What happens to the original nationality for naturalised US citizens?

mrgizmo says on Jun 4, 2008, 15:52:

It is well known that Colombia as well as other countries allow you to have both nationalities and you are allowed to have two passports, one to show that you're a Colombian citizen and one to show you are a U.S. citizen. In fact if you were born in Colombia, Colombian inmigration will expect you to show your Colombian passport upon arrival. When you leave and arrive to the U.S., you do so with the U.S. passport. I myself have both nationalities and will be arriving in Bogota with a U.S. passport and an expired passport and I know they (DAS) will give me a hard time for not having a valid Colombian passport which I will renew in Bogota (It's cheaper and easier). I still have my cedula as well.

Behind every successful man, there's a nagging woman

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viajero123 says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:00:

A DAS agent once told me you can come back with an expired Colombian passport without problems.

Did you naturalise American and kept your Colombian passport despite the oath? Does it pose a risk for your US-nationality?

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ColombianoGringo says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:04:

My parents and several family members have become naturalized US citizens and has not affected their Colombian citizenship. They still renew their Colombian passports with no problems and even vote in major elections.

I am also a dual citizen, but I was born in the US and claim my Colombian citizenship through my parents.

We all hold US and Colombian passports as well as Colombian Cédula de Ciudadanía.

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Bill Turley says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:07:

My Wife also has a dual citizenship. It depends on the native country's policy Colombia allows it, The US does not. Therefore I can not get a Colombia citizenship without denouncing my US one. Of copurse I would not do than.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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viajero123 says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:15:

i know Colombia has no problem with it, but does the US have a problem if she keeps her original nationality along with the US one?

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ColombianoGringo says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:19:

I guess I'm in a unique situation. As I was born in the US, I've always had a US passport. However, I didn't register my Colombian citizenship until I was an adult. Maybe the difference is that I didn't actually naturalize.

Viajero. I don't think the US cares. My family usually enters Colombia with a Colombian passport and then uses the US passport when returning to the US.

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Gator says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:19:

No!

You can also enter Colombia, as Viajers said, enter Colombia on an expired Colombian passport and renew there-one hell of a lot cheaper. In Knauer v. United States.1163 “Citizenship obtained through naturalization is not a second–class citizenship. . . . [It] carries with it the privilege of full participation in the affairs of our society, including the right to speak freely, to criticize officials and administrators, and to promote changes in our laws including the very Charter of our Government.�

Residence abroad, in and of itself, has no effect on U.S. citizenship and there is no requirement of U.S. law that a person who is a naturalized U.S. citizen must return to the United States periodically to preserve his or her U.S. citizenship.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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rjstuff says on Jun 4, 2008, 16:35:

Actually many countries allow dual citizenship - but it may be more complicated than just renewing your other passport. For example - India gives you a 'citizenship stamp for life' - in your US Passport (costs $250 - basically $50 a year for 10 years- same as visitor's visa fees). India doesn't just let you keep on renewing your old passport (wonder what will happen if some one did - that's a lot cheaper than $250 - It's only $40 for a ten year passport). Other countries do not recognize US citizenship as anything - so my Iranian friend is always Iranian (and subject to their military rules similar to the US selective service requirements). Each country handles it in their own way but its a lot more common to allow dual citizenship - that oath really doesn't mean that much, yes, you are affirming it but then you can turn around and denounce US citizenship also.

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lpdiver says on Jun 5, 2008, 04:13:

Sr Turley,

You can have dual citizenship as a US citizen. I have multiple nationality.

Some countries absolutely will not allow dual nationality. Switzerland is one as I have a coworker in that situation. He chooses to only have permanent residency here in the US because of that. It seems he would lose some retirement benefits by renouncing his Swiss nationality.

viahero...the oath has little meaning in respect to dual nationalities.

t

"cook some rice!"

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aztec says on Jun 5, 2008, 04:57:

My wife is a naturalized U.S. citizen and also maintains her Colombian citizenship. Her Colombian passport is still issued in her maiden name with a notarized stamp from the Colombian Embassy stating that she is married and shows her married name.

She has the identical rights as any other U.S. born citizen. No one can take her U.S. citizenship from her. She can surrender her U.S. citizenship. She can also lose it (US) by consciously and intentionally participating in certain prohibited activities in her mother country.

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guacharaca says on Jun 5, 2008, 07:31:

The US government can not control the laws of other countries on how they react to one of their citizens naturalizing in the US. It purely depends on the laws of the other country. We naturalized US citizens understand that we can never be President of the US (by law) but we have a chance at becoming Governor of California.

ColombianoGringo...Yes registering and naturalizing are different. Naturalizing requires an oath of allegiance while registering assumes that you already made that oath in the past (perhaps at birth). Your US citizenship is safe.

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

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viajero123 says on Jun 5, 2008, 07:37:

i understand Colombia admits dual nationality and naturalisation in another country. But what about the US? The oath says: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen..." If she renews her Colombian passport, which she can, will that be a risk to her US nationality given what she said on this oath? Will the US see her renewing a Colombian passport as breaking this oath and therefore stop considering her a citizen?

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ColombianoGringo says on Jun 5, 2008, 07:46:

Viajero,

This will not be a problem. Many people in my family are naturalized US citizens and still regularly renew their Colombian passports and cedulas. The US does not have the slightest problem with this. Renewing her Colombian passport will have zero effect on her US citizenship. I am positive on this.


guacha, Thanks. I wasn't worried about my US citizenship, but are you sure that a US citizen who naturalizes as a Colombian citizen has to give up their US citizenship? I don't think that is necessarily the case. I will ask a few friends who've moved to Europe.

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Mononoke28 says on Jun 5, 2008, 08:23:

I'm a naturalized US citizen as well and I can have and use both passports, the Colombian one to get into Colombia and the US one to get back in the US. Last time I went to Colombia both, my Colombian passport and temporary cédula were expired, the DAS person did give me a schpill about how I have to get new ones before leaving the country and blah, blah, blah but that was about it. I did get new ones while I was there.

Also, after my US citizenship interview the guy who interviewed me, who was also a marine said to me, "Since Colombia allowes you to have both citizenships, you have to be aware that once you become a citizen and the US goes to war with Colombia you have to be on our side, don't you?" I laughed and then he said "in all seriousness, that's why you're taking the oath, in case of war you have to back the US, you understand?" of course I said yes. =P

Diana

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lpdiver says on Jun 5, 2008, 09:44:

Article 96, Section 2, paragraph b of the Colombian constitution states that a person aquiring citizenship need not renounce their citizenship of origin.

t

"cook some rice!"

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Bill Turley says on Jun 5, 2008, 17:24:

I was told by someone in the Embassy when I was renewing my Passport that it would result in the forfeting of my US citizenship, same if I took a job with the govenment above a certain level. I am a native born Gringo

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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Gator says on Jun 5, 2008, 19:01:

Bill, he is correct if it is a POLICY making position.

Usually the loss of US Citizenship requires the intent to renounce or abandon citizenship. The State Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state, serve in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

BUT:

The premise that a person intends to retain U.S. citizenship is not applicable when the individual:

1. Formally renounces U.S. citizenship before a consular officer;
2. Serves in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities with the United States;
3. Takes a policy level position in a foreign state;
4. Is convicted of treason;

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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viajero123 says on Jun 6, 2008, 03:56:

Anyone know where can one get official and hopefully written confirmation of this?

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Gator says on Jun 6, 2008, 05:56:

Google or go to the US Department of State's web site. I imagine you could also write your congressman or senator. If that fails I would retain an attorney and ask for a written legal opinion.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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aztec says on Jun 6, 2008, 05:58:

viajero123, I have seen the documentation of the exact wording used by Gator. That is my understanding of where we are today with regard to U.S. Ctizenship.

I don't recall where it is listed but I suspect you could run it down via google.

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Gator says on Jun 6, 2008, 07:19:

US Department of State's web site.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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browntown says on Jun 7, 2008, 17:05:

OK, I am not Columbian or anything, I stumbled across this site because I am Canadian and considering naturalising to US and so I am looking for the same answer as you are. I signed up because I felt as though you weren't getting the answer you wanted, so I thought maybe I could help. Canada's laws are similar to Columbia's on this issue. We can have dual citizenship, and do not lose Canadian citizenship when becoming citizen of another country. But I want to be able to use my Canadian passport and vote if I become a US citizen.

I found this:

H.R. 3938 (Hayworth, R-AZ, 29 September 2005) proposes several amendments to the Immigration and Nationality Act:

Naturalized US citizens who did any of several actions in connection with his/her previous country of citizenship (such as voting in a foreign election, using a foreign passport, or serving in a foreign army) would be declared to have violated the renunciatory clause in the naturalization oath and would be subject to criminal penalties -- a fine of $10,000 and/or a year in prison.



Now what I posted above is only a proposed Bill. It has not been passed as a law. So reading the above, if that were the law, you would not lose your citizenship, you would only be penalised. Since this is not the law, right now I don't think anything will happen. But either way, you will not lose US citizenship.

Although, this makes me think that sometime in the future this will happen.

Hope it helped!

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