US Terrorocracy Promotion in Colombia

FredGarvin says on Jul 12, 2006, 07:08:

The U.S. removing itself from all trade with Colombia, foreign investments halt and a government controlled economy (socialist) reform takes root, culminating in the current Col gov administration handing over control to the "un-terrorists", or if you prefer, the anti-U.S./communistic regime.

Then this will solve the human rights abuses and social injustices?

Where is the article that lays out what will happen should the United States say, "screw you guys, I am going home", Cartman-esque ideology? What will the affects be in social injustice/human rights should the U.S. keep it's nose out of Colombia? Do they trend positively or negatively? Why?

The majority of your posts/references seem to be very anti capitalist --- yet I see no refrences to real answers. What would happen economically should free trade cease between Colombia and the U.S.???? Specifically, which regions in Colombia are affected? Who suffers? Redistribute the wealth equally among the population, who benefits? Does the class system simply go away or does the top echelon keep their advantage?

FG

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platano says on Jul 12, 2006, 17:49:

FredGarvin, I don't write these articles... I just share them because the have to do with Colombia. Yesterday I published four items here: two capitalist, one critical of capitalism, and one about poetry in Medellin.

I must say I have no crystal ball to predict "what would happen" ... I can only see that what is happening is resulting in thousands of deaths and millions of displaced. There is no way we can know if it would be better or worse. The difference is you seem willing to continue with the status quo and are fearful it would be worse without USA intervention. I want to stop the status quo of USA intervention and let Colombians resolve their problems without USA arms shipments, USA military aircraft, USA advisors, USA pressure on Colombia's policies, etc.
plátano

plátano

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FredGarvin says on Jul 13, 2006, 05:23:

The crystal ball is very simple to read: States lacking security do not cultivate free markets. Period. The U.S.'s interests in Colombia have metled into 2 --- free trade and reduction in narco activity. The point is, if you let the narco crowd rule, the negative affects on the current markets/economies would be severe -- resulting in many MORE "thousands of deaths and millions of displaced".

I doubt that stopping aid to Colombia will have any benefit to it's situation. Actually, the results could be disasterous should this occur because as decreases in security roll out, economic decreases exponentially fall --- leaving an unsecured population with little economic opportunity.

FG

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FredGarvin says on Jul 13, 2006, 07:03:

"Contrary to these claims this article shows that the US continues to back Colombian counter-insurgency efforts which essentially amount to a strategy of state terrorism under a democratic façade (terrorocracy)."

I'd say the author has no concept of right and wrong.

"Moreover, this policy continues to be pursued because the US has long employed counter-insurgency warfare to stabilise social formations conducive to US political and economic interests."

This policy is also conducive to economic interests of Colombians who desire economic, educational, health, social, and basic human freedom opportunities.

"In Colombia this strategy continues to have profound consequences for human rights, social justice and democracy"

Just bitching and moaning from someone who can provide NO real answers. Yet I am supposed to assume that without U.S. involvement, the world would be a better place? That if the U.S. would simply go away, only then the world could frolic together with bunny rabbits under beautiful rainbows!

FG

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platano says on Jul 13, 2006, 07:10:

Free Markets? The official website of USAID frankly states that "the principal beneficiary of US foreign assistance program has always been the US". The website adds that "nearly 80% of USAID contracts and grants go directly to American firms." (www.usaid.gov).

The USA goal is to perpetually enrich itself at the cost of reducing other societies to poverty and dependence. "Free markets" is a euphemism for free mobility of USA capital, unrestrained expansion of the American economy, and freedom of big business to buy up the rest of the world to exploit it for as much profit as possible (with as little social responsibility as possible). Look at Colombia after receiving billions of USA "aid". The prevalence of "pobreza absoluta" speaks for itself.

plátano

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FredGarvin says on Jul 13, 2006, 07:28:

What does your "research" tell us about the thousands of Colombians, employed by Colombian firms? How many of these companies/employees will be negatively affected should their CURRENTLY EXISTING opportunities for trade with an incredibly LARGE consumer base disappear?

FG

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platano says on Jul 13, 2006, 07:50:

Which employees are you referring to? The ones who earn minimum wage working in inhumane situations, or the ones who dared suggest better working conditions might be possible and ended up dead? How does a "free trade agreement" help them?

plátano

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FredGarvin says on Jul 13, 2006, 08:24:

Refering to ALL OF THEM. Because Free trade creates interest from organizations like The International Labour Organization, improving or establishing comprehensive initiatives that lead into adoption/placement of basic principles into the underlying constitution followed by sound legislation that benefits the population as a whole as it moves forward into the future.

Groups like the ILO have the clout to influence how that framework is built. We can see this exemplified in the benefit of those who earn minimum wage. Things such as (btw, all of this has been ratified and instituded by the Colombian government),

- ALL workers are entitled to severence pay in relation to their work duration
- Minimum wage increases cannot be inferior to inflation
- Pregnant women cannot be terminated from their employment or during thier 12 week paid maternity leave
- All workers receive 1 months additional salary per year in an individual savings fund
- All low wage workers recieve subsidies for transportation, clothing, and CASH PER DEPENDEDNT/CHILD

Additionally, homicide in union related cases are on, and have been on the decrease. Not saying union-related homicide isn't a problem, but at some point the problems needs to be addressed with REAL ANSWERS. I would argue that without free trade, the time frame for dealing with this particular issue is greatly increased.

FG

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platano says on Jul 13, 2006, 12:37:

"btw, this has been ratified and instituted by Colombia..." FredGarvin,

Have you ever heard the Colombian expression "El papel aguanta todo"?

The ILO's intentions may be good, but the Colombian government is not so enthusiastic. On June 16, after a bitter and hard-fought battle, the ILO's Governing Body was scheduled to decide whether to convene a Commission of Inquiry to investigate the assassinations of trade union leaders in Colombia. The Colombian government is fiercely opposed to such an inquiry and has launched an unprecedented offensive to put an end to the ILO proceedings. The government denies responsibility for attacks against trade unions and other violations of human rights and attempts to cast doubt on the objectivity of the ILO's supervisory mechanisms. According to the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions (ICFTU), the Colombian government has incited personal attacks against ILO officials in the Colombian press. The government campaign presents the possibility of a Commission of Inquiry as a threat to the ongoing peace negotiations and, in an attempt to garner sympathy from other developing countries, argues that the mere fact of the commission's establishment would lead foreign economic partners such as the European Union to impose immediate commercial sanctions on Colombia.

Here is a case of a problem being addressed by a REAL ANSWER, and the Colombian government fights it tooth and nail.

plátano

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FredGarvin says on Jul 13, 2006, 13:10:

Could you please date the sources? This sounds like an initiative back in June 2005....

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platano says on Jul 13, 2006, 15:15:

You are correct, this was an old (but not that old) source... More recently the ILO has commended Colombia. At the March 2006 meeting an ILO press release states:

"Acknowledging the efforts made by the Government of Colombia to improve protection for trade union officials and to move the investigations of the cases forward, the Committee urged the Government to take all possible measures to put an end to the acts of violence against trade union officials and to continue vigorously the investigations that have already begun.

The Committee also requested the Government to keep it informed of the progress made by the specialized sub-unit within the National Public Prosecutor's Office which deals with cases of human rights violations involving trade unionists, as well as the entry into force of the Law on Justice and Peace and any impact that this Law might have on the various cases of murder and violence that are pending.

It also urged that consideration be given to the possibility of setting up an ILO office in Colombia in order to facilitate dialogue between the Government, the social partners and the Committee on Freedom of Association on the steps to be taken to continue to combat and ultimately eliminate the existing situation of impunity, as well as to ensure more effective implementation of freedom of association."

I realize ILO must remain diplomatic but their optimism is not really justified by recent events. The murder of trade unionists has increased in 2006. “These deadly threats represent attempts by employers … to stop dissent, silence workers and destroy the only mechanism that gives workers some control over their economic lives,” AFL-CIO President John Sweeney writes in the forward to the report, titled “The Struggle for Worker Rights in Colombia.”

plátano

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FredGarvin says on Jul 13, 2006, 16:11:

"It also urged that consideration be given to the possibility of setting up an ILO office in Colombia in order to facilitate dialogue between the Government, the social partners........"

Actually, the June 1, 2006 announcement states that an agreement has been met by both parties. This includes setting up ILO offices within Colombia AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, IN PART, DIRECTLY FROM THE COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT.

FG

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platano says on Jul 13, 2006, 16:25:

Thanks, FredGravin, This is good news!plátano

plátano

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griffbos says on Jul 26, 2006, 16:47:

Fred one question What fre trade agreement are you talking about? the one that Colombia and th USA are still writing? For that has yet to be approved by the USA, an dth earliest that is might is 2007. I say might because the USA is in an election year and a new Congress could vote no thus killing it. There is also the current Congress that is rather unhappy with the failure to stem the flow of Cocaine from Colombia into the USA and are trying to cut the cureent aid in half. Colombia economic growth is not just thanks to the USA by the way. Yes in 2005 41% od Colombia trde was with the USA and Colombi was the 4th largest USA trade partner, but Colombia growth in large part i due to them joining the WTO, entering into trade agreements with other latin countries, and making policy changes to mananage thier economy.in 2005 Colombia GPD was 100 billion and 2006 has seen exports expand even more est Q1 GDP grotwh is 5.37% . The fact is Colombia has seen econmic growth every year since the late 1930's spite the problems in the country. I think one could argue that the USA has had some positive as well negative impact on Colombia, but the biggest impact on Colombia cleary is it's people

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FredGarvin says on Jul 28, 2006, 06:41:

griff,The essence of all griff,

The essence of all the talk about free trade with the U.S. is this....

There are a TON of people who oppose any of it, yet NEVER explain what would happen should those foreign economies (and small businesses) not have the opportunity to reach the U.S consumer base. Or at least OUTLINE what would happen, who would be affected, if trade is non-existent with the ENORMOUS consumer base that the U.S. market provides. Headlines such as "The U.S. Terrocracy" foments the idea that -- if the big satan would just go away, the world would be a better place. Again, failing to point out what that local businesses and economies would be affected negatively without the opportunity to sell goods/services outside of the country aimed at the U.S markets.


FG

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FredGarvin says on Jul 28, 2006, 08:06:

"What fre trade agreement are you talking about? the one that Colombia and th USA are still writing? "

An agreement was made back in Feb of this year...

http://usinfo.state.gov/ei/Archive/2006/Feb/27-265723.html

But you are probably right about it's approval in Congress....

FG

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 09:24:

Its real simple ! Do you want peace in colombia an opportunity an freedoms for yourself an a say about your furture an your famlies future?

Or do you want to live under a terroist regime in isolation isolation from the world. Where you cannot even determine what your life is going to be.

Freedom leads to peace ! Peace leads to be let in the international community as a trade partner an moral leading country.

Any intelligent person anywhere would want there children to have freedom an have it a little better than they did, any father wants a good paying job to provide for his family. an any mother should want t see her children grow up educated adults instead of dead socialist.

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Sr Tertius says on Jul 29, 2006, 09:33:

GIB... is that you...? We've missed you SOOO much... and, BTW, where's my money from the bet!

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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