UK drug users 'damaging Colombia'

mariacvetanoski says on Nov 18, 2008, 06:02:

"Not only is cocaine ripping the country apart through deforestation, landmines are creating amputees on a scale not recognised," he said

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 18, 2008, 06:14:

He added: "Not only that, the money that you use to buy the cocaine goes into the hands of illegal groups that plant mines, kidnap, kill, use terrorism to protect their business."

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 18, 2008, 06:16:

Because supply is scarce, the price of the drug goes up, prompting more people to try trafficking.

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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kalder says on Nov 18, 2008, 06:53:

Good points. If people in the West weren't so bloody selfish and narcissistic, they'd stop financing this trade. But they won't. Unfortunately, like an awful lot of people in London these days, it would seem that a very sizeable minority of my friends and acquaintances think nothing of indulging in a bit of recreational charley. To indulge an appetite for excess, or to take on a bit of risible outlaw chic, or both, I couldn't really say. But when I tell them bluntly that the cost in Colombia of their cheeky little lines, is pregnant women being cut up with chainsaws and kids getting their legs blown off, they look very slightly chastened, nod sheepishly and then get straight back to hoovering it up the minute Kalder fucks off out of the room.

Western consumption of cocaine is a terrible retreat from any sense of responsibility into moral cretinism. All connived at by the powers that be, who as celebrity-struck as any fuckwitted teenager, refuse to prosecute dross like Kate Moss et al.

When it comes to being 'street', 'cool', (or 'groovy') or whatever tiresome self-image obsesses Tom and Tina Wanker these days, the lives of kids don't really count for very much.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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cocoloco says on Nov 18, 2008, 07:42:

Supply and demand. that's what it all boils down to. If Colombia disappears from the face of the earth, another Colombia will emerge.

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PBHjon says on Nov 18, 2008, 08:03:

kalder, it could be argued cogently that the problem is not your friends' casual use of cocaine, it is the widespread prohibition and illegalization of cocaine in the third and the first world. there would be no need for pregnant women to get cut up with chainsaws if cocaine was legalized but discouraged by the government. Furthermore, legalization would drive the price down faster than a prepago on payday, which would dramatically decrease the motivation of violent criminals to operate in the business. Additionally, with legalization could come stringent environmental controls to maximize the coca harvests and minimize the environmental degredation that results from its haphazard harvest by criminals now.

Occasional cocaine use is less dangerous than frequent alcohol use, and BOTH of them are highly addictive substances. Only one of them is legal.

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Brian858 says on Nov 18, 2008, 08:09:

Legalize and the problem goes away the next day!!!!!

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hongo_joe says on Nov 18, 2008, 08:14:

These problems exist because cocaine is illegal. The people that are causing the problem are the sanctimonious bastards who think they have a right to tell everyone else what they can or can't put in their noses. It is none of their business as far as I am concerned.

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johnny2008 says on Nov 18, 2008, 08:37:

I used to think that it was completely selfish and self indulgent of UK citizens to "fashionably" snort coke with scant disregard for the wellbeing of colombians, this was a view put forth by alex james (blur bassist) in his documentaries in which he met amongst others President Uribe.

However, this was before I spent a reasonable number of evenings in Bogotá nightclubs and witnessed young colombians also partaking of the marching powder.

I don't know who Francisco Santos Calderon is, but I presume he is a colombian official, blaming the UK is completely risible when he has such cocaine usage in his own capital city.

What I am saying is I personally don't partake of cocaine, but I think it is a bit rich to expect UK citizens to take to heart the wellbeing of colombian pueblos when their cause is somewhat lost on the well to do colombian youth

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viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 18, 2008, 09:10:

johnny2008 says on Nov 18, 2008, 09:18:

Viajero you say that prices are a lot lower in Colombia but that doesn't necessarily mean that Colombian drug lords sell their product at a premium to the UK and USA.

In the product lifecycle of contraband the value is added in the distribution thereof. Unless the drug lords own the distribution network too then they are selling to international mules at a rate comparable to the domestic rate. Only volume of sales can have an impact on the revenue.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 18, 2008, 10:22:

Francisco Santos is the Vice President of Colombia.

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RonDubya says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:13:

hongo_joe says the cocaine problems exist because cocaine is illegal. How right he is - look at alcohol: alcohol is legal and there are no problems that I know of with people abusing alcohol.

And johnny2008 says that because there is cocaine use in Colombia why should the rest of the world stop using? I guess the same reasoning could be used by me to say "Why should I try to be a careful driver when there are so many dangerous drivers already on the road?"

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

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jcgd77 says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:18:

johnny2008, I think your point is a very simplistic view of a very complex problem, perhaps it is very hard to understand it from the comfort of your sofa in London and it is then where it gets more difficult to understand 'cos you are in a very convenient view.

It is very easy to criticize a country like Colombia who does a lot to fight drugs. There is drugs consumption everywhere in the world so you point about youngsters in Bogota consuming the drugs does not even get a little bit closer to the cancer in UK society. There is no comparison on cocaine users between the 2 countries, the UK is by far (at least ten fold) more cocaine addict than Colombia.

Well, who would bother to think about Colombia and its problems while having a wild time in the street of Soho, Manchester or Liverpool? I'm sorry to say but their ignorance are killing many people!! There is a say in Colombia: There is no worse blind (person) than that who does not want to see!!

It is funny to see how more and more english people are getting caught in airport around the world trying to bring drugs to their country to poison their own people. Maybe when they realize that it is damaging their society then they will start worrying about it, for the moment no need to worry, let's rather blame someone else!!

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PBHjon says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:21:

ron, no intellignt person would ever believe that legalizing cocaine is going to instantly solve all the problems related to the drug. it won't suddenly make cocaine any less addictive, nor will it eliminate the problem of overdosing and brain damage (via shrinkage of the cortex) that occurs with long-time usage. I am sure hongo joe realizes this.

However, legalizing cocaine would immediately make the FARC and all the other terrorist groups economically unviable; there is only so much time they can hang out in the deep jungle with no dinero. Furthermore, it would remove a lot of the violence, danger, and destruction that results from the drug industry nowadays. To use your metaphor, we could say the same: legalized alchohol is no solution to alcohol related problems, but it sure is better than the days of Prohibition in the US where mafia and street criminals got rich by selling booze in dark alleys and speakeasies.

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kalder says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:23:

Well put chaps.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:51:

jcgd77
are you saying there are MULES who are coming from Europe who then transport illegally into THEIR OWN COUNTRY??

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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johnny2008 says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:53:

Guys I am not disagreeing with any of you and yes maybe i do have a fairly simplistic view, I frequently say to recreational users (in the UK) that they should fly to bogota, hire a car, drive out into the sticks to a pueblo with no hope and fucking stay there cos that's all they deserve.

And yes whilst partying in those glamorous night spots one might be less inclined to spare a moment to think of what is happening in Latin America. One might have imagined that the bogotanos would be unable to avoid such reflection what with it being under their noses (no pun intended) every day.

Cocaine use fuels Colombia's strife no matter where it is, I was merely commenting that I would have expected more understanding from the Colombians themselves, I was in no way excusing the british spastics that don't even know where colombia is

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leftside says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:01:

As others have said, you are not going to stop these ignorant people from snorting. Legalization and government controlled drug stores will help the problem in a big way though.

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PBHjon says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:03:

"jcgd77
are you saying there are MULES who are coming from Europe who then transport illegally into THEIR OWN COUNTRY??"

This happens a lot actually. I was watching a documentary about mules who were caught taking drugs out of Lima's airport on international flights. They talked about the histories and origins of these people. MANY were not poor peruvians, they were poor Spanish who were muling drugs into Spain, and poor French guys bring drugs into France. The reason that the drug dealers use mules from the country where the drugs will end up, is because a Spanish woman in her thirties is gonna draw a LOT less attention from the airport security than a desperate-looking 17 girl peruvian girl from the jungle.

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PBHjon says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:05:

Johnny2008, I hope you realize that there are a LOT of international companies and corporations that foster suffering and despair around the world, with their horrible economic and environmental policies. If you look up coca cola, you will see they have done some nasty stuff, but it seems immoral to wish harm upon random coca cola drinkers!!!!!

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:25:

Let's get one thing super straight here. There is NOTHING worse that could happen to Colombia than for the cocaine trade to stop. You'd see instant economic collapse here, and UNBELIEVABLE poverty.

Nobody in Colombia wants to go back to not having running water, and not being able to afford electricity. And it's cocaine or that.

Colombia may have a lot of great things going for it but the world doesn't see it, and however big a chunk of the GDP the coke REALLY is, missing out on it would definitely tip the scales in this place.

If you snort coke in North America or Europe, what you're probably financing in Colombia is a building.

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hongo_joe says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:28:

RonDubya: I was referring to the stuff mentioned in the OP. Of course some people will have problems with cocaine - they do now...that wasn't the subject of the article. People have problems with alcohol too, of course, and I think they should be helped if possible and I wouldn't mind a tax on alcohol to go towards that, but I don't want someone telling me that I can't have a beer because of it. I prefer the freedom to choose for myself...

I think the actual problems caused by the illegality of cocaine (some of which are mentioned in the OP - there are more) are way bigger than the potential problems of the drug itself.

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jcgd77 says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:31:

PBHjon:
Yes, there are loads of them, many british citizens, Yes, british, R u still amazed? Well if u r on a £700 wage and living in a council flat why no take a nice all paid holiday and bring some drugs for our fellow drug addicts? It makes them happy and it makes them money? and corruption too or u honestly believe the english mafia don't share their slide with some from the UK police.

johnny2008: get over it man!! when I said soho or manchester or liverpool I didn't mean exactly mean glamorous but that is not the point! The point is almost half of the population in the UK have at least tried a "Class A" drug once in their lives. That is disgusting so don;t preach too much but practice it!! I'm sure your recreational users in the UK would have a more relaxed time in a pueblo in Colombia than in a dark street of east London.

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jcgd77 says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:40:

La_Huella: STOP talking so much rubbish! Financing a building or financing more killings? you must be a very trouble minded man!!

There is poverty 'cos os all the desplazados that come to the cities trying to scpaoe the violence generated by drug trafficking , Stut up and think before you say one more stupid word! None is saying here thet Cocaine has not finance many,not only in Colombia, even in developed countries but of course we get the bad reputation!!

We certainly do not need people like you in Colombia!!

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lpdiver says on Nov 18, 2008, 15:58:

Saying that UK (or US for that matter) drug users is as stupid as saying,

"Colombian production of cocaine is damaging the UK (or US for that matter)"

Both statements are ignorant and stupid.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 16:11:

jcgd77, what grade are you in again? Maybe you could try speaking like an adult and then we could have an intelligent debate on here.

In the meantime QUE VIVA EL PERICO Y QUE VIVA COLOMBIA. I personally hope North Americans hoover that stuff up and die by the hundreds of thousands making Colombia rich in the process. Evolution would be nicely served in that manner!

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lpdiver says on Nov 18, 2008, 16:30:

La_Huella...no no no...you don't want to kill your consumer now do you?

ts

"cook some rice!"

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:14:

People will line up to take their place. Plus, the world needs more seats on the buses and trains, NOT more people :P

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PBHjon says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:26:

"Plus, the world needs more seats on the buses and trains, NOT more people :P"

If there are too many people in the world, I can think of one ethnicity that isnt helping the situation:)

I just bought some perico today, my first time. I'm not into intoxicating substances but what the heck, I gotta try everything once (except sexually). I don't have any plans on "hoovering it" up to the point at which I die, but you can still cross your fingers ;)

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:32:

The people that have too many kids in this world are all in Northwest India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Middle East, and the American South. :P

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:35:

It was the US consumers who initially got Colombians to actively grow and cultivate illicit drugs. If you go back enough in time in the late sixties and early seventies there was practically NO Colombian consumption of marijuana or coca, except as ritual and medicinal usage in indigenous communities. Coca grew all over the Andean cities in people's front lawns and gardens, as a DECORATIVE plant. It was the growing demand of drugs in USA and the discovery of cannabis growing wild in Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta that caught the attention of the US hippies and later the industry boomed with native coca bush too. So, the problem originated in USA, Canada and lesser scale Europe and Colombia got SUCKED in the most nocive and harmful trade in the world; the one that corrupts the very heart of the society.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:38:

May it never end, and people who don't even have the nerve to live here have no right to say otherwise.

I want to throw the light switch and have light like everybody else. I want that to keep on going. In Colombia's case that means COCAINE BABY.

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PBHjon says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:41:

the footprint, you got some mighty cold blood flowing through those veins.

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:45:

You don't know the half of it.

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jcgd77 says on Nov 18, 2008, 23:51:

La_huella: If someone needs to start talking and above all reasoning like an adult it is you, listen to your words!! If you don't have any valid grounds to base your comments just don't say anything.

I'm sorry if you are a drug addict trying to defend a simplistic point of view!! You certainly do not know a fraction of the history!!

Well, there is no point in discussing this with a kid but at least some people know what I think now!!

We don't need people like you here!!

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La_Huella says on Nov 18, 2008, 23:57:

Yeah that's just what we need, another Colombian expat living abroad totally out of touch with the country of their birth.

Do you have anything to offer this discussion but rhetoric? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and post some hard data, since that's what you are accusing me of?

I'm well into my 30s BTW.

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jcgd77 says on Nov 19, 2008, 00:17:

Well, you don't reflect you are on your 30's!!

Hooo Yes then you are what we need, a foreigner trying to teach us something about ethics hahahaha You make me laugh!!

By the way I'm not "another Colombian living abroad totally out of touch with the country of their birth" 'cos I am another 100% Colombian, living in Bogota, Colombia in a estrato 3 barrio, who gets up every morning to catch a bus and go to a public uni" So don't talk about what you don't know.

heheheheh U r indeed very funny!! ignorance has no limits I can see!! OK kid have a good day at school!!

There is nothing u can understand if you don't want to understand!! Your aggressive and rude attitude towards other people won't get you anywhere!!

Chao chao y si te vi, no me acuerdo!! parce!! ;-)

Bye bye,

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 00:21:

Still waiting for you to talk about the ASUNTO and not take it to a personal place where it doesn't belong on here.

Don't forget to thank the coca money for building that university, PARECERO!

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 00:30:

Still waiting for anything constructive about the actual ISSUE instead of just putting people down. Is this how they teach you how to debate at la u, guevon? I don't think so!

There are plenty of 100% Colombians who 100% agree with me on this.

Let me be perfectly clear: I think Colombia is a great country full of extremely smart and capable people. I think Colombia has a great future, and it is fast becoming a center of high-tech and medical industries, among other things. I have a problem with Colombia depending too much on exporting raw materials. But for now until the value-added sectors of the economy mature, cocaine will do just fine.

Nobody ever bitches about countries exporting oil, and oil does a LOT more damage to us than cocaine ever could.

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 00:51:

I don't do cocaine, nor do i traffick in it. I'm just pointing out the painfully obvious.

Why don't you explain to me why Colombia is the ONLY country where you can buy foreign currency at significantly BELOW market value, since you're so smart?

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Cheers Terry says on Nov 19, 2008, 01:07:

"... Why don't you explain to me why Colombia is the ONLY country where you can buy foreign currency at significantly BELOW market value, since you're so smart?..."

=======================================================

jcgd77... In all honestly... that is a pretty good question...

Cheers,
Terry

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 01:30:

Maybe he can ask PROFE :)

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kalder says on Nov 19, 2008, 05:02:

"If you snort coke in North America or Europe, what you're probably financing in Colombia is a building"

You quite probably are. And if drug lords were solely a fraternity of enlightened urban planners that wouldn't be too bad, would it?

But I was more looking at the 'pregnant women and chainsaws' side of things.

Silly me, huh?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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tomtom33 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:10:

mariacvetanoski says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:18:

http://www.nzdf.org.nz/the-ultimate-price-MOS-Feb08

The ultimate price: The death penalty for drug offences
International
Over the course of two weeks in November 2007, Vietnamese courts condemned 35 people to death for drug related offences [1]. It was such a flurry of death sentences that even the media became interested after having ignored the issue for so long.
According to Amnesty International, the death penalty has been abolished in law or practice in 133 states. Of the 64 states that continue to use capital punishment, nearly half have legislation applying the death penalty for drug related offences. Rick Lines illustrates how this ultimate breach of human rights is used by many countries as punishment for drug users and traffickers.
Over the past 20 years, there has been a remarkable trend towards the abolition of capital punishment worldwide. Yet, during this same period, the number of countries expanding the application of the death penalty to include drug offences has increased from 22 in 1985, to 26 in 1995, to at least 34 by the end of 2000 [2]. The majority of these countries are in the Middle East, North Africa and the Asia Pacific region, and in some, drug offences can carry a mandatory sentence of death.[3]

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:21:

continued..

Amnesty International reports that 94 percent of all known executions in 2005 took place in just four countries: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the USA [4]. Each of these has legislation allowing the death penalty to be applied in drug cases.

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:22:

A review of various reports from UN agencies, non-government organisations and media outlets shows that, in recent years, executions for drug offences have been carried out in countries including China [5], Egypt [6], Indonesia [7], Kuwait [8], Malaysia [9], Saudi Arabia [10], Singapore [11], Thailand [12] and Vietnam [13]. [14]

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:23:

Over the last [few] years, the death penalty has been mostly given to persons engaged in drug trafficking.” [18] According to a recent media report, “[a]round 100 people are executed by firing squad in Vietnam each year, mostly for drug related offences.” [19]

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:25:

Amnesty International notes that Singapore has perhaps the highest per capita execution rate in the world. Since 1991, more than 400 people have been executed there, the majority for drug offences [20]. R

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 09:38:

Tom nd Kalder you can't have the one without the other. Progress requires chaos.

It has nothing to do with cocaine, it's the vast amounts of MONEY it generates that are making people kill each other.

Look what the discovery of oil did to Nigeria. Same shit!

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PBHjon says on Nov 19, 2008, 09:43:

i am intrigued by the concept of buying money at below market prices, i don't understand the economic causes/consequences of this. Obviously you say it has something to do with the drug trade (or money laundering or something), can you comment more on that?

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 10:21:

What other explanation is there?

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2008, 10:30:

I've said this before, but I'm not sure the sums are vast.

I haven't researched the topic lately, but one UN document I came across a couple of years ago put Colombia's current 'cocaine economy' at one to three percent of GDP, with an upward band of three to five percent in the Pablo era.

If the one to three percent is close to correct, it could be eliminated, the military budget as a percent of GDP could drop by a percent or two and the country would be at just about the same economic level without cocaine. In fact, I bet it would be BETTER off due to increased business, tourism, investment and a heck of a lot less waste going into unproductive security and bodyguard expenditures.

NOTE: If someone wants to dig, DANE, the statistics agency, releases GDP figures with and without illicit business (drugs) included. I don't know what the spread between the two is.

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 10:36:

If it were that small of a drop in the bucket, it wouldn't generate that much violence to begin with, NOR would foreign currency be so cheap here. I think those numbers are way wide of the mark.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2008, 10:50:

Well, I've also used this rough calculation before:

660 metric tons of cocaine exported = 660,000,000 million grams x $3-$4 USD street price per gram IN Colombia = $2.3 billion USD per year..

Lots of qualifiers, of course, because it's an illicit business and everything is an estimate, but if the production is close to right and the retail price is close to right, it's NOT that big of a business as a percent of GDP. And again, I'm using a gram price at $3.5 USD -- the traffickers don't price by the gram and thus the price might be even lower at 'export points' in Colombia.

The research is out there, but I haven't looked. Someone must know the F.O.B.Colombia price for a multi kilo shipment of processed cocaine.

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 10:57:

2.3 billion USD a year by those calculations is for ONE leg of the operation. Each other leg takes a heavy vig until you get North American and European street prices. Some of that money doesn't make it back, but a hell of a lot of it does, the majority does.

I'd also say that 660 metric tons even to the US alone is way on the low side. I think the true figure is many times that.

The point is we really don't know because it's so far buried underground anyways. The 15-20% differential on foreign currency is what is most telling to me, and that would NOT be caused by a mere 2.3 billion dollar a year industry, no way, no how.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2008, 11:04:

I wouldn't argue that cocaine money is important in supporting Miami real estate, night clubs, cars, boutiques and all of that - plus parts of NYC, Los Angeles and a bunch of other big cities here and in Europe. The big question is how much of the transportation and distribution dollars (as opposed to production and exporting dollars) ever return to Colombia. Maybe Citibank and Bancolombia know... haha.

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PBHjon says on Nov 19, 2008, 11:21:

la huella, since you seem pretty knowledgable about this area can you explain to me more about the phenomenon of undervalued world currencies? I asked earlier but you didn't answer me directly.

how and why does the drug trade and money laundering result in this phenomenon?

what prevents colombians from taking pesos, exchanging them for undervalued foreign currency here, and then travelling abroad to exchange them back into pesos or US dollars at standard rates?

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La_Huella says on Nov 19, 2008, 11:28:

absolutely nothing prevents them, aside from the fact that most of them don't have any money to begin with.

and there's really nothing to explain if you think about it.

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mariacvetanoski says on Nov 19, 2008, 13:20:

broken down palace, the movie...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120620/plotsummary

Plot summary for
Brokedown Palace (1999) More at IMDb Pro »
advertisementAlice and Darlene, best friends, decide to take a trip to Thailand to celebrate high-school graduation. While there, they are befriended by charming Australian rogue Nick Parks. Nick convinces them to take a weekend side trip to Hong Kong, but at the airport, they are busted for smuggling drugs. They are convicted in a show trial and sentenced to 33 years; in desperation, they contact Yankee Hank, an American lawyer based in Thailand who has been reported to be helpful if you've got the cash. Written by Jon Reeves {jreeves at imdb.com}

Alice and Darlene, friends since birth, have just finished high school. They are planning a summer vacation in Hawaii, but they hear Bangkok is even better. They leave... without telling their parents about the change in plans. Bangkok's fun, but they're not crazy about their $6 accommodation. They try for a swim at a luxury hotel, but then there's some trouble when it's time to pay for their drinks. They're rescued by a roving software consultant, Nick Parks, an Australian. Nick's a good guy, although he can't decide which girl he's after. He tells the pair that Hong Kong is great, and he's willing to exchange his first class plane ticket for three economy... The girls rush to catch their flight out. At the airport police arrive suddenly. The girls have heroin in their backpack... Darlene's father has no luck freeing the girls from prison, even when he looks for help from the local DEA agents. But there's a sleazy lawyer, Hank Green, who may be able to do something, for a price... Written by David Woodfield

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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hongo_joe says on Nov 20, 2008, 05:37:

Another possible explanation (other than an excess supply from drug sales ) for being able to buy it cheap is that some or all of it is counterfeit. Colombia is well known for producing a lot of very high quality counterfeit money.

http://www.harvardir.org/articles/893/

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hongo_joe says on Nov 20, 2008, 06:48:

Ooops bad edit, I was referring above to buying foreign currency in Colombia

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 20, 2008, 07:15:

Rubito, there is no 15-20% spread right now.

The maximum spread is less than 10% at today's rates, and that's not a price you can get at exchange kiosks. That price is "precio de la calle", of which no PBHer has ever explained to me where to achieve that price.

cf. http://www.portafolio.com.co (Monedas)

Having said that, I do agree that Colombia is the only country I know where you can pay less than the interbank rate to change your cash.

And I do agree that it's due to the tide of foreign currency cash drug revenues looking for a home back in Colombia. When you are in such a high margin business, you can easily eat a 10% loss on the exchange so as to get a portion of your ill gotten gains available in pesos.

que nota!

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La_Huella says on Nov 21, 2008, 11:28:

Come here and I'll show you personally. I'm talking about storefronts who pay taxes and guarantee their money is not counterfeit. If you want to go on the street and risk getting scammed you can get an even better deal.

Right now it's going for around 2080-2100 at most places but it varies minute to minute.

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