What were the guys really doing?

bufalo says on Jul 25, 2007, 11:53:

I met a "nice" group of gringos years ago in the heydays of Santa Marta - they weren't there selling Girl Scout Cookies - only time I actually was worried about my own safety in Colomiba, go figure.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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manjar says on Jul 25, 2007, 12:54:

I want to know what my tax dollars are doing in Colombia hehehehehe. Seriously, I just keep hearing of them and I am curious as to how they ended up in Colombia to start with?

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toneloc24 says on Jul 25, 2007, 13:41:

CIA or off-the-books military operatives. Contracted out, now disavowed.

If my memory serves me correctly, there's a limit on the number of official US military on the ground in Colombia. I once read a number like 800 at a time. One way to get around that number, contractors.

Maybe they were Plan Colombia. Maybe they weren't. Either way, the US government doesn't seem too interested in rescuing them. It's been like 4 years now.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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juancegomez says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:42:

Plan Colombia is right as far as I can tell.

Which specific activities those three (and another guy plus a Colombian on the plane, both of which were murdered IIRC) were carrying out (and why) could be debated, but it seems they were doing surveillance at the time of the event.

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deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 18:36:

They're not forgotten. The U.S. wants them back but we do not negoitate as a matter of foreign policy. It's always been that way so you're taking a risk when dealing with rebels, terrorists, etc.

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salsero96 says on Jul 26, 2007, 06:53:

Supposedly, They were working in Colombia under a U.S. government contract awarded to California Microwave Systems, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman, when the engine of the Cessna 208 they were flying failed.

There were 5 men on the Cessna 208. Systems analysts Keith Stansell and Marc Gonsalves, Colombian guide Luis Alcides Cruz, and pilots Thomas Janis and Thomas Howes. They were surrounded by FARC and Cruz and Janis were killed. The other three, (Stansell, Gonsalves, and Howes) are the hostages that you are referring to.

According to them they are part of Plan Colombia.
According to FARC they are CIA.

There was a documentary filmed about these men called "Held Hostage in Colombia"
FARC allowed the filmmakers in to interview the hostages.

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juancegomez says on Jul 26, 2007, 07:46:

Well, the guys themselves, when interviewed by Botero while surrounded by FARC guerrillas, continued to say that they weren't CIA, even if GiB may have a point there. But FARC doesn't really have anything to prove that other than their own prefabricated propaganda, regardless of whether it may be true in this case or not.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 26, 2007, 08:27:

That's the "wonderful" thing about secret and semi-secret agencies like the CIA - they are a one size fits all bogeyman and rarely comment on accusations. In the early 60s they tried to do away with Castro a couple of times. Historical fact. Castro, of course, milks that for all it's worth and says they have tried to kill him SIX HUNDRED times and Chavez repeats the ludicrous claim.

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toneloc24 says on Jul 26, 2007, 09:40:

Tinto: regarding Castro. For many years, the US denied sponsoring assassination plots against him. The actual CIA documents recently released prove that the USA was LYING, and even contracting organized crime families to carry out the actions. These are facts.

Say what you want about Chavez, but maybe there have been US-led attempts on him. It's now actually believable in this climate.

"In any event these guys beleived they were helping Colombia many Colombians beleive the same and are greatful."

I must disagree with this statement. Keep it real. They were there to make money, as is the case with most contractors. They get paid more $$$ to work in unsafe environments. They probably never expected to get kidnapped, irregardless of the US State dept's strict warnings at that time.

All this idealistic "these guys believed they were helping Colombia" crap is a reach at best. It's a shame that they are being held hostage, but it's a risk that anyone visiting Colombia is well-aware of, and that should be double for anyone working on behalf of the US govt there.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 26, 2007, 10:12:

Toneloc, my point is that there is a world of difference between a couple or a few "open secret" attempts on Castro dating back more than 30 years ago and his claim that there have been 600. That's preposterous. His importance/his threat was diminished long ago.

No argument from me on foreign contractors of this type. They might have interesting or exciting or even meaningful work, but the $$ are probably the biggest appeal.

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toneloc24 says on Jul 26, 2007, 11:00:

I understand your point. There's a vast difference between 6 and 600. However, even admitting to one attempt loses the right to claim any moral high ground.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 26, 2007, 11:04:

Here we go again.....Storytelling Time from Bogota Don......living a Fantasy Life in a Fantasy World....how sad........People in the LEO business dont use a bullhorn to tell their stories like El Delusional here does...only those phony wannabees and never did types do.......Pure Paper Tiger..taken with a grain of salt....but there is quite the flare for the dramatic, dont you think??

did i tell you i have some swampland in Florida to sell you? how about a bridge? =)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Man Tequila says on Jul 26, 2007, 12:50:

So many newbies with such strong opinions!

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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rumronrum says on Jul 26, 2007, 14:09:

They were entertainers on a USO tour........................

RumRonRum and http:/www.medellinvisitorguide.com and http:/www.medellinexecutivehotel.com and http:/wwwcommunitywalk.com/medellinexecutivehotel

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bufalo says on Jul 26, 2007, 18:19:

I had a teacher of mine from Bogota way back when the said the Peace Corp was thrown out of Colombia (mostly by University students) because they were accused of being CIA.

Another teacher said the same thing happened in Africa because whoever was doing some bombing alway knew where to drop the bombs - right where the Peace Corps constructed wells.

OK, I thought it was weird, still do to a point, but then again, what does the CIA do? There not going to announce they are there are they? No, I don't think the Peace Corp is or was CIA, but like GIB said, and I also believe, I think there's a lot of people out there that have no clue exactly who they are working for, or that maybe some group like the CIA might use their info for use.

Either way, I have to admit it was really freaky when I went to the Peace Corp office, before the towers were tumbled, and got a packet because I was still interested in joining.

First page in the packet was a sheet that said, in huge print, something like: If you are or were, or anyone in your family is or were a member of the CIA, then you cannot apply to be in the Peace Corp. - oh sure, that'll keep them out.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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bufalo says on Jul 27, 2007, 11:05:

why don't they just Google their names and check out their bios?


jajajajja (just in case someone takes this seriously)

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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