What happened to the post about Hip Hop in Barranquilla

Rubiazo says on Nov 23, 2005, 22:17:

The Macdonalds culture thread disappeared too But now it's back, maybe it's just taking time with the upgrade, I hope!

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cam0940 says on Nov 23, 2005, 22:43:

I don't know but on the subject, I don't know how well that will work out. My girlfriend is a costena and she can dance to vallenato, salsa, even reggaeton. However the other day I was playing Jay-Z, classic head bobbing music:

H to the izz-O, V to the izz-A
Fo' shizzle my nizzle used to dribble down in VA

She was completely lost. Apparently they do not bob their heads to music in Colombia. And then she tried to dance right? Poor thing. I got a chuckle out of it, but had to hide it 'cause I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

So imagining a whole club this lost.... Then again, I might pay the cost of admission just to get a few laughs.

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Rubiazo says on Nov 23, 2005, 23:53:

My gf likes most kinds of music but she TOTALLY doesnt did urban music at all, she doesnt like any R&B or hip hop. She likes exactly 2 regueton songs and cant stand the rest of it.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 00:43:

OK Rubiazo, so she doesn't like R&B or hip hop. How about rock? I've been in a few pits in my time, and those people are rocking too. It's a different kind of head bobbing, but head bobbing nonetheless. They jump, pump their fists in the air, the music is different but it's the same kind of thing, "feeling" the music. Does your Colombiana do any of that? Or does she kind of just sit there like mine?

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 24, 2005, 07:51:

Now this is an issue. You can dance or at least move to pretty much any kind of music but my wife has to have "her" music in order to dance. Meaning Latin music like salsa, cumbia or merengue. I'll cajole her into dancing to other music but she's never happy about it. No hip hop, rap, rock, or country for her. She does like some reggaeton though.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 08:05:

Bingo, UTC. But when the shoe was on the other foot, and the vallenato band came out with the accordion, there I was trying to learn a few steps and generating alternating applause and laughter. I was open minded and participating in the environment with no hesitation.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 24, 2005, 10:14:

What can I say, Cam? Yeah, they can be a little, shall we say, RIGID?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 12:06:

When in Colombia... The last thing I want to hear is the commercial crap being exported by America and Europe...anything Hip hop or new R&B...nauseates me.

Colombia is rich enough with it's own music, plus the output of the surrounding Carribean areas to listen to that nonsense.


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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 12:11:

You don't have to Culo Don't like it Culo then keep walking pal...No one really cares whether you enjoy the posts or not.

Later Culo.

Trolls abound.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 12:54:

Has to be The last Culote was banned. Now we have Culote-Jaguar...trying to behave...misspelling words on purpose to try come off like he's Colombian. Going out of his way to say he's never left Colombia and didn't know what "Probatin" means.

He's just trying to set us up and then start zinging.

Mario, the problem is if you start banning IPs from Cafes then you've blocked out every other user that uses that workstation.

Pay site, although enticing in keeping these morons out it's going to restrict alot of good info.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 12:58:

Moderators Can you please get rid of this guy...we need to really do something about this jerk off.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 13:09:

Very true This may have to happen. I agree Mario

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 13:11:

"The last thing I want to hear is the commercial crap being exported by America and Europe...anything Hip hop or new R&B...nauseates me.

Colombia is rich enough with it's own music, plus the output of the surrounding Carribean areas to listen to that nonsense."

This is the post that started the back and forth with Culote-Jaguar. Now we all know the kind of person he is, but that still doesn't excuse Pepster talking about Hip Hop and R&B like that. People who use this type of language when describing Hip Hop and R&B haven't heard enough of it to criticize. Usually, someone else who hates Hip Hop plays a sound bite or says "Oh, look at what this one guy is saying" and then the uninformed listener says "Gee, all hip hop must be crap and nonsense."

Reminds me of another familiar story: Foreigner gets robbed/kidnapped/murdered in Colombia. Media puts it in the newspaper/TV/internet saying "Oh, look at what those Colombians did to this one gringo." and then the uninformed listener says "Gee, all Colombians must be violent, drug dealing thugs."

It's the same shit. Motherfuckers piss me off with that. I can show you far, far more creative, constructive, and communicative lyrics in hip hop than all your Elvises, Beatles, and Madonnas combined.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 13:14:

oh Cam come on Dude it's my taste just like your taste is hip hop. For the record, hip hop does not hold a Candle to Elvis, Beatles, Dylan. I mean it's not even music most of the time. Hate to break it to you.

But you can disagree with me but not attack me personally which is the issue.

I'm sorry Cam but you're excusing bad behavior when someone doesn't see things as you do. This is why hate Hip Hop...it's all violent, bragging, nastiness and putting down people.

One big soap opera. Sorry dude...it's the way I see it.

I can't remember the last time a rock musician had another one shot.


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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 13:14:

Madonna? " can show you far, far more creative, constructive, and communicative lyrics in hip hop than all your Elvises, Beatles, and Madonnas combined."

Cam,

I'm game...

I'll even bet you that a hundred years from now...all the hip hop that's popular today will be forgotten and The Beatles, Dylan, Lennon, The Stones will endure.

Perfect example, why don't they play hip hop from 5-10 years ago. Shit, it's all old school, no one will be caught dead playing it on the radio or MTV.

So I wonder how much of a legacy this type of music is leaving behind.

I'm being sincere...I don't like what Hip Hop exports and I think it's the last thing the Colombian Youth needs.

It's my opinion...and I respect yours. I'm always open to debate, as long as we attack the subject or point of view...not each other.
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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 13:29:

Chapman No,

he dabbled in alot of things...caretaker, security guard. He might of played a little guitar but not in a band.

How many times have you heard a rock and roll song totally demean and ridicule another musician. The reason I don't like hip hop is it's total lack of respect for others in their genre. Their justification for it is always some absurd explanation that they reflect the street. I don't know what street that is...but it's one we should try to fix...not rap about with affection.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 13:32:

Mario I agree, alot of it is off the charts.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:04:

Pepster, I'm going to give a general response to the several posts you made.

I seriously doubt that you have heard enough hip hop or R&B to make an intelligent summation of what it's about. Therefore, you are not in a position to call it "crap". Sorry.

When a person or group doesn't know the subject matter, and then makes a judgment that is clearly--for lack of a better word--ignorant, then that person or group should expect to be attacked by those who know better. I bet you can't name 5 rappers, but you're calling hip hop as a genre "crap".

BTW, Culote, maybe you better stay out of this one. I can handle it.

I challenge you to copy and paste any verse of any song you like for lyrical content. Of the top of my head I can do the same with Black Thought, Common, Mos Def, Sean Carter, the list goes on.

If you don't like the grammar that's fine, but it doesn't take away the literary value. Mark Twain wasn't exactly a scholar either, but his literary works are still studied today. A genre that's selling more records than rock will have its place in history. It's just that your conditioned to a different taste. The only time you hear hip hop heads calling rock crap is when they/we counter mainstream music's attacks on hip hop. Furthermore, the violence that was mentioned earlier has nothing to do with the music itself, it had to do with personal conflicts. How many rockers have died overdosing on drugs? In alcohol related accidents? The answer: Far more than have died in non-music related hip hop violence. But nobody wants to address that do they? Because you want to frame hip hop and make it this evil culture because you just don't like it.

The truth is, you could have said you just don't like it. But you're not sitting on the throne of Musical Judgment to say what is crap and what is enjoyable. A lot of people, myself included, grew up with the music in our veins. I know that there are some "artists" who never should have gotten a record deal in the first place. You have an entire spectrum from talented guys to very marginal suspect groups that are very lucky to be in the business. Is this any different from rock? Remember Poison? Point is, given my involvement with the music for the last 30 some years (which makes it almost as old as the rock that you defend--but because of your favoritism rock has a history where hip hop doesn't), an attack on hip hop IS a personal attack. You started it. I think you should retract your statement like a gentleman and say "It doesn't suit my taste." It was your statement that was crap and nonsense, not hip hop as a genre.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:10:

AND, the concept of the battle rap, one rapper against another, started just like that: one against the other, nothing preplanned, just off the top of the head. This was originally the "dozens" which was going on since like the 20's. So don't say that hip hop started that. It wasn't until the early 80s that you started hearing it on wax. The dozens were originally acappella, and were a contest of wit against wit, on the spot, no pen, no pad. But the dozens rhymed, which made them an easy addition to rap. They don't do it in rock because frankly, that group of people never participated in the dozens. But they still do it, they just do it in Rolling Stone magazine and in behind the scene conversation.

It's mudslinging. Even the upper crust, most egalitarian members of society (our politicians) mudsling. And yes my good man, rock artists mudsling too.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:16:

Then you said that it wasn't even music. Alicia Keys plays 7 instruments, Pepster. The Roots are a full 6 piece band. Jay-Z did a concert with a full orchestra. What are you talking about?

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:22:

And finally, you asked why you don't hear hip hop from 5 to 10 years ago. But then, you obviously don't listen to hip hop at all, so what are you talking about? There are two radio stations here that are dedicated to music 5 to 30 years old. There are several clubs you can go to that play nothing but music from 5 to 10 years ago. Every time I turn on the video channel, every 15 minutes there's something that is at least 5 years old. Why? Because that is what laid the foundation for these youngsters today. I will say that there is a problem in rap today. Kids think (maybe like you) that all there is to it is to grab a mike and say any old thing. Not true. True hip hop is an art, and some people try to remind kids that by playing older music. So, the fact that you even asked that question suggesting that rap is a "passing thing" shows how disconnected you are from what hip hop is about, which is exactly why you shouldn't be trying to make authoritative comments about it. With all due respect, you just don't understand what you're talking about.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:33:

I hate to keep going really, but I have a real problem with this. I never once wrote a word that suggested that you had to like hip hop. My point is you have to know hip hop to comment on it. Not once have I insulted your music, I haven't commented on it because I have the manners to respect your tastes. That's what got me going. You and my ex-wife can't understand the difference between disrespecting you because you have different tastes and disrespecting you because you insulted me first. Have different tastes, fine. But don't call hip hop crap, especially when you can't name 5 of the artists. You remind me of all the bandwagon Laker fans here when the Lakers had their little championship run, but half the people couldn't name the starting five. If you don't know who's playing, how can you say what's good and what's not? That sounds so fundamental to me. BTW, I don't remember the last time a rapper had another one shot either. Can you name one? Biggie? Not shot by a rapper, shot by a Crip. Pac? Shot by a Blood. JMJ? Shot by a disgruntled employee on his own label. Let's not get started on disgruntled employee shootings. So... name ONE rapper ever shot by another or at the order of another rapper. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:39:

Cam Cam Cam Dude, why are you taking it so personally? If you said you hated the Beatles and that they had no talent...I'd call you insane and move on. I don't hold the torch for Rock n' Roll, the music stands on it's own.

""I can show you far, far more creative, constructive, and communicative lyrics in hip hop than all your Elvises, Beatles, and Madonnas combined.""

What do you call that? Have you listened to enough rock n' roll to make that sort of statement?

Do you see what I'm driving at? How do you justify taste? You like Hip Hop...man more power to you. I think it's worthless. Respect my opinion and I yours.

Now I've got to go bread my cauliflower...I'm almost done with dinner.

happy thanksgiving Cam....I'll talk to you soon...I'm sure!


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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:43:

But the reality Pepster, is that I know exactly what you're talking about. You hear a handful of songs at the most that seem to have a common subject matter. You decide that you don't like hip hop, not realizing that there are thousands of releases each year, for 30 years straight. So you take the few snippets that you heard and condemn the entire genre, which is, almost by definition, ignorant.

You mentioned earlier Dillon and the Beatles. Rock. Of course, Ozzie Osborne and Megadeath and Alice Cooper are also rock. You know, as a rock fan (and even hip hop fans know--curious how we're more open minded than our rock brethren) that these are subcultures within rock and can't be compared apples to apples.

The Roots are as far away from Onyx as the two can be, but with your untrained ear, you pound away on your keyboard lumping them together, and you're just ethically, factually and technically wrong on 100 different levels.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:46:

ok..you're killing me...I have to go finish dinner Cam, you've made an intellegent argument and I don't mean any disprespect to the hip hop fan...not my intention.

I will consider my words more carefully next time. Doesn't mean I'll listen to hip hop..but it does mean that I'll be more respectful to those who enjoy listening to it.

Take care dude...get off line and start your turkey already!


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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:52:

As a matter of fact Pepster I HAVE listened to a lot of rock. Owned a lot of rock music. Been to a lot of rock shows. Just last week I was at the grand opening of Neil Zlozower's gallery on Sunset and it was packed with artists spanning three and a half decades. Just so happens that my sister is well connected in the rock world. Won't get into that on a public forum. But yes, I have listened to far more rock than I'm sure you have hip hop. So... yes I think I can make more accurate statements about rock than you can about hip hop. And the point is... again... you don't have to like hip hop, but you have to have a critical mass of knowledge before you start critiquing the genre. I don't think you have that. And I take it personal, because I love hip hop. I love it so much, I don't like what some of the kids are doing to it. But that's no different than I'm sure you feel about some of the artists in your favorite genre. Suppose I took the bottom of the barrel groups, held them up, and used them as a justification to say that rock was crap? I would sound like an idiot, right? THAT is my point and that's why I take your comments personally.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 14:58:

A person's food, music, style of dress, language, these things are part of their culture--part of who they are. So, when you attack that it is in fact a personal attack. So when I said I hate it when mofos generalize, I actually wasn't calling you a mofo personally, but rather "those that feel it's OK to make the kind of comments you made". Because those comments would be considered a personal attack by someone who loves hip hop. So as far as I'm concerned, my response to you was self defense, not an unprovoked attack.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 15:01:

Yeah it'll be ready in a few. I am not allowed near the kitchen. The TV, which is located in the living room, has an XBOX hooked up to it so the kids can play. But thanks for the invite, Mario.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 15:22:

Actually I would love to hang out if we were closer by. We can listen to whatever you like, drink whatever you like (except I physically have a problem with tequila), and let the good times roll.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 24, 2005, 15:28:

His head may be as big as all of outdoors but I like Kanye West. Some of his songs are very thought-provoking.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 15:47:

Excellent example UTC. Kanye West's head IS as big as all outdoors, but he is one of the guys I was talking about who actually try to say something in their songs.

Mario the tequila incident actually happened in San Angelo, TX in 1990. Since then, I really believe my brain remembers the smell of it and I physically shy away from it like Superman does kryptonite. I prefer a good beer or merlot.

When in Houston, usually it is only passing through Bush International. However, when we visit Colombia again in a few months, we could arrange to have a layover of several hours if you're interested in dinner or something.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 24, 2005, 19:59:

Well, Cam, as talented as the guy is, he probably has earned his big ego. Anyone who knocks hip hop without listening to artists like him may be in for a big surprise. It's not always just a guy hollering about hos. Gotta watch those stereotypes!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 24, 2005, 19:59:

Well, Cam, as talented as the guy is, he probably has earned his big ego. Anyone who knocks hip hop without listening to artists like him may be in for a big surprise. It's not always just a guy hollering about hos. Gotta watch those stereotypes!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 20:31:

I just donwloaded some kayne west Guys,

I downloaded some Kayne West...Guys..my opinion...it's terrible.

I'll probably never get it..sure I hear that lyrics criticize some of the hip hop lifestyle...but I just don't care for this type of music. Maybe my musical background (guitar player and writer since I was 13). I just can't get into it.

Back to the original comment about why I wouldn't want it in Colombia, if hip hop started to have a positive side dominate that would be one thing. But from what I understand from little cousins that's not exactly the appeal over there.


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cam0940 says on Nov 24, 2005, 21:55:

The object was never to sift through hundreds of artists and thousands of recordings to find something that would be appealing to you Pepster. Sorry, but you aren't the final arbiter of musical quality. Kanye West can go platinum despite your opinion.

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pepster says on Nov 24, 2005, 22:03:

Give me a break The object for me was to perhaps try to randomly find something of value.

BTW, Vanilla Ice went platinum too. Do you equate sales with quality?

I never stated I was an arbitor as you put it. I cannot understand why you and Mario can't understand...that it's only my opinion. I don't care much for Alicia Keys...so what? I don't care for almost anything called Rap so what? It's my opinion guys. It's my opinion that I find it bad, not worth my time trying to listen more of it..I'm not impressed.

If you don't like my kind of music...if you called Rock crap, hey it's your opinion. Life goes on dude.

But, I dig your passion. That's what's important. Character, a strong point of view. Those are the traits that I really look for in people.

BTW, my Dinner came out fabulous...how about you guys?

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Rubiazo says on Nov 25, 2005, 00:21:

My gf's tastes She likes especially classic salsa and classic rock. She also likes most kinds of Colombian music. Apparently every time Fania came down to Bogota to play she was there. Lucky girl, they never went to Winnipeg or Toronto :pppppp. By the time there was a big enough Latino population there to support it it was way too late.

UC, your wife's tastes in music are excellent. That type of music, along with Brazilian tropical music, is my favorite stuff on the planet probably. Unfortunately that music is very rapidly dying out these days. The four of us are kinda out on dinosaur land on that one.

Although it appears that rock is making a global comeback in a big way.

As far as hip hop goes, many people will never hear what is real hip hop and just how good it will be, the same way very few people will never hear any good regueton. The music industry these days doesn't want to sell Chianti, it want's to move tens of millions of units of Coca Cola.

BTW Alicia Keys is NOT a hottie when you see her in person. She just looks good on camera under 10 layers of foundation. And besides, I don't really think men are high on her list as far as sexual preference goes, so forget about it!

In all the time I spent looking for it, I couldn't find ONE place playing hip hop anywhere in Bogota. I imagine there are a few, but it's not an easy find by any stretch. What I saw in the poorer areas was lots of Mexican music and lots of rock, especially heavy rock. In the richer areas they listened to more jazz and r&b and latin pop. And EVERYWHERE they listened to salsa, Cuban music (VERY different from salsa), vallenato, and regueton.

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 07:16:

Mario I misspoke, I just meant Cam really.

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 07:48:

If you're interested in the original question.... Colombian Hiphop History

In Colombia hip-hop is a necessary artistic form of expression for a youth oppressed by 500 year of imperialism. Since the arrival of the Spaniards at the end of the fifteenth century Colombia has been robed of its minerals and natural resources and its people exterminated, degraded or forced to migrate from one region to another. Africans were brought by thousands and enslaved. The Colombian people have never conformed to this abuse, the first to resist were the Indians in the sixteenth century, then the enslaved africans freed themselves and founded the first palenques in Latin America (palenques were villages made up of escaped African slaves). Since there have been many independent political and armed movements and coups, culminating in the absurd war that exists today between the government, paramilitaries and guerrilla groups FARC and ELN, which has lead the country into caos.

The situation in Colombia today is harsh and will probably get worst, but the youth isn’t giving up, their coming on strong with a style of hip-hop and lyrics based a reality worth listening to. “Rap has gotten big, it’s the expression of a youth that doesn’t have anywhere to study, that go hungry and have to rob to survive, because the system doesn’t give them an opportunity, or guerilla or military, any which way, kill.”, says Gustavo, the father a of Konte and Melissa (RIP) MC´s from Gotas de Rap from the neighborhood of Las Cruces known as the birthplace of Colombian rap. Gotas de Rap was one of the first groups to record a full length album in Bogota, threw the help of an NGO, and then tour Europe three times with a play called Opera Rap which depicted the problems of the youth of Bogota. On a more independant note La Ethnia, also from Las Cruces recorded their first album in 94, they has since produced three more records. In Medellin Rulaz Plazko is the pioneer, having produced many records for himself and other groups threw his independent label Alkahuetaz Records. Other great groups from Medellin are Elamarillo, La Tribu Omerta, RH Clandestino just to name a few....

In Cali a very afro city, the relation to hiphop has been evolving threw their strong tradition of afro-colombian music “The majority of the groups over here have also sang “danza”, danced “danza”, that is the afro-Colombian dances, African dances, you know, mainly from the pacific region, and well, threw these roots they started getting into reggae, into beat box, because the sound of beat box is the same as the sound of the drum” says Hugo MC from the group Ghettos Clan. Cali made history in the begining of the ninetees “ The first record that came out of Colombian rap wasnt in Bogota it was in Cali, from the group Codigo Rap, they put out a 45`, it was really good, good MC´s and intresting beats and samples from Pink Floyd and Richie Ray” says DJ Fresh.
Cali is still representing today with excelent MC´s and lots of ruff productions by groups like Mentes Oscuras, Imperio, Ghettos Clan, and a more polished work by Asilio 38, which is lead by Al Roc, an MC deported ffrom Miami in 95, he founded Cali Rap Cartel, thus unifying the Cali movement.

Production in Colombia is a problem because there are almost no DJ´s or producers, this is due to the high cost of turntables, equipment and lack of vinyl records. there are no record labels interested in producing rap, which they see as non profitable and subversive, neither are there disrtbution houses and very few radio programs that air hip-hop. Almost all the hiphop records that come out in Colombia are independant productions of of extremely limited edition (500-1000) a chalenge for these youths that dont come from the priveleged class of the country and have to invent all kinds of businesses to reach their goals.

The DJ´s in Colombia can be counted on two hands. With more than ten years of experience DJ Fresh is the pioneer. He started as a b-boy but seeing that there were no DJ´s that played brek beats he started to spin, in 94 vinyil records stopted being imported to Colombia, as they were replaced by compact discs and since he has had almost no way of buying records, since year after year with the same US beats that he mixes with traditional music..cumbia, mapale, llanero etc. Another DJ that has been around for yers is Fonxs, and for the past few years Kas, who calls himself turnatabalist and is specializing in heavy scratching.


Break is the strongest aspect of hip-hop in Colombia. “here everything started with breakdance, around 84 there was allready a crew in the neighborhood of Las Cruces, they were called The New Rappers, they were like 30.” Says DJ Fresh. Maybe break is so strong here because to b-boy you dont need equipment...or maybe its because of the intense everyday exercise that living in abysmal neighborhoods like Ciudad Bolivar (south of Bogota) implicates. The streets are so steep that MC Natas once told us “Ohh your coming over to the house, all right, but dont forget the mountain climbing equipment”. there are so many good crews between Bogota and Medellin, Colombian b-boys/girls have got to get their respect.
Every friday the crews from different neighborhoods of Bogota come together in front of the movie theater Embajador in the center of the city to get down on the marbol floor. Peña one of the oldest active b-boys is always around to organize and share his knowledge. The most famous crews in Bogota are Supreme, Especial Moves, and Danza Latina. In Medellin the most famous are
Bélicos, Cahoticos and Atomic Rocket’s Crew, this last crew has been around since 90. In 95 there was the first battle between Bogotá and Medelinn and lots since, threw the event HipHop al Parque that the Mayors office organizes every year in Bogota. In 2000 there was a good battle between Bogotá and Full Circle from NYC and in 2001 between the Lunatiks from Spain and Colombia, when Spain got its ass kicked.

In as far as the culture things are complicated. Due to Colombia’s economic and political isolation, the only access to hip-hop has been via the mass media - which offers information that is both fragmented and of commercial nature like gangster rap few are the Colombian hiphopers that know about the positive, creative side of hip-hop. There are only a few hiphop radio shows and almost no oportunitites for the groups to get up on stage to perform with a good sound system. Annually there is only one big concert financed by the government in Bogota. Unfortunately this event is organized by burocrats that are simply doing one homework more of their long cultural agenda.They seek to satisfy the participants of hiphop and the tv channels, but know nothing of the essence of the movement. “ When local groups get on stage the sound is badly adjusted by the engineers, then when the the international group gets on stage, from out of nowhere men appear dragging an extra sound system that exageradly increases the strenght of the music, the engineers wake up and everything sounds perfect.” Says Pepito...... on a more underground note there is an independent festival in Barranquilla called Rapkyia, where hip-hop is shown in all its aspects threw conferences, video projections, concerts etc.

The isolation of Colombia and the lack of information causes the movement to evolve slowly. Its time to break the information blockade between the underground of the first and third world and for Colombian hip-hop and its message to go international. For this to happen, exchange must flow between the north and the south, we invite you to link up with us………

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 09:25:

Cam well we agree to disagree I personally think Colombia should continue developing it's own identity. Being that I feel a strong connection to it being the product of two Colombians, I'd hate for Colombia to be a clone of anyone. I treasure it's difference from the rest of the world and this is starting to erode.

I believe most of what I see in hip hop, especially as of late is the last thing I'd like to see proliferate over there. Hopefully, they will let their own culture and identity prevail.

Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 09:25:

Cam well we agree to disagree I personally think Colombia should continue developing it's own identity. Being that I feel a strong connection to it being the product of two Colombians, I'd hate for Colombia to be a clone of anyone. I treasure it's difference from the rest of the world and this is starting to erode.

I believe most of what I see in hip hop, especially as of late is the last thing I'd like to see proliferate over there. Hopefully, they will let their own culture and identity prevail.

Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 09:31:

But why single out hip hop? I have written before on the influence of North America in fashion, music, even food. Why not put your foot down watching all the new McDonalds being erected? They have 2 TGIFriday's in Bogota for goodness sake. Houston's. KFC. Why not put your foot down with modeling, which is redefining "beauty" based on gringo standards? Why not put your foot down with rock? That too dilutes Colombian culture. Why all of a sudden do you put your foot down w/ hip hop? Is that just the final straw? Is that just the unthinkable? Pink toes can bring whatever they want to Colombia, but as soon as one of these jungle bunnies plays a break beat, you have to put your foot down? That's BS Pepster.

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 09:38:

Why do you assume that? I have stated before how I hate what has happened to Cartagena. I do not care whatsoever with having Burger Kings or Dunkin Donuts over there. Why do you assume that? There I totally agree with you, I do not care for most of the Americanization of Colombia.

Cam, out of curiosity, why do you say "North American" influence...why not American? Canada and Mexico don't seem to be the culprits of this scurge.

Also, are you suggesting a racial aspect to this discussion? Jungle Bunny? What is that about?

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 11:10:

Pink Toes and Jungle Bunnies are as classic as the Hatfields and McCoys. Mexico is included in the N. America because most of the Spanish programming (e.g. novelas) that is considered "quality" are produced in Mexico, if not Miami or Los Angeles. They feature very fair skinned, American looking actors, although 75% of the Colombian population does not look like them. So, when a little triguena girl in Crespo turns on the TV and she sees a fair skinned, super thin, silicon breasted actress that looks nothing like her (or anyone else in her neighborhood) it has the psychological effect of saying "She's pretty, I am not" which is way uncool. In other words, through the TV and magazines (also from MX), beauty and fashion are defined. I have to take a break now, but I'll be back.

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 11:18:

Cam...Ok now we're hitting common ground I am disturbed by the white washing of television programming in south america in general. Here on Para Todos on DirectTV you see the Peruvian news, Ecuadorian, Colombian, Venezuelan...I'd say almost all the time the women are blonde or bleached. I do not know how people put up with that!

I mean if you watch Mexican Television, you start to wonder, where in the hell are the Mexicans?

But that's where the people need to speak with their pocket books. I'd love to see a boycott of Colombian television until they start reflecting the true make up of it's people. I'd love to see that in Mexico!

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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Rubiazo says on Nov 25, 2005, 11:22:

From what GIB said the hip hop scene that is there is much more akin to the old school scene we had in the 70s, which is a side of hip hop few people have seen .

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 11:27:

The author I quoted above cited some of the reasons the movement is slow to develop. It is reminiscent of hip hop's nascent stages in the BX, uptown, and Queens just as you say, Rubiazo.

I don't expect that you are a hip hop fan, Rubiazo. However, something you said earlier makes me suspect you understand the difference between what record companies want to sell (a commercial product) and what a real artist is. I refuse to believe that this is unique to hip hop.

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 11:34:

Mario Canal Sur...channel 420.

Plays the evening news from Peru, Ecuador etc.

It's a hodge podge of news and some entertainment programming from South America.

It can be entertaining sometimes...

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 12:01:

Do you watch Caracol? It's one reason we took on Para Todos...

The amount of commercials is unreal.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 12:06:

Mario Netflix sir...

Changed my life!

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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pepster says on Nov 25, 2005, 12:23:

DaVinci My wife got me addicted to that channel...especially since the DaVinci code specials. Thanks for the heads up.

BTW, wasn't that Rome serious great. Played a little like a soap opera but very good casting. Indira Varma is absolutely stunning.
You should have seen her in the Kama Sutra.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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quindioman says on Nov 25, 2005, 15:18:

negative lyrics?? Canción: dandote vida
Cantante/s: vico c

En pleno público me desmaye,
Por toda la química que había en mí
La gente decía Vico se nos fue
Pues de todos los golpes nada sentí
Solamente de lejos oí la voz de un hombre que no cesaba
Hijo mío que pasa despierta es todo lo que me gritaba
De boca a boca me la dio respiración
Con lagrimas brotando de su Corazón
Su rostro reflejaba desesperación
No era fácil verme mi condición
Y me decía cada vez que me veía en la calle andando
Hijo mío que pasa despierta la droga te esta matando
Hasta que un día tome la decisión de empezar a caminar
Pero como todo el mundo no quería continuar
Y no eran suficientes los consejos de mi padre terrenal
Pero ya había llegado demasiado lejos para regresar
Y en medio del vació se hizo escuchar
La voz que dijo oye lo que dice tu padre celestial

Yo soy aquel que siempre te acompaño cuando te dieron rechazo
Los que se alejaron cuando vieron tu caso
Mirándote por encima del hombro porque no eran como tu
Yo te cuide de aquellos que de frente siempre te saludaban
Pero de espalda se reían y te difamaban
Diciendo que nada valías por que no cuidabas tu salud
Yo te mostré quienes son los traicioneros
Que hasta intentaron robar a tu mujer
Y a los que contigo ganaron dinero
Y al verte caído prefirieron correr
También te di una familia sincera
Que siempre esta contigo en cualquier condición
Y un padre que te ama y al verte morir te dio respiración

Pero yo estuve dándote vida

Yo soy aquel que siempre te acompaño cuando te dieron rechazo
Los que se alejaron cuando vieron tu caso
Mirándote por encima del hombro porque no eran como tu
Yo te cuide de aquellos que de frente siempre te saludaban
Pero de espalda se reían y te difamaban
Diciendo que nada valías por que no cuidabas tu salud
Yo te mostré quienes son los traicioneros
Que has intentaron robar a tu mujer
Y a los que contigo ganaron dinero
Y al verte caído prefirieron correr

También te di una familia sincera
Que siempre esta contigo en cualquier condición
Y un padre que te ama y al verte morir te dio respiración
Pero yo estuve dándote vida

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 15:24:

Nice contribution, quindioman.

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quindioman says on Nov 25, 2005, 15:33:

cam thanks for the comment.
You actually put into words what I have great difficulty in explaining to people that trash hip hop at the drop off a hat, you got your verb on point my man.
Reading from your posts we have similar tastes in hip hop. I had the pleasure of seeing Common live a couple of years ago in London, plus Talib Kweli at the Jazz Cafe when Beatnuts opened and Mos Def made an impromtu appearance....we were in for a treat that night...I saw Pete Rock and CL Smooth there as well.
It was your informed replies to Pepster that inspired me to post those Vico lyrics....BTW good look on the post on Colombian Hip Hop history....I was in Armenia in 94/95 and the hip hop scene was very vibrant, it's very very quiet these days but I know it's still very much alive in Bogota, Cali and Medellin to name a few cities.

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 15:49:

Must have been a good time at the Jazz Cafe. Thanks for your comments. Now I wish you had been online yesterday when it got a little hot in here.

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 16:01:

A) Those are Mexican rappers
B) While we understand the frustration of the author, this isn't necessarily what we're looking for in this debate.

Just watch for now, Culote-Jaguar. Glad to see you defending hip hop, but I think Quindioman and I can handle this. Actually, the discussion is pretty much over anyway.

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 16:16:

No, I'm not trying to put them down. The original thread was about hip hop in BAQ. This led to a direct attack on hip hop itself, and I started defending the artistic value of the music. That meant using U.S. artists, because this is the origin of hip hop. Mexico doesn't really fit into this conversation. But miss me with that "watch your mouth" nonsense.

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 16:30:

Yes Culote. All of the creators of original hip hop were from the USA. This is irrefutable fact. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't artists in other countries: England, Mexico, Germany, even Colombia. But it started right here. Mexican rappers can have their respect, I never disrespected them. I'm just saying, we're talking about hip hop in the USA and hip hop in Colombia. This isnt the time or place to bring up Mexico. And yes, being a gringo is in my blood. Both my parents are from the USA. Your point?

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 16:44:

But you like hip hop? Fucking idiot. I don't even know why I bother.

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cam0940 says on Nov 25, 2005, 16:54:

Yes, I remember that argument too. That was when you were still Cristal. Keep talking, numbnuts. Let's see what other personalities you inadvertently confess to.

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