors have hijacked the bond process. The citizens have little direct stake in the U.S. government, certainly not as bondholders. And more than half of all citizens pay no taxes at all. Over 50% of all taxes are paid by the wealthiest 3% of households; 90% of all taxes are paid by the wealthiest 10%.

“I guess the amounts of money were just too large for the citizenry to continue to buy bonds and keep a financial stake in the health of the government. So with no financial stake in their own government, it's all about ‘I get mine.’ From pork at the congressional level to ‘what benefits can I get?’ at the personal. Heck, everyone wants their check from the government. Hey, where's mine?

“We're doomed.�?

By Waterdawg on Feb 22, 2008, 11:51 in Friendly Talkzone.

scotty says on Feb 22, 2008, 13:57:

well the american citizen certainly doesnt own america any longer. america is for sale. maybe we should just auction the whole country off, pocket the money and move to Colombia or Brazil.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 22, 2008, 13:58:

ok my bit... 1 chilling (please do not included Bush)

engage brain before opening mouth

rocinante says on Feb 22, 2008, 14:03:

Wait for China to dump the whole lot!

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

scotty says on Feb 22, 2008, 14:14:

yup china may cash in their chips

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

durito says on Feb 22, 2008, 14:22:

While people are rightfully worried that China holds that many US treasuries. It is not in their interest to dump them all, the economic effects to them would be bad as well.

Nevertheless, that's only a piece of the issue. We now have sovereign wealth funds and other wealthy foreign investors that own large parts of American companies. Generally I don't have a big problem with this, it's a part of globalization. But, at some point, the US is going to have to start saving money and stop borrowing and spending. This may be happening now. If it is this economic downturn will likely last longer than people expect -- and honestly I hope it does. It's all part of a correction that needs to happen.

ujay says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:49:

be funny if Mexico ends up owning some,lol...

www.unionjackedfilms.com

LDW says on Feb 22, 2008, 17:09:

Saudis own the USA. They seem to have the president and much of the body politic on their payroll.

huskie says on Feb 23, 2008, 03:34:

Russian Mafia? Dunno
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

lpdiver says on Feb 24, 2008, 08:51:

Same old shit different country. Anyone remember all the chicken littles worried about the Japonese doing the same in the eighties? Yawn. Boring.

t

"cook some rice!"

cali373 says on Feb 24, 2008, 09:26:

This info on here is just toooo simplistic and not thought out very well.

Smile if you are a thinker!

fecherklyn says on Feb 24, 2008, 17:55:

Cali373,

"This info on here is just toooo simplistic and not thought out very well".

Why do you say this?

I would agree it is typical headline-searching journalism......but whilst the meal may be exaggerated, was it the fault of the ingredients?

I also follow the financial press...in detail. What is sure is that new markets have opened to take up govt. debt. Some of the investors motives for taking up this govt debt needs to be tested over time to verify the age-old motives have not changed.

Historically, if you needed to borrow money you went to "money -lenders" and paid "usary" according to your credit status. If you established a reputation of never making repayment, but were always searching "refinancing"...your credit rating suffered and eventually your borrowings wre secured by "less savoury" characters.

Why do you think all this has changed because the USA is the borrower?

poco says on Feb 24, 2008, 20:41:

fecherklyn Quote: Historically, if you needed to borrow money you went to "money -lenders" and paid "usary" according to your credit status. If you established a reputation of never making repayment, but were always searching "refinancing"...your credit rating suffered and eventually your borrowings wre secured by "less savoury" characters.

Why do you think all this has changed because the USA is the borrower?
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I’m not sure what your statement has to do with who owns the U.S. debt or debt financing. T-Bills are bought and sold all day. Anyway,,,,

1. The U.S. has always paid interest on the debt. A first class borrower.

2. The vast majority of institutions and individuals increase their debt as they become more successful. Same with governments.

3. The U.S. pays off the entire principal on their debt bonds everyday. The holders then need to reinvest their principal. The U.S. then issues new bonds or maybe not.

You should not have a problem determining the public debt/GDP percentages of Countries in the world. Look up these countries and let us know the numbers.

United States – Japan – Sweden and of course Colombia. Heck,, why not Switzerland.

Another item of interest might be the correlation between these ratios as a function of the health of a country, if any. Look it up and let us know,

I’m waiting to see something a little more than a jumble words and a comment on factual data, ie: Less simplistic.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Robert Jorge says on Feb 24, 2008, 20:42:

Good post Poco.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

poco says on Feb 24, 2008, 22:53:

Quote: That was the past. Now comes the future.

Kind of foreboding isn't it? Care to elaborate?

PS: Did you ever determine why 99 percent of the utility poles in Colombia are concrete?

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

poco says on Feb 29, 2008, 18:24:

Quote: You should not have a problem determining the public debt/GDP percentages of Countries in the world. Look up these countries and let us know the numbers.

United States – Japan – Sweden and of course Colombia. Heck,, why not Switzerland.
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Answers:

Japan = 184.4 %

Colombia = 53.9 %

Switzerland = 50.2 %

Sweden = 41.9 %

United States = 36.8 %

So, for those that believe the United States is spending your kids future,, gosh,, just think about the other countries. Guess the kids in Japan will not have a future,, right?

Who owns the public debt of the U.S and what percentage ? Funny, no one mentioned.

Just where is Japan spending all the money?

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

adrimm says on Feb 29, 2008, 20:25:

So what country in the world do you think actually owns everything within its borders?

I'll tell you one thing, it's certainly not a free-market country.

Welcome to reality.

tomtom33 says on Mar 1, 2008, 02:28:

Come on, Poco. Quit that shit. Some people want to see the US as the Roman Empire nearing the abyss. Don't confuse them with reality.

poco says on Mar 1, 2008, 18:35:

Quote: So what country in the world do you think actually owns everything within its borders?

I'll tell you one thing, it's certainly not a free-market country.

Welcome to reality.

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Hard to determine what percentage of U.S. corporations stock is owned by non-U.S. citizens vrs. how much stock in foreign corporations is owned by U.S. citizens. Should anyone have links to reliable data please post.

The U.S. treasury might have the data.

OK,, so,, will this help anyone determine who owns the U.S. ?

U.S. holds the majority. Japan No. 1 foreign holder.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov