Uribe strikes again. Private teachers losing rights

jccg says on Nov 12, 2005, 12:42:

Correction Of course, RCN and CARACOL (and much less CNN) DID NOT say anything at all about this.

This is just the true!!

juancegomez says on Nov 12, 2005, 13:15:

Do try to provide the entire set of facts... More information is needed in order to give an educated opinion on the matter that relies on something more than political passions, at least from my point of view.

In particular it would be necessary to know the overall situation, read the law itself, and to contrast the claims made by the people against it with all that it actually says and means. A few verbal claims aren't facts.

Especially considering how the media, both mainstream and "independent" (independent of one thing, but dependent on another, actually), tends to obscure a few of the facts when dealing with other laws only on a testimonial basis.

I actually seriously doubt that Colombian media outlets never addressed the subject at all, even if not in the same manner and time that other outlets did/are doing elsewhere (and with other interests, logically). You are saying it's an old development, aren't you? Well, that doesn't mean that it didn't show up in Caracol or RCN, just that you haven't found it when searching for it now.

Other than that, it's all too subjective...lo demás es lanzar gritos y consignas anti/pro Uribe al vacío. Empty cries of "VIVA URIBE" or "ABAJO URIBE", whatever, they are exactly the same thing if the facts (including the law itself) are NOT available for discussion and analysis.

juanalejo says on Nov 12, 2005, 13:28:

Vacations If any body can afford having 5 weeks less vacation and still have vacation, then they deserve having those 5 weeks less, for all the years of too much vacation.

jccg says on Nov 12, 2005, 14:03:

Vacations and the law The "Derechos docentes" provides teachers (now, only teachers on Government/public schools) with 5 more weeks of vacations than industrial workers because:
1) Teachers work non paid hours off of school, grading, preparing classes, etc...
2) Theaching is one of the biggest social services someone can do.
3) They NOT ONLY teach their subjects, but also give social education (behavior) to the children.
etc...
In Colombia, theachers have 2 weeks of vacation when children have a month in middle year, and two months off afther academic year (children have 2 and a half months of vacation).
The new law put private teachers at the level of a non-educated industry worker. The law was signed this week or past week, I am not so sure, but is not more than one month old.

"I think it is a little crazy to have 10 to 12 weeks off for summer as it is"

¿....? why not to have slaves, without free time, that's more time for the richs!

PS. the academic calendar is not modifyed, so there will not be more childs getting education.
PS2: In Colombia, a normal industry worker only gets two weeks at year, ¿do you think it is rigth? I think it is almost slavery.
PS3. I do think that abolishing social grants is destroiyng the society.

This is just the true!!

juanalejo says on Nov 12, 2005, 14:11:

Vacation In Colombia an industry worker gets 15 working days off a year which in an industry which works monday to friday it is 3 weeks.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 12, 2005, 14:41:

factoid "Weeks of paid vacation legally mandated in Brazil, Sweden, the EU, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Canada, China, and the U.S., respectively: 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 0, 0"



I am surprised by the figure for Brazil.



Source:

www.motherjones.com/news/exhibit/2005/07/the_road_to_nowhere.html

pepster says on Nov 12, 2005, 14:47:

Teachers get enough time off This country over pays it's cops and teachers. It's a myth that teachers do not make good money..they do and the more education they have such a masters the more money. Teachers in my area start off at 30-40k and after 5 years w/ a masters are 70-80k. That's with SUMMERS off and holidays plus their conventions.

Boo hoo hoo...and the tenure. Christ...how much do they want.

In Colombia, I do not know the situation well but knowing Uribe's politics somewhat...I'd support him.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

jccg says on Nov 12, 2005, 15:18:

What country are you from pepster? The minimumm amount of money to survive (owning a hause) in colombia (Costo de la canasta familiar) is 1.4 million pesos, 400mil (minimmum salary) pesos are nothing!. A professional teacher (licenciado) starts from (more or less, I am not so sure) 800mil, not enough. A teacher with 30 years of experience, in 14 level make more or less 1.8 millions of pesos. barely enough to survive alone.
PS: a mediumm level administrator makes 3-6 million pesos in a bank.

This is just the true!!

pepster says on Nov 12, 2005, 15:28:

jccg I'm from the states.

I still need more info on these teachers...I knew a few private teachers in Colombia that pulled 3 to 4 million pesos a month.

Of course..these were good schools.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

mwangaza says on Nov 12, 2005, 16:24:

Teacher Rights Teaching in Colombia is not a highly desirable profession. Thousands of schools across the country cannot find teachers to teach their students. Perhaps most of these schools are public schools, but most private school teachers in Colombia barely make enough to make ends meet. Where I teach, several teachers work 2 or more jobs during the school year. 5 more weeks of work per year with out compensation means less time these teachers can work earning income on the side in their 2nd and 3rd jobs.

Although Uribe has made great strides in making Colombia a safer country, his social policies clearly lack justice. While many who have fought for political justice in Colombia are mudered or extorted into silence, a president should show more leadership. The problem is that Colombians, in general, are not politically informed nor do they feel empowered to enact change by exercising their right to vote. Where I live mearly 35% of the citizens voted in the last mayoral election! To Colombians Uribe looks pretty good next to past presidents who have been shown to have had connections with drug cartels or taken political bribes.

Recognizing that education is a great vehicle for social change and a necessity to move toward more equality in Colombia and realizing that only 56% of Colombians graduate from high school, Uribe's move to weaken the educational system (if what jccg reports is true) by demanding more work from teachers without compensation will only increase the teacher shortage across Colombia and dash the hopes of many young Colombians whose only hope of earning a livable wage lies in receiving a strong education.

Rubiazo says on Nov 12, 2005, 17:40:

Tinto I think you are off on Brazil It's four weeks vacation. BUT you get an extra monthly salary in December, so you can go and make the stores a little richer for xmas :) Brazil's social contract is just a hair right of Marxism, and unfortunately it has a lot of the OPPOSITE effect, forcing many companies to hire under the table or bust, and leaving the system for a charmed circle to enjoy. Actually, this is also the way things are going in Canada for the same reasons.

MW, in most municipalities in Canada or the US, 35% is about what turnouts are running for mayoral electrions. Incidentally, in Brazil, the vote is MANDATORY, whether its for a candidate or a referendum.
They just had a BIG one there on the possible blanket banning of the sale or possession of firearms.

Damn JGGC, you need to check out my thread. I did just FINE in a month on 1.5 million pesos. And I was living pretty high off the hog too! But 800k is gonna be a little tighter. But that's not to say I don't think that teachers should be paid a lot more. I think they should start at 2 million and go up from there, just like most of the other professions.


I think the OP has a bit of a language problem. He is saying 'profesor' but means 'teacher', by our wording. In Colombia, they have some CRAZY year round schedule, or at least they do in Bogota. They get time off for national holidays and then they get a week or two every so often. Different private schools often have wildly varying schedules during the year.

The kids would probably get the same instructional time under the new rules but teachers would be required to attend 'training workshops' and stuff like that. They are pulling the same crap up here in NY.

Lucia Rojas says on Nov 13, 2005, 08:26:

Teaching is hard, time consuming (you work at home every day), very important, requires good mental health to be a good example, stressful, very personal and self-involving, tiring... teachers deserve the vacations they get.

As should everyone. Everyone should have longer vacations... good for mental health.

So what exactly is a private teacher? Who does it apply to? I certainly didn`t know about this.
Vut it's not surprising... he is the same president that when told that teenage pregnancy was a public health problem (1 out of every 5) said: Que se abstengan! and never talked about it again. Education is the last thing on his violence-obssesed mind.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 13, 2005, 09:16:

teachers in Sweden have to work 1767 hours per year, 1360 of those hours have to be worked at the school, the rest are used for correcting homework, preparing classes etc. additional work that can be carried out outside the classroom or school building. An average starting salary for an "Early Education=K-4th grade" teacher is around 20 000 Swedish krona (US2500 a month). The teachers have typically 2 months off in the summer, plus additional 5 weeks during the school year: one week in oct-november, 2 weeks at Christmas-New Year, one week in Feb-March and one week at Easter-spring. The salary is considered very low for somebody who has studied 4 years at the university and holds a degree.

Tinto, that 5 wk yearly vacation in Sweden is also slightly inaccurate. You get 5 weeks up to the age of 40, after that it's 6 weeks, and when you turn 50 you get a couple of additional days to that.

Teaching must be one of the least appreciated jobs in the world. I find it extremely significant that in PISA study comparing the educational levels of 14-year-olds in different countries in areas of reading and reading comprehension, mathematics and science the countries where teachers enjoyed a high status like FINLAND came in the first place.

Cheers,
Desi



Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Rubiazo says on Nov 13, 2005, 18:27:

I'm with ya on that Desi I think teachers AND police should be much more highly trained AND highly paid. Japan is a good example of a society that takes both professions seriously. They have a lot less police per person but BOY are those guys respected.

Just out of curiosity, how many of those krona are taken out in taxes?

Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 13, 2005, 19:45:

A little perspective This cracks me up... "PS2: In Colombia, a normal industry worker only gets two weeks at year, ¿do you think it is rigth? I think it is almost slavery."

I would urge you, JCCG, to go visit the old fort in Cartagena. Go down in the deep, hot, dark tunnels there. Imagine being locked up for weeks, months, years, in those underground chambers, forced to build walls and towers and fortresses by hand during the day, until you finally drop dead.

THAT, my friend, is slavery.

jccg says on Nov 15, 2005, 12:02:

"So what exactly is a private teacher? Who does it apply to? " I meant teachers in private schools, i.e. those that do not have contract with the goverment but with private institutions.

This is just the true!!