What is the attraction of living in Bogota

adrimm says on Jun 22, 2005, 12:32:

Then you may as well ask What is the attraction of living in any large city?

I'd wager that for the longer-term non Colombian residents, people or a person comes into the equation of why one might lived there (aside from work-related-living-there and short-term-curiosity-living-there

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maleorange says on Jun 22, 2005, 12:59:

to adrimm true but Bogota has a very high volume of traffic and pollution if you compare it to a european city. Some gringos probably love living in bogota but i would like to hear from them

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kernow62 says on Jun 22, 2005, 13:29:

I don't live there, but I could see myself quite happily living there.
The traffic is a pain, but I see that easing in the future somewhat with the increse in size and scope of Transmilenio. If you can find a job not too distant from your residence or on one of the Transmilenio routes Bogota is a very livable city. Polution in Bogota is no worse than in Europe a few decades ago, so there is the same prospect that Bogota will become cleaner too. Unfortunately the location has a lot to do with the problem and there isn't a solution for that.

I like Bogota because there is so much to do compared to most Colombian cities, and the temperature suits me fine. I happen to like the modern brick apartment buildings much more than glass enclosed skyscrapers and I like the bike paths and parks. The surrounding scenery is beautiful, there are plenty of things to do nearby. The quality and selection of fruit and veg is excellent, plenty of resturants. It is relatively inexpensive to live in Bogota.

In my opinion, Bogota has a lot to offer.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 22, 2005, 13:36:

Traffic is endemic to any big city, pretty much. NYC has very little traffic when you consider how dense it is and how many people live here.

Traffic in Bogota is about comparable to traffic in Toronto right now. But the air pollution in Toronto is much MUCH worse, especially in the summer. There are plenty of European cities with worse traffic than Bogota. London, Paris and Rome all come to mind. The worst traffic I experienced was in Santo Domingo. It makes Bogota look like nothing.

I personally find the climate there to be ideal for me. I don't like the heat at ALL. Also traffic isnt so bad when someone else can do the driving for you. I heard horror stories about the pollution there on the plane on the way down but I had no more problems there than I did in NYC.

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Colombiche says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:04:

Rubiazo Toronto is worse in the summer because of the freaking unbearable humidity that seems to retain the smog around the city (a lot of it coming from the Northern States). On average, though, I would say the emission controls are much much tighter here in Toronto than they are in Bogota and there are more green spaces.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:05:

When it isn't hot and muggy Toronto air is actually quite decent.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:21:

Colombiche--on the Air Quality in Toronto that was about 130 miles north of where I was born and raised, in Erie,Pa. We made countless trips to Toronto, winter fall summer and Spring. Many many week-end trips and the Air Quality was always good in Comparison to Bogota. Apples and Oranges to make the difference. Public transportation is great-the rapid transit and the extensive network of Buses keep many Cars off the Toronto area roads that otherwise would be on the roads there smoking and polluting&congesting the City. Ditto for Montreal!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:23:

Right you are GIB not much coming out of those vast plains and pine forests of Alberta, Manitoba ect

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Colombiche says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:43:

Mmmmm GringoinBogota I am not meteorologist, are you?

What I am saying is what I hear summer after summer being said by the meteorologists here in Canada. If it isn't true, fine. I don't really care where the smog comes from, I just don't like breathing it in.

Actually, if you look at a map, you will see that southern ontario lies south of the rest of Canada, it is like a little protuding leg coming out from Ontario's belly. Toronto is actually at 43 degrees north of the equator. There are many American cities due west of Toronto, and some that are even further North.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:44:

I hope the Map Above Gives you clearer picture of wind vectors.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:46:

By the way Toronto lies inside the yellow area towards the top ;P

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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litost says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:49:

Bogota combines the modern and sophisticated with the traditional and folkloric aspects of Colombia... there are people from all over the country, and a fair amount of foreigners too. Lots of good quality schools and universities, amazing nightlife, cultural events, etc. Great natural setting and surroundings. All the modern comforts and conveniences. In general, there is a mood that Bogota has improved and gets better by the day, and you can feel this all over the city and in its people.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 22, 2005, 14:50:

I agree with kernow, I could'nt live anywhere in Colombia but Bogota, I grew up there and I always like it. I feel trapped in the other cities of Colombia I find them to small after a month.

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aztec says on Jun 22, 2005, 15:32:

Living in Bogota Good question and one I have been asked by my North American and Colombian family. Some members of our family believe a move to Bogotá for us does not appear rational. In our case we leave a very comfortable and safe lifestyle in the USA.

Only a person who has been in Colombia would ever understand a desire to live in Colombia. Some of our reasons are as follows:

My wife is a duel citizen. She will be able to move between both worlds and yet be with life long friends and family.

My wife's family live in several cities of Colombia. We love and respect them and enjoy being around them. Like most people of Colombia they are friendly and supportive. They like individual North Americans even though they may at times disagree with government policies.

The city is alive and exciting. Bogotá is a world class city with international cuisine. You will find many of the same things one would find in Paris or New York.

Usually the same amount of funds will provide a higher standard of living in Bogotá.

The weather is perfect year round. Only a short inexpensive plane ride from warm weather.

The most obvious downside to living is Bogotá relates to the lack of personal safety. If you are afraid you are not free. Therefore, one must make special efforts to safeguard your every movement.

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aztec says on Jun 22, 2005, 15:34:

Living in Bogota Good question and one I have been asked by my North American and Colombian family. Some members of our family believe a move to Bogotá for us does not appear rational. In our case we leave a very comfortable and safe lifestyle in the USA.

Only a person who has been in Colombia would ever understand a desire to live in Colombia. Some of our reasons are as follows:

My wife is a duel citizen. She will be able to move between both worlds and yet be with life long friends and family.

My wife's family live in several cities of Colombia. We love and respect them and enjoy being around them. Like most people of Colombia they are friendly and supportive. They like individual North Americans even though they may at times disagree with government policies.

The city is alive and exciting. Bogotá is a world class city with international cuisine. You will find many of the same things one would find in Paris or New York.

Usually the same amount of funds will provide a higher standard of living in Bogotá.

The weather is perfect year round. Only a short inexpensive plane ride from warm weather.

The most obvious downside to living is Bogotá relates to the lack of personal safety. If you are afraid you are not free. Therefore, one must make special efforts to safeguard every movement.

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aztec says on Jun 22, 2005, 15:39:

Living in Bogota I apologize about hitting the post comment twice. Will be more careful in the future.

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capt.lou says on Jun 22, 2005, 16:06:

West of Toronto Detroit and Chicago, just a couple small cities are pretty much west of Toronto. In Ontario, which is a province in Canada, cars that do not pass emission tests are off the road. From Toronto, the next Canadian city of any size is Calgary with just over 1 million.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 16:16:

I like Bogota because it has a lot to offer, if you feel homesick you can find international cuisine easily or find someone who speaks your same language. The party scene in Bogota is also quite decent, there are lots of alternatives and most importantly, Bogota just like any other big city, doesnt belong to Bogotanos, I dont think I have met a 100% Bogotano- Bogotana, you get to meet people from all over the place and see how different people are in all regions just by mingling anywhere in Bogota.
I personally love it, plus its the center of the country, easy access to almost everywhere.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 22, 2005, 16:25:

And they leave food out so it spoils too, Londonmale.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 16:38:

LMAO Utopia.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kernow62 says on Jun 22, 2005, 17:27:

Cerealkiller, I don't know if I understand you correctly. You say you have never met a Bogotana that was actually from Bogota?

I know there seems to be half the population of Medellín and Cali in Bogotá sometimes [those places must suck ;-)] but I have met loads of 100% pure rolas.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 17:36:

Kernow I meant someone whose parents and family are all from Bogota, Ive met people who was born here but for some reason most of them come from Paisa or Santanderiano Families so their habits, words and food are completely different. I havent met any Ajiaco crazy Bogotanos or any of that...lots of Calenos as well but then again thats probably because at Uni those things are more obvious.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Rubiazo says on Jun 22, 2005, 17:47:

My gf is 100% rola 1/2 conquistadora 1/2 chibcha 100% cuquita :))

Toronto's pollution mainly comes from Hamilton ON actually to be very exact. Hamilton is the Newark of Canada, it actually smells JUST like Newark. The air is especially bad in Mississauga because it's right on the path of the trade winds from Hamilton. Pollution from Chicago is not gonna make it all the way to Toronto, folks.
As for transit systems, I'll take Transmilenio over the TTC any day. TTC is great if you're a tourist and don't need to get anywhere and can just admire how clean the trains and platforms are. Not so good if you are on any sort of a schedule.
As for smog checking cars, give me a BREAK. 50% of the cars in TO are illegally certed and uninsured (mine was one of them when I was there!) and haven't properly passed ANY sort of test. This is despite a $5000 fine they put in for driving while uninsured. People just drive till they get caught and their car gets impounded, then get another junk heap, forge all the papers again, and keep going.
A recent study put Toronto as the fourth-worst city for quality of air in North America, behind Mexico City, Houston, then Dallas. I didn't believe it at first either.
But this just goes to show the Canadian head-in-the-sand mentality I was bitching about earlier. Nothing is their fault. And everything works correctly. And the emporer's clothes are GORGEOUS!
I lived for 6 years in Toronto and it really did a number on my lungs. My asthma is MUCH better here in NYC than it ever was there. It's almost gone actually. My last Toronto address with 17 Christie Av right by the Christie pits, which was a great location but HORRIBLE for the air. I would wake up and cough for a good 15 minutes on a summer morning. I had no problems when I was in Bogota, except for when we passed the open sewers on the way to Usme.
Oh yes and Vancouver has over 3 million people now, Montreal has around 2.5 million.
You should all read Tinto's statistics. Very interesting. Bogota is actually one of the safest places in the whole country. So much for the big cities always having the most crime. NYC and Toronto are both definitely safer than Bogota (and MUCH MORE BORING) but many American cities actually have higher homicide rates. I would not have known. Although it can be said that American cities are defined way differently than Latin American ones and this could make the American cities seem worse.

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Doomedyouth says on Jun 22, 2005, 18:17:

I like living in Bogota and personally enjoy it a lot...it isn´t the most ideal place to live admittedly...terrible pollution, terrible traffic and a not so friendly climate are the three most obvious things you notice about the city...regardless there are a lot of things to do within the city and you can easily find a close and inexpensive place to go outside of the city when you crave to get out....you can also get a great taste for Colombia living here as there are a massive amount of people from every part of Colombia...I don´t think I could endure a lifetime here but it´s definitely a worthwhile place to spend a good amount of time in...

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kernow62 says on Jun 22, 2005, 19:32:

Cerealkiller, my wife is from Bogota, and her mother, her grandmother was from Ubate not too far away. Her dad was from Zipaquira so not really too far although I think his family were from Medellin earlier on. Bogota has grown greatly in the last decades so it is not surprising really.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 19:35:

Yeah I suppose. I have heard stories about the typical Bogotano....but I am starting to believe it is either an urban myth or an extinct species.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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santiBOG says on Jun 22, 2005, 20:23:

No urban myth here.... cerealkiller ... my parents are bogotanos and so are my cousins and the great majority of my friends. If you ever went to one of my family get togethers you'd never say we're an extinct species!!!

Also, I agre with kat, I would not be able to live anywhere else in Colombia, at least for now. Maybe when I retire Ill move to Villa de Leyva, who knows, that's still 30 or 40 years away. For now, I couldn't be anywhere else in this country but Bogota.

I find the weather here ideal for a place to live. Other places have good weather for weekends and vacations. But for working and studying, you can't beat the Sabana.

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QTPIE says on Jun 22, 2005, 20:28:

Actually... Where does smog come from?
Smog in Ontario is usually the result of the migration of pollutants from the United States combining with unfavourable weather patterns. There are, however, local sources of pollution that can contribute to the severity of smog events. Ontarians can take personal actions -- such as driving better-tuned cars or driving less, car-pooling, avoiding the use of gas-powered lawn mowers, or lowering the use of air conditioning during the summertime -- to lessen the impact of smog during a smog alert. All of these "spare the air" actions will help, especially for vulnerable persons who suffer from breathing difficulties or other health concerns.

Ground-level ozone and fine particulate matter are key components of smog. Ground-level ozone is formed when nitrogen oxides and volatile organic compounds react in the presence of sunlight. Ground-level ozone is different from the ozone layer high above the earth that protects us from the sun's harmful UV rays. Fine particulate matter is also formed from chemical reactions in the atmosphere as well as through direct emissions. The formation and transport of both ozone and fine particulate matter is strongly dependent on meteorological conditions.

In Ontario, elevated concentrations of ozone are generally observed on hot, sunny days from May to September, between noon and early evening. On such days, fine particulate matter levels are often elevated but unlike ozone they can remain high throughout the day and night. Elevated levels of fine particulate matter can occur throught the entire year, especially during stagnation periods when meteorological conditions are not conducive for the dispersion of pollutants.




Significant amounts of ozone and fine particulate matter are carried into Ontario from the U.S. During periods of widespread elevated smog, it is estimated that more than 50 per cent of Ontario's ground-level ozone and fine particulate matter come from the U.S. The map above shows the area from which southern Ontario air originates during days of widespread elevated smog. Historically, most episodes of elevated smog in Ontario come from emission sources in the U.S. Midwest.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



© Queen's Printer for Ontario, 2005 | Privacy Policy

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 20:29:

Oh well SantiBOG, now that you mention it and just for merely cutural and didactic reasons I was planning -along with Kat, ok yes we were conspiring, she was helping me- on taking you on a Premio and Kola hunt trip. However, now that I know you belong to an endangered species I might just go on this adventure on my own and bring you the Premios and Kolas in order to preserve your well being. :)

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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santiBOG says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:27:

Hey girls.... bring on the Premios and the Gudiz. I will, however, expect (both) your help in taking my species out of the endangered list... ummm, for merely scientific reasons, of course.

Deal?

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:31:

Bogota...The best climate for me I like cool weather. And if you like cool weather and don't care if there are more cloudy days than sunny ones, Bogota can't be beat. Any place where you NEVER have need for air conditioning suit me fine. In fact, at night, there are plenty of nights where a little heat would make things a bit more comfortable. This is especially so if you happen to get out of bed in the middle of the night. I always say that Bogota is the only place I know where people have to open the windows in the morning to allow the early morning sun to warm up the interior of your home.

The traffic is horrible. "Trancon" is what it is often referred to as. Perhaps there will be an expansion of the Transmilenio that will be sufficient enough to make a substantial change at easing the traffic. But I am doubtful that the system will expand that much to make an big difference.

The pollution could have been reduced a long time ago. The geography is a factor. But stand behind any bus and see how much emissions come out of it. The central are of bus exhaust is as bad as it gets. Outdated emissions systems continue to be installed on modern buses. Why? Because there are no national laws that are aime at reducing emissions. Emissions from motor vehicles is one of the larges causes of urban pollution. If the national government does not make a serious attempt at passing "clean air laws" similar to that of the US, the hope for reducing air pollution in the city is doubtful

Entertainment wise, Bogota can't be beat. It has it all. Shopping of all types is abundant too.The cost of housing is relatively inexpensive.

I love Bogota and would not have a problem living there

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:32:

The deal was Premio and Kola...I dont know what a gudi is but if Kat knows we can negotiate. And Im sure she´ll agree we need a butt naked picture just in case you dissapear and we need to prove the existence of a true Bogotano...Again for science's sake.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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santiBOG says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:54:

I'll settle for a premio, but... ... I can't give away my pictures for free. You can join my fanclub at bogotano4u.com . I recommend a premium membership, there's a 2 for 1 special right now ;)

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:11:

I wouldnt be for free, I am sacrificing my time and space just to go to the atlantic coast (what a pain huh?) in order to get you some Kola...thats a lot of work.
I wont buy a premium membership for pictures, If I am to pay for exclusive access I demand Videos, Chat an Xmas card, a bday card for my mum EVERY YEAR so that I dont have to remember myself, and a typical ajiaco recipe...OH and seeing as youre Juanes' fan #1, I want special video footage of you dancing La Camisa Negra in Andres Carne de Res.
Deal?

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 01:03:

Cerealkiller Well sad to said Gudiz dissapear a long time ago,But I am for the premio and kola hunt just to preserve the endagered species of course. We can't allow Santibog to dissapeard, look at what happened to Gudiz :-O.

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kernow62 says on Jun 23, 2005, 04:31:

An interesting thin has happe An interesting thing has happened in Brazil that will reduce pollution. Many years ago when the US, Brazil and other countries had the "fuel crisis" people in power decided how best to tackle this problem in the future. Brazil took the peaceful route and decided to rid itself forever of the dependence on foreign oil. They began creating ethanol factories and used the best crop for the job, sugar cane! Now they are being studied by foreign governments also interested in following this model. It would only work where you have huge areas dedicated to sugar cane growing.

As for Transmilenio it is I believe in phase 2 of 6 phases of expansion. The latest buses are cleaner diesels so hopefully Bogotá will become cleaner just as European cities have done. Ideally not using diesel or petroleum products would be ideal but that is not reality now.

Originally there was also talk of the need for a subway in Bogotá to supplement the Transmilenio. That is a huge costly undertaking but I think it is the best long-term solution. Hydroelectric power could then be used to move the masses of people. However costs will determine the solution. For example Transmilenio could have used electricity for propulsion too, and this was studied but deemed too costly at the time. Since it was begun though Bogota's fortunes have taken a marked turn for the better, so who knows what propulsion will be ultimately used.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 23, 2005, 05:45:

Honestly, Bogota has a long way to go before they could prove to me that they are well on the way to tackling it's traffice problems. Part of the problem is simply it's layout. What they should have done a long time ago,was constructed some sort of highway structure.

I mean you guys are talking as if the Transmilenio has solved it's problems. I heard about the several stage proccess. When they complete state three, I'll be more optimistic.

Mexico City has 13 subway lines. And highways, albeit smaller than US standards, all over the place. There isn't a city in the US that has thirteen subway routes. Yet, Mexico city still has traffic problems.

I will tell you one thing, the main reason that Bogota never expanded it's public transportation network is...the same old story. Corrupt politics. Do you think the Pastrana family, and the ownership interest they had in all those busses were interested in expanding their public transportation netword???

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santiBOG says on Jun 23, 2005, 06:13:

Cereal.. you get all that and more!! But wait, if you join now, you'll also get the santiBOG commemorative plate and an autographed pair of santiBOG's undies (boxers or briefs?).

Now, you're going to have to give me a heck of a lot more --Tequila anyone??-- than Kola Roman if you want to get me to sing along to Camisa Negra at Andres.

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Gator says on Jun 23, 2005, 06:37:

Overall... Bogota is number 1 because:

1. Activities, both cultural and recreational
2. Climate
3. In general "things to do." Restaurants, clubs, etc.
4. Being the travel hub, both air and bus, ease to reach other places. Kinda in the "center" of Colombia.
5. Shopping.
6. Education center of Colombia, i.e. Universities.

The longer I'm here the less inclined I am to honor Mrs. Gator's desire to move to La Costa.

My take, at least for me, would be Bogotá, Medellin, Cartagena, Santa Marta. Smaller cities would be Arminia, Popayan, Manizales or Ibague.

Mrs. Gator, Santa Marta or Cartagena.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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fosth says on Jun 23, 2005, 06:41:

Cerealkiller i understand where you're coming from. It's exactly the same in London now. Most of the people have no roots in London and have moved there due to it being the Economic, Entertainment, media,Cultural etc centre in the UK. Bogota seems very similar for this reason.

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Crazy Eagle says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:24:

blue sky, or the blues? Does Bogota get many days with blue skies? Some of us get down (in a bad way) if it is overcast for days and days.

"Where races mix, there's the source of great cultures." Frederich Nietzsche

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:24:

Fosth, Kat and SantiBOG Fosth, yeah that is sort of what I meant but in a "micro" sort of way. London is just overwhelming *gotta love the place*. The variety of cultures and how they interact with one another has become the city's trademark...People come to Bogota because it is thought to be an easier place to get a job and well for some strange reason the best schools and unis are here so it does attract a lot of people from different areas, however you dont notice unless you actually speak to people and hang out with them, since it isnt something obvious to the naked eye like it is in London.

Kat, thanks for your interest in preserving the Bogotano, I know you do it all out of the goodness of your heart, thats admirable. And its sad to hear about the Gudiz extinction, we need to plan a preservation campaign here, call Greenpeace or something.

SantiBOG, No way Jose, I want the Camisa Negra video, you can choose the place though. And tequila isnt even Colombian, I will bring you back some garapo or someother rural typical acoholic drink instead, dont tell me it doesnt sound appealing.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Rubiazo says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:53:

Bogota has 'rainy season' They can get 2 straight months or more of rain. It's not like steady pounding rain; it's othrographic rainfall, similar to what Vancouver or Seattle get.

I think a subway in Bogota would be great, but hard as hell to build. They'll probably end up either with just more right-of-way buses or an above-ground light rail network.

It would be nice to get some of those diesel-belching buses and trucks off of the road, but that's gonna probably be 10 years down the road.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:58:

Transpo "I mean you guys are talking as if the Transmilenio has solved it's problems. I heard about the several stage proccess. When they complete state three, I'll be more optimistic."

There is a big Trasmilienio line about to open running right down the middle of the Autopista del norte. That will make a huge difference. The repairs to the autopista that have been completed in the last month actually improved traffic HUGELY all across the north side of town by taking people off surface streets.

"There isn't a city in the US that has thirteen subway routes."

I suggest you click this link and start counting:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/

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Rubiazo says on Jun 23, 2005, 08:05:

As long as they improve public transit instead of just making more miles of road for private cars, they will start improving traffic. As a matter of fact, I think they should make it more of a pain in the ass to keep and drive a car so that cars would more or less only be for when you need to carry heavy stuff. When you have that many people living together it's really the only sane solution.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 23, 2005, 08:33:

After I wrote that entry about no other city having 13 lines, it occurred to me that NYC was probably the exception. But apart from NY, bet on it, there are no other cities that even come close to 13 lines. I am certain of that

May I also add, that it is absurd that it took so many years to build the Tranmilenio. I have been going to Bogota since.....forever, and it is one of the few cities in thw world that has a rush hour going even in the middle of the day.

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bkcarolina says on Jun 23, 2005, 16:46:

"I have been going to Bogota since.....forever, and it is one of the few cities in thw world that has a rush hour going even in the middle of the day."

Ever been to Washington, D.C.?

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kernow62 says on Jun 23, 2005, 18:21:

I wouldn't say the solution is to build more highways, that is a rather antiquated idea these days. Look at Los Angeles USA for example which has the worst traffic in the USA although Washington DC is creeping up. LA has loads of highways, but the problem is they have too many cars. A much better solution is mass transit like Transmilenio. Luckily Bogotá did construct some very wide roads with a green strip down the middle, these can readily accomodate Transmilenio. Better late than never I say.

Mexico City with its subway still has terrible traffic and terrible pollution, of course the city is huge but Bogotá will keep growing too. So the solution is to limit the number of cars period!

I can't say how Bogota's traffic jams relate in severity worldwide, they are bad that is for certain.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 23, 2005, 18:26:

DC That's funny. I have been there many times....over a dozen. It's rated the third most congested. But it does not speak to the issue of Bogota. It's is a totally different situation in Bogota. Bogota is bigger.....mcuh bigger. If you are on the far north side, and you have to drive to the centro, it can take for what seems like for ever to get there. DC is not laid on geographiclly like that. Also, most people work in DC. Very few of DC's of the people in the DC government apratus live there.The commute from the nearby regions.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 23, 2005, 19:04:

Worst Traffic I don't think L.A. has the worst traffic in the US. I'd put both Washinton D.C. and NYC worse, as well as many peoples' commutes in the San Francisco Bay Area (ever tried crossing the Bay Bridge into SF during rush?). L.A. is just famous for it's traffic because it has such a monstrous freeway system. But mostly, it works.

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miamimike says on Jun 23, 2005, 19:42:

Last Year Miami was listed as the worst US city to Drive but it has moved up to #2 or 3 worst. Boston I beleive took its place. Strange but true. The Transmilenio is being studied here in Miami as a possibility to reduce the congestion. The Voters OKed a Bullet Train as a possibility to reduce traffic congestion but our Governor managed to sidetrack(not kill it completely)it Without offering ANY other alternative ideas. And forget about more highways-too expensive and it does nothing to reduce the ever growing nuber of cars on the road and that is our problem.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 23, 2005, 20:00:

I'm driven a lot both in NYC and LA NYC's traffic is a total picnic compared to LA's. Even when it's busy it usually still moves. The only things that slow you up here are construction and accidents, but even then there's usually a good alternate. I actually had a lot more traffic headaches in Toronto than in NYC. Toronto is just a super difficult city to get around; there is really no good option.

Dont' know anything about DC or SF but I do hear they are very bad.
Santo Domingo is world's worse than anywhere else I've been for traffic. It's basically constant stop-and go (or gridlock) from about 6am till 9pm or so. A day never goes by without a major pile-up somehwere in the city. Nobody respects any of the rules, most of the cars are unsafe to drive, and you compete with motoconchos, burros, guys on unicycles, you name it! Also you sometimes have to go a mile out of your way to make a simple left turn there. You can seriously get where you're going faster by walking anytime that the sun is up there.

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adrimm says on Jun 23, 2005, 20:49:

Transmileno is brilliant If you have the space, it is far far cheaper than rail, and is very flexible. The whole separated expressway lane system doesn't get the credit it deserves becuase so many people eschew buses as a poor-man's ride. That said, underground systems don't wreack havoc bisecting landscapes the way surface transportation does, and can once in place can last very long. London tube is over 100!

Decisions decisons decisions.

Road building is a temporary bandaid to traffic problems. Build a new one or expand an existing one, commuting time gets chopped, and suddenly living at the other end becomes viable for a whole new crowd and so they all build houses and move there. Road usership then creeps up and suddenly traffic is just as bad as it was before except you've got more exhaust to inhale while you wait.

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brunito says on Jun 23, 2005, 21:06:

you guys are lucky just consider Montreal.

in winter, just get one snowstorm and your daily commute goes from 60 minutes to 4 hours for week afterwards.

this summer, you get those civil engineers and city council having the bright idea of blocking off all the major north-south arteries for 3 months on order to renovate. Those familliar with Montreal will freak out when they find out that Park at corner of Des Pins is being rebuilt while Clard between Shebrooke and Ste-Catherine is a pain because of the new UQAM skyrise. That Christophe-Colomb over at St-Gregoire is a huge hole capable of reminding Bostonians of their Big Dig...

Did I forget to mention that we'll loose downtown for the next 6 weeks because of 3 festivals in a row? (Jazz, Just for Laughs and Francofolies)

Subway is catching fire more often too! (tuesday the entire 3 main lines were closed from 10AM to 5PM due to a fire at Sherbrooke station)

And to say that we just paid 1 billion dollar to extend the orange line to the suburb and the net result is 3 stations (that's what happens when you hit granite at 6 foot depth)

Toronto has the smug, not all our renovations at the same time but boy I would'nt want to live there...What? pay $800 for a very small appartment and commute 4 hours per day to go to work? I'm not a crazy canuck! I'm a quebecois! :-)

Happy St-John's day! (our national holiday here in Quebec province)

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kernow62 says on Jun 23, 2005, 21:13:

Mr. Hollywood, I am not basing my statement about LA having the worst congestion on personal experience but on statisics (there's that ugly word again). Statistics show that not only is it the worst but the others aren't even in the running, they are so much ahead of the other cities in this regard (or is that behind the other cities).

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kernow62 says on Jun 23, 2005, 21:14:

Where the hell is Maleorange or Kerry or whatever his name is? He fianlly started a good thread and we don't hear a peep from him.

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adrimm says on Jun 23, 2005, 22:10:

Brunito That's when you start couch surfing with someone who lives on Sherbrooke and goes to McGill. :) We drove in, parked the car, walked everywhere for 3 days, and drove out. Vive Montreal et tout les fetes!

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Rubiazo says on Jun 23, 2005, 23:04:

Thank god for one thing Montreal finally air-conditioned the Metro this year!!! Man, it was like a turkish bath in there before, disgusting.
I always liked the Montreal metro and was jealous of it when I lived in Toronto. It's much better laid out, faster and quieter.

Rio's subway is actually awesome, but hardly anybody uses it for some reason. It's clean and beautiful and quick and efficient. The only problems are the distance between stations and the fact that there arent enough lines. If you live near a station it's an amazing way to get around though.

NYC's subway goes a lot of places but is also really badly plagued by construction. But amazingly enough, it's not as crowded as other transit systems. The Transmilenio can get REALLY packed, especially at peak hours.

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shirly1981 says on Jun 23, 2005, 23:49:

Nothing is compared with.......... Nothing is compared with the small cities of Colombia, like Barranquilla, Cartagena or Santa Marta. No pollution no too many cars no people covered from the head to their feet no cold no too much danger no hectic life,,,,,,,,,, "Costa is Costa"

Sophia

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fosth says on Jun 24, 2005, 01:59:

shirly1981 I think there's a reason for that.
Everyone on the coast can not be bothered to drive due to having to relax and have a few beers.
It's to hot to drive.
In Baranquilla everyone's cars end up washed into the Magdallena!!

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kernow62 says on Jun 24, 2005, 04:38:

Transmilenio should be crowded it moves more people per hour than any RBT in the world, even the one it was based on. The people of Bogotá are making it a huge success. Finally Bogotá has a sense of civic pride that was missing for many years.

As for the costa it is nice, but too damn hot, when I leave Florida it will be to an airconditioned city. They are more cordial on the coast though. Do they speak Spanish there. ;-)

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juanalejo says on Jun 24, 2005, 08:41:

Transmilenio The Transmilenio line that is about to open is not the Autopista Norte, that has been open for some years now. The new one is NQS or Carrera 30 that goes into the Autopista Sur. Also the Avenida Suba is under construction. The following lines to be built are Carrera 7 from downtown to Calle 72, Avenida El Dorado from downtown to the Airport and Avenida Boyacá. The average construction time is 2 to 3 years for each stage, and 3 lines are built at each stage. The program is supposed to finish by 2015 with all the lines covering the total of the city.

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adrimm says on Jun 24, 2005, 10:56:

Rio I'd say that a subway system no one uses is hardly awesome, rather a monumental failure. Crowds show that a system is successfully filling a need, and should be further invested in.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 24, 2005, 11:22:

LA ranking I just found this: "Los Angeles had the worst traffic of all major U.S. metro areas, with commuters spending 93 hours annually in traffic in 2002, the most recent statistics available."

I'm not Albert Einstein, but there's something like 260 weekdays in a year. Divide that into 93 hours and you get 1/3 of an hour, or 20 minutes. It seems like the average LA commute, the worst in the country, is only something like 10 minutes each way.

I'm losing my faith in statistics rapidly.

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lpdiver says on Jun 24, 2005, 11:25:

Mr. hollywood eighty percent of the people in L.A. work in home based businesses...jejeje.

T

"cook some rice!"

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kernow62 says on Jun 24, 2005, 12:48:

The figure I saw for 2002 was 136 hours which still doesn't seem bad. I think they are being slightly optimistic. It is like when the TV anchor proudly states "allow an extra 10 minutes drive time" and you have already spent 45 minutes trying to just get through one traffic light. :-)

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Rubiazo says on Jun 25, 2005, 00:23:

adrmimm don't get the wrong idea, the subway is pretty full, it's just that it still only moves 2% of the people in the city.

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quindioman says on Jun 25, 2005, 01:46:

g man i think london has more than 13 train lines......don't ssolve diddly.....you wanna catch a tube at 4;00pm on a summer's day to see what i'm talking about

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 25, 2005, 09:01:

The Tube has only got 12 lines. Also there is the LDR...and Tube rides during the summer are a complete nightmare. At all times.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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LuIsEnRiK says on Jun 29, 2005, 22:24:

w/e RoLoMbIaNo
la chimba bogota es la puteria con sus vainas pero es la puteria

RoLoMbIaNo

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elmodefoque says on Jun 30, 2005, 07:17:

Bogotá has way too many somber, red cheek, little Indians walking around, is got that La Paz, Lima, Quito look. I much prefer Barranquilla with a livelier, caribbean happy drunken feeling, and most people are dark/black modefoques like me.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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