What is A Paramiltitary Group?

Portena says on Apr 22, 2008, 17:29:

As I understand it the paramilitaries came about to protect landowners and wealthier Colombians from the guerillas like ELN and FARC. The guerillas were kidnapping the wealthier Colombians so they could support the guerilla movement with income from kidnapping ransoms. Later all of those groups got involved in the drug trade as a way to finance themselves. Perhaps an overly simplistic explanation. I think the turmoil that has characterized Colombia's political movements is explained very well by Robin Cook in her book: More Terrible Than Death - Violence, Drugs, and America's War in Colombia. Interesting and well written book.

I feel better! I can smile at it now, I feel better. Ohhhh, better! Gnarls Barkley

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gorgonabob says on Apr 22, 2008, 17:36:

from what i understand.. a few decades ago.. a wealthy land owner was kidnapped by the FARC and held for ransom.. His sons paid up but the guy was not released. The FARC asked for more money and he was still not released, they actually murdered the poor guy. HIs sons, the infamous Castano Gil brothers took revenge and round up the lot (the lot they thought were involved in there fathers kidnapping and murder) and killed them. You got to give these guys some credit. For there actions back then at least. After this they got together with other landowners in the area and set up groups protecting there land and families from the FARC. so were born the paramilitaries. While there motives may have started out all wholesome the paramilitaries turned to other not so savoury activities, drug dealing, murders etc. something like that i think

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Simon says on Apr 22, 2008, 17:39:

The paramilitaries were created to combat the FARC, but now they're bad guys too!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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poco says on Apr 22, 2008, 17:59:

Quote: from what i understand.. a few decades ago

Decades,, no,, much longer.

The Liberals started killing the conservatives over 100 years ago. Things simmered a while then the liberals once again started killing conservatives in 1948. The damn liberals are hot heads and think the only way to accomplish anything is to riot, murder and over throw the government.

I'll say this One more time:

Liberals: FARC
Conservatives: Paramilitary.
Socialist: FARC
Unions: FARC

Want to know the real reason Paras are associated with drugs,,, it's an arm's / money race,, the Para's can't let the FARC be the ONLY group using drugs to finance their war.

Dice and slice this all you want but anything more is simply a detail or clarification.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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romy says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:35:

DavidM- I hope you don't make any conclusions from what is posted here. I suggest reading a book that captures the historical context of the Colombian conflict, which dates back to the way land was assigned by the mercantilistic Spanish colonizers. Many books have been recommended in this site.

Paramilitaries have never had any legitimacy. Just like many illegal activities by the FARC and by the government lack legitimacy as well.

While FARC are known to be involved in drug trafficking, saying they are joined at the hip is wrong because originally drug dealers battled the FARC, thus the creation of paramilitaries. Pablo Escobar had his army, just like other famous cartels had their armies as well.

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:52:

DavidM: Portena and Gorgonabob pretty much gave you an accurate but condensed version of what the paras are. Yes, they are "bad guys", but it is fact that they spawned in response of the FARC. This is one case, where there is no "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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robi666 says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:54:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitarism_in_Colombia

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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slguy says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:57:

thank you. i'm glad to see i'm not the only one who doesn't need an "historical perspective" to know where the chickens roost.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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poco says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:57:

Quote: Paramilitaries have never had any legitimacy

Yes they have,, read your history. At various points they have been not only legal but necessary to keep a man and his family from being killed.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 22, 2008, 20:00:

You are correct Poco. But now, by and large, the paracos are thugs, and not much different than an average gang-banger.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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romy says on Apr 22, 2008, 20:07:

ok, you can ignore the Geneva Convention, I won't

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poco says on Apr 22, 2008, 20:12:

Quote: You are correct Poco. But now, by and large, the paracos are thugs

That's where you are wrong. The para's function as a rural security force in many areas of Colombia. You bet they are needed,, does anyone believe,, that Colombias government controls anything outside the city limits and 100 feet on each side of the road?.

They are the ONLY thing keeping areas safe for people to travel and work. No one believes this and I've lived and traveled the area for 6 years. I am MUCH safer in a small town in the Colombian Hills. LOTS safer. One unjustified murder in 6 years and ZERO bums laying on the street. Who protects the area,, the government,, Ha,,

War zones,, like I said,, just another way to make money. There is a difference in how the FARC / Para's operate but the result is the same,, they kill each other and their collaborators.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Alma del Norte says on Apr 22, 2008, 21:22:

Hey, all you guys being protected by the Paracos! Excepting Kelvin, (I know where he lives), where exactly do/did you live and enjoy this security in Colombia?

La vida es una rutina

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Dolfi says on Apr 23, 2008, 01:03:

Armed groups hired by the rich to opress and kill peasants, unionsts and anything that looks the smallest bit left from the most extreme fascist right is a common fact of colombian history since independence. I don´t think that you can call that selfdefense.

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cali373 says on Apr 23, 2008, 07:24:

The umbrella AUC paramilitary group was formed in the 80's and grouped together loose units of paramilitars units. Paramilitary groups IN RECENT HISTORY were primarely formed to protect the wealthy from guerillas. Even Pablo Escobar had his own paramilitary army (mas) against guerillas and then a paramilitary group (los pepes) were formed to take out Escobar's people.

Paramilitaries were also formed to suppress union organizing and kill/disappear union organizers. You see in Colombia Unions are a target of paramilitaries whether or not they are infiltrated by the FARC.

Throughout Colombian history paramilitarism has been around since independence formed by landowners (most conservatives) to consolidate power and land from colombians who had little land and landless peasants. ( read the story of guadalupe salcedo)

Smile if you are a thinker!

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cali373 says on Apr 23, 2008, 07:25:

It is safe to say that paramilitarism did not solve anything in Colombia but increase violence even though some would say that it made certain areas safe. This is false because it made certain area's safe from guerillas but not safe from everything else including the sadistic murderous tendencies of paramilitaries. In fact is just meant that Uribe had to deal with another illegal armed group (which of course he was involved with). He started legal paramilitary groups called convivirs in Antoquia which were later made illegal because their violent acts could not be controlled.

But then again it is a direct result of the Colombian government's lack of response to the social conditions of Colombia.

I don't undertstand how people can support paramilitaries for doing the same terrorist acts conducted by guerillas. Or support a stronger police presence and rule of law instead of rampant violence and illegal acts. Notice how things are better in Colombia now that their is less paramilitarism and more state security presence.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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kalder says on Apr 23, 2008, 07:39:

I hate Commies. But I also know that the fires of Hell burn bright for the Paras.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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aracne says on Apr 23, 2008, 09:27:

cali 373, that's the most clear and responsible post I have ever read about this topic, here or any other chat. Glad to see someone has so clear mind about something these days.

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diabloblas says on Apr 23, 2008, 09:32:

in the usa it's a liberal police department...the rest are fascist gestapos

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docwilliam says on Apr 23, 2008, 13:36:

Interesting piece by wikipedia

"There's no time to panic"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 24, 2008, 09:38:

bump

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwr says on Apr 24, 2008, 09:51:

What does bump mean? See it every now and then.

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webmanco says on Apr 24, 2008, 09:58:

It means Desi is stressed out. She is doing it on the Cali spammer posts.

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 24, 2008, 10:00:

It's just a comment we add with no ´message to bring the post up to the top of the active page. It's like a little push or a nudge.

As for example, this is a good thread that got buried down on page 5 by the Cali spammer. I just brought back to page 1.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwr says on Apr 24, 2008, 10:01:

thanks

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DavidM says on May 6, 2008, 11:50:

My Conclusion: I guess paramilitaries are like cholesterol. Some are good; others are bad. It depends on their purpose, and how they function.

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robi666 says on May 6, 2008, 14:24:

"Think of Paracos like boy-scouts for gringos." This is the purest PBH's shit.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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manINred says on May 6, 2008, 19:38:

I do not think one can look as paramilitaries as 'good' or 'bad'. It doesn't really work like that. But to think of them as boy scouts for gringos is patently absurd.

I read a quote that claimed paramilitaries never had any legitimacy... that is simply untrue. They certainly maintained a lot of legitimacy in rural Colombia where populations would rely on them for the protection that a weak state could not provide.

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robi666 says on May 6, 2008, 20:54:

If you'd see some fosas comunes like I did, you'd think that they were animals not human being.
Or, better, you'd think about the wealthy families and big Corps using them. And say never ever again.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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