Join in 7 seconds.. Existing users: sign in.

all forums, active | friendly talkzone, travel tips, visa & paperwork, renting, selling & meetups, politics & the war, espanol

U.S. base is no longer welcome in Ecuador

Mayor Jorge Zambrano pulled up to the Manta City Hall in his black Ford Explorer, expecting to find a rally in support of the American military outpost that runs drug-surveillance flights from this gritty port city.
He left an hour later behind a wall of riot shields and a cloud of Mace, as police fended off banner-waving protesters who crashed the event in March.

With 18 months left on its decade-long contract, the U.S. Forward Operating Location in Manta has few friends in this South American nation -- and fewer still who believe that the agreement has any hope of being extended.

Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa has vowed not to renew the base's contract beyond its November 2009 expiration. And politicians drafting a new constitution have proposed banning the base or any other foreign military presence in the country.

If the Manta base closes, it would leave the United States shopping for a new airstrip for the radar-mounted AWAC E3s, and P-3 spy planes that ply the Eastern Pacific, looking for drug runners.

It would also be another dark turn for rapidly deteriorating U.S.-Ecuadorean relations.

The United States sees the Manta compound -- with its manicured lawns and staff of about 150 pilots and crew members -- as part of a multinational effort that helped block $4.2 billion worth of narcotics last year.

But in Ecuador, the Base de Manta is viewed largely as an affront to national sovereignty that threatens to drag the country into the regional drug war.

TENSIONS

The clashing views come as tensions between the nations are running high.

President Correa -- a staunch ally of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez -- has made the ousting of the Manta base central to his presidency, and he recently led a shake-up of Ecuador's armed forces, alleging that they were infiltrated by the CIA and too cozy with U.S. military advisors.

Colombia, a staunch U.S. ally, is accusing the Correa administration of sympathizing with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC. Colombia claims that a FARC laptop, seized during a controversial and bloody cross-border raid into Ecuador on March 1, revealed that Correa's election campaign took FARC money.

Colombia also alleges that María Augusta Calle -- a member of Correa's Alianza País party who is pushing constitutional changes that would ban the Manta operation -- allowed the FARC to use her bank account.

The commander of the Forward Operating Location in Manta, Lt. Col. Robert Leonard, admits that the United States is losing the public-relations battle.

''There is so much misconception out there as to what we do here and what's going on,'' he said. ``And as you get further away from Manta, those misconceptions grow.''

Soon after the Colombian incursion, which killed 25 people, including FARC leader Raúl Reyes and an Ecuadorean national, rumors swirled in Ecuador's press that it was spy planes from Manta that helped pinpoint the rebel camp -- and may have even carried the bombs for the strike.

The United States insists that the stories are fiction, and analysts point out that Colombia has little need for such help. But the rumors have found a receptive audience in Ecuador, and the government has called for an audit of Manta's operations.

What it will find, Leonard says, are a handful of unarmed aircraft, dedicated solely to looking for drug runners at sea and in the air.

The base is one of three in the region -- including El Salvador and Aruba-Curac¸ao -- that feed information to the Joint Interagency Task Force in Key West. JIATF South, as it's known, consists of different U.S. agencies and liaison officers from 12 nations, including Ecuador.

WRONG MESSAGE

Paco Velasco, a member of the Alianza País party, said that fighting drugs is a national priority, but that the Manta base sends the wrong message. ''A foreign military base here makes our armed forces look bad, and it makes our nation look like it's not capable of taking care of itself,'' Velasco said.

It also gives the appearance that Ecuador is helping U.S.-backed efforts in Colombia to fight the FARC -- a conflict that Ecuador has tried to stay out of, he said.

Responding to the opposition, the United States has said it is willing to abandon the airstrip and move its operations to the remaining Forward Operating Locations, or to new locations in either Colombia or Peru.

At the same time, however, Manta's command is in the midst of an aggressive charm offensive to win supporters and -- just maybe -- the chance to stay.

For the last few months, Leonard has been escorting journalists and politicians around the base, inviting them to ``open any door and look under any rug.''

On show is the $71 million investment that has helped turn this once tiny airstrip into an international airport, complete with a state-of-the-art fire station. The base's planes haul in tons of donations and emergency aid, and the base supports dozens of charities, including orphanages, schools for the handicapped and a beauty pageant.

The Manta operation pumps $6.5 million a year into the local economy and employs about 150 local staff members, Leonard said.

Those are figures that the government should be focusing on, said Zambrano, Manta's longtime mayor.

While the base is not the primary economic engine in this town of 250,000 that lives off industrial fishing, it does help, he said.

''The base not only creates direct jobs, but there are hundreds of small businesses that provide services to the base,'' Zambrano said.

Back in Quito, political analyst Simón Pachano cannot foresee a scenario in which the Manta base might be allowed to stay open.

Unlike his predecessors, Correa is enjoying unprecedented popularity. And his aggressive anti-American and anti-Colombian stance plays well in this nation accustomed to taking a back seat in regional politics.

In exchange for using the base free of charge for 10 years, the United States agreed to expand and update the airstrip, and cooperate with Ecuador on counter-narcotics initiatives.

The fact that the 1999 deal was never approved by Ecuador's full legislature -- only that body's International Affairs Committee -- has made it a political target, Pachano said.

''The Manta agreement has always been viewed as a mistake, and it's even less politically viable now,'' said Pachano, a professor at the Latin American University for social sciences.

As a cab driver in Manta, René Santana says he has mixed feelings about the base. While he appreciates the extra dollars he makes shuttling crew members or visitors to the airport, the extra money has its price.

"As an Ecuadorean, I can't go anywhere in the world without a hassle, but we let these U.S. military people come here like they own the place,'' he said. ``All human beings want their home to be respected. We all want national sovereignty."

By tasco66 on May 6, 2008, 08:59 in Politics & the war.

Waterdawg says on May 6, 2008, 16:03:

If we had anyone with a brain up on Capitol Hill ( I know asking for a lot ) all they have to do is turn the First Air Cav. loose in Ny/Ny and Jersey for a week or two and start sending them back .. The amount of moneys lost would knock their economy into a tail spin ...

Chelesupercono says on May 8, 2008, 16:08:

Just another knee jerk reaction by another Chavez wanna be, forget about the people who make a living from the base.....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

cali373 says on May 9, 2008, 10:49:

Big deal, the base will just be moved to Peru or Colombia.

Has anyone ever thought how US americans would react to Foreign country's Military base in the continental U.S.?

Smile if you are a thinker!

jonas says on May 9, 2008, 11:19:

But as chelesupercoño suggests a Foreign country´s Military base would employ locals jaja now here we really start talking politics...

What I have, I do not want to lose, but Where I am I do not want to stay, but those I love, I do not want to leave, but those I know I no longer want to see, but Where I die, I do not want to go;I want to stay where I have never been

cali373 says on May 9, 2008, 11:22:

jajaja

Smile if you are a thinker!

eywed says on May 10, 2008, 01:07:

They will cry when our money stops coming in tho.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

ColombianoGringo says on May 10, 2008, 11:49:

Just out of curiosity, how have the the Filipino regions that used to house US naval bases fared after these bases were closed down?

billyb says on May 10, 2008, 12:50:

Good question CG, I wonder also.

romy says on May 10, 2008, 13:58:

rapes went down in the region I believe

ColombianoGringo says on May 10, 2008, 14:30:

Now you're just being contrary. I was referring to the economic repercussions and I suspect you gathered as much.

romy says on May 10, 2008, 14:32:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1110/p05s01-woap.html
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=0485...

ColombianoGringo says on May 10, 2008, 14:47:

Yes romy. We know that US servicemen have committed rapes in host countries. Colombian soldiers also commit atrocities yet it doesn't mean all Colombian soldiers are murderers. A lot of Colombians are narcos, but it doesn't make us all criminals. Clearly, the vast majority of US soldiers are not rapists either.

romy says on May 10, 2008, 14:50:

I just wouldn't want a US base in Colombia is all. Maybe up in the dessert would be somewhat ok if the price is right, just away from the people.

ColombianoGringo says on May 10, 2008, 14:54:

I agree, I wouldn't want any more US "Advisors" based in Colombia. There was a case of statutory rape involving some US soldiers in Melgar last year, but that is not the reason I wouldn't want them based in Colombia.

docwilliam says on May 10, 2008, 18:11:

If Ecuador does not want them, pull them out! I believe our Government should not even wait for 2009, just pull them out now. And I do not believe we are needed in Colombia (mil. base) just pick it up in a country that will welcome the $$$. If know one welcomes the $$$, run the operations off of a Naval Flight deck. Stay away from the Governments who hold hostilities.

"There's no time to panic"

billyb says on May 10, 2008, 18:36:

I agree Doc, now that US reactivated the SA & Caribbean fleet, just run them from a carrier.

ColombianoGringo says on May 10, 2008, 18:41:

I wonder how the costs of running operations from a carrier compare to those of a land base in a friendly host country.

billyb says on May 10, 2008, 18:46:

I am sure the land based ops would be cheaper than carrier ops, less people neccessary, no fuel costs for the ships including the carrier's support ships and battle group, etc.. BTW, the US is not paying Ecuador to use Manta, the benefit that Ecuador gets out of it is the bases contribution to the local economy. Errr, I guess the carrier wouldn't have any fuel costs since they are all nuclear powered, but the support ships.

docwilliam says on May 10, 2008, 18:53:

That is hard to say (for me anyways) but the way I look at it is; The war on drugs is OUR WAR (USA), not someone elses war. Colombia is working with the US on our WAR ON DRUGS. If other countries do not willingly assist, we have no business pushing ourselves on them to support OUR WAR ON DRUGS. So I feel that if we have no host country that welcomes this base, the cost of the carrier fleet is on our tax and spend list. That is a bill we must pay until the war is over (never) or a better solution is found.

Good question CG

"There's no time to panic"

billyb says on May 10, 2008, 19:12:

On that note, you are already paying to maintain that fleet anyways, so the additional costs might be minimal.

billyb says on May 10, 2008, 19:14:

Since they are already payning for the operation and maintenance of that fleet anyways, the additional costs might be minimal, not like it would be if they created a fleet solely for that purpose.

docwilliam says on May 12, 2008, 20:37:

Never thought of that......They might even be welcomed in Cartagena. They are used to gringo tourists, so they may be able to tolerate some misbehaving military people. (not that I misbehaved when i was in) hahaha

"There's no time to panic"

jonas says on May 13, 2008, 09:34:

and for the contributions... the paisa girls could move from Manta to Cartagena...

docwilliam says on May 13, 2008, 12:17:

I do not know what Manta means but I do aggree that a strong migration would be likely.

"There's no time to panic"

toneloc24 says on May 13, 2008, 12:30:

There are plenty of Colombianas plying their "trade" in Ecuador already, and pretty cheaply as well. Like $7USD to $20USD cheap. Doesn't make sense to me either, but whatever. To travel all the way from Bogota, Cali, Manizales, etc., to work for cheap rates than in Colombia???

If there were some paisas in Manta, I suspect they would only strongly "migrate" to Quito or Guayaquil to be with the others.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

billyb says on May 13, 2008, 13:05:

Those are the girls that are too ugly to ply their trade in Colombia, but are considered better looking than the average local, LOL.

toneloc24 says on May 13, 2008, 14:10:

You would think so, but more to do with it being much easier of travel and earning dollars in Ecuador, no matter how little, than in Panama or one of the Caribbean islands. Actually, some of the local chicks smoke the Colombians in Ecuador in looks and attitude. More down to earth. They got their own version of "Medellin" looking chicks over there too. You'd be surprised. LOL!!!

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

romy says on May 13, 2008, 15:56:

cost of living in Ecuador is lower than in Colombia...

Chelesupercono says on May 13, 2008, 18:40:

The U.S. should pull out all of our military from everywhere in the world and bring them home! I think Americans have paid a extremely high price in blood and $$$$ to sort out the Europeans problems during the 20th century.....f^ck them.... Then do the same in Asia, why should we pay to protect the Japs! They started the war and committed horrible war crimes......F^ck them too!
Since America is so unpopular around the world, the number one aid donor should take all of it's toys and money and go home......I can tell you that we would not miss any of them and maybe we could repair our own country for a change.....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

docwilliam says on May 13, 2008, 18:57:

"maybe we could repair our own country for a change....."

AMEN!!!

"There's no time to panic"

romy says on May 13, 2008, 19:22:

it's the cost of the modern empire... if the US is ready to give up its sole superpower status, then sure pull out

docwilliam says on May 13, 2008, 19:34:

That pretty much spells it out Romy

"There's no time to panic"

goin_south says on May 13, 2008, 20:55:

do the Farc that hide out in Ecuador harrass the regular people there, as they do in Colombia??

and, thank you.

billyb says on May 13, 2008, 20:58:

What hiding out? They are welcome and honored guests there ;)

goin_south says on May 13, 2008, 21:05:

now...... answer the Q, señor billy.

and, thank you.

billyb says on May 13, 2008, 21:10:

Of course they do. They might not kidnap Ecuadoreans as much as they kidnap Venezuelan ranchers near the border, but that has more to do with the lack of wealthy ranchers and entrepeneurs on the Ecuadorean side of the frontier compared to the Venezuelan.

romy says on May 15, 2008, 08:07:

Chavez speaks up on the possibility of the base being relocated to La Guajira... I still don't want a US military base in Colombia but the reason should never be a Chavez threat. I'm sure there's more to come on this issue.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/15/america/venez.php
Chávez warns Colombia not to allow U.S. base
The Associated Press
Thursday, May 15, 2008

CARACAS: President Hugo Chávez warned Colombia not to allow a U.S. military base on its border with Venezuela, saying he would regard such an act as "aggression."

Chávez said Wednesday that he would not let the U.S.-backed Colombian government establish an American military base in La Guajira, a region spanning northeastern Colombia and northwestern Venezuela.

The Venezuelan leader said that if Colombia allowed the base, his government would revive an old territorial conflict and claim the entire region.

"We will not allow the Colombian government to give La Guajira to the empire," Chávez said, referring to the United States in a speech before an auditorium of uniformed soldiers. "Colombia is launching a threat of war at us."

Chávez said Washington's top diplomat in Bogotá, Ambassador William Brownfield, recently suggested that a U.S. military base in Ecuador could be moved to La Guajira.

President Rafael Correa of Ecuador, a close Chávez ally, has repeatedly said that he will not renew a 10-year lease on the base in the Pacific port of Manta when it expires next year.

Surveillance flights the United States runs from Manta represent 60 percent of drug interdiction in the eastern Pacific.

Diplomatic relations between Caracas and Bogotá worsened last week when Colombia unveiled documents allegedly showing that Chávez sought to arm and finance Colombian rebels. Chávez denies the allegation.

romy says on May 15, 2008, 08:20:

OK, Santos is saying that there will be no military base in Colombia (let alone in Guajira)... can we believe him? where else is the US going to relocate if it's closest ally in the region is saying NO.

http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/05/15/pol_art_colombia-niega-plan_8625...
Colombia niega plan para instalar base de Manta en la frontera

"Que no comience otra tormenta en un vaso de agua", dijo el ministro de Defensa

El gobierno colombiano negó hoy que planee autorizar a Estados Unidos la instalación de una base militar en el departamento de La Guajira, fronterizo con Venezuela, después de que el presidente Hugo Chávez asegurara que si eso ocurría reclamaría la soberanía de esa península que hacía parte de su territorio.

"No hay ningún proyecto militar en La Guajira, no está previsto, de manera que no comience otra tormenta en un vaso de agua", advirtió el ministro de Defensa, Juan Manuel Santos, tras la declaración de Chávez, informó DPA.

La instalación de la base militar estadounidense en el departamento de La Guajira fue sugerida por el embajador de Estados Unidos en Colombia, William Brownfield.

"Yo diría a quienes están criticando esa información que se informen mejor porque base no va a haber, repito base en Colombia no va a haber", añadió el funcionario diplomático a periodistas.

Previamente, Chávez había dicho que si Colombia autorizaba la base militar discutirá con Bogotá la soberanía de su país sobre esa región.

billyb says on May 15, 2008, 08:33:

"where else is the US going to relocate if it's closest ally in the region is saying NO."

It is saying NO to a base in La Guajira, that doesn't preclude one elsewhere in Colombia.

romy says on May 15, 2008, 08:35:

ok, read the full article then comment

ie.
"Yo diría a quienes están criticando esa información que se informen mejor porque base no va a haber, repito base en Colombia no va a haber", añadió el funcionario diplomático a periodistas.

billyb says on May 15, 2008, 08:36:

OK, you got me there.

billyb says on May 15, 2008, 08:38:

Although I wouldn't count that as the last we hear on the project.

romy says on May 15, 2008, 08:41:

hey, I don't trust Santos at all... I'm sure we'll hear a different story in a couple of days. Uribe should put a muzzle on the guy already.

billyb says on May 15, 2008, 08:49:

I don't trust, or mistrust him, but he does have a big mouth.

Mr. Hollywood says on May 15, 2008, 20:09:

I'm sure Chavez weighed in already knowing that Colombia wasn't even considering a base in La Guajira. Why would they, there's already one in Aruba doing the same thing? Nothing like two air bases right next to each other, especially one (La Guajira) with big security issues.

romy says on May 15, 2008, 20:20:

actually the US ambassador suggested La Guajira...