What would it take?

gorgonabob says on Feb 25, 2006, 07:27:

the best thing would be to legalize drugs around the world.. govt's would be in charge of there distribution... gangs around the world would immediately lose there main source of income.. a lot of colombia's problems would dissapear overnight...

certainly an improving economy, colombia's would help also

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Monpirri says on Feb 25, 2006, 08:19:

Leonardo21 A very interesting question!
There are three important ways how to make Colombia prosperous and free of violence:

First, and the most important, Colombia must follow the steps of a world leader. It must follow the example of how USA built her nation under God. A nation founded on the principles of trusting in God. Colombia must build or rebuild the country.
Second, Colombian government must be willing to help in creating 150% or more employment opportunities via the corporate world.
Third, as you have pointed out, Colombia must promote more in the small business sector, at least 300%!!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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juancegomez says on Feb 25, 2006, 09:34:

........ It's a complex subject, certainly.

I'd say that the most important thing are:

a)To negotiate an end to the conflict.

b)To promote a serious discussion of the drug trade and its flawed prohibition in the world arena (which translates to the UN, at least at first, but should go much further than that).

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vladimiro says on Feb 25, 2006, 14:22:

Large-scale investments in the country-side I think large industrial investments in areas where the FARC are influencial would be helpful. For example, the Pastrana administration signed an aggreement allowing the largest meat processing facility in South America to be built in FARC controlled terrority. All the capital and engineering for the project was to be provided by Iran. As part of the project the Iranians were going to build an airport for transporting the halal beef directly from Colombia to the MidEast. But Colombia's interests were superceded by America's, and the US was able to force Pastrana to cancel the project.

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leonardo21 says on Feb 25, 2006, 22:28:

interesting...and on that note... Thank you all for your input. AS far as the legalization of drugs I believe, my opinion -of course-, that it would be easier to cut the demand for the product than the actual legalization of the product. I do believe that the socio-economical bipolarization of our countries can only lead to an eventual collapse of the given "ruling" system so that a more "popular" approach finds its way. Many people have yet to realize that the balance of power, in a way, lies with the populus or the poor/working sector. Any reflections on these ideas?

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cali373 says on Mar 10, 2006, 11:02:

vladimiro, is that true about Pastrana and Iran? I hope to find more info on that. I would agree that programs to strengthen the middle class are very much needed. Definitely promote small business more than Corporations. Allow free trade but protect agriculture against countries who offer subsidies to their farmers. That practice is contradictory to free trade. Aggressively enter into free trade agreements with countries OTHER than the U.S. instead of solely relying on the U.S. because it gives them too much political power in Colombia. Depend less and less on the World Bank and IMF as they have stings that devastate poor countries. Privatize state controlled entities (but regulating utilities at the local level) and using the proceeds toward law enforcement at the local level (not just against FARC or AUC). CUT THE DAMN RED TAPE to allow small businesses to operate but at the same time allow protection of decent working conditions. INCREASE investment of education. Build infrastructure that greatly increases transit from the interior to the coastal areas. The countries that have faired the best are the ones win which the government has invested in educating their people. I love GOD, but religion HAS NOT PLACE IN POLITICS. No matter what religious fundamentalist say, keep it your homes with your family, friends not the public. Educate the population on safe sex in order to control the population. Colombia has TOO many people. In contrast Venezuela 22 million, Chile 15 million, Argentina 20 million. Solving the Drug issue and the guerilla will not solve Colombia’s economic problem because way before drugs, their was Violence and drastic exploitation. Only education on drugs not prohibition will at least help control the drug issue. And lastly somehow convince the Colombian and U.S. Oligarch that ALL of this is the best way to build a powerful Colombia because they are the ones standing in the way of a properous Colombia.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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protocol13 says on Mar 12, 2006, 23:03:

Cali373 Argentina's population is about 38 million (not 20 million), Venezuela's 26 million and Chile's closer to 16 million. Venezuela's population growth rate is about the same as Colombia 1.5%, Chile's is 1.2% and Argentina's 1%. Data was taking from the EB yearbook.

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cali373 says on Mar 14, 2006, 12:52:

protocol13, thanks for the correction on Argentina. Argentina also has a GDP $182 billion
GDP - per capita: $13,600 (2005 est.)

Colombia: GDP $100.9 billion
GDP - per capita: $7,100 (2005 est.) By the way it is a well known business practise that businesses in general like having to choose from a pool of high unemployment because they can lower wages. So it will not benefit any poor country to be over populated, no matter if the growth rate is the same as the next country. I am always wondering why 15-25 year old girls un-married are having children when they or their boyfriends cannot even support themselves.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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Blue says on Mar 15, 2006, 10:59:

A good place to start would be making things much better for those reporting on the violence, corruption, human rights violations, etc. Far too many journalists have to self-censor in order to avoid threats, intimidation and even death. I believe this is particularly true in those regions where violence is rampant. Citizens have to be fully aware of those people who are engaged in these destructive activities and this means naming them and singling them out without reservation. So much of this occurs because they operate with impunity. Impunity is deeply rooted in all institutions but is particularly harmful when the judiciary won’t properly punish those for their misdeeds. And the cycle goes on and on. Liberate the press and widespread liberation will follow.

Blue

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juancegomez says on Mar 15, 2006, 18:57:

.... Blue:

"A good place to start would be making things much better for those reporting on the violence, corruption, human rights violations, etc."

Not exactly an easy thing to accomplish.

"Far too many journalists have to self-censor in order to avoid threats, intimidation and even death."

True, but that is inevitable, given that the FARC, the ELN, the paramilitaries, common criminals, druglords and corrupt officials are all highly intolerant of people that publish things that they do not like. What else did you expect?

Nevertheless, despite the danger, quite a lot of stuff still gets reported and the risks are probably at their lowest (though still high) level in years.

"I believe this is particularly true in those regions where violence is rampant."

Logically.

"Citizens have to be fully aware of those people who are engaged in these destructive activities and this means naming them and singling them out without reservation."

Aha.

"So much of this occurs because they operate with impunity. Impunity is deeply rooted in all institutions but is particularly harmful when the judiciary won’t properly punish those for their misdeeds. And the cycle goes on and on."

The thing is, it's not so simple. Impunity is the result, not the source of the problem. As deeply rooted in Colombian society as it may be, it's not just a matter of the institutions, but of the people's behavior and mentality both outside and inside the state framework.

"Liberate the press and widespread liberation will follow."

It's a nice sounding phrase, but not a very useful one.

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Blue says on Mar 16, 2006, 12:26:

juancegomez I doubt things are as complex as you make them out to be. This isn’t mathematical physics. lol Those who wring their hands and constantly harp on things being so complex are the status quo’s best friend. I would suggest you read a few books on the French Revolution and American Revolution. This will give you some ideas on what kinds of things facilitated democratization in these countries. Maybe the “will” to move Colombia beyond its current status is absent in the Colombian people. Or maybe conditions aren’t ripe for anything more.

Blue

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juancegomez says on Mar 16, 2006, 19:34:

If you want a response, Blue...here it is: "I doubt things are as complex as you make them out to be."

Trust me, I realized as much.

"This isn’t mathematical physics. lol"

Well, who says that mathematics has to be directly involved for things to be complex? Human society is complex, social sciences are complex, warfare is complex, real life is complex.

Even freaking Marx knew that. It's just that too many people forget to read the "fine print" when it comes to Marx, reducing his work to the vague "results" and the classical interpretations made by others, giving it all a dogmatic and undynamic quality absent in much of it.

"Those who wring their hands and constantly harp on things being so complex are the status quo’s best friend."

As opposed to those that simplify things so much, to the point that their efforts may just end up helping the very status quo that they so loathe...or contribute to making things worse, instead of actually trying to study the little things, in order to find out what other, better alternatives exist.

Sorry, but I don't think that "any alternative is a better alternative."

"I would suggest you read a few books on the French Revolution and American Revolution. "

I've read a few already.

"This will give you some ideas on what kinds of things facilitated democratization in these countries."

Except, of course, for the fact that those "kinds of things" are not automatically and universally applicable in all situations, let alone when read anachronistically and out of context. History isn't a static repetion of the same general cycles.

A lot of democratization has ocurred under very different conditions, for starters, and a lot of revolutions have led to UN-democratization or even to later counter-revolutions.

All revolutions are not created equal (some are better than others...heck, some revolutionaries are better than others. The FARC, for example, are pretty bad as far as revolutionaries go, after 40 freaking years you'd think they would realize that another strategy would be more effective), and revolution isn't always a progressive thing, since it isn't even a inevitable necessity either. So the point is moot.

"Maybe the “will” to move Colombia beyond its current status is absent in the Colombian people. Or maybe conditions aren’t ripe for anything more."

Maybe, but I sure don't pretend to have access to the same kind of crystal ball as you apparently do, for starters.

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juancegomez says on Mar 16, 2006, 19:47:

Tinto:

"Basic law enforcement is necessary before the press can fully do its job."

And basic law enforcement is a hard thing to get right when violence remains at high levels, among other things, let alone when there's an insufficient number of police and judges per square mile to begin with, even in the largest cities.

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