Weapons for Self Defense

maraca says on Jan 13, 2006, 04:18:

I cant beleive some of you are this silly.

Albatross says on Jan 13, 2006, 04:47:

Go back to sleep... .

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

Albatross says on Jan 13, 2006, 05:02:

. I have no desire to kill anybody... firing on someone would be a last resort. However, if someone pulls a knife on you, and you pull a gun, then they walk away... a loaded gun is definitly a deterrent.

While I agree that "just giving them the money" will work most of the time (it worked for me). But what if they get pissed because you have less cash on you than they expected, or if you can't get tons of cash from your ATM card ?

What if they just feel like killing a gringo tourist ?

I'm sure that there are plenty of people (alive and dead) who wish that someone on one of the planes on 9/11 had a gun.

Also, it's been awhile, but I was trained S.P. in the U.S.A.F, unfortunately, I can't exactly walk around Colombia with an M-16.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

elmodefoque says on Jan 13, 2006, 05:35:

I’m sitting here, soon to b this is a better place for my comment
I’m sitting here, soon to be in Colombia and planning on also visiting cachaco territories (Medellin, Bogotá, and Cali) and to be honest after reading all these kidnapping and ATM robberies and strangers following you from hotel and other cars pulling behind you and guys rushing in with guns, and all these crazy shit, I’m beginning to get a little paranoid about visiting cachacolandia, why would I wanna go to places like that, leave me in my filthy noisy but extremely safe corrocnho cities like barranquilla and cartagena where my biggest concern is getting too damn drunk and tripping in one those uneven sidewalks and busting my head.

elmodefoque says on Jan 13, 2006, 05:46:

I don’t know about you guys but for me some Colombian women are hot, but NOT that hot that I would place my life in danger just to get a piece of that action. Listen, if you’re into Latin women, gotto Hunts Point the Bronx. I personally prefer blondes, women from Sweden but I’m not gonna go over there and put my black ass in danger, I could just see myself getting chase by a bunch skin heads running down Fuckenheinmmer Street, Stockholm.

haji says on Jan 13, 2006, 05:59:

YES The best advice is what gib said if you are trained in anything practice it.I have found its best to practice your whole system, but pick some techniques that you feel your best at and perfect them so they are second nature.From what I've see here as far as robbery and shooting most are up close so practice hard, and when they try somthing feed them their weapon. FOr the most part though I feel its about how you carry yourself here, make eye contact, walk upright,let them know your aware but, at the same time dont be paranoid.and you wont have problems.Oh Yeah one more thing think before you act .

poco says on Jan 13, 2006, 06:07:

Try kind words Your only defense will be your wits,,, hummm,,, because this has been discussed often and any kind of weapon can get you in trouble ie: Illegal,, I’d say you will be defenseless.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

NewBoy says on Jan 13, 2006, 06:34:

Albatross Tourists can't carry legal guns in Colombia, an illegal one is an automatic 6 month jail sentance if you shoot somebody with it, minimum.

Also you don't sound the type of person who should be carrying a gun, if somebody pulls a knife on you, you shoot him and aim to kill him, not point it at him and hope he goes away.

Albatross says on Jan 13, 2006, 06:40:

Poco... Excellent picture

Newboy... you might be right, I don't seem to have much of a killer instinct.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

maraca says on Jan 13, 2006, 07:06:

Go back to sleep??? You are just completely out of your mind!

I totally agree with tinto. If you are going to be scared all the time and thinking that you need some kind of weapon to survive, you better stay where you are or pick a different place where you can really enjoy your days.

I wonder:

1. Shall we all buy guns if we are visiting NY?
2. Shall we think that everywhere in the US is as Michael Moore says?

La ignorancia es atrevida.

jaramillo says on Jan 13, 2006, 07:29:

Hey Elmo, that would probably be Fucksgatan street. By the way, In Medellin we used to remind guys, when they got a gun, to file the sights. That way it hurts less when they stick it up your ass.

maraca says on Jan 13, 2006, 07:30:

Right... I am sure most of the time we just shut up and say to ourselves "there it goes, this is just another ignorant foreigner". So youre right, it doesnt worth the time. Just hope he has a wonderful time and comes back to his paradise with a bigger smile.

Gator says on Jan 13, 2006, 07:32:

You Will Have Two Unique Experiences... 1. You will be one of the very few gringos to be a guest in El
Modelo prison and hopefully you will met a nice man to take
care of you.

2. Hopefully, you will be the second person to be faster than a
speeding bullet.

3. If you get into a situation where you can't pull a needle out of
ass with a John Deer tractor it's crunch time. Listen to your
pucker factor and then let panic be your guide.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Crazy4Cali says on Jan 13, 2006, 10:22:

How does the saying go? If you're going to be dumb enough to pull a gun,
you'd better be smart enough to use it.

or

Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to put a hole in.

The worse thing you can do is pull a gun with no intention of killing someone. That just gives the other guy the chance to take it and use it on you. As GIB says, you have to train constantly in whatever means of self defense you plan to employ. If you just buy a gun and stick it your belt, you're more likely to just shoot off your family jewels pulling it out in all the excitement.

Boy, the locals will get a kick out of that (as they wait for the police to haul you to jail).

landcruiser77 says on Jan 13, 2006, 10:56:

the clown said:you are a moron with gun best defense SHUT YOUR MOUTH A ND ENJOY the ride

£æ

rocinante says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:16:

I didn't make it past GIB second sentence in post #3, "First rule of self defense is that you use what you have every day in every hour which is your body parts"

It seems that he didn't mention "brain" anywhere in that body parts list.

The best defense in any fight or altercation is avoiding the situation to begin with. If you don't understand this you never get past "White Belt" in any respectable martial arts.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

elmodefoque says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:28:

guys, if all fails scream like a 5 year old girl.

rocinante says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:31:

GIB Like my post clearly stated - I didn't make it past your second sentence.

This was a test and you scored low on the brains part (which is the only thing that could be tested on this forum).

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

rocinante says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:38:

Who said Karate? Notice how you never see Kung Fu guys fighting in the street, getting robbed, but street fighters are fighting and killing each other all the time. I wonder why?

Is that an adam's apple in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

caslug says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:46:

generally using martial arts in a street fight.. will get you beaten up faster. having taken martial for 5 yrs and getting in or seen lots of street fights when i was younger. There's no rule in fighting in the real world. It's not "clean" as in the studio with NO rules(no eye gouging, no going for the groin, wait for an opening etc.,). It's very fast and confusing. I notice that the guy who generally wins is the guy who is the MOST crazist/violence(ie, have a killer/violence instinct).

SO unless you have that in you or capable of that in a heartbeat, you will generally lose. UNLESS you fight with another pansy! LOL! Then both of you will circle around talk shit and don't throw punches. LOL! Also, i notice one of the HARDEST thing for a person to do(outside of training/sparing) is to MENTALLY able to THROW the first punch or shot. Most of us DO NOT have the reflexes(even with training) to dodge or block that first punch at very close range. The ones that DO are guys that GET INTO FIGHTS ALOT(they have practice). All the fights i've seen is one guy sucker punching or breaking a bottle of the guy's head WITHOUT warning!

Ironically, what all those years of martial arts taught me was DONT FIGHT UNLESS YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER. THEN fight "DIRTY"! go for the eyes, throat, or groin and use ANY object you you think can harm someone(ie, rock, stick, pen, etc.,). DONT FIGHT FAIR.

But the BEST thing is to AVOID bad situation, either by running/walking away or talking your way out of it.

Albatross says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:57:

"if all fails scream like a 5 year old girl" Leave it to Elmo to come up with another odd visual...

Anyway, I suppose I started this post because I'm pissed off at getting robbed. Unfortunately real life is seldom like the movies. (where I woulda kicked ass and left the guy with a broken nose at least)

I guess it's true: if you pull a knife or gun you gotta be ready to kill someone.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

elmodefoque says on Jan 13, 2006, 11:57:

caslug, you got that right, the best way to fight is like a retard, you kick, you bite, you punch, you spit, you scratch and you curse all at the same time.

elmodefoque says on Jan 13, 2006, 12:09:

While us he man type guys sit here debating deferent methods to use so we don’t get our ass killed or beat up, my wife just called me by the pool of a spa, I’m paying for, in Medellin enjoying a balmy nearly 90 degree temperature, getting ready to hit Parque Lleras later this evening.
Sometimes is better to be a broad!

tomtom33 says on Jan 13, 2006, 13:56:

Elmo Will she still be there on Wednesday? That's when I hit town. I enjoy Parque Lleras as well. Except that it's difficult to score there. Those chicas don't need the money. Give me the street girls on Calle 53 in Centro any day.

poco says on Jan 13, 2006, 15:35:

Never take a knife to a ??????? This would be a nice knife to carry,, but not in Colombia,,

It has smooth lines which will make it easier to insert up ones anus,,, however,, it is an automatic and could be accidentally triggered upon removal,,, OUCH !!!!

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

haji says on Jan 13, 2006, 16:45:

Gib A friend of mine trained in Krav Maga,it was great .Him and I had alot of fun in the prison we worked at,the only problem was we were always sent in first LOL anyway,I enjoy your post and your staight forwardness.Bu8t then again I guess we think along the same lines.

ARMacleod says on Jan 13, 2006, 17:10:

Are you kidding? Ever country is so different. What has a low life in Colombia to lose if his attempt goes wrong?

What have you to lose if your attempt to thwart his attempt goes wrong?

You Albatross, are not in New England. New York or new Hampshire, you are in a country which does not recognise the niceties of normal civil or statute law. You are in a country where everyone is looking out for his/herself, and that includes the political, police and civil service.

Advice; live with the system , or, go home.

James.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

jay1234 says on Jan 13, 2006, 17:13:

Self-defense The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club...

dwmte says on Jan 13, 2006, 19:28:

heh, james....when did you get back? and albatross...i learned something from an aikido fanatic friend of mine regarding defenses...his suggestion was that we always make a smile our first line of defense.

if i had had a weapon in colombia, with all the wiere...really wierd situations i found myself in, i would have been dead after the first round.

dw

jalf12 says on Jan 13, 2006, 19:47:

Carrying Weapons I once got a ride with a professional driver/bodyguard in Bogota. I asked him if he carried a gun. "No gun", he said, "they just get you into deeper trouble." What I got out of it was this; if you pull out a gun the situatuion goes from win-loose to die-live or worse; die-die. I definetly know how you feel though Albatross. I've never been robbed in Colombia (knock-on-wood), but even when my wife starts talking about potential robbers I just feel like kicking someones ass. In the end I take her advice and stay out of the ghetto, keep my mouth shut, eyes forward, and peripheral vision on high alert. I agree with Gibs and others; walk tall, stay alert, and remember whatever you have in your wallet is not worth your life.

BrassAdonis says on Jan 13, 2006, 19:57:

Watch your weapons!!! I watched a documentary were a man was killed by a police officer. The other officers helped as and shot the guy in the middle of the street in day light. They thought the camera man from the news had stopped shooting. The officers were searching the man and became anger when they found out he had a gun hidden on his body.

The people standing there seem to be in disbelief and showed they were disgusted but couldn't do much at the time,,, it all happen too quickly.

anonimo says on Jan 14, 2006, 06:25:

Re If you feel that you need to "arm" yourself for vacation here.. why would you want to come here??

If I was expecting to be attacked / robbed if I went somewhere, I don´t think I would choose to go there... only seems to be common sense to me.

Gator says on Jan 14, 2006, 07:30:

The Chocolate Gun Theory. You better hope it's chocolate. If you pull it and don't use it get ready to eat it.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Cartagena Hooker says on Jan 14, 2006, 11:35:

I am entertained As usual the responses to this juvenile post reflect the common sense of the responders. As a retired police officer who carried a firearm for over twenty years and did indeed study martial arts in the US and Korea. It is clear that if you look for trouble you will find it.
People who think they want to carry weapons do not understand the responsibility and problems that go with that possession. Are you willing to trade a bloody nose or the loss of a hundred dollars, for a jail term, a law suit or how about death. Gee I think I will go back to martial arts two hours a day to get in shape for a robery in Laguito. Pleeeease
Oh! and brassadonis re-take 9th grade english before you post bull.

Gator says on Jan 14, 2006, 19:18:

Not That Hard On the Street, But Legally...
You have to go through the army to complete the purchase of a firearm. DAS, to the best of my knowledge, is not involved legislative authority which regulates the possession of firearms by civilians is Industria Militar (INDUMIL). INDUMIL is also the legislative authority that regulates the sale of firearms and firearm supplies to civilians.

Licencing Requirements:

Applicants must be over 18 years of age with full citizenship or have Colombian cedula; A form provided by Industria Militar must be completed; authenticated photocopies of the applicant's identity card and police record must be presented; Proof of the need to possess weapons for the applicant's safety and protection must be provided; and medical certification of mental and physical fitness to use weapons must be presented; persons known to be suffering from chronic alcoholism, dependence on narcotic drugs or psychotropic drugs may not receive a permit and you must complete an approved firearms training course (Certificado Maneso de Armas.)

I have no idea if the above requirements are still in force or accurate. I do not have a permit because I do not carry on my person-just keep in the house/apartment or, occasionally, in the car. I did ask my brother-in-law (retired colonel military and at one time in his career was the military police commandant of the military district-Bogotá.)

His reply was if you are a gringo watch out but he also said the percentage of people who do have a firearm with them is very, very high. BTW, you shoot and or/kill someone with a gun and do not have a license there is a mandatory jail sentence of six months. This applies even if it is self defense. Under Decree No. 3664 of 1984, article 1 provides for an imprisonment period of between one year and four years and confiscation of the weapon in cases of illegal carrying, transport, manufacture or distribution of firearms.

I personally never want to have to say. "El cárcel es magnífico. Mucho mejor que me apartamento." (Nice jail you got. Much better than my apartment.)

Are Colombian jails "bad?" For a good idea of what it might be like I suggest you rent and watch closely the 1978 movie "Midnight Express" or drive by La Modelo prison in Bogotá. After you see La Modelo remember Dante's description of the quote over the entrance to Hell in the in "The Divine Comedy," "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

poco says on Jan 15, 2006, 18:47:

OK,, I think everyone should have the opportunity TO get themselves in deep trouble.

Best bet,, have your COLOMBIAN girlfriend find an individual who has a gun for sale AND (WITH) the proper papers. This type of transfer is the easiest. Private security folks and others usually have NO NEED for a firearm when the retire. Guess they feel safe without one?

A pistol,, something like a well used 9mm automatic or .38 revolver will sell for about 1.5 Million pesos.

You can pay when the transfer is complete.

Now you have access to a gun and more than likely LOTS of folks (the wrong ones) know you have it and wonder why you wanted one.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov