What on earth is happening in Cali?

Gator says on Oct 17, 2009, 19:21:

Different gangs fight for territorys and control of barrios.

"Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare" .

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lpdiver says on Oct 17, 2009, 19:23:

Maybe Cali is the only one honestly reporting.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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theflatline says on Oct 17, 2009, 19:26:

Darloup,

Welcome Colombia.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 17, 2009, 19:52:

Robert Jorge says on Oct 17, 2009, 20:07:

I'm surprised Yawn hasn't chimed in yet! (obligatory exclamation point intended)

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Buongone says on Oct 17, 2009, 22:38:

Might have something to do with Millions of dollars getting nabbed in those containers coming from Manzanillo, Mexico. Routes are busted up. Someones gonna pay $$$$ Was surprised with the amount of killings on Dia de Amor tho. Should be love, not death.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 17, 2009, 23:10:

Buogone, I think you are 100% correct. Millions intercepted, tons of blow confiscated - within weeks, dozens are dying violently. Gotta be blind to not see what is happening. There is no "might have something to do" ..... you hit the nail on the head.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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romy says on Oct 18, 2009, 01:52:

at least they saved some addict's life...

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 18, 2009, 10:07:

Cali has always been a dangerous city. Very rough around the edges there. Still primitive when compared to the other cities Bog, Mde. You have to me more vigilant there. I always take am extra peek over my shoulder when walking down any dark alley.

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 18, 2009, 10:59:

PCL, not always.
Primitive? It was Colombia's leading city in law and order, cleanliness and traffic control, 25 years ago. Cali cartel drug economics, bad local administration and the political power that shifted away from the city and area brought this lovely lady of the valley to her knees and made her beg for her bread and receiving only crumbs. In the late seventies and early eighties Cali was the most livable city in Colombia and one of the safest too. Even the climate seems to have changed and gotten hotter since then. The Caleña was considered the loveliest woman in all Colombia and had not any of that cheap, raunchy stamp on her yet. Then came the drug lords and destroyed my city. Both economically and morally.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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tropicalshirt says on Oct 18, 2009, 12:17:

The murder rates in Cali or Medellin are very high but I don't think this is unique to Colombia.

For your information Cali and Medellin are very similar in size to a city in Pernambuco, northeast Brazil called Recife. Its a great city but so far this month (October) 172 murders have been committed in the state.

This website lists the people killed and details names, how killed, age, sex, etc

http://www.pebodycount.com.br/ocorrencia/ocorrenciaTodos.php

If you look you will see the names are all local, the ages are all young and the sex is all male. Does a similar website exist for Cali or Medellin?

As Gator points out above the reason for the killings in Colombia are the same, more or less, as in Pernambuco, Brazil, "Different gangs fight for territorys and control of barrios."

My point is the people being killed in Cali or Medellin are the same as in Pernambuco, Brazil. Differences in culture certainly exist but the same similarities are causing the high number of murders, whether it is the Los Machos or the gangs from Santo Amoro, Recife, it is acute poverty and lack of any importance to these Colombian or Brazilian young male lives. The best option they see is drugs.

What you have to look at is who is being killed and what value their lives have, nada

With all respect to you PCL and Desi, and others who have a large degree of concern about your safety in Centro Cali etc, (and I'm sure many Colombians share that concern) I have spent years in Recife and similar Brazilian cities, and I feel little different about visiting Cali Centro or Medellin. If I was young, Colombian or Brazilian and POOR, it would be a different story. That is beacuse, as you know, the whole system is contaminated and hasn't changed despite recent advances in urban planning, social programmes etc.

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Gator says on Oct 18, 2009, 14:23:

Right on Desi, and Gof bless!

"Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare" .

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larry bird says on Oct 18, 2009, 14:30:

darloup, you think that is a lot??
Rio, 12 months 2008: 6000 fucking dead
SP, 12 months 2008: same shit
where i live 2000 dead per year, in the state of ES, that is just a small state.

Wake up, colombia is safe, just be carefull with the narcos and farc people

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tropicalshirt says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:11:

larry,

you in vitoria, espirito santo?

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larry bird says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:12:

yes but per capita is more problematic in brasil , believe me
colombia is in a long term war and the attacks ofcourse are way more professional than in here in brasil, that is also why you have dead people in colombia
the thing that is bad here in brasil, is a country supposed to be functionning well, and why on earth so many people get killed here?? can somebody explain me that???

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tropicalshirt says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:13:

anti,

Can't you see the parallels between the population of Recife and Cali/Medellin?

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larry bird says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:17:

si senhor tropical vitoria es, on the beach right nowww...

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tropicalshirt says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:19:

Thanks anti.

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tropicalshirt says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:23:

larry,

praia da costa?
falamos portugues! tenho amigos em vitoria mas tudo em londres agora hahaha!

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larry bird says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:25:

and today i am particularly pissed off, because a friend of mine lost 2 friends in the helicopter crash of Rio de janeiro today, welcome gringos to brasil, love the country though, but violence and maintenance of violence is a business here

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larry bird says on Oct 18, 2009, 15:27:

ah tudo joia, sou holandes mais tinha minha empresa aqui, onde voçe e agora??

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tannedincali (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 18, 2009, 20:24:

tropicalshirt says on Oct 19, 2009, 01:16:

ola larry,

saudades para brasil, estou em londres por agora...

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davidyamiga says on Oct 19, 2009, 05:57:

This is great news! It means that we will get no more PCL's in dark alleys. No more gringos coming to Cali, since it is too dangerous.So all you gringos, go to Medellin. Go to Bogota. Go to Recife (it is a beautiful city!) but do NOT come to Cali.

Otra vez en casa...Cali!

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 19, 2009, 11:56:

TIC I think Cali is still very rough around the edges and primitive. The MIO fiasco is a failure it has caused more traffic and debt for Cali then alleviating any of the traffic. There are not enough routes nor bussed yet. Have you been to Bogota and MDE lately and seen how modern those cities seem when compared to Cali? It seem that the have left Cali in the dust. As far as finding things you can find in most other major latin cities? This is a given. Im not questioning that. Cali is still dangerous as fuk and never take this city for granted. I have traveled extensively thought the Estrato 6 in el norte to the estrato 1 and 2 barrios on the way to juanchito where travel by horse drawn carriages to move shit it still quite the norm.

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

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Monita Linda says on Oct 19, 2009, 18:39:

PC lover, most people I know are VERY pleased with the MIO it's fast, AC'ed, relatively safe. I don't know what your problem is, but you're welcome to talk about it any time!

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Morrongo says on Oct 19, 2009, 19:24:

the Mio
Safer yes, AC yes,I cannot agree the Mio is fast, apart from one route on the E31

Obviously ML we move in different circles as everybody I know moans about it. I use the Mio quite a lot on various routes , some are painfully slow

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El Expatriado says on Oct 20, 2009, 02:40:

I agree with PCL. Cali is a big ,dirty, hot noisy, dangerous city, and the traffic sucks, especially during Hora del Punto.

Then I'm just a hick from Sakatchewan.

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El Expatriado says on Oct 20, 2009, 02:42:

And I can't even spell my home province right!

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davidyamiga says on Oct 20, 2009, 05:53:

That goes to tell you how much you know about Cali. But like I said before, if you do not like, do not come. Better for us gringos who live there and luv it!

Otra vez en casa...Cali!

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 20, 2009, 07:38:

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 20, 2009, 09:53:

Monita what do you want to talk about Cali? Let me know. The Mio.. Still needs alot of work.

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

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gatogris says on Oct 20, 2009, 11:23:

Basically, what is happening in several Cali barrios is the following story of devolution and atomization.

From about 1995- 2002 the gangs in Cali represented a form of sub-politics, that, while still very violent, had a number of corresponding interests with the barrios in which they operated. In other words, these bandas were an adaptation to social and state breakdown, constrained economic circumstances, uncertainty, and the sheer coolness of gut-shooting an enemigo with a cut-down gauge and spitting in his face while he writhes. But, a few years ago, while the pandillas engaged in collective social violence against each other for economic and political advantages, they nevertheless attempted to cultivate a moderately positive role in the community as a way to cement their respective positions.

However, more recently, the gang as a true organizational form has become much more fragmented. While the FARC, the Aguilas, and the Norteno and Valle narcos all maintain small cadres of armed soldiers, their former great proxies, the bandas, have devolved. Gang members have increased their crack consumption, and therefor need ever-higher revenue to buy more drugs. Consequently they sell, not in turns on street corners, but as individual entrepreneurs, much more likely to be in direct competition with each other. When even opportunities within the gang disappear for the young men who were members, it becomes much easier to say fuck it and walk into the cannon smoke.

Following the Brazilian model, Cali state and city politicians (despite Ospina's claims to the contrary) have adopted a exclusion and segregation model towards the barrios, as well as heavily arming more police that are sent there. Although in Cali, the relative power of the state has increased vis-a-vis the gangs, and high profile seizures and arrests have been made, this has actually not helped to diminish the violence, as the overriding policy of the state still seems to be one more pipehead punk off the board can only be a good thing.

Unfortunately, as a cursory glance over to Palestine will tell you, this is not a far-sighted policy.

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Monita Linda says on Oct 20, 2009, 13:14:

While the Mio isn't perfect yet, it is a great step of Cali's desarrollo... I take it every day and by far most people love it and prefer it over small, hot and stinky, dangerous little busses that take forever.... True, it's network needs to get better etc etc... but this is a big step in the right direction..!!

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El Expatriado says on Oct 21, 2009, 06:07:

Problem is I come agaian and again. Beeen there 12 times. Problem is, my Novias lives there , and doesn't wanna leave.

Probably been to more places in Cali than you have DYA. I just call em the way I see em. Caliu aint my favorite place in Colombia. I've seen a lot many nicer , more beautiful, safer and relaxing places. Punto cerrado.

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El Expatriado says on Oct 21, 2009, 06:09:

Now I shore don't walk around Cali with a fake cowboy hat, thats fer shore! Leave that chit for the Calgary Stampede.

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Monita Linda says on Oct 22, 2009, 14:12:

EE you're funny!

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Monita Linda says on Oct 22, 2009, 14:16:

12 times whooooooooooooooy that is a LOT jajajajjajajajajajajajajaja

if you don't speak spanish and act gringo-y you're ovbious, like the guy I saw with the girl today in jardin plaza, or the 2 gringos with the girl in unicentro last sunday eating in mc donalds, etc etc!!!

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El Expatriado says on Oct 23, 2009, 05:56:

Yo hablo 100% español quando estoy en Cali- por meses continuamente. Nadie de la familia de mi novia , los vecinos , mis amigos, puedan hablar Inglés. Y nunca me visto con camisetas de Hawaii, sombreros de vaqueros, o otras cosas estupidas de los gringos. Lea mi perfil.No soy un papaya (en la manera estas pensando).

Pero, tengo un accento, es la verdad. Por esa razón, aveces, en algunos lugares, no digo ni papa.

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El Expatriado says on Oct 23, 2009, 06:02:

ML, Si tu naciste en Kazakhstan, hablas Ruso? Si, no pienso que esta sea una mentira? Yo conozco Kazakhstan, verdadamente.

Yo oido comida de Mc D. Sufficiente meirda por ahora.

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