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Understanding Colombianas

Okay, I posted about six months ago when I initially separated with my Gringa wife. (http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/single-in-colombia/) I am an executive living in Colombia, have been here for some years -- but always married and hanging out mostly with the stiffer side of the business community. People on this forum gave me some good, if irreverent advice to my last post. I took it to heart and have had some odd experiences being single after twenty years of marriage (!) Women here seem both completely ruthless and weirdly romantic; Miss Jekyll and Miss Hyde! It's quite odd; they are willing to offer themselves up to you emotionally in the most apparently guileless and sweet way, but as soon as you politely decline the offer, the same romantic young woman who was staring bright-eyed at you seconds earlier suddenly stands up, kisses you on the cheek, and walks away without looking back. I am not talking about prepagos -- I am talking about "good girls". And yet I think that if I'd accepted any of these offers the girl in question would have suddenly been revoltingly romantic till the end of time. It's tough for me to understand; I am too practical to understand the schizophrenia. I am not nearly as ruthless as these girls are. I should add that I have no trouble getting dates in my own country. I suppose pride may play a part, and unhappiness at rejection.

Here's my question. Recently at a cocktail I met a hot young woman who seemed rather persistent at getting my number, alleging professional interest. (Which is possible, given that I am twenty years older than she is I didn't think so much about the dating possibility) However, I texted her on a pretext, she texted me back, and kept texting me every other day (never more), and after a couple of weeks and my profession of great desire to dine with her we went out on a date in one of the better restaurants in Bogota. We talked for hours, had a wonderful time she wrote me a passionate thank you note, and the next day I flew off on an international trip for two weeks. During my trip she would text me every other day -- never more -- is there some Latina dating text rule about this? I was spending a lot of time in airports, and whenever I was waiting around we would pass an hour or two texting each other. She was very friendly. I called her a few times from around the world and we would talk. I expressed strong interest in dating her but she kept dodging the question, but still keeping constantly in touch, and telling me in a friendly way that she would tell me when we could go out to dinner. Perhaps she is currently dating somebody? Since my return she has become much more difficult to get hold of yet continues every other day to text me; I decided not to contact her any more. Yet the other day she traveled to another city and as soon as she arrived there texted me to chat -- from a distance. What's she doing? Adding me to her stable of potential sugar-daddies (I make about 100 times more than she does and she can guess that.) I'd guess she's estrato three or four. Has lived abroad. From the coast, originally. Is this some weird Colombian hard to get strategy or is she trying to blow me off?

I am about ready to lose her number -- the Colombian sea is very large, with many fish! -- But I do find this woman charming and don't understand if the problem is that I just don't understand Latina etiquette rules and some need to be bizarre. This has been going on for
a month. I realize I will get ragged in the replies to this post, but I would appreciate any insight you can provide into the Colombiana mind.

By LifeChange on Nov 2, 2009, 16:43 in Friendly Talkzone.


theflatline says on Nov 2, 2009, 16:48:

She knows what she is doing.

You need to stand your ground and let her know that you are not just available when she sees fit. It sounds like she is weighing her options. My advice is to just lay it on the line and and if she remains "trifling" then move on.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Saltador says on Nov 2, 2009, 16:56:

Agree with flatline that she is just keeping you as an option
I wouldn't waste any more time trying to figure her out. Ignore her. She'll either come around or you'll be off to greener pastures.

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johnny2009 says on Nov 2, 2009, 16:56:

She is a bot, it looks like she is using the Comcel "text my gringo" service, it uses an Autonomy Cambridge cognitive analysis engine to send appropriate responses once every 48 hours (although this is user customisable)

It is a phenomenal piece of technology, I once implemented it for Marks and Spencers to tell Surrey housewives by SMS when they needed to buy more cheese

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babygirl says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:14:

Agree with the guys on this. It's one thing to be cute and flirty and dangle the bait to get asked out again BUT who has time for games.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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theflatline says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:15:

Ignore here and she will more than likely show up one night with a tooth brush and a change of clothes.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

1 funny, 1 helpful.

babygirl says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:21:

Who?? Moi?? I don't even know this man TFL. Sheesh.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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roloenNJ says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:23:

Leave this girl alone...she is already playing the games. I think you been there and done that so move on!

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yadid10 says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:24:

Forget about her and move on, unless you just looking to have some fun, there is no future of a serious relationcheap with a woman that is seeing you as here second or third option.

there are many beautiful intelegent woman you can meet here that are honest and will be interest in you as a first option.
i recommend you to look for woman that are above 30 years and that are estrato 5,6. this way there is much more chances it going to be real thing, and not a gringo hunter that wants you money.

if you decide to come to live in medellin i can present you some woman like that.

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theflatline says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:27:

Yadid,

There are some nice estrato 3,4 women, and on a whole, that "middle class" is where the majority of the good women are.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:37:

I agree with TFL, except she would not show up with a toothbrush. She would want you to buy one - along with a few other items on her list.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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davidyamiga says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:37:

LifeChange...heed the advice given here. Do not communicate with her anymore. No texts. No calls. No nothing. Move on. There are many ladies that are just as sophisticated and better that may be waiting for you. Do not waste more time with this lady.

Otra vez en casa...Cali!

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LifeChange says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:41:

Good advice. I just deleted her. I feel better already.

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johnny2009 says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:44:

LifeChange says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:41 (today): flag

Good advice. I just deleted her. I feel better already.

¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿

You killed her?

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theflatline says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:45:

Robert,

Yep, and as a single man you should have always have a few spare toothbrushes, tampons, pads, good girly champo, and some travel size cream and lotions.

Nothing worse than that beautiful girl staying over and when you get up in the morning she is sitting on your toilet peeing with the door open yelling out "i hope you don't mind, I am using your toothbrush".

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

babygirl says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:46:

Yeah!! Good for you. But the question is when she sends you your bi-daily text, are you going to respond? ;)

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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johnny2009 says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:48:

Get with the plot Babygirl
she is dead
he killed her

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babygirl says on Nov 2, 2009, 17:51:

damn... glad I didn't show up with my toothbrush then ;)

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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Londoner says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:05:

Pedro says "Pardon me for being so frank, but are you sure she's not a hooker / prepago?In Colombia you can never be sure,irrespective of class.

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LifeChange says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:05:

Good family. Known family. Impossible to be a prepago in the job she does in ordinary life. But definitely a mess-with-your-head type lady. And I am blocking her.

It's interesting that nobody picked up on my other comment about how ruthless the women are here, if they decide they're after you aggressively. When it became known I was single I invited a lawyer over to lunch. She came with her sister, and the two checked me out for like two hours. I did a great meal, best wines, etc. when suddenly the sister suddenly found out she had an urgent appointment, and "had to go" leaving me with the lady (in her late twenties) who suddenly became like a movie parody of a seductress. She was cute but it didn't feel right. I told her so as nicely as possible. It was weirdly businesslike. It was like the "romance" light went off, I kissed her good bye, and that was the end of it. This is a tough society for women, I think.

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webmanco says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:12:

Most colombianas can´t believe you are single or had no kids, beein in your thirties.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:14:

She has a boyfriend...duh! So one thing you should know about Colombian women and that is that they can not be alone. They will always stay in a relationship until a trade up or off is possible.

I have found that women here are emotionally shallow for the most part and play in love rather than really have any capacity to have a meaningful relationship. They are constantly looking to trade up it is something that men here accept and so we are to play the same game. The emotional change you see in them when you reject them is because it is a game. They are so insecure that they must conquer you. If not they internalize that shit and it is ugly. Imagine you have a relationship with one of them Oh boy! It is not good.

I would get your mind adapted to Colombian life if I were you.

This is how a Colombian would handle this girl. Continue to text her and have your fun as it is, if you can nail her well then all the better, keep her on the line you never know when you might want a date or her boyfriend might go on vacation or god forbid they break up and then you are batter up. But for sure do not go exclusive to her. If she asks lie to her.

The one thing you can forget about is having a meaningful relationship with a Colombiana. They are not capable of this and it is all about the game. You have got to keep yourself on the market with many options in the female department in order to keep a woman interested in you here. Loyalty is not something they value even though they may say it. It is all about the competition and without that they lose interest.

So that is my advice from a lot of experience with Colombian women. Forget about having a relationship and just stick with having fun. k?

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:15:

Wait you deleted her?????? Dude your not going to survive in Colombia. Your heart is gonna get chewed up. WHY? You think your gonna find a real relationship here like you had with your gringa? Dude your not in the real world my friend.

Still time to play she will text you again. So your error will go unoticed. Play the field my good man and have fun, there is nothing else to be had here.

You will not take my advice probably but it is the best your gonna get.

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Londoner says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:15:

Colombianas are certainly ruthless.They are the Nigerians of South America.

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LifeChange says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:20:

You guys are completely cynical. I find it very refreshing. It's a nice escape from the day-to-day routine. But in the end, I deleted her phone number and left her in my text messenger program. It will be an experiment. I will not text her nor will I call her, and see what happens next. I will find out whether the cynics were right. (Though in my experience, the cynics are ALWAYS right.) In the meantime, I will experimentally try something different. Where is the best place to meet the early thirties, okay female crowd in Bogota?

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LifeChange says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:22:

By the way, Londoner, I agree totally with the Nigerian comparison. Spot on. In many many ways.

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Londoner says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:23:

Cynical is best with Colombianas.You,ll get hurt less,and it,ll cost you less.

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:25:

Depends on what you want to meet. If you want to meet the visa hunter well zona rosa Irish pub or any disco works, 93 park. If you want to meet a nice girl Colombian as a gringo well you might try Miami? I have given up on it. 7 years and it is useless. It is too hard to tell the players from the sinceras and so I leave it to you my good man. You just have to be vulnerable and open to find out what you have and the odds I realize are just not there for el gringo. Good luck.

For me I am just going to play the field and have fun doing it. The only guys I know in Colombia that are gringos and that are not crying in their beers are the ones doing it like that. F'em and forget'em. Let them call you and don't answer, they will call back, they will write text show up a your house. JAJA You know your in control and that is the only way to be. If you want to call them and ask about their day? You know they are in control.

You can hang with us one night if you want. Send me a text if your in Bogota.

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Londoner says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:28:

As for the early thirties,okay female crowd in Bogota,I don,t know the city but I,ve noticed that crowd in the Avianca executive lounge in Eldorado.Looked good to me.

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LifeChange says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:34:

Yeah, a friend of mine got harassed to the point of madness by a woman in exactly that category he met in exactly that place. I am beginning to think I never should have separated.. The devil you know is better than the devils that you have to go through to get to the next one! I told a Colombian friend that I was interested in that profile, he said impossible -- they'll all have a brood of bratty kids to make life hell.

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yadid10 says on Nov 2, 2009, 18:42:

oneforyourmillion

not all colombian girls are like that, i know many that aren't. i have here in medellin female friends that are single. and when they did have a boyfriend they finished the realtionsheap usually because the guy was cheating on them or wasn't mature enough. its true there are many girls stay with their boyfriend even thow they don't love him or sometimes even like him, because they can't bare being alone, but you can also find the ones who prefer to be alone than with a person they don't love. and with these girls youll allways be more happy . . .
of course many will also tell you their single when they are actually dating someone else, for these ones you need to know how to get the trouth out. usually by suprising them with full weekend plan (to a farm or a beach).

foreigners could have a big advantage because they treat the women good, and as colombian men in general have a bad reputation. but the sex tourism here is destroying foreigners name and mosy decent women i talk to thinks most foriegn men that comes to medellin only wants prepago, putas or sluty girls.
if you show them your serious, that your making a buisness or have a job here, and that your not just looking for easy target. then youll have a chance to meet really nice women here, that are honest and loving.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 2, 2009, 19:29:

Kick her ass to the curb so hard that you leave a permanent print of your shoe on her butt. A chick like this is a peso a dozen in Colombia. Here is the best advice you can follow while you're in Colombia: Find them, fock them, forget them.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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La_Huella says on Nov 2, 2009, 20:43:

I agree with OFM here actually except for sometimes cutting them off does wonders.... which makes sense given his original premise....

What is SPOT ON is his assessment of the situation... the girl is keeping you on ice in case she needs you but you're not top priority... she's got another man (at least) that is higher up on the list than you are. That's how they work here... there's currently a girl that's madly in love with her new bf but she keeps talking to me because I'm on deck.... they have come close to breaking up twice and she is all over my facebook and sending messages and shit each time... then when they reconcile she slows down a bit... but she's always keeping me in her sights... it woulda been nice to have beaten the guy out and gotten in with her but at least I know that I'm next in line... of course it's not like I'm waiting...

This is all just human nature but they are just not subtle about it here in Colombia... they are very pragmatic about these things... they are in the business of doing as well as they can in relationships and don't have time for stupid ideals to get in the way....

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theflatline says on Nov 2, 2009, 20:49:

I will quote my sainted Colombian grandmother who told me at 19 years old when I first started dating Colombian women.

Junior, you need to learn from your father. Be respectful, a gentlemen, and stand your ground to the point of being ruthless, because if you do not those sweet little pretty things will walk all over you. Watch a Colombiana and her man walking down the street, he might be wearing the pants, pero quien manda?

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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theflatline says on Nov 2, 2009, 22:27:

NJC,

Nothing beats the original Betty La Fea. I was in country at the time and watched it beginning to end.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 04:41:

"but the sex tourism here is destroying foreigners name and mosy decent women i talk to thinks most foriegn men that comes to medellin only wants prepago, putas or sluty girls.
if you show them your serious, that your making a buisness or have a job here, and that your not just looking for easy target. then youll have a chance to meet really nice women here, that are honest and loving."

This is all just human nature but they are just not subtle about it here in Colombia... they are very pragmatic about these things... they are in the business of doing as well as they can in relationships and don't have time for stupid ideals to get in the way....

Agree 300% with these comments.

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CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 3, 2009, 05:44:

"the girl is keeping you on ice in case she needs you but you're not top priority... she's got another man (at least) that is higher up on the list than you are. That's how they work here"

Thats how it works here in the U.S. too. The pretty ladies have two or three boyfriends until they figure out which one offers the best deal. A lot of these women will wait years for their rich dream guy. A lot never find what they are looking for and end up old and alone.

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davidyamiga says on Nov 3, 2009, 06:09:

Bitter old men....

Otra vez en casa...Cali!

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Bluesdude says on Nov 3, 2009, 06:44:

Like when I dumped this gringa for lying to me, took off for Colombia for three months then came back.... She had heard from a mutual friend that I was back... Her phone message: "Hi, I heard you were back and was wondering if you wanted to get together for dinner. You know I have changed a lot and things would be different now. Well, call me if you feel like it." As I was driving down the road after listening to the message, these thoughts: Do I feel like it? Do I feel like it? Hell No! I don't feel like it." I have never regretted it. Keep this bimbo that you dumped in a state of dumpedness and get on with your life.

A guru once said, "the mind is like a drunken monkey." If that's true, then my mind is an orangutan on a binge

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 06:51:

Yes well makes me wonder why you makopp5 and Davidyamiga have such a wonderful life yet spend all your time preoccupied with whatever it is I wite or preoccupied with my life???????????????????? Among others doing this it is some level of pathetic that really I have never known in my life.

You don't see me all following your posts around and making comments about you????????? WHY? because frankly I have a life, you clearly do not. Obvio

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davidyamiga says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:01:

Million...there is a saying...if you do not have anything positive to write, then do not write. In all your postings, you whine about how the women in Colombia are all whores. That Colombianos are not worth anything. Yet you live among us. I question why you do so if you hate it so much? The same goes for all who have the same atittude.

Otra vez en casa...Cali!

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:04:

Good then boys post all your positive experiencs then to counter my negative ones. Try that and a little less attacking me huh? Whatyasay?

There is a saying? "if you do not have anything positive to write, then do not write." JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
david

Holy sh%t batman someone hold the press!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:08:

Well tell us about your wonderful positive expeience with a Colombian I assume woman?

Where did you meet her? You still with her? How is she? etc? Never seen you post a thing like that. hmmm?
I smell dooty.....

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:14:

JAJA oh ok jakkoff tell me how and who I am and who I go out with. Where did you meet her? Tell us all about your experience? I would really like to know all about it so I can learn from you. I really need your experience to help me understand. So tell me please?

You lived with her here in Colombia for 5 years? ummm???? Nope you took her to the states did you not? Apples to apples bud, if you can't do it then set down.

I had a very good relationship with a Colombain woman in the states that is double your 5 years, comming to Colombia is what did that in.

So tell us all about what you think you know? Your positive experience.

Flood the board with all the good stuff you have learned.........

Instead of constantly attacking me????

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:19:

"one
I`m married now 5 years happly to my wife. And I know several other man who have the same experiance, but if somebody just hang around with hookers and prepagos or estrado 1 girls, might be you have your experiance because you are negative and you are getting caught by same waves"
makkoff

OK again you have a micro sentence about your own wonderful life and then a mile long sentence exploring your fantasies about me. Maybe you want to be me?

Tell me more about your wife? Where did you meet her? All the wonderful details. I am waiting...........

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oneforyourmillion says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:42:

yep just what I figured... notin.

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theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 07:46:

what is the difference between a hooker and a prepago? Whore semantics?

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 3, 2009, 08:13:

Another good one! Semantics... some people think if you say it in a different language it sounds more elegant.. Like a Brit saying Schedule! jajajajaj lol

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

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suizo says on Nov 3, 2009, 08:14:

I pitty all the guys on here who have had so bad experiences in their past. Geeez...you're 40 or 50 and all you can say about the women is this? That's really fucked up.

Crackheads suck!

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kenziejones says on Nov 3, 2009, 08:44:

FL, ditch her permanently. Games suck. There are [fortunately] enough fine ladies here in Med that it actually creates competition between them for men -- you don't often see this in other parts of the world. Enjoy it and take advantage of it while you can.

Also, I don't care how much money you do or don't have, do NOT ever pay for stuff for a Colombiana unless it's just a random drink at the pub. They're not worth it -- that is part of their survival game, to prey on gringos in order to make it through their days financially. I've learned this years ago and refuse to spend an extra peso/dollar/quai/whatever on anyone I have not known for some time and completely trust.

Tasting the world one hot pepper at a time!

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webmanco says on Nov 3, 2009, 08:56:

No hay quien las entienda, no solo las colombianas, mujeres en general.


Still can´t live without them.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 08:57:

makkopp5.

A hooker is a hooker is a hooker. Whether she is working in a whore house or peddling in on the street. That is like cab drivers when the say "conozco una nenas bien lindas y sanas, que hacen milagros por una platica, pero no son putas".

If she is asking you to pay the light bill, make a credit card payment, or but her a new cell phone within a few days, weeks, months of dating, she is a hooker. Because she is bartering her affections for something she wants or needs.

I have never had a bad experience of my 25 years of dating in both of my countries, but I have seen some doozies, especially in Colombia.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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suizo says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:01:

"I have never had a bad experience of my 25 years of dating in both of my countries"

This board is full of crazy people...

Crackheads suck!

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davidyamiga says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:03:

Suizo....crazy and liars.

Otra vez en casa...Cali!

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suizo says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:06:

davidyamiga...didn't want to go that far...but guess you're right.

Crackheads suck!

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theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:13:

Suizo and David,

I am never had a woman ask me for money or run around on me, that is what I mean about bad experiences. I have had knock down drag out screaming matches, been slapped, had crap thrown at me, and had an ex show up drunk at a birthday party and insult everyone. And I have dated my share of jealous woman, and one hot girl who got fat.

Does it make me a liar because I have never been a sugar daddy?

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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suizo says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:28:

"I have had knock down drag out screaming matches, been slapped, had crap thrown at me, and had an ex show up drunk at a birthday party and insult everyone"

Wow...guess now I'd prefer to be a sugar daddy...

Crackheads suck!

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theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:32:

Suizo,

I have probably have had 15 steady girlfriends since I was in high school in the 1980s. And when you break up with someone, call them out on something, some will usually snap. Especially latin women. I guess you have never been around many Puerto Ricans.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:40:

I would say in order of temper in my experience.

1. Boricua - there is a sudden switch that turns them into ill-mannered loud mouths
2. Braziliana - super jealous
3. Paisa - great women, my personal favorites, but they can be hard headed.

I am a nice easy going low key guy who does not like to argue or fight, I do not have that part of the latin culture in me, no drama, but sometimes for true latinas that is like oil and water. They need the drama to survive.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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suizo says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:44:

I've had some latin women...not many though and no Puerto Rican. Thanks for the warning. You have my sympathies with regard to the beating and insults you received ;-) I hope the colombianas are no that violent.

Crackheads suck!

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theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 09:55:

Suizo,

Never took a beating, the one Colombiana who slapped me was a long time girlfriend and she had had a bad day and was taking it out on me and I was on the phone and said to a friend in english"man i love her but she is being a little bitchy lately" and she looked up bitch and saw perra-female dog-whore and slapped the piss out of me and broke her pinky. Then her brother told her that bitchy just meant grumpy and she felt pretty bad.

Ten years later we are still pretty good friends.

Colombian women are great at being passive aggressive. They call you mi amor and mi cielo even when angry, so unless you really have a handle on the language and the culture you can be in for a shit storm.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

2 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 3, 2009, 10:15:

The worst beating I took from a woman was from a furious half black, half Japanese chick. She took a bar stool to me and busted my elbow. She caught me talking to another chick on the phone.

I remember Elmo's story of getting a lamp busted upside his head by his wife. I think she was Paisa.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lisa Zee says on Nov 3, 2009, 10:15:

I think...
A) She has a boyfriend
B) She does not find you attractive
C) " " " " " " but you have $ so she is thinking how she can get it.
D) She is from estrato 6 and don't think you are cultural compatible.
E) Show me a picture of you and her, and I will tell you in a minute what is wrong....

Good luck with the next one if you REALLY deleted this one ;)
P/S try finding a woman closer to your age, and same level of education as yours.

Vive la vida y deja vivir!.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 3, 2009, 10:18:

We definitely need to see a picture to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

2 funny, 1 helpful.

Lisa Zee says on Nov 3, 2009, 10:26:

Jajajaja, yes we must!

Vive la vida y deja vivir!.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

panthercat187 says on Nov 3, 2009, 10:57:

So glad I looked at the digest today. Great thread! jajaja Really looking forward to moving back to Colombia next year after leaving when I was 3.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

scumbuster says on Nov 3, 2009, 11:00:

I agree with Lisa and Robert. If we saw pictures of both of you we could properly diagnose the problem.. jajajaja
Without pictures its purely speculation. :P

Tomas Jefferson “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”

0 funny, 1 helpful.

La_Huella says on Nov 3, 2009, 12:19:

RK don't be asking for pics when you are holding out on us...

That reminds me I have a bite mark scar on my left arm that EXACTLY matches Elmo's... from my future ex.... jajajajajajaaj.... I have to remember to show him next time I see him...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

suizo says on Nov 3, 2009, 13:03:

flatline
"I was on the phone and said to a friend in english"man i love her but she is being a little bitchy lately" and she looked up bitch and saw perra-female dog-whore and slapped the piss out of me"

One of my friends calls me "dawg"...hope my gf doesn't look that up!!

Luckily, I've never experienced violent women, apart from my colombian gf dragging me out of a club by my hair... but I deserved it. So, no big deal.

Crackheads suck!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Juepaje says on Nov 3, 2009, 13:24:

My ex-wife, Colombiana, tried to bump me and my father off via rat poison. Didn't work so she used a witch called 'Ël Mister' during our divorce process. My mechanic found a bag under my truck with human hand bones in it. I had a lot of bad mojo for a long time and went to several good witches who all refused to help me because of the man who originated the spell. Well, I lived through it all but you want to talk about crazy assed Colombianitas? Buy me some rum and I can tell you some stories dude. Si hay muchas locas en la costa de Colombia. Elmo can tell you probably more than I can imagine. I have given up trying to understand them and just learn to live with them while keeping my sanity.

Sic enim dilexit Deus mundum ut Filium suum unigenitum daret ut omnis qui credit in eum non pereat sed habeat vitam aeternam.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

excavator59 says on Nov 3, 2009, 13:46:

Even after 18 years with one I will never understand them ,strange pieces of work,but I still love them!

Life is like a Pubic Hair on a Toilet Seat (Sooner or Later you get Pissed Off)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ETERNALNY says on Nov 3, 2009, 13:56:

I would recommend this website..
http://us1.badoo.com/
There area lot of fish in the sea...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 3, 2009, 14:10:

Unfortunately Elmo no longer is with us.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 3, 2009, 14:20:

What the F happened to ELMO? Did he ask to be deleted or did he get deleted by somebody?.. He seemed to be "conforming" the best he could to PBH protocol. Has to be a new Darloup incident, but when?

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 3, 2009, 14:26:

Elmo, Antithesis, and johanna911 all got flushed from the Toilet Bowl at the same time...

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 3, 2009, 14:27:

Sapo and RAAAY are sharing scuba gear mouthpieces in the Fish Bowl...

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 3, 2009, 14:28:

several turds got away before the flush and are still amongst us.......

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 3, 2009, 14:46:

Holy Smokes.. It doesnt show his profile it says no such user.. Cant be the end of an era can it be? They seem to have itchy trigger fingers with the delete and fish bowl buttons lately.

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 3, 2009, 15:09:

He (Elmo) seemed to really try to behave, but then a certain poster would say something patently stupid, and Elmo would react eventually. Then after the bait was taken and all Hell broke loose, the certain antagonist seemed to just disappear.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 3, 2009, 15:10:

Viva The Three Stooges!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 15:36:

That would be antagonists RJ. One of those even threatened murder and accused another of having syphilis. Two people who are having there own pity party because no one can stand them, even after people gave them more than once chance to be decent over and over.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LifeChange says on Nov 3, 2009, 15:39:

Okay, making a comment on this forum is like walking into a situation comedy set in a weird bar with mysterious curmudgeonly characters who have all chosen bizarre appearances as their id photos -- rockers, girls in bikinis, butterflies, cartoon faces, and odd symbols -- who alternatively give sage advice and then all start insulting each other! It's a dangerous place, to be sure, but I did get lots of good advice from all -- well, most -- of you.. (I won't hire a hit man, which one reckless poster seemed to be suggesting as the best course of action).

For the more high-minded analysis, I appreciate it very much and have taken it to heart, and learned a few lessons. Lisa Zee, thanks for putting it all in perspective. Unfortunately I don't do pictures, so I won't be able to get the objective and doubtless heart-wrenching critique if I could do that. But y'all are right. There are too many possible ulterior motives for me to mess with the mujer I initially wrote about. As a half-Colombian friend of mine put it to me recently: "Latinas are all sub-context, while they pretend to be about fun and games."

Another Colombian friend of mine put it to just right the other day: I am too old to go out with girls in their twenties, and women in their thirties are too obsessed with security (and likely, the security of their kids) to take me up on my offer of happy irresponsibility and pointless pleasure. I guess I will go back to my book -- boring, long, and unlikely to get me into trouble.

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Londoner says on Nov 3, 2009, 16:44:

Good post,Lifechange.We,re all experts on Colombianas it seems.I remember a Colombian friend telling me when I first arrived "yes,we,ve got lots of bad guys in Colombia,but any Colombian man will tell you the women are worse".

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 3, 2009, 16:50:

LifeChange, you are smarter than others to not post a pic. But I had to give it a shot. Jajaja Many have taken the bait.

About the avatars, mine is wierder than most. It actually is me, and if it had a higher resolution, one could see I really am the missing link between caveman and humans. I am a walking fire-hazard. I look like an emaciated George the Animal Steel.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 3, 2009, 17:39:

Peter gave Elmo the boot. He must think PBH is bigger than Elmo.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lisa Zee says on Nov 3, 2009, 18:18:

Life change, send me a PM with your and her pic, I promises I will keep it personal. ;)))

Vive la vida y deja vivir!.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miami55 says on Nov 3, 2009, 18:30:

It seems weird that people here are classifying colombian women as bad for what all women do. How many relationships really end well in USA or Colombia? They usually end for a reason - be it the guy or girl. To me, a lot of these posts seem to be from guys that aren't used to dating above average girls in the USA and then come to Colombia and find someone above average and are in out of their league in the first place. You guys are giving woman advice about "colombianas" but in reality its just general information about dealing with any type of woman. Its not easy finding a good relationship anywhere, thats why you date until you find the right one..Dating over the internet and thinking you found "the right one" is only going to lead to problems... if you want to date a colombian.. live in Colombia. "My colombiana left me for another guy.. colombianas are bad" Maybe they just got bored that the only words in spanish that you say are chica, colombiana and novia?

0 funny, 1 helpful.

theflatline says on Nov 3, 2009, 19:17:

i can say mosa, amigovia, amiga con derechos, y about 15 other names for them.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 3, 2009, 19:29:

Or just plain ole.. Oye Grilla! jajajajaja lol But that might tend to get you slapped..

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miami55 says on Nov 3, 2009, 22:45:

me doy cuenta ;)

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Juepaje says on Nov 4, 2009, 01:13:

But hwo many Gringas hire vodoo priests and witch doctors to put bad spells on you? This woman was putting her menstrual blood in my food, washing the walls and bed sheets with some kind of mojo steeling soap and I would wake up every morning with a bar of soap in my pillow and God only know how they made that soap. They say if you do this sort of thing that it comes back double on you. She is now married to a wife beater, is very fat and has two children. He doesn't work and she is the sole support of her family. A friend of hers told me that she is pregnant again. I married a beautiful wife, bought a farm and run a successful business and have other real estate around Cordoba. But I really did lose my mojo for a few months. Now that will end up as someone's quote at the bottom of their posts. I know I either said too much or not enough but I never had a voodoo spell put on me in the US. Colombianas can be insane. I am in my 40's now, so ask me when I am in my 60's if I understand them any better. I only have 15 years experience with them.

Sic enim dilexit Deus mundum ut Filium suum unigenitum daret ut omnis qui credit in eum non pereat sed habeat vitam aeternam.

3 funny, 0 helpful.

El Expatriado says on Nov 4, 2009, 03:39:

Why do you even bother to publish such a contentious subject. Mightas well put "understanding the big bang theory using advanced quantum mchanics"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Nov 4, 2009, 04:07:

"Maybe they just got bored that the only words in spanish that you say are chica, colombiana and novia?"

The only words I know are culito, verga, chucha etc.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Juepaje says on Nov 4, 2009, 04:16:

That's because you are from Texas.

Sic enim dilexit Deus mundum ut Filium suum unigenitum daret ut omnis qui credit in eum non pereat sed habeat vitam aeternam.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 04:57:

Makkopp

Brother you met your Colombiana in the USA??? Man you got no right to judge me then. I am stuck here in Colombia and if you think for one para second that the Colombian women living in the US compare in some way to here in the lions den? Dude you are completely all wet.

What you know about Colombia is what your girl tells you or what you learned on a visit. Come live here for 7 years and tell me I am wrong. You won't be able to. Your not better than me you just don't have the experiences that I do. You never will.

But I am happy for you and your relationship. If she ever tries to talk you into moving to Colombia with her? You say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Ok? It will be the end of your relationship.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 05:05:

Well tell me more about it? You lived in Colombia when? In the good years? I remember the good years in Colombia very well. I also know how things are now. Where are you living now and how long have you been out of Colombia?

The gringo used to be able to meet a good girl here. I think those days are over, I am standing by that belief. Tell me where you are and when was the last time you lived permanently in Colombia to tae the other side of this observation of mine?

Oh and I don't beleive you. I think you have been comming for 16 years maybe but living here? naaa Show me?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 05:09:

Sorry but I don't have time to go back and read all your posts and thanks for the insult you little worm, but how about keeping on this subject?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 05:09:

Oh and I don't beleive you. I think you have been comming for 16 years maybe but living here? naaa Show me?

OH I don't believe you because I can read and I have read your posts.

How did you get your visa? 16 years huh? hmmm? Were you retired? Did you get married to a Colombiana?hmm? tell me?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 05:12:

JAJA

where are you living now and when did you leave Colombia?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 05:13:

or do I need to go to DAS and get a migration report?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 05:15:

If you want just give me your full name, date of birth and I will find out everything about you and then post it. Does that work? Or is it easier to just tell me?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 4, 2009, 09:25:

ONE, why would ANYBODY give you any personal information? Don't make empty threats against MAKO..

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 09:38:

He wanted me to look up his information? What threat? how am I going to look up his information without his name? Shall I look up makopp5?

You don't know what a threat is so take your bull walking. What you gonna do about it anyway tough guy? Scold me on the internet? I already know none of you got the balls to talk shit to my face. So what? huh? What? jaja

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 4, 2009, 09:49:

jajajajajaaajaj, You are one high strung keyboard warrior tough guy, thats for sure. I want no part of you.. lol

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 09:51:

Well you started it? JAJAAJA

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 4, 2009, 09:56:

Rumor has it that you are still mentally recovering from a scopolamine poisoning. How is that recovery going?

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 09:58:

rumor has it you got no sense of humor how is that going?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Nov 4, 2009, 10:02:

Yes, you're right about that.. I am probably the most non humorous guy in this forum and I hardly ever laugh.. I wish I could change that... So I guess the rumor about you being scalped is NOT true.. sorry about that mix up..

"PAY ATTENTION! I wonder if that person knows that when we push the FUNNY button, its because we are reading something outrageous, trying to be cynical, derogatory, sarcastic and/or obnoxious!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 10:06:

Well it was it was some time ago. Guess the rumors are still flying huh? I am more careful what sort I hang out with these days so I imagine the rumors are getting thin? Sorry about that?

I am back to work and doing fine now except for some memory issues and headaches but thanks so much for your concern.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

La_Huella says on Nov 4, 2009, 13:39:

You can get a good girl here. There are tons of them flying around. But the competition is intense and most gringos aren't up to it :P

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Nov 4, 2009, 16:29:

That's because most of them were neutered at a young age.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

La_Huella says on Nov 4, 2009, 21:09:

It's also because they can't dress can't dance don't look good and have no social skills.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 4, 2009, 21:20:

JAJA

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lowell says on Nov 5, 2009, 05:45:

I know several good single women here. I don't know several good gringos that I'd introduce them to. The good ones already have their mates.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Juepaje says on Nov 5, 2009, 10:08:

Damn! Where did Mini-me come from? Now I will have to change my photo again!

Sic enim dilexit Deus mundum ut Filium suum unigenitum daret ut omnis qui credit in eum non pereat sed habeat vitam aeternam.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Buongone says on Nov 5, 2009, 21:18:

Like a good friend once told me. Colombiana Novia. Now ya have a future wife, lover, & a kid all rolled into one. Better get with the program. And watch ya ass. And your pocket book. But then again it's only their business. People can say what they want. For whatever reasons they have. But in the end. It is up to the 2 people to make it work. Like selling cars. No 2 deals are ever the same. But people always have too put in their 2 cents. Is'nt it so that the Gringo way, in the old days was to find a woman. Get married. Buy a house. Little picket fence. Live happily ever after. What a bunch of bullshit that was. I can't count on one hand the people I went to school with that are still married. Maybe one. So you go from there. Remember. No 2 relationships are the same. Like another old saying. Shit Happens!! Sometimes lots of it. Trick is to come out of it all smelling like a Rose!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 6, 2009, 05:01:

Buen yes that is true and I think the motivation of the two is going to play out in particular when the motivation of the man is to sleep with a hot young chick. He is busy with that until one day WHAM! He understands the motivation of his other part and that was to take him to the cleaners. Poor guy...............................

0 funny, 0 helpful.

La_Huella says on Nov 6, 2009, 08:03:

In my case I'm stuck for the most part with university aged chicas... the 30 crowd here looks real good to me, but I find most of them way too closed-minded for my libertine ways. Plus most of them are taken anyways. I could probably be the mozo but I really don't care for that. But believe me if a 25 or 30 or 40 year old is available and appears in my path I am THERE. Mostly I meet girls aged 18-23 though.

Of course here in Colombia it's not the same as in the US. I know an 18 year old about to graduate from university next month...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 6, 2009, 08:30:

Yep I don't look at age anymore either. Too few good ones so that for sure is not going to stop me. I don't care what anyone thinks about it either either older or younger. fokem

0 funny, 0 helpful.

MitchAlvarez says on Nov 10, 2009, 01:31:

are you afraid of her dude? men do that too so whats the deal here?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lowell says on Nov 10, 2009, 06:08:

me 57 - wife 31 and a looker. yeee haaaa

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 10, 2009, 06:30:

20 year age difference is acceptable in Colombia. I'm 47 and my gf is 25.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:09:

Why not? I guess I better dump the current girl and find one younger, she is too old for me! jaja

0 funny, 0 helpful.

CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:24:

Also, masturbation is underrated. Sometimes you are better off wacking off to porno than be in a bad relationship. Look what happened to David Carridine. He was 72 years old and they found him dead while practicing self bondage. He hung himself in a hotel closet while masturbating. They said the rope was also tied around his penis. Maybe he knew something we did'nt know.

davidCar

0 funny, 0 helpful.

CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:32:

Another guy to die from erotic asphyxiation was Michael Hutchence from INXS. These guys might have been on to something.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:32:

There were some people dying from something like that for a while. They hung themselves a little with a mouse trap on their balls. I guess the hanging a little did them in since they lost the use of their legs and then got hung for real. What a way to go!

Yep just straight up masturbation for me. I do it before I go out. That way I make no stupid decissions about some "lady" It just makes the date go better when I am not looking at her tits. jaja

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tasco66 says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:36:

Trying to understand women from any place in the world is a waste of time...

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

1 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:42:

JAJA for real

0 funny, 0 helpful.

CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 10, 2009, 07:50:

True..to understand women you have to go back to prehistoric times. Women have vaginal secretions every day and are ready for sex much more than other mammals. Vaginal secretions were a survival mechanism for them during those times. They traded sex for food and shelter with many different men. During the rough times they had to be more active. They hunted and ran a lot. Thats when their periods would stop. Even these days a woman can run a certain amount of miles and their periods will stop. They can also use sex as a way to get what they need. Of course there are women that are self sufficient. They are the most difficult to figure out. I don't even think they they know whats going on.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 10, 2009, 08:01:

"True..to understand women you have to go back to prehistoric times. Women have vaginal secretions every day and are ready for sex much more than other mammals. Vaginal secretions were a survival mechanism for them during those times. They traded sex for food and shelter with many different men. During the rough times they had to be more active."

I guess we should all wish for this economic crises to deepen. jiji return to the good old days.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 10, 2009, 08:11:

Yes, the hunter gatherer era was much more simple. Scientists can't figure out why humans went the agriculture route. Hunter gatherer only took a few hours a day the most. Agriculture took 12-16 hours a day. It is a mystery.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oneforyourmillion says on Nov 10, 2009, 08:15:

It is still our choice I think whether we hunt or gather. I prefer to hunt.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

esanch36 says on Nov 10, 2009, 08:20:

Its prob because all the meat eating was making cavemen constipated, and when they started eating veggies they were having great chits. Dont underestimate the feeling of a great chit.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

CharlieTheOwl says on Nov 10, 2009, 08:35:

Or maybe the production of alcohol changed things.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

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Is Colombia in an Economic Depression? 35

Single in Colombia 43


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