What is missing from Bogota

tomtom33 says on Nov 15, 2005, 03:08:

Stability Without a more stable country within which to operate, that level will never be reached.

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morphus says on Nov 15, 2005, 03:50:

Bogota blows Bogota is cold, boring and dreary. whoever likes going there or lives there has a screw loose. the coast is way better.

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kernow62 says on Nov 15, 2005, 04:04:

Funny I didn't miss the lack of trap drummers in the least. Of course it would be hard for a papayera band to carry all that kit. ;-)

I would say the one thing I think Bogotá is lacking that most major cities worldwide tend to have is a large immigrant population. I reckon if things continue to improve that will naturally happen.

True I do have a screw loose, several actually.

I think safety concerns, not so much in Bogotá but in general in Colombia, either the real ones or those perceived and portrayed are the biggest hinderance to reaching the level of NYC, London etc.

I think it might be more appropriate to compare Bogotá to other Latin American cities such as Caracas, Lima etc. I think it compares favourably to many of them, surpassing many and falling short of a few.

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caslug says on Nov 15, 2005, 05:07:

let's see.. NYC has

great public transportation, miles and miles of bus & subway lines,
Safety,
LOTS of worldclass museums(gugeinheim, the met, etc.,)
Central Park
LOTS of worldclass restaurants, 5 stars restaurants and such
LOTS of bars/clubs
LOTS of diversity in restaurant choices(italian, ethopian, indian, chinese, vietnamese, korean, french, fusion, etc.,)
Broadway Theater district(lots of first run productions) that attracts top talents. ie, Matthew Broderick/Nathane Lane are NOT playing in BOG. Not to mention tons of off-broadway stuff, remember RENT came fr off-broadway.

BTW, other big cities(chicago, london, paris, berlin, etc.,) are also similar.

It's not fair comparing BOG to NYC, just like it's not fair comparing COL to US. Where' talking a country of 42 million(COL) being compare to a country of 300 million(USA). Of course US is going to have more resources to developed things. A more realistic comparision would be BOG to Lima, Caracas, Rio, Monterey, Prague, Kiev, etc.,

When travellers come to COL they're not expecting to have the same experience/admenities as going to London, SF, LA, NYC, Paris, etc.,

Sure there are areas(parque 93, zona rosa, etc.,) of BOG that can compare very favorable w/ NYC. What's the average per capitia income in BOG? 300USD/mo? what's the average per capitia income in NYC? 3000USD/mo? What that means is that NYC has more tax base, AND has a population that CAN AFFORD to spend money.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 15, 2005, 05:49:

a few things 1. Peace, stability, reduced crime

2. Immigrants and their vibrancy, ideas and start-up businesses

3. Less air pollution

4. better museums - probably not going to happen unless the tax code changes so that individuals and corporations get a larger benefit from donating.

5. More of their famous people like Restropo, Marquez and Botero living in the country

6. More international students at the universities

7. situated on a big river, lake or ocean ;-)

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caslug says on Nov 15, 2005, 06:07:

mario.. you cannot compare cuisines choice in BOG to ANY major US metropolis, because

A) the consumer base(ie, people) in BOG doesn't have as much income as US consumer base to support a thriving, vibrant restaurant scene. While parque 93 and zona T are nice areas that have decent restuarants, they're very small. One "asian" restuarant WOK isn't the same as having an ENTIRE chinatown or Little Italy or Little Saigon neigborhood the size of WHOLE of zona rosa. If you live in Houston, drive down Wesheimer Blvd, and you'll see and entire area FILLED with vietnamese/chinese restaurants/stores. In NYC you have Little Italy, Chinatown, East Village, etc., it's because people in NYC have money to spend on food so restuarants open to cater to them.

B) In BOG people don't have as much money so their are LESS restaurants, how many restaurants in BOG are consider WORLD RENOWN? versus NYC/LONDON/PARIS/CHI/SF?

C) Companies in BOG do not make as much as companies in major US cities, heck the STATE of CA alone is consider the 13th largest economy in the WORLD. What's the tax base, income level and disposable income level of Houston versus BOG. I venture to guess that HOUSTON as more money to spend on infrastructure AND dining/entertainment than BOG. And NYC has LOTS of more money than HOU to throw around for things like(police, transportation, dining, public art, etc.,)

Also, the reason BANKS in the US don't need as much security is because or Law Enforcement infrastructure is better funded than BOG.

AGAIN, it's not fair to compare cities in a developing nation to cities in THE richest country in the world. That's like compare Houston Astro to a Houston Junior college baseball team. While the JC team does it's best with the talent/resource it has, it can't compete against major league talent.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 15, 2005, 06:17:

I would take the entire city of Bogotá and place it between Cartagena and Barranquilla and then have all the rolos move in with the paisas, they share the same hard work ethics, very quiet, solemn, formal, polite and very driven, we don’t need then there types in the hot Caribbean coast.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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caslug says on Nov 15, 2005, 09:53:

Mario, the original questions was.. why isn't bogota a modern metropolis. It has to do with infrastructure, disposal income, security, business/cultural environment, etc., That's not to say BOG is NOT a wonderful, it is! I like BOG and would have no hestitation of living there, heck i'm going to be living in Medellin next year, and MED is smaller than BOG. I just don't expect to have everything that NYC has. Every city has it's charm, but some cities has more "stuff" than others.

I love HOU too, i visit HOU alot because my brother lives there, but i wouldn't compare HOU to NYC either.

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:22:

1. Bogota has amazing museums. Some world class art collections that you wont find in any other latina merican country and some are free ( Not 20 buck like the MOMA)

2. Fantastic parks all over the city. Including parque simon Bolivar which kicks ass!

3. Centro de alto rendimiento, where all deportistas from latin america come to train becasue its the best.

4. The new olympic pool complex, the biggest in Latin America.

5. Colonial Architecture and architecture that relfects different periods in Colombian history as well as different influences.

6. The best and biggest Net of libraries in Latin America. Check Bibliored.com

7. Ciclorutas. So bicycles have their own streets.

8.Ciclovia every sunday and at night in december.

9. restaurants of all kinds with some interantionally know chefs who are happy living in Colombia, and including thai, Indian and vietanmese ( you just didn't find them Rub)

10. The Gold museum Unique in the world

11. bars, night life, varied, live music, gay life, big electronic music scene,

12. People from all over the country. ( Not enough international immigrants yet kernow, you are right there) But I work at school where I teach children of 25 different nationalities.

13. An amazing array of colonial churches, a pleasure for the eye of the lover.

14. La sabana de Bogota and Chia.

15. Teatro Colon and hundreds of other theters that are constantly showing something.

16. free events in the parks: Rock al parque ( the biggest free rock cfestival in south america) jazz alparque, ballet al parque, opera al parque, cine al parque...etc.

17. Festival Iberoamericano de Teatro- World renknown theater festival

We dont Have:
1. good public trasnportation... though transmilenio is helping
2. A well fitted International Airport
3. subway ot metro
4. hollywood starlets
5. Musical theater tradition.. (but who cares)
6. large amounts of immigrants.
7. and maybe not enough superstar concerts, although we get some.

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:24:

and guys get out of the parque de la 93 and the zona rosa. You clearly havent seen anything yet!

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:49:

Festivales Internacionales de Cine too.... jeje, i'll probably keep coming up with stuff all day!

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:53:

Jardin Botanico... that hosts art exhibits, organical produce market and espectacukar events.

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kernow62 says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:55:

Lucia do they still have cheap symphony tickets one day a week? My wife used to enjoy going once a week to see them play for very little money.

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:55:

Carriage rides through la candelaria at night...

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 10:58:

Plaza de Toros de Santamaria... jeje

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Rubiazo says on Nov 15, 2005, 11:00:

I havent been to the museums in BOG Just didn't have time, but the musems here are AWESOME (and expensive as hell!) I know that Bogota has tons of museums, at least as many per capita as NYC has.

I totally agree with Mario regarding transport, Caslug as far as I'm concerned, NYC's transit system is a shambles. And I've watched it plunge further and further in the 8 years I've lived here. All you guys who are praising NYC's public transit obviously don't suffer with it every day! All in all I vastly prefer the transit in Bogota, even though you are forced to take a taxi after 11pm. I think public transportation is really something that does need to be rammed down people's throats, because everybody wants to drive, but if everybody drives life is purgatory for everybody!

I think that one thing we can all agree on is that Bogota would benefit immensely by having international immigration! There are people from outside the country, but it's mostly from neighboring nations.

Another thing I love about Bogota are the parks. They are absolutely gorgeous and well-maintained. That was one of the things that I didn't expect at all in a 'developing' country.

Improving El Dorado I think would be money well-spent as well. I'm sure thats on the books in the next 5 years. Also, once the Suba and Cll 26 Transmilenios are in effect, it'll make a massive difference in the quality of life in the city.

Re: the air quality, they definitely have to get some of those older vehicles off the road at any cost. Tinto, I don't think you're gonna have any luck moving Bogota near a major body of water! Personally I could never live a good life on the coast in Colombia because it is too friggin hot for me. I will go out on a rainy night in Bogota in shorts and t-shirt and be perfectly comfortable. Sometimes in the day I still get too hot if I'm wearing long pants! The climate is a matter of personal taste though.

Bogota does have lots of excellent theater, as for musical theater, I agree with Lucia, who cares! Broadway is D-E-A-D. You really have to have the IQ of a doorknob to enjoy any of that shit. These days people offer me free tickets and I give them some excuse so I don't have to go!

Little Italy here to me is a major disappointment. I could get much more authentic Italian shit in Canada then I ever could here. The Bronx Little Italy is much better than the Manhattan one, which has been all but swallowed up by Chinatown. Chinatown on the other hand is something that I would really miss moving away from here. Maybe one of these days Bogota will have a Chinatown, who knows?

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 15, 2005, 11:02:

My two cents Like Caslug said, I think it's unrealistic to truly compare Bogota, a regional city at best, to a global center like NYC, LA or London or even a 2nd tier place like San Francisco or Chicago. But what I think BOG lacks before it becomes a truly great city is:

1: Air connections to a lot more places and a lot more international flights.

2: Immigrant communities and more racial diversity

3: Security. Bogota might be a lot better than it was, but it's still a dangerous place compared to London or NYC. The "secure" area of Bogota would fit in most small american suburbs.

4: Rural security, meaning that it's easier and safer to get out of the city to a diverse variety of outdoor and rural activities without worrying about security.

5: It needs to be a DESTINATION for world class performing acts. When it's a HUGE deal that Fat Boy Slim is coming to town, you know you're still living in the sticks.

6: More diverse retail shopping. Bogota has about 50 malls, each with the same 20 stores in them.

7: Better international food. I think this is currently the result of an inability to get authentic ingredients for a lot of foreign foods and also a result of the fact that most Colombians seem very conservative about spices.

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caslug says on Nov 15, 2005, 11:22:

to break it down.. LOOK at what the top 10 cities in world have in common...MONEY&POWER, those type usually gives lots of money to the arts. Nothing like rich, snoppy rich folks giving money(via tax breaks) to museums/art gallery(buying art) and being PATRONS of the arts. That keeps the artist afloat creates a thriving art scene. WALL street is A MAJOR patron of the NYC art scene. Without rich folks, how can an artist sell their painting/sculpture for 1000's of dollars?

Also, it's will be VERY difficult for BOG to become a world class city due to geography, it's in the middle of COL and ONLY really accessible via air. You can't realisticly expect a tourist to take a bus from CTG into BOG. Mexico city isn't a world class city either, for alot of the same reason. Same with Kabul, Afghananstan, or Kiev, Ukraine. But Fly into London, you can a take a train to Paris and if you want you can take a train to Berlin. Fly into Boston, you can take a train to NYC then to DC. Fly into LA and you can drive to SF or SD.

NYC is located between THREE major money/power center PHI/DC/BOS.

As for food, as Mr. H said, COL are not very adventurous w/ their spices, but i think that's because they don't have a large ethnic community that "introduce" new spices to the population at large. If you look at the history of food in the US, it took lots of immigrants years to slowly introduce their ethnic cuisine into american diet. Ethnic food explosion in the US has really only been the last 20 years, especially fusion food.

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 15, 2005, 11:34:

When the ice caps melt... ( and it will happen) NY will be gone first.. Bogota is too high. 2600 metros mas cerca de las estrellas!!!

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elmodefoque says on Nov 15, 2005, 12:06:

lucia, please let me know when NYC is gonna go under, i wanna be the first modefoque outta here, cant' swim!

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Nov 15, 2005, 12:09:

I will go and rescue you Monsieur Elmo :)

engage brain before opening mouth

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elmodefoque says on Nov 15, 2005, 12:11:

i was too damn chicken to get near the water, so i chose to hide behind bushes and played with myself while watching her.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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Avispa says on Nov 15, 2005, 18:23:

I like Bogota.
I just wish it was about 5,000 feet lower to sea level.

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kernow62 says on Nov 15, 2005, 18:49:

Then it would be too warm!

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ws244 says on Nov 15, 2005, 19:09:

Bogota One feels they are actually in Bogota, Colombia and not in cities such as London, Paris, etc which have been ruined and overrun by people and food of every nationality located at every street corner which has managed to completely displace the original heritage and character of the city. So much for diversity, better off going to Moscow, St Petersburg, Osaka, Tokyo which are very much original cities like Bogota and worth visiting. At least Bogota will not be overrun by gringos and my guess is the Colombians will be very happy.

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juanalejo says on Nov 16, 2005, 15:59:

Very Happy!!!!!!!

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shazam says on Nov 17, 2005, 12:55:

what bogota needs... is time to continue on the path they're on...things are getting better all the time. la la

however, i would love it if we had a national holiday designated to WASHING THE BUSES/CARS and SWEEPING THE STREETS. everyone would get to stay home from work, and wash vehicles, clean their patch of street and the next day we could all start off again squeaky clean!

:)

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shazam says on Nov 17, 2005, 12:56:

one more thing bogota would be better if we could get rid of the classism!

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