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"Very Interesting," COLOMBIA: Door ‘Definitively’ Closed on Chávez’s Mediation

CARACAS, Nov 23 (IPS) - "Hey, I want to ask you a question. How many police officers and soldiers are being held hostage by the FARC?" Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez asked Colombian army chief General Mario Montoya.

The telephone conversation lasted maybe half a minute, but the consequences were dire.

At midnight local time Wednesday, Colombian President �?lvaro Uribe put an end to the efforts by Chávez and opposition Senator Piedad Córdoba to broker an agreement for an exchange of 45 hostages being held by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) for some 500 imprisoned guerrillas.

An Uribe administration spokesman said the Venezuelan leader had broken an agreement not to talk directly with the Colombian army chief or other members of the military about the hostage question.

Córdoba was making phone calls from the presidential palace in Caracas, to arrange meetings with several Colombian figures to inform them of the state of the negotiations and of the results of Chávez’s meeting with French President Nicolas Sarkozy Tuesday in Paris.

Chávez and Córdoba were even planning a quick visit to Uribe, for the same purpose.

From an adjoining office, Chávez asked Córdoba who she was talking to, and she responded "General Montoya." The president got on the phone, and asked his brief question.

Córdoba described her call to Montoya as "routine."

Uribe’s peace commissioner, Luis Carlos Restrepo, said he had taken over the efforts to facilitate an agreement, and would "redirect them as necessary, in a discreet manner."

"It is very clear to us that this public spotlight generates huge risks," he added in a press conference Thursday in the seat of the presidency in Bogotá.

But journalist Carlos Lozano, a senior member of the Colombian Communist Party and an expert on the issue of the hostage-prisoner exchange, stated that "to say that…Restrepo is going to resume contacts with the guerrillas for this purpose is a bad joke, because he has never had contact with them, and on the contrary has invariably thrown obstacles in the way of the facilitators’ efforts."

In an email response from Caracas to questions from IPS, Lozano said the efforts made by Chávez and Córdoba since August were "productive" and had "reawakened hope for a humanitarian swap" of hostages for prisoners, which has broad support among the Colombian population.

Chávez and Uribe had agreed that they would talk before any eventual decision to end the Venezuelan leader’s assistance in the hostage talks. However, that agreement was not fulfilled. It was Córdoba who informed Chávez of the Colombian leader’s decision.

The Venezuelan government said it accepted "this sovereign decision by the Colombian government" but expressed "frustration" at the cutting short of a process "carried out amidst great difficulties" and which had made "important advances that already pointed to the possibility of a solution to this essentially human drama."

Caracas sent the hostages’ families "a message of faith, first in God and then in the good judgement of those who have in their hands the power to make, in time, wise rectifications and decisions."

Venezuela, "despite this regrettable decision by the government of Colombia, has an open heart and arms to continue lending its humble services for the sake of life and peace," the government said in a communiqué released Thursday.

Alfredo Rangel, an expert in military issues and director of the Bogota-based Security and Democracy Foundation who previously ran for the Senate on a pro-Uribe ticket, said the government had "definitively" closed the door to Venezuela’s mediation.

"The situation is worse than before. That was made clear by the government’s announcement that it will no longer talk about an ‘exchange’, only about ‘humanitarian actions.’ It will not seek an agreement. The few advances that had been made have been undone. And this no longer has anything to do with Venezuela or, apparently, anyone else," he told IPS on Friday.

The underlying question, said the analyst, is that "the government was unable to accept the political recognition that the FARC was achieving" by means of Chávez’s facilitation efforts.

In Lozano’s view, Uribe’s reaction demonstrates "that the Colombian government has no interest in peace or a humanitarian exchange. The only option it accepts is a fratricidal war and military rescue operations."

According to the director of Colombia’s Caracol Radio station, Darío Arizmendi, from the moment that Chávez reached an agreement that the FARC guerrillas would provide him with proof that the hostages are still alive, the air force began a steady bombing campaign along the entire border with Venezuela.

The bombing operations reportedly made it impossible for an envoy sent by Chávez to pick up the solid "proof of life" in Colombian territory and bring it to Caracas prior to the Venezuelan leader’s meeting with Sarkozy.

Chávez’s envoy already has the evidence that the hostages are alive, according to Arizmendi, and "right now is holding tight here, in some little village, waiting for a miracle to occur."

On Wednesday morning, several ruling coalition legislators visited the Colombian seat of government and, along with Minister of Justice and the Interior Carlos Holguín, reportedly told Uribe that the process had gotten out of his hands and that he should bring it to an end, Arizmendi reported.

But Lozano said the president needed no pressure from legislators to call off the process. "Uribe was already annoyed with the dynamics of the good offices efforts, and was looking for a pretext to cut them off."

"It was a rude gesture reflecting discourtesy towards the altruistic efforts offered in solidarity" by Chávez, said Lozano. "Why is President Uribe afraid of President Chávez talking to the Colombian generals? Maybe he's worried they’ll become ‘Chavistas’."

General Montoya’s human rights record has come under fire in the United States. U.S. intelligence sources have leaked to the press in that country suspicions that he worked closely with ultra-right paramilitaries at the service of drug lord "Don Berna", who is now in prison, to eradicate urban guerrillas in the northwestern Colombian city of Medellín in October 2002.

In Bogota, meanwhile, U.S. Ambassador William Brownfield complained that the FARC had not provided evidence that the hostages were still alive, prior to Chávez’s meeting with Sarkozy.

France reiterated Thursday its support for Chávez’s efforts to broker an accord, and urged Uribe to keep open the channel of dialogue that the Venezuelan president forged with the FARC over the past three months.

"We continue to believe that Chávez’s efforts are the best option for achieving the hostages’ release," said Sarkozy’s spokesman David Martinon, who announced that the French president would be sending a letter to Uribe in the next few days.

The highest profile hostage held by the FARC is French-Colombian citizen Ingrid Betancourt, whose release Sarkozy has made a top priority. (END/2007)

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40191

By Medellin Traveler on Nov 24, 2007, 06:44 in Politics & the war.

juancegomez says on Nov 24, 2007, 09:29:

The most interesting detail, due to its being unique, is the allegation apparently made by Darío Arizmendi about some sort of Chavez envoy supposedly being trapped "in some little village".

But let's be reasonable for a moment: the Colombian Air Force does not have the capability to bomb the *entire* border with Venezuela, much less for a prolonged amount of time, so I find that possibility to be questionable.

It would be more likely to argue that there is a military operation (including bombing runs) in the area where this envoy is allegedly traveling through, which may or may not be a coincidence, instead of making an exaggerated claim about the entire frontier.

If that is true, I do hope that circumstances allow this envoy to continue on his way back to Venezuela and show whatever "proofs of life" he has (if any).

One wonders, however, why is an envoy even necessary when there is such a thing as the Internet, which FARC does know how to use. The necessary videos or photos or letters could be uploaded or e-mailed somewhere with little difficulty and a fairly good amount of confidentiality, if they actually wanted to do so.

SiV says on Nov 24, 2007, 10:26:

To end the mediation over such a trivial technicality seems a cop out, to me. Uribe ended it because he's not interested. Falta de voluntad politica, punto y final.

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

miamimike says on Nov 24, 2007, 10:41:

I believe Uribe felt he would be upstaged by Chavez and choose not to give him a Victory. I'll bet the Hostages could care less who negotiates their freedom,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

slguy says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:01:

Or maybe Uribe just got tired of feeling the need to take a shower every ten minutes, for having dealt with Chavez in the first place....;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:36:

COLOMBIA: Door ‘Definitively’ Closed

Then, wouldn't it be more like: DOOR DEFINITELY ....SLAMMMMMED!?

Jajajj.... Another good day for the gringos in Colombia; it's okay to slam de door!
And, I'm assuming the colombianitas can still wear mini-skirts)

y, un mil gracias.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:44:

I'd have to agree with SiV. It sounds like such a little thing to end negotiations on something that is so important. Is Uribe's pride more important than the fate of the secuestrados?

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Sr Tertius says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:52:

I agree with Desi and SiV, and also with Juance's skepticism about some POL being stuck in the Ven-Col border. How much would it have cost to talk with Chavez about this incident without making bombastic announcements? That was ALSO part of the deal, apparently. No doubt Chavez and FARC were taking advantage of the situation (duh! who wouldn't!!) but that should've been anticipated or at least corrected instead of just calling the whole thing off. It's sad that Uribe's and Chavez's egos trumped the rights of those kidnapped.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

slguy says on Nov 24, 2007, 11:53:

You're correct, SrT. It IS a shame. I can't help but wonder what else went on, behind the scenes- on both parts. Neither of these gents is short on ego....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

gatogris says on Nov 24, 2007, 12:00:

And I wonder if the incentives for staying in the guerilla business have started to weaken for our friendly neighborhood octogenarian rebel leader...

RonDubya says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:24:

Now, I am thinking a couple of things:

1. If I am a kidnapper, murderer, rapist, thief, and who knows what else I do do support my "cause", do I really have any credibility when it comes to so-called negotiation (I say so-called negotiation, because how can you hope to actually negotiate with such a person)? I think I have zero credibility. And if these things were not against the law there would be no problem, would there? But these things ARE against the law - not only that they are against almost every moral standard in any society and against every moral thought in any decent person's mind. So how could you have any faith in anything I would say or agree to? You absolutely could not have the least bit of confidence in a single word I say.

2. Think about AFTER a hostage exchange. If you do "negotiate" with me and I agree to release my high-profile hostages, what do I have left? Not much. So what will I do? I will have to go and kidnap some more important people, and start the agony all over again, won't I? And so it goes in perpetual motion.

So in conclusion, the only thing you should negotiate with me is this: In which manner would I prefer to die?

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Sr Tertius says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:35:

RD: Although I disagree with your position, it is perfectly reasonable. My problem is not so much with that as with Uribe's inconsistent position: He yells that he's gonna kill all those mofos with his own bare hands, but does shit. Then he says let's negotiate, then when he gets everybody worked up with some very little progress, he takes it back. Now he has a new word, "humanitarian situation," I think he calls it. He appears not to understand that words, not backed by actions, are empty. They appear to work on the polls, though.
Does he have any credibility left? Not to me. But he lost it a looong time ago.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

gatogris says on Nov 24, 2007, 13:46:

RD - a further problem with your position is the following, more pragmatic consideration. If we can't negotiate with groups like the FARC, then the world is in serious trouble.

Compared to conflicts between states (I'm assuming you think these institutions have credibility), conflicts with armed non-state actors like the FARC have been far more prevalent in the last thirty years. If we can't negotiate with these groups, there is little hope for a lasting cessation to hostiliites without engendering human rights catatstrophes around the world.

But you're right, how do you hold someone accountable to negotiations who has already proven themselves unreliable? The answer is to make it in their best interests to negotiate. And this is not always accomplished by threats and violence.

Rikito says on Nov 24, 2007, 14:10:

gatogris, the world is in serious trouble.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

RonDubya says on Nov 24, 2007, 19:42:

"If we can't negotiate with groups like the FARC..."

How is our "negotiation" going with Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, and that fruitcake over there in Iran, to name just a few? The answer is that we can't negotiate with those groups, period. When we talk negotiation we think about people who can listen to reason, or have the ability to help us understand their position. Can any of that take place with "groups like the FARC"? They do not put any value on their own life, and therefore do not value the life of anyone else.

As far as Uribe is concerned, I apologize for not being better informed. My Spanish is very poor, so I have a difficult time understanding much of the politics in Colombia (not that I really understand the politics in the US). My limited understanding leads me to say that he is doing a pretty good job, but I could be wrong about that.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 20:16:

yo acuerdo, RonW..... he's doing a pretty good job..... whether I or anyone else here happens to like him alot or not at all. IT ISN'T ONE OF THE EASIEST JOBS IN THE WORLD: BEING PRESIDENT OF LOCOMBIA

y, un mil gracias.

chrispej says on Nov 24, 2007, 20:50:

Uribe won the last election with damn near 70% of the votes. Say what you will, but I've yet to meet a Colombiano who hates Uribe. Granted, there are a few. Now, let's talk about Chavez. I've met a few Venezuelans and not one of them had anything good to say about him. Chavez is power hungry. We all know this. So what's the one vice he could use to win the support of the Colombian people and upstage Uribe? Hostages. Could you imagine where this situation would have gone if Chavez had succeded? Do you realize how much more the valuable the hostages have become because of Chavez? Uribe is smart. He waited for Chavez to screw up. "Thank you for all your help, Mr Chavez, but we'll deal with our own problems....asshole!"

I dunno but I think Chavez might have better luck freeing hostages in a trailer park in Florida. This moron is getting more attention than he deserves. He needs to be bitch slapped.

Nuff said.

goin_south says on Nov 24, 2007, 20:53:

nice thoughts, chrispej

y, un mil gracias.

RonDubya says on Nov 25, 2007, 11:36:

Oh yeah, when I mentioned fruitcakes did I forget to mention Chavez? How could I forget something so obvious?

And I don't know about that trailer park in Florida. Some of those folks are really sharp. Did you read about the developer who wanted to buy one of those ancient trailer parks and make everyone that lived there millionaires? It didn't happen - the majority didn't want to move.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

slguy says on Nov 25, 2007, 15:19:

Ron, I remember that story, and the deal fell thru because aparently the buyer didn't spread enough grease around to get the zoning he needed. A BUNCH of those folks had already packed, ready to leave (if it's the same story we're thinking about - somewhere near Pompano, as I recall). Even an idiot knows to take $1.5 million for his trailer....;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

Medellin Traveler says on Nov 25, 2007, 16:02:

It's not ALL ABOUT MONEY!!

One of my best friends parents where all excited when someone offered them $600k for their home in the city. When they finally settled down, they refused the offer because they would have to move away from the neighborhood where they raised all four of their children. The same neighborhood where three of their children continue to live with their young families.

In the end, they just remodeled the home, and are VERY HAPPY they did not give into the temptation, especially after only paying $70k for the home back in the day.

I believe it was the same with those town folk who refused to sell to some big shot developer.

Don't forget, there are many of us who live in areas where your freakin' neighbors won't even say hello to you, or thank you for holdinig the door open for them when they're walking in with a bag full of groceries, or whatever.

I support them folks decision 100%!!!

They're probably happier now then they would have been if they sold, took the money. and moved to who knows where, not knowing anyone.

Everyone's GREEDY nowadays!!

That's one of the biggest problems in the US today!!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

slguy says on Nov 25, 2007, 16:10:

Apparently it WAS about the money, in this case. It was the developer who backed out, not the residents, if we're talking about the same case....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

RonDubya says on Nov 25, 2007, 19:06:

Sorry, not only did I get this off subject, I was also misinformed.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

goin_south says on Nov 25, 2007, 19:16:

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

classic.....!

y, un mil gracias.

chrispej says on Nov 25, 2007, 21:47:

I'll never forget that day I saw all those trailer park seniors in their motorized chairs cruising down the sidewalk wearing leathers with their gang colors. They were looking for trouble. Yeah, Chavez might have some intense negotiations ahead of him if they took hostages. :)

I lost my mind once, then I found it, then I lost it again.......intentionally