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scotty says on Dec 24, 2007, 01:16:

did i miss something...who was the troll?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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eywed says on Dec 24, 2007, 01:18:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 24, 2007, 01:48:

Yes, Peter took care of that.
I don't think car1 was one his handles, though.
Thanks guys for not letting the troll get any feedback.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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eywed says on Dec 24, 2007, 02:47:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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dwmte7 says on Dec 24, 2007, 06:35:

eywed...'steel trap?' hmmmm is that something that just rusts out, or do you lose it from age or indifference....?

GIB ditto?

i can't imagine a troll on pbh...the mods are just makin up these stories to keep their jobs. i heard that car 1 was really GWB, son of GHWB.

dwmte

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gringoloid says on Dec 24, 2007, 07:10:

Car1 is a real person and not a troll; he lives near me in Bogota and I've done business with him.

Last summer I made the same mistake thinking car1 was a troll and it caused some problems for everyone.

Last July and August we were over run with trolls and it's easy to make that mistake. I don't know why trolls come in waves; are they the same person?

I guess this is a 'world' site and some people speak a different kind of english than in the U.S.

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 24, 2007, 10:06:

Trust me, last night there was a troll. I was foolish enough to feed him a little too. The ass-clown was dissing the mods and Peter, and then telling everybody he was setting up his own site in 2 weeks. He left several posts, maybe 6 total until he was zapped. My first guess was it might be soundsGood, who also got zapped yesterday. Whoever it was, he was a real A-hole. I would also like to thank the mods and / or Peter for taking out the trash promptly.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Enrique187 says on Dec 24, 2007, 10:49:

yea it was soundsgood.

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eywed says on Dec 24, 2007, 12:17:

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Ay Hombe!!!!!

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christobeldawg says on Dec 24, 2007, 20:49:

uhoh I fed it. Does that mean I am going to grow a gnarly mole betwixt me eyes? arrrgghh..

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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eywed says on Dec 25, 2007, 00:21:

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Ay Hombe!!!!!

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CatGirl says on Dec 26, 2007, 19:32:

Eywed. I love it!...

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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eywed says on Dec 26, 2007, 19:42:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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goin_south says on Dec 26, 2007, 22:43:

dont' hold your breath.

Colombia es

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Omnispire says on Dec 28, 2007, 01:42:

I read some of the the bits that car1 wrote and I could not see how he was a troll. (Unless I have a different definition of a troll in internet terms). Can someone explain. Preferably without the sarcasm.

It's not about the destination, its about the journey

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goin_south says on Dec 28, 2007, 02:13:

do a search on 'pow wow'.. there's a bit of commonality

Colombia es

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Omnispire says on Dec 28, 2007, 04:28:

Still confused as to why he was a troll. As far as I can make out Pow Wow and Car1 (assuming they are different people) may just be crazy people, eccentrics, of poor education or that is just the way they are. The forums should be free to express what we want as long as you are not out and out offensive. You don't have to read every post by every person. If you see something and it is difficult to read, absolute nonsense you have the right to express your own comments in response to that including just ignoring it.

People talk a lot on this site about live and let live and how open minded "We" all are but censoring someone because you don't like the way they write flies straight in the face of that.

As I said I still can't see how this makes these users trolls. If there is some sort of complex computer program that makes conversation threads based on a sequence of words fed to it and this is being dumped into the forum then I would see that as being a troll. However, I can't believe that someone would have enough time on their hands to try and achieve something so pointless when you could sit there and write a paragraph with your own wits in a fraction of the time.

What is the objection to letting a few nutters have their views as well?

It's not about the destination, its about the journey

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gringoloid says on Dec 28, 2007, 07:46:

last summer, I had a strong hunch that car1 was pow wow and during that time pow wow was opening a new account everytime he was kicked off.

I can tell you though that they were born and raised relatively near each other and that is why their writing styles are the same.

But they are two different people.

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Omnispire says on Dec 28, 2007, 08:14:

I still don't understand how they are trolls.

Or are they literally mean looking monsters that spend a lot of their time sitting under bridges and have a particular taste for goat?

It's not about the destination, its about the journey

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docwilliam says on Dec 28, 2007, 08:33:

This is new to me, please. what is a troll?

"There's no time to panic"

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Omnispire says on Dec 28, 2007, 08:56:

DocW I just got the following from Wikipedia. The information on Wikipedia is not always accurate but it will normally give you a good basis for finding out more information if you don't know what something is. Anyway it says

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting other users into responding emotionally[1].[2] The rise of the expression "concern troll" reflects an expanded definition of troll as someone whose posts have the primary goal of disrupting or de-railing an internet community. "Troll" is also used in a broader pejorative sense to question the good faith of any Internet user who has annoyed the person using the term.......
The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often erroneously used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.

Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities.

"Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning "Please do not feed the troll".[citation needed]

Frequently, someone who has been labelled a troll by a group may seek to redeem their reputation by discrediting their opponents, for example by claiming that other members of the group are closed-minded, conspirators, or trolls themselves."

I did not know that was what it was. I thought it was something slightly different.

However if you look at some of my other comments and posts you could easily argue that i am a troll. On the other hand I like to try and give a fair debate on both sides of an issue especually if I feel strongly about it.

I think one or two of the more long standing members of PBH make far more controversial statements that could easily be considered trollish. I have seen comments about the fact that the site does not attract many women to it. This may be in part due to the posts of the members themselves.

It really comes down to what people want. A clichy small club that is quite elitist but everyone knows one another so that is okay or a wider open forum that encourages more input from a more diverse basis.

This forum could do a lot more to help people going to Colombia for the first time and to help one another but thats just my opinion.

It's not about the destination, its about the journey

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Omnispire says on Dec 28, 2007, 08:58:

I have to say as well that I really had to consider whether I was going to post that or not for fear of being labelled a troll. Freedom of speech is good. Thank goodness we live in countries where these are rights written into our constitutions!!!!!!!!!

It's not about the destination, its about the journey

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tomtom33 says on Dec 28, 2007, 12:46:

You can call anyone anything you want. The bottom line is that, if Peter so chooses, you can call them gone.

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docwilliam says on Dec 28, 2007, 15:53:

Thanks,

well, at least now I have a clue as to what people are talking about.

"There's no time to panic"

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CatGirl says on Dec 29, 2007, 18:30:

Meeeow. This is so very intense and complicated. I understand the concern - now I have taken Troll 101 and If I get sucked into a troll thread, asking for toll I will call for the troll patrol. Now I must nap and prepare for my milkbath and massage

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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goin_south says on Dec 29, 2007, 19:56:

Herrrrre, kitti, kitti...

Colombia es

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gringoloid says on Dec 30, 2007, 08:28:

Ominispire, thanks your your input on trolling.

I want to tell you though, things are much more viscious on the JfK assassination sites and well as the about.com/religion site. We're all sunday schoolers here compared to what I've seen over the last 10 years on these sites.

I'm going to post our troll definition with permission from the author and at the bottom is a suggestion for how to handle trolls. anybody want to make an experiement out the suggestion? I hope the length of this doesn't offend anyone.

****************

What is an Internet Troll?

An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

Why does it Matter?

Some people -- particularly those who have been online for years -- are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."

It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.


The Webmaster's Challenge

When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed -- more on this later.

The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.

Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed: they may have arrived at their opinion about a troll based on the messages they see, never realizing that the webmaster has already deleted his most horrific material. Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.

Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. They might post a dozen messages, each of which contains 400 lines of the letter "J". That is a form of expression, to be sure, but would you consider it your duty to play host to such a person?

Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself.

What about Free Speech?

When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed. Let us examine that claim.

While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.

Another useful example is the control of the radio frequency spectrum. You might wish to set up a powerful radio station to broadcast your ideas, but you cannot do so without applying for a license. Again, this is a practical limitation: if everybody broadcasted without restriction, the repercussions would be annoying at best and life-threatening at worst.

The radio example is helpful for another reason: with countless people having a legitimate need to use radio communications, it is important to ensure that nobody is 'monopolizing the channel'. There are only so many clear channels available in each frequency band and these must be shared.

When a troll attacks a message board, he generally posts a lot of messages. Even if his messages are not particularly inflammatory, they can be so numerous that they drown out the regular conversations (this is known as 'flooding'). Needless to say, no one person's opinions can be allowed to monopolize a channel.

The ultimate response to the 'free speech' argument is this: while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbor has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net. (On pay systems, the troll might be justified in asking for a refund.)

Conclusion

Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this:

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

By posting such a message, you let the troll know that you know what he is, and that you are not going to get dragged into his twisted little hobby.

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CatGirl says on Dec 30, 2007, 11:24:

Thanks. The conclusion helped much

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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lpdiver says on Dec 30, 2007, 11:28:

Troll alert..."The only way to deal with trolls it to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

;)

t

"cook some rice!"

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eywed says on Dec 30, 2007, 12:33:

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Ay Hombe!!!!!

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