What is with Colombian men and cheating?

junior says on Jun 5, 2004, 08:06:

statistics... statistics show a level of single mothers without fathers.

this is not an opinion it is information gathered and assessed to the best approximations. why? furthermore, it is quite clear that colombia is a society that places responsibility squarely on the shoulders of a woman when it comes to abstainence...not the men. apparently, nothing would happen if a woman decides not to let it happen. the only problem with this logic is....well...i'm sure that colombian men promise the world in return for what they want from a women...sex. but how many really intend to carry through on their words?

furthermore, colombians say that every man in colombia is entitled to 7 women. apparently there are a million more women than men in colombia. this is a problem in equity.

lastly, women in colombia idealize colombian men for their sexual prowess....and are viewed as "real men" if women were to stop idealizing men and hold them up to a high level of responsibility maybe change would occur.


junior....i love colombia

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junior says on Jun 5, 2004, 08:11:

equal responsibility if colombia made men responsible for their children i am sure that change would occur very quickly.

image living in a country where you can father all the children you want but never having to be made financially responsible for them. men are going to take advantage of this situation. it is evitable...

junior...i love colombia

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viewpoint says on Jun 5, 2004, 09:10:

Junior Colombia Has Laws Colombia has much the same legal framework regarding child support enforcement as the USA. Colombians "as a matter of law" are legally responsible for the support of their children. But you must prove who is the parent through DNA (as is the case in the USA) unless the other parent acknowledges the child as theirs. Many absent fathers or mothers simply lack the financial resourses to pay for their responsibilties (child support).

"Bienestar Familiar" assists people in Colombia to enforce family law cases including child support, rape, divorces, adoption or any abuses envolving family rights. They are located in every city (of consequence) and for the most part the services are free. Once a child support requirement is legally established it becomes part of your perminent record in Colombia requiring a deduction for each payroll (salary) check unless the other party is not employed or not visibly employed (underground economy).

We are all to quick to bash the Colombian man (including a few of my statements). I wish to retract them and acknowledge that they are the same as you and me only they have more opportunities than us because of disparing economic circumstances within Colombia.

We cannot build ourselves up by tearing other people (Colombian men) down. Non of us are the perfect man because we are from the USA or a foreign country as god made no one of us without fault.

Junior I am glad that our ex-wife(s) or girlfriends are not here on this forum to give their view about each of us. jaja

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 5, 2004, 09:11:

it's not just Colombia My brother who resides part of the year in the Dominican Republic tells that the situation is even worse there...the nuclear family the way we know it (father-mother-children) is almost non-existant. It's mostly just single mothers taking care of the offspring with an absentee father who sometimes sends money, sometimes doesn't.
I agree that there ought to be some kind of law (it probably exists but is not enforced) that'd make fathers assume financial responsibility for their children.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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junior says on Jun 5, 2004, 10:21:

no bashing intented.... firstly, i have friends in colombia who are men....being mexican and living close to mexico, i see first hand the inequities of a society where men are not made responsible for their children.

in the united states, i think jail time is part of judicial behavior modification.

never, when i make statements in this site, do i ever attempt to make myself apart from or better than the topic at hand. but to disregard that there exist variables that allow and not discourage absent parenthood is changing the subject not addressing the issue.

the fact remains, single motherhood is a problem in colombia especially young single motherhood. what's the solution? and this is not a value judgment it is a fact, that the colombian social services are aware; would like to make inroads towards changing, to ensure a positive change in colombian society.

my argument is that it is socially acceptable to be a father of many children from many different wives or lovers. the logic to me is, the first time poor you unemployed father but when this man continues to be a repeat offender, then the law should be more severe...jail time? kinda like a three strikes you're out....unless you intend to support these children. you'd be surprised how financial responsibility encourages matrimonial responsibility. they are not mutual exclusive.

lastly, how seriously do you think colombian authorities pursue single fathers? where are the resources? where's the incentives?

just talking...

junior...i love colombia

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 5, 2004, 10:32:

it's not socially acceptable, not even in Colombia. That the Instituto de Bienestar Familiar is not always capable of forcing the absentee fathers to face their responsibilities does not mean that the society per se accepts this kind of behavior. It's unfortunate that many people have this biased view on Colombian society, the values and mores in general. Colombian families do not raise up their children to accept irresponsable parenthood, neither it is taught in the schools or preached from the pulpit.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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viewpoint says on Jun 5, 2004, 11:12:

Pregnancy Is Shared Responsibility It takes two people (male and female) each practicing unprotected sex or no birth control to produce an unplanned child (not a man alone). I have one of those piasa (step)children (now 8) running around my office right now and he is the joy of my life. The only father he has ever known is me and I am not his biologcal father. He is a joy to be around for all that interact with him. His real Colombian father was the loser by not caring (or willing) to share in his life. Someday I will take him to meet his biological father when he is much older or ever asks.

Another issue that gets beat to death is the concept that Colombian women are all trying to find a relationship with an american or foreign man to marry and leave Colombia. To put this falsehood in perspective there are approximately 42,000,000 people living in Colombia of which 50% are men and 50% are women so 21,000,000 are women of varing ages and marriage status. I would guess that if you added all of the Colombian women websites up together you might find 10,000 looking for a relationship with a foreign man. If you multiplied this number by three you would have 30,000 but it's a small percentage of the Colombian women of eligable status living in Colombia. Most Colombian women are not looking outside their Colombian counterparts for foreign men.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 5, 2004, 11:28:

Gary, Did you meet the new alcalde in Cali? What do you think?
Yes, of course, it takes two of the opposite sex to create a new child:) and the problem is that the girls in Colombia should receive much more sex education at home and at school to be able to avoid unwanted pregnancies. Sometimes an "unwanted" pregnancy can also been seen as a method of trying to "trap" a man, but most often it backfires.
Children are a pride and a joy, but wanted children ever much more so.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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viewpoint says on Jun 5, 2004, 11:49:

Hola Desideria I have not been able to make the trip to Cali yet and it is put off until the frist week in July. I am looking forward to meeting him. Did you get the message and the Colombian Embassy link regarding the subject of color we were discussing a couple weeks ago ? I thought you would find that interesting.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 5, 2004, 11:57:

Hola Gary, no, I don't think so. I might have just missed or overlooked it, sorry. If you don't mind give it to me one more time. I think the subject is fascinating.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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geeimalive says on Jun 5, 2004, 12:36:

catholic influence Another reason why there are so many single moms is that most colombians are very catholic and consider it against their religion to get an abortion.

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junior says on Jun 5, 2004, 16:12:

to Gary VI i don't think anyone use the word....all

all is a universal statement meaning, well, all...

there's some....

of the 21,000,000 women, i can't believe they are all available for marriage...some are available

what was actually being communicated what another issue....

lastly, do you guys work for the american embassy? what's up with that?

junior...i love colombia

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caribgirl says on Jun 5, 2004, 16:50:

Odd,

Catholic influence would then state no pre-marital sex also. There are people who use religion to suit their purposes when it is convenient.

I am from the Caribbean and though I live in the U.s. now, I have seen so many women use religion once they are pregnant in order to have the baby.But most of the time, I truly believe the baby is kept as a way to make the man marry them or stay around.

It is also a Caribbean myth there are 7 men to every woman, but we all know it is actually pretty even.most everywhere there is not a huge imbalance of male to female. But since many of the women believe there is a huge male shortage, it makes them very desperate and competitive to keep a man. Therefore, many will do whatever it takes to keep the man they have. Even if it means sharing a man.

What I cannot understand though is the high percentage of cheating men would mean there is a high percentage of cheating women. Since basically there are equal number of both sexes unless we are looking at older male/female ratio statistics.I mean who are the men cheating with?

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asmith says on Jun 5, 2004, 18:58:

Its not----- Dear Ms Desideria:The society does in fact accept the behavior, it continues year after year. Read your last sentence, then where does it come from?

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asmith says on Jun 5, 2004, 19:20:

Pregnancy------- Dear GaryIV: There are not an equal amount of women vs men in South America. No one knows why there are more women than men but, it has to do with what the men produce.

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asmith says on Jun 5, 2004, 19:24:

Odd------ Dear Ms Caribgirl: In South America there are more women than men.Fact.

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charlotte says on Jun 5, 2004, 19:53:

Plastic surgery Hi there! I'm from Texas and have a friend from Colombia. He was telling me of the great plastic surgeons that were there. I was hoping if anyone could recommend a great surgeon in Bogota. I'm interested in breast augmentation and liposuction! yeah! I live close to Houston, and the cost of these two procedures together would be close to $10k! So, I thought Colombia might give me the same quality at a lower price. Just let me know! Thanks!

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walter says on Jun 5, 2004, 23:35:

My opinion why they cheat or have the reputation. Well, one thing I observe, there are many beautiful women in Colombia. The way the walk, dress, and represent themselves is a provocative and alluring thing .

For any man, Colombian or Foreign, it is hard not to think or look at them. I can be honest. And you know us men, are suckers for that and easily seduced. Our eyes and second brain is just biologicaly normal, reproduce the human species.

I noticed the difference on the way women dressed in the US and Colombia. For me, the women in Colombia dress far more sexier and it was something they were proud of and not afraid to diplay it. Like thier beauty was one of the reasons they were Colombian. They are proud and not afraid to show it. But America, you see lot less of that now days.

The way Colombian women dress reminds me of the women in the USA during the 70s and 80s. Tight jeans, cleavage exposed, high heels. Like you would hardly see a young colombiana wanting to wear something conservative. And it would make them angry if you told them they should wear something more conservative. To me that one part of why the men cheat. The men are being fed with this.

It like they are advertising that I am a women who is looking for a man, even though they may not intend to do that. I understand many women dress sexy for their self esteem, but we men tend to receive a different message.

And there is dicipline, morales and belief. Also education and culture. What happens if a Colombian man gets caught, nothing or at the worse gets a divorce from his wife. He isn't forced to pay child support like in America. Or he can't because he is poor.

Basically, he will move on to another because more women are availiable and there is no one forcing him to pay for his child's life or even visit the child. Now, with this in mind, what keeps the men from doing it.

Here is a contrast, I am working in Irak now. And, their culture definitely reduces this from happening. The women are raised to be at home with the children and never to even lay an eye on another man if she is married or even touch. They are dressed in a way that no other man can think lustful thoughts. It is like they have a bed sheet wrapped around their body. You can't see there figure, breast, lips, butt, etc...The only thing you see in their eyes.

Every other part of the woman's body is covered. Also, if cheating was to happen. The husband has the legal religious right and will kill his wife and the man who made love to his wife. So doesn't want to cheat, cause she show knows she will be dead or condemned from the family forever and never able to see her children again.

His family would support and help with the matter. So there is a form a law in Irak for adultery. Also there is a strong moral about the family approving the future wife. She has to be inspected first. Someone fromt the family does a investigation of her life. Is she trustworthy, a virgin, and does she come from a good family. Before marrying is even considered. The future husband's family must approve the marriage first.

Also, they are still have strong beliefs that a woman to be wed must be a virgin. She loses her virginity after they are married, like the old days in the US. They also the men have a legal right to marry up to 3 women. Three wife rule, I guess keeps the man from cheating on his wives. Not to say all are this way. I was told by one of my Iraqi translators that the woman who are divorced or don't possess their virginity usually never marry or work in a prostitution lifestyle.

But in Colombia. It isn't as severe. A 15 year old girl can get pregnant with no marriage. And you see all the time if you lived in Colombia. You have tons of women who have children without a father. Because it is condoned. And this culture or lifestyle just spreads and that is what they see as life. It isn't enforced like in certain cultures.



And in America we have the same problem. Lots of pregnant teens because our society has changed, no father, no mother and accepted sex more so than in the 1960s for example.

But we have education on teen pregnancy. Educating protective sex, birth control. I think it is mostly education is why they cheat and the way they were raised from thier enviroment and family.

Imagine being a man in Colombia. And all your male friends speak that having another woman is just a normal thing and not a big deal. And it was cool to be this way. And most of them were doing it. And that is was the macho thing to do.

On a positive note, I do have Colombian friends who are educated at college level. And they are married, mid 20s or early 30s without children and not cheating living in the US. Happily married and building a future. So, this showed me that Education was a big factor.

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junior says on Jun 6, 2004, 00:46:

just because i'm dressed that way doesn't make me a.... imagine yourself dressed up as a police officer, and someone runs up on you and says "thank god your here, the bads guys are over there" whoaaaa...just because i'm dressed this way doesn't mean i'm a police officer!!

i agree, men tend to get the wrong impression...very naturally

junior...i love colombia

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 6, 2004, 03:42:

not that big a difference http://www.paho.org/Spanish/SHA/prflcol.htm

I was actually expecting the difference to be bigger. Another (older) statistic shows that there were more boys between 12 and 14, but more girls berween 15 and 19, and the difference got hugely bigger between the ages 20 to 29. It becomes obvious that a lot of young men between 20 and 29 die...if in the same year from 116 572 more boys in age group 12 to 14 we move to age group 20-29 and get 319 946 more girls.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 6, 2004, 04:55:

more about those figures So, there's about a half-million more women than men in Colombia, but since women have a higher life-expectancy rate, that would mean a larger portion of older women.
I've heard that same complaint often enough from my female friends:"ya no hay hombres en Colombia". What does that mean? That there are not enough marriageable young men that are heterosexual? The words of a very old song come to mind...."where have all the young men gone...to graveyards everyone...when will they ever learn..."
Of course it baloney to affirm that there's 7 women for every man in SA. It's a joke, a machist joke, but just a joke. The truth in Colombia is something of an excedent of 300 000 women in the age brackets 20-30, and that is not that large at all, if you consider the high mortality rate of young men in Colombia.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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juanalejo says on Jun 6, 2004, 09:53:

cheating? Here I am wondering why is it that we Colombians carry around all kinds of reputations that when they simply do not reflect me or the people around me. I remember when my grandfather was alive that having another woman was not that bad, but I do not remember ever hearing the same story around my father, my uncles or my friends fathers and definitely not around me or my friends or colleagues. Yet when ever I have foreigners coming around my office it makes me wonder why the Europeans (men and women) end once in a while with each other while they are here and the Americans (men) are always looking for local girls, while the other latins come and usually nothing happens, and if it does it is usually very undercover. But then again, we carry the reputation of being a society tolerant towards cheating and all I see is exactly the opposite.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 6, 2004, 10:35:

juanalejo I've been wondering about the very same thing. I've said this before and will say it one more time, even if my opinion about the matter is always just brushed aside with a sweeping "all Colombian men are cheaters...that's a fact". Infidelity is not socially accepted or condoned in Colombia. A generation or so ago it was much more tolerated, and in certain regions of Colombia there's less social stigma on it than in others.
I would think the old myths die hard and the established stereotypes will survive against hard evidence. All I have read here, however, is "my friend told me...", "I've been told..." and "everybody knows...". Infidelity exists in every society on this planet; except maybe in those countries that law punishes the cheaters by stoning or hanging them to death. Colombian laws are tolerant; so are the laws in most *western* civilizations.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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caribgirl says on Jun 9, 2004, 12:29:

Yes,
Statistically, there are more boy babies born in Colombia .1.03 . Till the age of 15, there are more boys than girls.
After 15 there are more women in Colombia than men. But in the 15-64 age group, there are male:12,452,182
female:13,111,707

difference 659,525

Which would actually be about 5-6% less males in that age group. Mostly due to the higher mortality rate of men over 40. I would guess from the age group of 15-40. The male/female ratio is actually pretty even which really goes to show if there is a high perecentage of men in that age group who cheat,just who are they cheating with?

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ColombianGringo says on Jun 13, 2004, 21:03:

reply I thought this post was why do Colombian men cheat on their spouses? Travel there and have a look around. There is way too many beautiful women there, and in competition....for You! My Fiance is very beautiful but if I lived there married...could I stay faithful? At first sure...but later on I would have doubts...A Colombian womans beauty is a very dangerous weapon...
:) Patrick

Feel free to write me with questions to kd7hsm@yahoo.com

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ColombianGringo says on Jun 13, 2004, 21:15:

stats The Statistics you are posting are irrelevant. On the women to men ratio is insignificant to the fact that how many men are what the women want...not many. The majority of the men there are not stable enough to what the women desire in their lives. Work/home/support. Most of the women there want more then the men there can provide...for example. What percentage of men ages 18 to 35 have a good job/life to support a wife/family?
Patrick
Colombia mi otro pais :)

Feel free to write me with questions to kd7hsm@yahoo.com

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 14, 2004, 12:11:

highly relevant You didn't think that an older gringo was a young colombiana's first choice as a mate? I would think most young colombianas would rather marry a colombiano close to their own age, even if he didn't have all that much money. It's these girls who have been let down, played, abandoned by flighty and unstable colombian young men who turn to older foreigners for security and stability. Granted, there will also be a few who have set their aim on marrying a foreigner from the start, but not that many, not that young, not that educated and not from the best families.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 14, 2004, 12:25:

You are absolutely right, Desideria. My wife would have preferred to have stayed home but there simply are very few Colombian men her age who can take on a wife and three kids financially. Her marriage prospects in Colombia were non-existent. Of course, unlike most gringoes I was: A) not looking for a Colombiana; B) looking for a woman my own age; C) willing to fall in love with a woman with children.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Dan says on Jun 14, 2004, 14:43:

Men are not the only ones... I think depending on background, anyone can cheat too. My last trip to Colombia, I spent some time with a bunch of guys from work who were married (american men married to american women), yet the women they were around didn't care about who they were with the week or even the night before. My girlfriend knows that they were all married and perhaps even with kids (i don't know). Yet that didn't stop anyone on either side from getting what they wanted. My girlfriend just didn't believe me at first when I told her that I don't do that stuff. When I'm with one person either as a girlfriend or even if I get married, I will never do that. Now she knows me well enough to understand that.

Anyway... I think it just depends on an individuals background. Not necesarily men verses women and pointing fingers.
-Dan

God Bless America!

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Bill1243 says on Jul 22, 2004, 02:33:

and put ANY man in Colombia and they too will cheat.... it's impossible not to!!! Well, not every man, but close to it!!

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 22, 2004, 08:02:

Que? Sounds like the devil made me do it! When I am in Medellin, I agree that there are a lot of lovely women to look at but I would not think of straying from my beautiful wife.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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daver says on Jul 22, 2004, 08:52:

Blame the Catholic Church.

In north America, the number 1 contributer to empowerment of women was the BIRTH CONTROL PILL. Once the pill came about, women's rights were no longer at the mercy of men... they controlled their rise in rights and freedoms.

If the Catholic Church insists on not teaching birth control (A nifty way to ensure a world full of Catholics) you will always have single teen-aged Mom's. If women became empowered in Colombia like they are in North AMerica and Western Europe, they can control when they get pregnant, and go and cheat just as much as guys do (like they do in North American and Western Europe). More importantly, they can plan there family, which I feel they have the right to do.

Dave

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ColombianoX says on Jul 22, 2004, 10:16:

Daver,

What makes you think that most colombian women abide by what the Catholic Church teaches? If people in Colombia truly followed the Catholic Churches teachings there wouldn't be that many kidnappings, murders, drug-trafficking, etc. in Colombia. I suggest you take your anti-catholic rhetoric somewhere else.

ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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seattlejames says on Jul 22, 2004, 10:33:

I also.... I would also like to know what makes you think that most Colombian women follow what the Catholic Church teaches......

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daver says on Jul 22, 2004, 10:55:

First off, I didn't intent to offend anyone or start a fight.

Nor did I say that most Colombian women blindly follow the catholic church (please read my post, and tell me where I said this??).

As far as Colombian troubles with drugs, crime, kidnapping... I never even brought up the subject.

As far as anti-catholic rhetoric... its not rhetoric, its a common critizism about the church, and not of catholic people. If I am offending people on the site, then I will stop my "rhetoric"

The fact is, birth control and family planning must be tought in order for it to become effective. It must be tought before the women HAVE children without a father around. This is during their pre-teen years when they are unable to reproduce.

In Catholic countries the church has a large degree of control over the educational institutions. They don't teach family planning and birth control, as this is an act of God. I know there is birth control widely available in Colombia, but what about teaching young women (an men) the benefits of planning a family.

In countries where there is active teaching about birth control and family planning, there are less mothers out of wedlock. Women have more rights a powers in these places. Not to mention children are better off in 2 parent families.

So yes "blame the catholic church" was a stupid thing to say, and this site was a stupid place to say it, but I truely think that Colombians would benefit if there were less teenage single mothers with children. This comes through education. Education about family planning should not be blocked by religious groups (and to single out Catholics was stupid also).

Again, sorry if I offended anyone, and I do realize that my words about the church were not thoughful.

Dave

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 22, 2004, 16:09:

Family planning is not very difficult to get in Colombia. You can walk off the street into a drugstore and the guy in the store will give a woman a birth control injection right then and there without a prescription. I wasn't too happy about the guy seeing my wife in her thong underwear!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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cristina8463 says on Jul 22, 2004, 16:25:

Plastic Surgery Charlotte,

Hello. I am also an American. I have been here for many years and it is true that the surgery here is cheaper. It would be worht you time and money to come here and stay at least two weeks to have your surgeries done during that time. I know of many American women who have come here just for that. If you are really interested I can get in touch with people and ask for good surgeon`s name that speak English and have worked Americans.
My email is cristina8463 at hotmail.com.
Cristina

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cristina8463 says on Jul 22, 2004, 16:47:

Cheating Men First of all - you do not have to be a beautiful women to have an affair with a married man - look at Monica L. and Bill Clinton. You can't get a more educated man than that.
Men have a hard time controling themselves. That is why in the states every action, thought and word that come out of our months is regulated and fined.
Here I will agree, Colombian women dress extremely unapropriately to the office. WE are very behind in office attire codes. But then again the youngest and most sexy and unmarried woemn get the jobs with no experience. Most of the hiring is done by men. You can be turned down for a job for being ugly, "overwieght", married and being older thatn 32. It is legal. Sexual harrasment is common place here.
About abortion - it happens all the time. Prostitution is legal here. Lots of college girls from wealthy families prostitue themselves out not necessarily to pay for tution but maybe to buy the latest fashion. This culture is based on looks and youth. Look at the comercials. YOu also see it in the states. Do not critize because look at Hollywood and New York and the polititians. Divorce rates are really sky high in the states.
Single mothers it is true. Small towns where coca leaves are the main crop for farmers have a very distorted sense of moral values here. The police and Welfare are trying very hard to get dead beat dads. Aids is a very big risk in Colombia, not so much in the big cities though. So be careful. Do not do drugs. YOu are hurting family live here in Colombia.
Colombian women do want to leave Colombia by getting married to a foreigner. But then again why do American men put ads in the news paper adverstising that they are looking for a Colombian wife?
I have seen and heard of lost of cases of foreign men coming here and cheating on their wives. Not just Colombian men cheat.

I would rather live on this side of the world then be treated like a peice of property on the other side. Remember that prostitution is a live and well in the Arab world too. Arab men travel the world and pay tons of money for a one night stand. Talk about a waiste and they are educated.

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daver says on Jul 22, 2004, 18:01:

Now that made me laugh! Hard! Thanks.

Dave

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Dan says on Jul 22, 2004, 18:34:

"I have seen and heard of lots of cases of foreign men coming here and cheating on their wives. Not just Colombian men cheat."

I see this all the time. My last trip to Colombia, a lot of the guys I worked with were mostly married, and some with kids, and they still played around with out a care in the world. At times, I have to continue to convince my girlfriend in Colombia that I am not like those other guys. I don't even WANT to do anything with another woman. I keep telling her, that she is the only one for me. I don't have, not do I want, any other girlfriends in the US or in Colombia.

God Bless America!

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