Who is the smartest woman in Colombia, under age 35?

Crazy4Cali says on Jul 9, 2005, 23:21:

Well, I disagree.. You do hear about the good women, but since those discussions don't raise nearly the ruckas that the aforementioned categories do, it's easy for those mentions to go unnoticed.

The only sure-fire way to bring those types of discussions above the radar, so to speak, is to compare the good Colombian women to the bad North American Women. But those discussions quickly get derailed into name calling and other forms of bad behavior so they ultimately get deleted.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kernow62 says on Jul 10, 2005, 04:13:

She doesn't exist, the smartest women are ll over 35. ;-)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 04:35:

Good judgment is a result of experience,
And experience is a result of bad judgment...

Something like that?

Let me back up. I've spent a significant amount of time in Russia, and now I will be living in Colombia for two years.

Both countries are similar in many ways, with the exception that I think that the women in Russia have become more entrepreneurial and a significant majority (moreso than the 45% in the U.S.) have college degrees, even advanced degrees in many fields.

Of course, this is a residue of communism and the "free university system," although it's currently only free for the most elite students in Russia.

In Colombia, I met a number of women (and young men) who either went to technical schools or institutes or simply didn't have the money to go to school, period. Of course, both countries have a dilemma, there aren't very many good jobs available for graduates...for Colombia, even moreso an issue, as your place in the world and salary is more determined by the "quality" of the university you attended. In some ways, this reminded me of India's "caste" system although there certainly are not visible "untouchables" in Colombian society, there is an invisible equivalent on the periphery that tourists don't encounter at the Hotel Santa Clara in Cartagena.

Perhaps Colombia is more the type of country where wisdom and respect come with age, and young people are better off not "being seen" and staying more in the shadows until they are ready to emerge in leadership positions in society?

I was encouraged by my time in Cartagena, I worked with a program called Actuar Por Bolivar that has 1,000's of microloans at only 2% available to almost exclusively single women (mostly single mothers) to expand businesses that have been "successful" for at least 6 months...simple things like Mary Kay or selling cell phone minutes to more advanced enterprises. In fact, one of the things that pissed me off the most was hearing that their biggest competition was the 7% loans that are being handed out by the "foundation" of the owner of the Aguila beer company (and sponsor of the Colombian futbol team), apparently a very controversial figure in the country, as Aguila is one of the most profitable businesses around.

I'm not one of those men that have anything disparaging to say about American women or "western" women...they have a lot of traits that I admire as well. The one thing I do like about Colombia is that it still seems possible to raise a family with one person working and the other staying at home...this was the way that I was brought up, and it's certainly not a reality anymore in the U.S., not if you work as a teacher, social worker or non-profit program director. Of course, you can start all the debates about raising children in the U.S. versus Colombia and the trade-offs, best left for another discussion.

I guess the irony is that the type of woman I most admire is ambitious (for personal goals or self-actualization, not just to get rich or live in the U.S.) and educated and yet she would rather take those things and use them as a force for change and good...she's traditional, and yet contemporary at the same time, lol.

I do think that money matter less to the "good girls" in Colombia than it does the "good girls" in the U.S., where a man's paycheck is the most important factor in determining compatibility for 2/3rd's of women.

Well, enough on this for now, just interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Jul 10, 2005, 06:46:

The challenge seems to be how to manage being well educated and staying at home to raise the family.

It seems that if you have an education, there is pressure, either social or financial, for you to put it to work. For men, in the U.S. as in many other countries, this is assumed as a "given." The man gets his education and then spends the next 40 years of his life making it pay off. (Sometimes it only pays off for his heirs, unfortunately).

For a woman in the U.S. it's much more complicated and the pressure depends alot on the social circle you are in, or aspire to be in. There can be financial pressure to succeed due to cost of the lifestyle you want and there can be social pressure to succeed.

Where the biggest problems seem to occur is when an individual woman is getting mixed signals from inside herself as well as outside. She may want to succeed at a job because she has her education and at the same time want to succeed at raising her family. In the end, something has to give: The relationship, her job or her family. For as valiantly as they try, the can't do everything...at least not for long. Yet they are pressured into feeling ashamed for this.

I came to experience many of these pressures, up close and personal, being a single father. In my case, I changed careers from a very successful, but very demanding one to a less stressful, less lucrative one, however, I think my quality of life has gone up for me and my family, and I don't think I would have been able to take this path had I not spent time experiencing the Latin American lifestyle since, until that point, I didn't know it existed.

This solution, of course, flies in the face of all that is "holy" in the U.S. The reactions I get are all over the map, from "you're nuts to give up your high-paying job" to admiration, if not envy. Nevertheless, I can understand some of the pressure that American women get that tells them the need to do it all and, worse, do it all perfectly.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 07:50:

I've been lucky, in many respects, to grow up a spoiled only child and have my choice of any career, simply based on my interest and desire to do it and not financial utility.

Since graduate school, I've had the opportunity to do lots of "cool" things, although they weren't necessarily the most attractive careers to the women I was dating, in the sense that they "admired" what I was doing but preferred the lawyer/doctor/dentist/CEO types.

*Director of PR and Stadium Operations for the Pittsburgh Pirates
*Co-founded a non-profit foundation with an NFL football player
*AmeriCorps National Service Volunteer (two years)
*Program Director for a national non-profit organization working with 11-18 years old and volunteerism/service-learning
*Teaching Fellow, taught 3 years in an inner city school district

Having been to Colombia now, I'm really struggling with what to do (outside of my teaching assignment), as you just can't sit by and do nothing when you have the resources to help and actually make an impact...I'm leaning towards a shelter, both for displaced children and to protect women from domestic violence. Not sure the two go together, but we'll see.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Jul 10, 2005, 08:08:

Kernow62 "She doesn't exist, the smartest women are ll over 35"

WRONG !!!! Have all you people had a brain lapse. Shikira is the smartest, richest and most accomplished woman under 35 and I am sure there are many more that we not have the knowledge and/or exposure to ever meet.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 08:21:

Shakira is 28...well, one smart thing she did was give up modeling for a more lucrative and longer-lasting music career.

I think she's probably more business-savvy than Sofia Vergara, but I also get the sense Sofia is very compassionate and genuine. Of course, this could all be her "public persona" or facade and she could be a real __itch. I wouldn't think so, but you never know. I don't know much personally, but I have heard of "Peace + Hope Children for Colombia," the charitable organization she has affiliated herself with. Don't know anything about the 3-4 agencies that are part of that network and how much good they do (or don't do).

I know both have done lots of good with their charitable efforts in Barranquilla and other Colombian cities.

I also know Orlando Cabrera gave $200,000 to have the streets in the barrio in Cartagena where he grew up paved...and he's building a nice new condo/apartment building in Bocagrande for his family and perhaps half will be privately rented or sold.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 08:27:

Here's a very good website that documents Colombian accomplishments over the last five years or so.

http://www.theotherlookofcolombia.com/Colombia.html

0 funny, 0 helpful.

rona says on Jul 10, 2005, 09:34:

my fiancee . . . . . . that's why I'm marrying her

- 25 years old
- teaches at 2 schools
- working on Master's degree
- laid back, never flustered and a steely resolve

. . . the point is; just like her, there are many in Colombia. . .

caulfield2 - we both enjoy bookstores, cooking and social/political debates, so I can somewhat understand your view - except for sports -she LOVES baseball

. . . actually now that I think about it, a few of my female cousins fit those descriptions too - you can definitely find the "good woman" in Colombia - i think that you just have to be yourself without being pretentious -

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kernow62 says on Jul 10, 2005, 09:41:

My wife forced me to say that the most intelligent Colombian women are over 35.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 09:51:

Is she from Santa Marta, Cartagena or Barranquilla? Does she know anyone else (preferably female, LOL) that also likes beisbol???

Baseball is important to me, and my Russian wife never really took the time to understand it...she barely tolerated it. I don't need a sports fanatic, per se, simply someone who's willing to try and learn different things, whether it's sports, traveling, cooking, etc.

The girl I met from Cali didn't like sports either, and that's kind of hard for me to deal with. She likes working out and aerobics/spinning classes, BUT...I am going to have my work cut out for me finding a beisbol/basquetbol/futbol americano fan in the Eje Cafetero.

I did play varsity soccer in high school, and I coached the girls' soccer team at my high school, so maybe that's a start?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

rona says on Jul 10, 2005, 10:06:

caulfield2 its funny you mention that - she is from Cartagena - you know what they say, "birds of a feather flock together" - LOL . . . I'm sure she has plenty of female friends and/or cousins that are accomplished and like baseball . . .

. . . dude, you sound like an easy-going guy, you shouldn't have any problems finding the "good woman" in Colombia . . .

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 10:11:

Cartagena seems a little jaded to me, I liked Cali a little better from the "gringo target" perspective...there aren't as many tourists down there. Then again, Cartagena, it's easier to blend in, but not in the barrios, that's for sure (I'm thinking villa hermosa, san francisco, which is in the hills near the airport along the western side near the ocean).

I really like Cartagena as retirement option, as long as A/C is available, along with a satellite for ESPN and cable internet connection. Santa Marta is supposed to be nice too, but we chose to go to Las Islas del Rosario instead.

My girl from Cali is definitely a "good girl," we went to church the Sunday I was there and everyone in the city must have been having their communion primero that day.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 10, 2005, 11:59:

Kernow tell your wife that we already past the smart stage now we wiser.;-)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kernow62 says on Jul 10, 2005, 12:37:

I don't have to tell her, she tells me. ;-)

I just obey.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jul 10, 2005, 12:58:

I agree with Viewpoint. In fact I was thinking about Shakira too. What is interesting about her is that although she is only 28, she has been a sucess since she was about 20!!! I believe I remember reading that at age 22, she was one of the riches people in Colombia at that age. Tell me that is not an accomplishment!!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Jul 10, 2005, 13:23:

The smartest woman may not even be in a position of influence. Let's not forget that starter-level power jobs in Colombia are filled with nepotism at least as often as filled with someone with the smarts/earned merit.

Also many very smart Colombian women in wonderful positions within the country, leave. These women find opportunities in other places. I know of one smart young lady who is a human rights lawyer, and now works in the UK with an international firm.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 14:37:

You're not talking about Ms. Gottardo, are you?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sylvie says on Jul 10, 2005, 14:57:

hmm I could see the point of this post. South Americans are very quick to admire women that look beautiful yet don't often times acknowledge the smart ones. It is very unfortunate.

All the Colombian girls that came to study at my school are all very intelligent. My friend Inez from Cali is super bright. She's winning awards left and right for research she's done in Biochemistry with regards to cancerous cells. Very very very smart girl. I get the feeling she'll be very famous in medicine. Despite her obvious success in research as a student her mom still tells her to cut her hair and lose weight so she doesn't look like a peasant. :-(

I'm sure we will see her name in Time magazine in just a few years. Hopefully she wont forget us and share her wealth with us :-P

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Michael B says on Jul 10, 2005, 15:18:

How old is Ugly Betty? ?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sylvie says on Jul 10, 2005, 15:23:

huh? If you're refering to my friend Inez, she is 23 and she's very good looking. Kind of looks like a young demi moore but with darker skin.

Why do people assume that the smart ones are ugly?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jul 10, 2005, 15:29:

Sylvie, not so! I think you are being conclusory. Your friend Inez may be very smart. But except for you, who knows about her. Maybe you should check with ColombianoX. He is always making posts about famous Colombians who portray Colombia in a very positive light. Frankly, I can't remember the last time he posted a woman. Colx regularly pastes articles.

I don't think anyone here for a minute suggested that there were not any famous or intelligent Colombian women that were not pretty. But at least at the moment, I think it would be hard for you to come up with any famous women that are known for their intelligence and contributions to society. Certainly nobody even approaches the realm of Shakira. After all, she was very young when she becaame famouts for her artistic abilities in Colombia. She then took on the challenge, at the risk of failure I may add, to enter the states and take her genre to the states and the rest of the word when she decided to learn English. She succeded in that respect. Ok, she is beautiful. But, that is the nature of the work she is in. How many ugly female pop artists do you know??

My point is a clear one. Nobody said that a woman from Colombia has to be beautiful to make it in the world. Feel free to post info about intelligent Colombian women, no matter how they look.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 10, 2005, 16:30:

I actually taught this year with a young woman from the Sudan who is going to be one of the first ever in her country to receive a PhD...she was awarded one of the Gates Millenium Scholarships.

This woman seems to have it all going on for her...

Community outreach officer: Carolina Gottardo
Carolina worked on human rights issues in the Constitutional Court of Colombia as a lawyer and economist and then joined the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) in Colombia. Carolina graduated with an MSc in Development Management from the London School of Economics in 1999 and worked on development issues with CAFOD.

Carolina joined BIHR as the Community Outreach Officer in January 2003. She set up the Community outreach programme and works closely with voluntary sector organisations to provide information, awareness-raising and free training in human rights.

Apparently, she married an Australian/Italian guy living in London.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Jul 10, 2005, 17:48:

CAULFIELD - Carolina Gottardo Yes that is precisely who I mean. Mind you, not many people would pinpoint her as Colombian with her colouring. Small world, how do you know of her?

Now that I think of it, this post was tailor-made to her award this past December or January - I posted the announcement here - but of course she doesn't live in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kernow62 says on Jul 10, 2005, 21:02:

G5 the Colombian singer Andrea Echeverri isn't what I would call an attractive woman, but she sure can sing. Not only that her music is cutting edge; not to say Shakira's isn't but I didn't care much for her latest CD.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jul 10, 2005, 21:13:

I did not like her newest CD much either. And I really don't like her in the video with her body looking like she fell into a tar pit.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Jul 10, 2005, 22:15:

yeah, but... ...if you imagine it's chocolate sauce, that changes EVERYTHING!

Makes me want to get the whipped cream...

(uh oh, mi novia lee este sitio....)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 11, 2005, 01:42:

I'm with Mrs. Kernow on this one. It's hard to flaunt your intelligence in Colombia if you're under 35. It's not really expected of you. Just look pretty and shut up. No, tht was wrong, don't shut up but learn how to talk to men to build up their egos, flatter them, forgive them, explain their shortcomings in a good light, make all kinds of excuses for them. (At the same time carry on your Plan B: get an education because a girl's got to be prepared to take care of herself and her family when the guy walks out). So, of course there are lots and lots of bright young women in Colombia, they are just not using their intelligence as their primary asset until it becomes mandatory a little later in life.

Comparisons with Shakira, Sofia Vergara etc. models and artist are extremely lame: they may be smart, have a lot of business sense or a good manager but don't really represent the young Colombian woman in general.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 11, 2005, 04:43:

Well, then let me ask this question. What is the best university or college in Colombia? The one where if you're lucky enough to attend, you MIGHT be able to guarantee yourself a starting salary of $800-1,400 (USD) per month because of its reputation, in other words, the equivalent in your country of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford or Cal Tech.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Jul 11, 2005, 08:15:

Guessing Javierana, Uniandes? Or are these just upper-middleclass schools?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jul 11, 2005, 11:29:

Catherina Daza Manchola (Miss Colombia 2004)

What is your career ambition and what are you doing or plan to do to accomplish that goal?
First, to finish my career as an economist, learn English and take a postgraduate course abroad in Finance. Then, return to Colombia to get some experience and become the manager of the Republic Bank. After that I would like to work in the New York Stock Exchange.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jul 11, 2005, 12:44:

You are correct GringoDeLouisian If a 22 year old woman became one of the riches Cocaine dealers in Colombia, I would absolutely without reservation associate that with intelligence. The fact that any person, especially a woman could make to the higher levels of the Cocaine dealers, what else would you attribute such an accomplishment to? Luck? This would be especially so given the fact that Colombia does not have much of a history of allowing Women into the higher eshelons of the mafia. A woman would have to have some degree of intelligence and social skills to pull that off.

I think the mistake you are making GDL, is that you are associating intelligence with some activity that is socially redeeming. There are many criminals, that have engaged, and continue to engage in illegal activity just because they are intelligent. I am not defending it. All I am saying is that it is the fact that they are intelligent, that they are able to engage in the unlawful activity, and more importantly, get away with it. I have done quite a bit of criminal work in my time as an attorney, and I can tell you that I have met some very bright criminals. Sooner or later, they do get caught, but that is not because they were not intelligent. It is simply by the law of averages, if you do anything unlawful long enough, someone is going to "blow the whistle" on you and you will be caught. Period.

In the case of Shakira, while I don't think that intelligence was the only thing she had going for her that enabled her to be the success that she is. She comes from a well to do family and surely that helped her early on. But, call it intelligent, artistic, skillfull, or whatever, it is not easy to be that kind of a success in Colombia or anywhere else in the world. There has to be something going on in that brain of hers to accomplish what she has.

La Musica.com puts it this way:

"The fact that she writes her own music put her in a class that's a cut above her peers. Her sound is unique, fusing elements of her Lebanese and Colombian ancestry with classic rock and pop, and reflecting her very personal, intelligent view of the world. Her beauty and sensuality is already legendary, and audiences cheer with the slightest move of her hips in concert."

I think that pretty much substantiates my claim that she is intelligent. They even agree with me -- literally

0 funny, 0 helpful.