What will be the solution to this conflict?

bamacellist says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:04:

The border incident and the support for the Farc offered by Venezuela and by Ecuador are three separate issues and will have to be dealt with that way. Ecuador has filed its protest with the OAS and Colombia undoubtedly will be reprimanded and have to apologize but it seems not too likely there will be any sanctions imposed. Colombia has filed a complaint about Chavez with the International Criminal Court, which puzzles me a bit, but he can also make claims at the OAS and the UN regarding support for terrorists by both Ecuador and Venezuela if he chooses. That would bring the issue of the Farc's status to a head and my own suspicion is that Chavez wouldn't like the result. Beyond that, it's doubtful again that any serious sanctions would be imposed. My two cents...

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

huskie says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:16:

This were comments I made earlier in two other threads that were posted:

I hope Colombia declares war on this A-hole, and we shall see who will be running fast. Venezuela, does not have the logistics, capabitily, and much less an Army, what they do have is a buch of people trying to survive, and not starve to death as it seems they are having a shortage of food.

Uribes' cup is full now, eventhough, I am against any war, I would applaud him if he does decide to go to war and finish once and for all, oh for all the atrocities FARC and others have done to damage no only the image of Colombia but ruined the lives of so many. He has tried to mediate with this people ever since he started his Presidency, he has had a lot of opposition, including the majority of Colombians who are now realizing what the whole truth is about, all those people are now rallying behind him when it might just be a little too late.
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

durito says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:18:

War would be a disaster for the Colombian people. Everyone loses, regardless of who scores the "military" victory. It would weaken the military and prolong the internal war.

Simon says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:24:

Let's kick some communist ass!!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

scotty says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:30:

somebody needs to smackdown Chavez and I think Uribe is just the man that can do it. Viva Colombia!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

Man Tequila says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:30:

Espero que Chavez se dé el ancho...

War would not be helpful for any of the countries. Chavez seems like he is looking to score political points by recalling Gran Colombia, looking like a regional dictator by interfering in other's affairs and talking too much. But a war would just further damage his credibility since he would be very unlikely to win it.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

aNdReSk says on Mar 4, 2008, 15:34:

What I think is that chavez wants to get the attention of the Americans, since USA is Allied with Colombia and that guy chavez isnt the best friend of bush if u know what i mean :O

hehe at least we are (colombia) in the good side :P

SiV says on Mar 4, 2008, 16:08:

There really are some morons on this site. I propose introducing some kind of IQ test before giving out accounts and letting people comment. . . I'm almost serious!

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

Waterdawg says on Mar 4, 2008, 16:35:

As much as I wouldn't seeing Chavez and his band of Leftist slip on a banana peel ; War is not what you want to see .. Not sure how many on this Board have served during a war , Conflict or what ever the trendy term for death and destruction.

Alma del Norte says on Mar 4, 2008, 17:30:

"There really are some morons on this site. I propose introducing some kind of IQ test before giving out accounts and letting people comment. . . I'm almost serious!

SiV"

Spot on. I am getting sick and tired of wading through all this shite..."I hope Colombia declares war,.. but...I am against war". I am going to delete this site from my favourites and leave it a few days until all this blows over. Rhetoric, jingoism, supposition, blind faith in The Press - f*^*ing depressing!! No wonder the World is in such a mess.

La vida es una rutina

podborski says on Mar 4, 2008, 17:31:

there isn't really any 'solution' kat. But things will cool down and be back to normal pretty soon (3 to 6 months??)

But it is kind of despairing to realize that Ecuador and Venezuela will openly harbour these terrorists, and that it will perhaps be tougher for Colombia to go after them. And most if not all of the rest of LA will support the FARC and Chavez.

I don't see any of that changing anytime soon.

Guess the only good news is FARC is badly hurt, plus there is no doubt now about Chavez's support for them. That will come to haunt him eventually. I am not religious but I believe in karma...

.

fecherklyn says on Mar 4, 2008, 17:41:

Hopefully it will be as it should be:

Colombia (Goldilocks) will be wrapped on the knuckles for violating a neighbouring countries sovereignity and the worldwide foreign affairs offices will be satisfied their platitudes have been heard.

The Venezuelan and Equadorian bears will huff and puff but Goldilocks will not invite them in by overly antagonising them. Goldilock's fairy godmother from North of the Border has also warned the bears she is still around.

The other bears in the vicinity will wait to see what way the wind is blowing.

Whilst Goldilocks and the Venezuelan and Equatorian bears exchange insults, several threats to bring each other to court are menaced. None of these threats go very far as nobody has any watertight proof to offer but in the meantime everybody else remains on the sidelines.

A "Cold-War" ensues during which both bears and Goldilocks suffer differing fates. Goldilocks looses faith in her playmates and feels somewhat unhappy in solitary confinement, but some hidden friends confidentially let her know they still have faith in her.

The Equatorian bear continues to huff and puff a little but in reality he is awaiting orders from his bigger brother, the Venezuelan bear.....who always brings him his dinner.

The Venezuela bear is a little bemused. He has brought out all his toys but few of his friends really want to play. He cannot understand it. Up until know he was always the most popular bear....at least since he brought in the midday snacks and "mooned" the forest ranger.

Spring became apparent when the Venezuela bear's family started to get hungry. He had so concentrated on Goldilocks and the forest ranger that he had forgotten his family. No nuts (most of which Goldilocks had previously supplied) had been harvested for the Cold-War winter and his children were not only ravenous....they were furious. In short, The Venezuelan bear was outcast by his own family who sought the security of other provisions.

The Equatorian bear, and many others from the vicinity were in a quandry. What to believe? They had thought mighty Venezuelan bear to be their only brother but, in his demise, they realised they had many other breatheren from within the animal kingdom. The problem was which to choose.

As to Goldilocks, she retired gently back into her ways. Her sturdy walls had withstood the huffs and puffs of Venezuelan bear but there were still other wild animals on her doorstep. Oh she dreamed, how can I get rid of all these problems, there is always someone who wants to take my place with a better idea on how to bring food to the table.

Story to be continued.

SiV says on Mar 4, 2008, 17:53:

I really think some distinction should be made between "harbouring" terrorists, and having terrorist groups in national territory: they are not the same thing. I imagine the US and UK have Al Qaida terrorists within their borders, but they are most certainly not habouring them. The first implies knowingly providing sanctuary, the second could simply mean these groups are there due to unpatrolled borders, without knowledge, or more to the point, approval of the sovereign state.

I think at the moment, we cannot say with any security that Ecuador, and maybe to a lesser degree Venezuela, are supporting or harbouring terrorists. The situation is obviously not as clear-cut as my example, but remember, the Farc were found only 1.5km inside a largely unmanned frontier in the Amazon jungle. It's hardly tantamount to giving them official protection. It may well be possible that they do/are, but I think we should listen to the hard evidence first, not just the manipulated medias of all sides and possibly twisted governmental claims.

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

podborski says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:01:

so let's make your analogy more appropriate to fit the facts.

Some heavily armed Al Qaida terrorists are chased across the canadian border by US miltary and killed.

What's the Canadian response? Condemn the US? Ridiculous. It'd be thanks for getting rid of the scum.

To make it even more accurate, then Chavez would threaten the US with war on behalf of Canada.

durito says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:08:

"I think at the moment, we cannot say with any security that Ecuador, and maybe to a lesser degree Venezuela, are supporting or harbouring terrorists."


Regardless of the accuracy of the information on Reyes' computer, I think it's quite safe to say that Venezuela allows the FARC to operate in their territory.

billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:14:

Alma, don't let the door hit you on the a$$ when you leave.

DodgerDogs says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:19:

bb, Tranquillo !!!!
Just cause Moss re-signed and did not take the cowboys offer.
Only kidding, I talked to your buddy last night on the phone.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:22:

DD, you got that right though,ajaja. how's he doing?

DodgerDogs says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:25:

bb, He just moved from LQTO to a cheaper barrio, and is still in love with my Chicas prima.

Here is some Venezuela contraban from last week.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

SiV says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:30:

Agreed to a quite a large extent, Pod. The reactions by Ecuador and Venezuela are quite bizarre, but remember, they are not the US or Canada, and it still doesn't make them guilty of habouring terrorists.

Durito, I imagine you're right, too (though I hope not), but at the moment it is also unverified.

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:39:

DD, did they decommission that booze from your house?

robi666 says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:43:

Alma del Norte says on Tuesday March 4th, 2008 17:30:
"Spot on. I am getting sick and tired of wading through all this shite..."I hope Colombia declares war,"

Hey, that's why I made up a fake war yesterday... for the bold people.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

manINred says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:44:

"war" is a strong word to use at the moment. "hostilities" is a good one.

DodgerDogs says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:44:

BB,
I am not a Old Parr fan. If they came to my house the will only see 1 1/4 liters of Coca Cola.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:46:

Is that some chivas i see to the left? Now that would be a shame.

DodgerDogs says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:48:

That be Chiva Regal ,Ole Parr ,Johnny Walker and Mr Bucanan and lots of Nestle
Leche polvo and Mayo and cooking oil. The usual Mercado Shopping spree in Maicao then they resale it and make 40 % to 60 % the same day.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

robi666 says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:48:

SiV says on Tuesday March 4th, 2008 17:53:
"I really think some distinction should be made between "harbouring" terrorists, and having terrorist groups in national territory: they are not the same thing. I imagine the US and UK have Al Qaida terrorists within their borders, but they are most certainly not habouring them. The first implies knowingly providing sanctuary, the second could simply mean these groups are there due to unpatrolled borders, without knowledge, or more to the point, approval of the sovereign state."

SiV, the documents clearly show that Correa knew it, was offering to remove unfriendly police officers and asking FARC to make a sort of "course" for the people of the border.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 18:55:

You can doubt that the documents are genuine, that is reasonable. If you assume they are genuine (and that will be proven), then you would have to have serious comprehension problems if you still had doubts about the FARC "just" happening to be hiding in the Ecuadorean and venezuelan jungle, and those rats knowing they are there and providing them with aid and comfort.

scotty says on Mar 4, 2008, 21:24:

billyb you crack me up man! that was a great on "Alma dont let the door hit you on the ass on the way out"
I agree...bye bye Alma.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

Man Tequila says on Mar 4, 2008, 21:30:

I've met Alma. Nice guy. And all this talk about war can wear thin.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 00:59:

I don't think war will be the solutions and I hope we don't get to that extremes.

engage brain before opening mouth

huskie says on Mar 5, 2008, 04:05:

" What goes around comes around"
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

SiV says on Mar 5, 2008, 05:07:

robi666, here's a quote I found from the British broadsheet, The Independent:

"Regional analysts cast doubt on the laptop claims, pointing out that records of financial deals were unlikely to be kept at a remote jungle base of operations. "The far-fetched allegations of laptops are almost comical," said Larry Birns, of the Washington-based think-tank, the Council on Hemispheric Affairs. "What would this stuff be doing in the jungle?"

Colombia also accused the rebels of trying to make a radioactive "dirty bomb" but the evidence it shared with reporters failed to support that allegation, indicating instead that the rebels were trying to buy uranium to resell at a profit."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/colombia-demands-chav...

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with Mr. Burns. Reyes was the No. 2, so he could be carrying this data on his laptop, in my opinion. Still, I'm quite sceptical of Uribe's claims. It's all too convenient. I'm surprised they didn't find evidence for new plans to exterminate the Jews, collaborate with Al Qaida, and just to wrap everything up nicely, evidence of Saddam's WMDs in Iraq!

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

bamacellist says on Mar 5, 2008, 05:21:

It would amaze me if Chavez were to actually order his military to attack Colombia. Of course, Chavez has an unparalleled ability to amaze... No, really, Chavez, even if he really desires to attack Colombia, must have doubts about his army's willingness to obey this order under these circumstances. It's more probable they'd put him on a plane bound for Cuba if he gave such an order. It appears Uribe also doesn't believe Chavez has any real intention to attack. Really, Chavez is just using this an an oppportunity to stand up to the Evil Empire, to the admiring cheers of his claque.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

bamacellist says on Mar 5, 2008, 05:30:

"What would this stuff be doing in the jungle?" Is such an ignorant question it's hard to believe it's not merely rhetorical, but apparently it's meant to raise doubt. The COHA is hardly a neutral think tank. It is a group dedicated to promoting left-wing policy. They are big supporters of Chavez and his agenda.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 05:55:

"I've met Alma. Nice guy. And all this talk about war can wear thin"

Nobody is forcing anybody to read these posts, if they are too much for them, they don't have to open them, they can just ignore, or leave as he threatene (BTW, what makes these people have to announce that they are leavign jsut do it), but nobody wants to hear them whine either.

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:01:

Bama, the FARC apologists are throwing everything they can, as far as trying to sow doubt on the documents, to see what sticks. A couple of days ago it was the silly argument about the print quality. Hmm, lets see, Reyes was hiding in the jungle, but wait, what was he doing carrying his laptop with him? Clear sign of fraud, everybody knows nobody carries their laptops with them. jajaja, the water carriers for the FARC will need to do a lot better than that if they don't want to look so ridicuolus.

chester says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:07:

breaking news - Nicaruagan President Ortega has offered the services of a 'crack' battalion of Nicas.

He is proposing the battalion of volunteer Nicas be sent to the homelands of all participants where they will steal everything, and I do mean everything, (including drawers) not nailed down.

Once the populaces finds themselves bereft of all earthly belongings, said Nicas will then tell such wondrous lies and stories in explaination of their actions as to cause everyone to swoon.

OAS officials are mulling his offer while the US has pledged bus fare.

SiV says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:19:

Billyb, I've stated before that I am not, nor have never been, a Farc apologist. I am insulted that you imply so, if that indeed is what you are doing. Please respond to the comments and arguments, and do not try to whitewash those who you are not in agreement with blanket statements. Please keep to the issues, without personal attacks.

Bam, I don't know anything about the COHA, I just found the quote interesting. Also, I said that I disagreed with the speaker, in that it could well be possible to find this data in the jungle.

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

bamacellist says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:20:

jajajaja!!!! Thank you chester. I've been sick with a cold that refuses to go away but I feel much better all of the sudden :))

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

bamacellist says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:27:

SiV, I was not judging or commenting on you personally, just the quote and the bias of its original source. The doubt expressed by the quote seems ridiculous to me for the obvious reasons, as stated by billyb.... laptops are meant to be carried with you; Reyes was in the jungle, ergo laptop in jungle. This is a question from someone working for a THINK-tank?!?!?!

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:33:

This might come as shock to some, but france has denied that they were in contact with Reyes to set up a meeting with Sarko, as the FARC said it was, in an effort to make his death seem like a true setback for the human accord. Will the the water carriers now say that France is lying? That maybe Sarko's laptop malfinctioned and he lost the emails from Reyes?

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:35:

SIV, the FARC apologists are the ones who orginally put out those ridiculous redherrings, you are just repeating them, sorry you got caught in the middle ;)

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:40:

Ecuador's Correa now seems to be backing away from having Colombia condemmed in the OAS and moving towards a resolution reiterating the inviolavility of countries' sovereignity. HMMM, there might be a solution in that direction.

Man Tequila says on Mar 5, 2008, 07:02:

What else is Correa going to do? He's not going to fight a war over this, particularly if Ecuador was involved in some way with FARC. Correa's own position in Ecuador is a little unstable.

I said Alma was a nice guy. I agree he doesn't have to read posts or comment on them. These "I'm leaving for good/for a while/to get a steak sandwich" posts always make me laugh too.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

bamacellist says on Mar 5, 2008, 07:32:

billiyb, I saw a news report yesterday or the day before which said France said it was aware of talks between Correa's govenment and the Farc, but did not say or even imply the French were directly involved. Does the source you're refering to say France was unaware of any talks? In this blizzard of announcements it's hard to keep track of who said what and what it actually means... It's also hard, for me at least, to keep track of sources. One of the joys of the information age.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

bamacellist says on Mar 5, 2008, 07:42:

Never mind, I see it at Caracol Radio, and it doesn't mention any knowledge of recent talks between Farc and Ecuador, so it seems unlikely, but not impossible, that they knew of any talks regarding Ingrid's release through Ecuador. Interesting.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:38:

"SiV says on Wednesday March 5th, 2008 5:07:
robi666, here's a quote I found from the British broadsheet, The Independent:

"Regional analysts cast doubt on the laptop claims, pointing out that records of financial deals were unlikely to be kept at a remote jungle base of operations. "The far-fetched allegations of laptops are almost comical," said Larry Birns, of the Washington-based think-tank, the Council on Hemispheric Affairs. "What would this stuff be doing in the jungle?"

Larry Birns' IQ = 2.5 ?
No, I cannot even believe he is stupid enough to write something like it. Farc supporter?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:47:

He writes it and some people spread it.

Man Tequila says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:58:

Where else is FARC going to keep its information? With the goblins at Gringott's Bank and Harry Potter?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:02:

There won't be a condemnation of Colombia and Colombia eccepts that it violated ecuadorean territory and sovereignity, was the compromise at the OAS today.

seacritter says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:25:

Well... Chavez is pretty much the barking chihuahua. He's aggravating, seems vicious, but you know he can't hurt you. If you kick the chihuahua across the room, you look like the bad guy...

/my $.02

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:35:

Ah. I was wondering who it was that posted PBH comments on Fark. Busted! Ha Ha ;)