What are you doing to help the actual Colombian crisis?

Simon says on Apr 19, 2008, 20:56:

"If you are taking sides and promoting war and punisment then you ain´t helping a bit, even in this website haters abound."


Unlike some naive people who think we should all get together with the narcoterrorists and hold hands and sing 'kumbaya', I'm taking the side of the good guys (the Colombian government)!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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webmanco says on Apr 19, 2008, 20:57:

Congresista desmobilizate

enough said

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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billyb says on Apr 19, 2008, 20:59:

"We, colombians all should learn from foreigners."

When pigs fly. Stalin had a term for foreigners that made excuses for his atrocities against his own people, he called them "useful idiots".

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Simon says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:01:

Those rotten apples do not make up the majority of the government or the armed forces.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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webmanco says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:10:

Unfortunally a minority with huge powers within the goverment can hurt and do hurt the country. I for once do not take the rambo approach.

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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billyb says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:12:

" I for once do not take the rambo approach."

Do you mean by this that this one time you are not taking the rambo aproach? Or do you mean "I for one..."?

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webmanco says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:14:

I meant that this is not time to take the macho man stance, kill them all.

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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Monpirri says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:18:

We have another undercover agent inside pbh.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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webmanco says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:20:

List them all

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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billyb says on Apr 19, 2008, 21:27:

I think Going_South is a mole.

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romy says on Apr 20, 2008, 00:11:

"I'm taking the side of the good guys"
hahaha wow, who got to play God in that decision?

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lpdiver says on Apr 20, 2008, 03:16:

The government is as much the problem as the guerillas. Bad guys are bad guys regardless. Of course Colombia is far from being alone in this aspect.

t

"cook some rice!"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 20, 2008, 03:35:

Billyb...I don't think you speak for all Colombians...or Simon either. Or Monpirri. NONE of you guys live in Colombia.
I think it's great what this Dutch lady is doing. I wish I had her courage.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Monpirri says on Apr 20, 2008, 05:19:

Living in Colombia does not mean he or she really knows about Colombia because as you know some live inside of a bubble. It is evident here that we have some Colombians who only know about one aspect of Colombia.
For example, they have an agenda or they want to broadcast left side or pro guerrilla news because that is all they really know about Colombia.
It's very easy to find out how much an individual knows about Colombia here in pbh.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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lpdiver says on Apr 20, 2008, 05:25:

Gee Desi,

Wishing you posessed someones intestines! Never saw that violent aspect of you before!

t

"cook some rice!"

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webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 06:20:

Many live inside a bubble, plus outside the country. :-)


Amor de lejos.................... amor de ..................(for a few) :-)

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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Monpirri says on Apr 20, 2008, 06:48:

Check out all your threads they are certainly have a pattern and I do NOT mean that "El Tiempo" is the pattern.
"Amor de lejos......amor de......" Does not apply in this case and yes some live in their own regional bubble and are limited in resources.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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lpdiver says on Apr 20, 2008, 06:54:

One question...What IS the "ACTUAL Colombian crises?"

t

"cook some rice!"

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webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 06:55:

Parapolitica y Farc

Many people got plenty of resources, the ploblem is that more than often, don´t get the right interpretations from them. (resources). I am full of mistakes, thanks God.

But life goes on, that´s what Jaime Garzon thought, I guess not.

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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Monpirri says on Apr 20, 2008, 07:36:

There is a very large spectrum of resources out there but some just want to disseminate meticulously their own personal or political agenda.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 08:55:

Don´t let threads and posts haunt you.

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 09:21:

i'll freely admit to having gaping holes in my knowledge of colombia...but in my visits, i always try to compare my acquaintences' opinions with those i read here. i consistantly hear "sin FARC, sin paramilitarios". the capacity to ignore cause/effect here always intrigues me.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Alma del Norte says on Apr 20, 2008, 09:28:

Monpirri: "Living in Colombia does not mean he or she really knows about Colombia because as you know some live inside of a bubble."

How tragically true. I know/meet so many Colombians living in Colombian who meet this criterion. They travel everywhere by car and only get out of it to enter the gym, club or centro comercial. Many have never really sat down to listen with a campesino/indigeno and have no ambition to do so. Although I accept that I have perhaps had more freedom to travel than they, it always amazes me that within a couple of years, language aside, I have acquired more knowledge about their country than they.

La vida es una rutina

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Simon says on Apr 20, 2008, 09:33:

"Living in Colombia does not mean he or she really knows about Colombia because as you know some live inside of a bubble."


Yeah, like my cousins who are always telling me "aquí no pasa nada" when I discuss the state of the country with them. Qué creen? Qué uno es pendejo o qué?

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 09:35:

I go easily from strato 1 to strato 6, but I don´t want to be an expert of anything. And to be sincere I tend to give papaya, I am not paranoid at all. :-)

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 09:48:

Simon
Unlike some naive people who think we should all get together with the narcoterrorists and hold hands and sing 'kumbaya', I'm taking the side of the good guys (the Colombian government)!

Well if you are planning on ever living again in Colombia, you or your family, pretty soon will be holding hands and signing "You love me I love you song" with the reinsertados both from Paras and Farc. All courtesy of Uribe.

It is a new law I am in favor.


Why?

I tell you in a second.

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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romy says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:05:

slguy- I'm sorry but that is very simplistic and can't possibly explain the complex situation. If you want to understand 'cause/effect' you need to study the history of Colombia dating back to colonialism.

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Monpirri says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:16:

Webmanco, is Cuybiche an offensive or derogatory nickname? I put together your favorite pet and your favorite word biche together and made the new word.
I however strongly believe that addressing Colombia or Colombians as colombiche is very offensive although you think is a joke created by you for personal ads.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:03:

"slguy- I'm sorry but that is very simplistic and can't possibly explain the complex situation. If you want to understand 'cause/effect' you need to study the history of Colombia dating back to colonialism."

yep. i'm a simple guy, i admit it. i've read for hours here varying viewpoints. what i have heard/read is..

1. while historically FARC began as leftists, they have become simply a terrorist organization, living by drug dealing, kidnapping and extortion. frankly, why anyone cares about their roots escapes me. any political motives they claim today are window dressing and ultimately meaningless.

2. the paras came into being in response to the leftists. plenty of reasons to despise their methodology....but they produced results which improved the quality of life for vast numbers of colombians. additionally, they in good faith negotiated with the elected govnmt, and disbanded as a large organized force.

in paraco strongholds, one doesn't fok around - one behaves oneself, or invites trouble.

in FARC strongholds, children are forced to become terrorists.

i'm too simple a guy to care very much about historical perpectives. i prefer dealing in current realities.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Alma del Norte says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:13:

Slguy - I thought you went off to educate yourself from resources than just PBsH posts and comments. With all due respect, including motives etc., it sounds like the only research you've been doing is from the Miami Herald.

La vida es una rutina

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:21:

sorry to disappoint you...but PBH/the Herald are far from my only sources. if that were true, i'd prolly be of the opposite viewpoint. theres a LOT more anti-para sentiment here on PBH than i've encountered in colombia - but my experience in colombia doesn't include much time outside the cities, admittedly.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Alma del Norte says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:28:

Apart from specific "anti-para" events, in the 2+ estrato barrios of the city, I find it almost impossible to find anyone with "anti-para" sentiments too. This IMO stems from ignorance and insecurity, not from an informed perspective. The fact is: the city-dweller does not, (and in the grand scheme of things), did not suffer very much at the hands of either side.

Those in the slums and the countryside, however, know the truth.

[edited: 39]

La vida es una rutina

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romy says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:30:

slguy-
not even doing a 'snapshot' analysis of Colombia today and ignoring all of human history would your conclusions be true.

"they have become simply a terrorist organization" not true

"living by drug dealing, kidnapping and extortion" true, but not the whole truth. the FARC continues to receive financial backing from people within and outside of Colombia and other financing methods have also been discussed/alleged including foreign governments.

"any political motives they claim today are window dressing and ultimately meaningless." your opinion I guess, which you are free to have

"plenty of reasons to despise their methodology" I agree, as well as many FARC and many governmental tactics I believe to be immoral.

"improved the quality of life for vast numbers of colombians" I would suggest they improved the life of SOME Colombians. While worsening the lives of others, mutilating some, and killing many.

"they in good faith negotiated with the elected govnmt, and disbanded as a large organized force" simply not true

"in paraco strongholds, one doesn't fok around - one behaves oneself, or invites trouble" Perhaps true. Evidence seems to indicate this is also true within 'FARC stronholds'. I guess you obey whoever is holding the gun, no matter what they're asking you to do (including voting apparently)

"in FARC strongholds, children are forced to become terrorists." Perhaps, some truth to this, HRW found 10% of their sample (that is inherently biased but whatever). Definately not ALL children like your statement seems to imply.

And you didn't even deal with half of the 'current realities'

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:35:

slguy...

I don't think it is wise to overlook the past. While the FARC's ideology may or may not have changed (and while it may not be relevant anyway), it is still important to know how things developed.

Your summation of the paras is a little simplistic as well: in para strongholds massacres and assassinations are/were commonplace whether one behaves himself or not. Paras are/were more deeply involved in the drug trade than the FARC. Peoples lives improved as a result of the paras, umm...lets see, most people ackowledge that the Paras were guilty of the majority of atrocities committed, so I think many will disagree with you on that point.

Ignoring the past is a convenience for some people.

All actors share blame for Colombia's problems, including the US.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:51:

p.s. I am not a fan of the FARC

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:53:

sorry, just saw that romy pointed out much of what I had to say...

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:58:

slguy: way more people on this site oppose the FARC over the paras. But arguing for one over the other is perverse in my opinion.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 12:39:

american: there are still mafias in the US. Not to the degree of the italian mobs possibly, but believe me...they exist.

I agree that a military solution is only a short term solution.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 14:08:

i don't really intend defending the paras, although it may sound it. both organizations, AUC and FARC, commit despicable acts, and colombia would be better off if neither existed.

my original cause/effect statement i stand by...would the AUC have come into existence absent FARC? which makes the AUC a reaction, not a root source. yea, yea - you guys will argue the same is true, i know, of FARC....but no one i ever spoke to truly believes that FARC today embraces any forlorn hope of accomplishing any of their historic goals. so, exclusive of perverse delight in terrorism and financial gain, FARC has no real reason to exist today. and absent FARC, the rightwingers are anachronisms, too.

as to my view being too simplistic? very possible...but as near as i can tell, spending tons of time bemoaning/blaming historical conditions for current events is a loosing proposition. better to examine current conditions with an eye to the future. my grandaddy was a horse thief...i'm glad i'm not in danger of being hung for it.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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poco says on Apr 20, 2008, 16:29:

Quote: more people on this site oppose the FARC over the paras. But arguing for one over the other is perverse in my opinion.

Large areas of Colombia would be a living hell if the Paras didn't exist. Pablo Escobar would have killed hundreds more if the paras didn't exist. There would be ZERO security in most,, if not all rural areas if the paras didn't exist.

Cities,, ha,, until Uribe took a firm stand the only thing holding the social fabric together was the paras.

Quite frankly,, the liberal's supported the FARC,, just like they supported Chavez.

You need to quit believing and reading NGO's

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:51:

poco: my sentiments are echoed by the US government (not just the NGOs).

Yes the paras, funded by another cartel, helped take down Escobar though they did not act alone. And they continued to carry out atrocities long after he was gone. And, oh...big surprise, they took over his narcotics business. Holding the social fabric together, man, tell me another joke. The paras were just a bunch of swell dudes, slightly misunderstood maybe, but top notch. Security in the rural areas...I have friends that completely disagree with your idea of security.

The liberals support FARC? Which ones? Uribe? I thought Uribe (independent liberal) was against the FARC. Or maybe you mean his vice president (liberal), but wait...I thought he was against the FARC as well.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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romy says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:19:

Lcacique- why even bother? those statements were ridiculous...

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:23:

I should know better...

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:27:

Abril 20 de 2008

"Silla vacía con retroactividad y sólo cuando haya condena ejecutoriada": presidente Uribe

http://www.eltiempo.com/politica/2008-04-20/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR...

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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docwilliam says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:49:

"There would be ZERO security in most,, if not all rural areas if the paras didn't exist."

Again, I am no expert on Colombia but one thing that I have observed is that there are rural areas in which I can travel and the Colombians, who live there, tell me it is because of the "paras". Colombians are also very kind as to warn me "where not to go", places where the paras or Gov. Mil. are not present.

So what is the answer? If all the paras are removed, will FARC reclaim control? Would this be better or worse, for Colombia?

I do not know the answers to these questions, all I know is that if there are Government troops or the paras, there is relative security.

"There's no time to panic"

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:13:

docwilliam is echoing what i hear repeatedly from colombans...thus my position.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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billyb says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:24:

"Billyb...I don't think you speak for all Colombians"

Gee, and here I was under the impression that I did.

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:33:

me too! que paso?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Lcacique says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:34:

The growing safety in rural Colombia has more to do with the fact that Uribe has succeeded in increasing the state presence in many areas.

However, I am sure that some individuals welcome the paras (wait...I thought they demobilized, slguy), feeling that it will bring a lessening of violence to the community as a result of less fighting.

And for foreigners, of course it is safer. The paras have nothing to gain from messing with foreigners.

However, in my travels through parts of rural Colombia, I have heard very different stories. Thus my position. (I've heard plenty arguments on both sides...and many more where people claim that they do not appreciate either group).

Nevertheless, they are terrorist organizations...and private armies do not answer to the people, so again, I think they are extremely detrimental to the country.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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slguy says on Apr 20, 2008, 21:14:

i'm pretty sure what i said was "disbanded as a large organized force", NOT demobilized.

governance is much like nature, in that they both abhor a vacuum. in the absence of an effective federal force, the paras stepped in to combat the FARC. as i said initially, their tactics became/are despicable, but the paras never sought to overthrow the govnmt, unlike FARC. had the govnmt been stronger, or better yet, FARC never been born, there never would have been the vacuum the paras sought to fill, however heinous their tactics.

i still haven't seen a credible rebuttal of my cause/effect theorum...only folks calling my viewpoint siimplistic. until someone can demonstrate credibly that AUC was inevitable (a standalone evil), i'm gonna continue to believe that absent FARC, the paras would never have organized, so the root evil (w/out absolving AUC atrocites!), is FARC.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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poco says on Apr 20, 2008, 21:21:

Quote: The liberals support FARC? Which ones? Uribe? I thought Uribe (independent liberal) was against the FARC. Or maybe you mean his vice president (liberal), but wait...I thought he was against the FARC as well.
=========
Pretty much all the liberals / socialists are backed by the FARC. This includes Unions. It does not take a rocket scientist to determine some union organizers are FARC,, and NOT just associated, FARC members,, and,, despite the protection,, they get themselves killed,, who knows,, maybe nothing to do with union activities,, maybe drug running or money laundering.

Uribe,, independent,, liberal,, yes,, but why the harassment from the left :>)

Six years ago,, Ingrid Betancourt was helping the FARC acquire elected political power. I think one of her parties only victories was the mayor of San Vicente del Caguán. The town was the capital of the FARC Free Zone.


This war is political.
Conservative: Para'a , AUC
Liberal: FARC
Socialists: FARC
Communists: FARC

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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tomtom33 says on Apr 21, 2008, 02:27:

"Nevertheless, they are terrorist organizations...and private armies do not answer to the people,..."

From what you write about the US, it seems as though you don't feel that the US government answers to the people either. Is there anywhere that, in your opinion, the government answers to the people?

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tomtom33 says on Apr 21, 2008, 04:21:

There will be peace when there are no humans. Not before.

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kalder says on Apr 21, 2008, 04:52:

I understand that the paras weren't even very good at fulfilling their remit, ie: to combat the FARC. I gather they went out of their way to avoid any meaningful military engagement with them at all. Heroes to a man when it came to cutting up pregnant women with chainsaws, but somewhat lacking the proper martial spirit when it came to a real fight.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 21, 2008, 05:02:

Very good asessment, kalder.

I can't for the life of me imagine what redeeming value or what virtue can anybody find with these mercenary asassins and terrorists. Any seeming "pacification" of an area is bought with rivers of innocent blood.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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webmanco says on Apr 21, 2008, 05:10:

Two wrongs does not make one right

From a barrel of shit to another barrel... just a bigger one? No thanks. (Robbi) on the pbh handles copyrights

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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kalder says on Apr 21, 2008, 07:03:

Absolutely Desi.

It puts me in mind of Tacitus' remark about the Roman 'pacification' of Britain: "They created a desolation and called it peace."

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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slguy says on Apr 21, 2008, 07:19:

ok...i know when i'm beaten. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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diabloblas says on Apr 21, 2008, 08:03:

it's always the ones who never witnessed combat who want to go to war

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Lcacique says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:08:

tomtom33: you are absolutely correct about your assessment of my argument. I have said that "the people" do not control the government. However, I did acknowledge that "the people" at times, as you suggested, do come together and make a difference and enact change.

You indirectly raise a valid point, that Colombia's military had at times in the past been used against the people. Even in the recent past, their human rghts record was not very good (i.e. 70s and 80s, if I'm not mistaken). And if the military is in the hands of a corrupt government, it is equally dangerous (not claiming that the current government is, I'm just talking in general). Nevertheless, it is easier to solve that issue than the mess that results from individuals creating right-wing terrorist organizations that on the one hand protect the lives of some (arguably a positive, though I disagree) but on the other hand kill many other citizens indiscriminantly and partake in a variety of other illegal and/or destabilizing activities (absolutely a negative).

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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cali373 says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:29:

Simon it is interesting that you mention the Colombian as the good guys while 51 members are in jail while they are under investigations for being involved with Narco-terrorists. check the posting here on PBH.

As far as the civil conflict in Colombia, in 5, 10, 15 years from now we will still be discussing this topic because there is NO military solution to the conflict and only those of us that are NAIVE still don't know this, choose to ignore it, or just plain ingnorance.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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jack_jason says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:31:

"We, colombians all should learn from foreigners. "

In accord to the above statement, I believe that People from the states are not being treated as foreigners!

This is just spanglish, please do not correct me

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Lcacique says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:47:

jack_jason: "In accord to the above statement, I believe that People from the states are not being treated as foreigners!"

Can you expand on that...the original statement was about a woman from Holland...anyway, I am just curious what you meant by your statement.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 22, 2008, 01:45:

diabloblas says on Monday April 21st, 2008 8:03:

it's always the ones who never witnessed combat who want to go to war

-Absolutely false. George Bush was shot down in the Pacific during WWII as a combat pilot. John McCain was shot down and held prisoner for years during Vietnam. Adolf Hitler was a combat veteran. 100s of other examples possible.

-If you are refering to just "average Joes", the biggest supporters (proportionally) of the current war in Iraq are current active duty military. I haven't met too many combat vets who don't support the current war. And yes, I know several.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 22, 2008, 02:57:

My input on this thread will remain marginal as both Romy and Lcacique have expressed simillar pov's. I'd like to point out something that strikes me as the most curious thing about American mainstream culture, just because its the only place where I've heard such innacuarcy: Equating socialism to liberalism...I must be missing something big, because as far as political and international relations theory is concerned that's...well, just wrong (to say the least).

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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docwilliam says on Apr 22, 2008, 17:52:

RJ, most of the Presidents, of the U.S. were combat Vets.

"There's no time to panic"

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billyb says on Apr 22, 2008, 20:00:

So basicaly you are saying Diablo is full of sh!T???

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docwilliam says on Apr 22, 2008, 20:13:

No, I believe that my ref. was towards presidents', as leaders.

"There's no time to panic"

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manINred says on Apr 23, 2008, 00:37:

Disecting rural Colombia is a very difficult task. There are many regions with guerrilla and paramilitary support. State presence in Colombia has clearly over the past few decades been pathetic at best, and so the paramilitaries and guerrillas have maintained legitmacy in various regions due to relative order that they can offer, despite their crimes against humanity, etc...

The dynamics of the boundaries of legitimacy are ever-changing, and now is no different, although it seems as if the state is gaining a stronger foothold and expanding its presense in rural areas traditionally left to the dogs so to speak.

As for guerrilla vs. paramilitary.... it's all much of a muchness really: the leaders are murderous scum for the most part, and the core is made up of ignorant, desperate and misguided Colombians. Neither can claim moral superiority over the other. Paramilitaries statistically have committed more massacres over from 1994-2004, and seem to be organizing again despite having 'demobilized'.

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 23, 2008, 00:48:

Liberals are not necessarily socialists CK. A lot of us gringos equate the two. In many ways, a Libertarian could be considered "liberal", but he is certainly not socialist. In the US, most liberals will not refer to themselves as such. They use the term Democrat. A vast majority of them are socialist though. That means, they have a fundamental belief that the government should and can take care of people better than the individuals themselves. A Libertarian, though socially liberal, does not believe in the government looking after individuals. He then is not socialist - perhaps quite the opposite.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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diabloblas says on Apr 23, 2008, 07:33:

i'm referring to guys on this site like you robertjorge...

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 24, 2008, 00:24:

Oh, ok. So it is personal then diabloblas. Sorry I haven't seen combat. I didn't know it was required to be in combat, to have an opinion that sometimes war is warranted and necessary. Obviously I don't make the decisions - but my mere opinion that war is an unwanted necessity sometimes is then wrong.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 24, 2008, 09:35:

another one...bump

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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webmanco says on Apr 24, 2008, 09:42:

did not I read that the actual Pope was a Nazi?, does he want war?

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/a-colombianos--encounter-with-th...

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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sloopskipper says on Apr 24, 2008, 10:46:

Robert Jorge says on Thursday April 24th, 2008 0:24:

"Oh, ok. So it is personal then diabloblas. Sorry I haven't seen combat. I didn't know it was required to be in combat, to have an opinion that sometimes war is warranted and necessary. Obviously I don't make the decisions - but my mere opinion that war is an unwanted necessity sometimes is then wrong."

You don't have to be a duck, to know something of ducks.

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docwilliam says on Apr 24, 2008, 11:06:

The Pope was not a Nazi. Please support that statement with ref. from sources other that Anti Catholic, Hate monger web sites.

"There's no time to panic"

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billyb says on Apr 24, 2008, 18:28:

So by diablo's nitwit logic, only combat veterans should be allowed to vote in the upcoming elections?

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docwilliam says on Apr 24, 2008, 18:38:

Everyone cannot be a combat Vet.

Many combat vets wish they never experienced what they experienced.

We need everyone to be (legal) participants in Democracy. And I mean NEED.

"There's no time to panic"

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poco says on Apr 24, 2008, 21:05:

Webmanaco Quote: did not I read that the actual Pope was a Nazi?, does he want war?

People,, please understand,,

PBH is lucky to have such a knowledgeable individual posting their positions, thoughts and insight,, I consider myself lucky when beholding the enormous intellect that goes into the posts.

Anyhone questioning these revelations is risking having their IQ raised above the double digit level.

Webmanac serves as the PBH presence in Bogota and is instrumental in advising the Colombian Government on how to subdue the FARC while assuring no national tree is disturbed and no anus is irritated.

Webmanacos credentials are impeccable,, the accomplishments impressive,, both the ELN and AUC have showered praise on WEBMANACO and Webmanaco was voted the person most likely to share a exhibition booth with Pee Wee Herman.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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webmanco says on Apr 24, 2008, 21:30:

it is that webmanitics

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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