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truth or consequences

For the last several weeks I have posted different questions and the truth is that they all lead back to much the same as Virginia Mans dilemma. I met a Colombiana on line and after a very short period, I brought up the subject of marriage. We both agreed that we were both tired of living alone. She does not speak English but my Spanish was sufficient for us to understand each other and I decided to ask her if she wanted to get married and maybe live in Costa Rica. I am in my late 40’s and she is in her early 30’s. She took two weeks off from her job, a government position and we flew to Cartagena and were married by a Notaria whom I had a Colombian friend find for us. During the entire time, she was sweet, loving, carinoso and everything was wonderful. We returned to her city and I spent the following week or so there and then returned to the U.S. and began the immigration process, she also said she didn’t care where we lived as long as we are together. After about 3 weeks, I returned to Colombia on just a few days notice and we rented an apartment and all day, each day, while she was at work, I would sit around and watch movies and she would call several times a day to say hi and see how I was doing. All very loving, and caring. She has her own apartment and several of her family members were staying there so as it is close to her work at 6pm, she would stop over there after work and call and then after the 30 taxi ride she would arrive at the apartment usually about 745-9pm and we would eat and then watch TV in the bed and she would be very affectionate, rubbing my hand etc. After two weeks, I again returned to the states and again after a few weeks in the states called and said I would be returning and she said she was staying with a friend but that she would make room if she had to put pillows on the floor. She simply said that she did not want me to be upset if she didn’t have much time as she had started an English class from 6pm to 9pm. I had a friend that arrived during the festival of flowers and he rented her apartment for him and his girlfriend. When I arrived, there suddenly was no place for me to stay and I wound up staying with my friend at her apartment, her staying the first night with me and during the next 7 days about 3 more nights together. I wound up returning to the states after 7 days as the situation was just not good and there was no time for us to be together or at least she didn’t make any time, very little anyway. She rarely answers my emails and when I try to call, either I get the voice mail or she will call me. I am about to go overseas for several months to work and while I do not think that there is anyone else involved, she does not put in action what she says in words. She says she loves me and adores me, but even Colombiana’s who know her and I said before I left that when you love someone, you make time to be with them. When we are together, everything is absolutely wonderful, and in the conversations, everything is wonderful. She has met my mom via internet and calls her mami, but after I tell her that I love her, she slacks off and takes me for granted and that is contrary to what colombiano's and colombiana’s describe as the normal behavior of a true Colombiana.

Where is this going, After leaving countless messages yesterday and her telling me the day before she would call me after work at 8pm, I finally told her that in an email which she never went to a café and opened, that if I didn’t hear from her by last night, it was over. We are in somewhat of the process of buying a finca so she is willing to live in Colombia and again though she said because of the turbulence and trauma in Colombia, she would prefer to live in the U.S. and I am about 8 days away from the K-3 process, I was so infuriated with her for not getting in touch with me when she said she would the other day after work and then all day yesterday, (I know she was at work for a fact) and her excuse was she went off with un grupo. I told her I didn’t’ care about un grupo that I am her husband and there was no excuse she could not have called me, I’ve given her calling cards. She hung up and I sent an email, talked to the older sister and told her if she doesn’t do a 180 and change her priorities, this is over. Like I said when we are together, life is absolutely wonderful, and as newlyweds, she should feel like me and want nothing more than to talk and see me whenever she can, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

So my question is what is the divorce process in Colombia if it comes to that and I will listen to any advice that is given. I am not a stupid gringo, she was all that before we married, and we are both Christians have gone to church together and that was, being Christians, the foundation of this relationship. Again I am not stupid and know that everyone has the capability to lie or deceive, me included, but I am an honest and caring man and I love the Latin peoples, I always have.
Thanks to all. This has been a very troubling situation and I respect this site and all the help that is given here, maybe a pity I didn’t find it before I got married.

By captbill on Sep 11, 2005, 15:31 in Friendly Talkzone.

cam0940 says on Sep 11, 2005, 15:51:

What a shame. I really feel for you, sir. Sounds like you did your part with sincerity and I'm very sorry to hear the story. Not getting back to you, the issue of spending time with you after you made time to go down there, it is all very troubling because it is immensly disrespectful, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the way she treats her husband is the kind of characteristic you want her to have before the marriage. It will be a long tough go trying to communicate to her what your definition of "respect" is with regard to the way you treat each other. In fact, it is in this area that men are often accused of trying to "control" their wives/girlfriends, when in reality all you're asking for is a little consideration. If she doesn't "get it", she will feel controlled, and then there's a high probability that it will get worse.

I don't think you're stupid. I just think you're in an uncomfortable position. WRT Christianity, she is not behaving as a Christian wife, which begs the question of whether she actually believes the Word. My advice is to read I COR 7:5, and then I COR 7:12-16.

You are 100% correct to put your foot down. Even to file for divorce. I'm sure it hurts emotionally now, but you are in a position that will be very difficult to resolve without concession on her part that she is disrespecting you. Especially after all you've done. Don't file those K papers yet.

In short, if I were you, I would start looking at how I could end the marriage before you get deeper in. Technically, she's ending it by her treatment of you, you're just ending it in its legal sense.

Good luck.

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expatriate says on Sep 11, 2005, 15:59:

Time for salesmanship Captbill, you sold her on you once, but maybe not thoroughly enough. Now you'll have to re-sell her on why it is such a good idea to be married to you.

It seems like you two have not spent enough time together yet, so she is not really used to the idea of being married, and is just carrying on with her old habits. You need to see her in person and convince her again about how wonderful you are to be with. Suerte. John

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kerry says on Sep 11, 2005, 16:02:

4 things either she is scared u will leave her so she gives u the cold shoulder. This sounds strange but it does happen, people destroy there realtionships and do all the wrong things because they are so insecure. Secondly there may be someone else, south america is a very sexual place. or thirdly she may have decided the realtionship is wrong. and finally there may be things u r innocently doing that annoy her and you don't know what they are (also cultural misunderstandings). Try communicating in all different approaches not just one approach: seriously, in a realxed way, by email and phone. indirectly by the sister. couple counselling give this one the last thing u do if she agrees to it. IF all this fails or she is just not prepared to communicate then dump her early as she is defective

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cam0940 says on Sep 11, 2005, 16:50:

Kerry you are a social disaster. This is the second tactless, distasteful post you've made in as many days.

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captbill says on Sep 11, 2005, 17:27:

Thanks, and that is what many people have said and we (my wife and I ) also have from the beginning said that things will be better when she is here and we are living closer to my family, in the same string, others have said we need to spend more time together. Because of her work and whatever other reasons and I think it is her "independiente" being ingrained in her she is still as she told my mom in an email is just the rhythm of all her life. I tried to spend more time with her and because of her schedule and my at the time, limited finances we were not able to spend the time together to build this, but she has said she wants this to functionar. I do also. I gave her a deadline yesterday in an email which I am not sure yet if she has read, that being if I hadn't heard from her by tonight,then tomorrow when I meet with an immigration officer here in Atlanta will make some kind of decision, but still haven't heard from her today. She got angry and hung up last night and I haven't heard back from her yet. Everything that has been commented on so far, myself and my mom have considered, but it is just difficult. Thanks for the comment, everyone has helped in a way to confirm the lines of thought I have had and I hope that for the sake of the two of us, you are expat is right. I was told beforehand that this would require two things for the first 2 years more or less, patience and getting use to the difference in customs.

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Miguel says on Sep 11, 2005, 17:56:

Whatever happens...good luck My initial reaction is, that if you all of a sudden have dropped so far down on her list of priorities that she might have somebody else on the side.

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Shanidar says on Sep 11, 2005, 18:23:

I had a similar thing happen... when I got attitude about expecting my fiancee to make time for me. I kept hopig, etc, that things would change.
Instead, she made it to the states, we got married, I thought it would reduce the pressure she was under. But the fighing and disrespect continued. Now, she is in the States, we are divorcing, she has gone underground with some Latinas in Houston who are helping her learn to skirt the Immigration laws....

kerry's post might have been tactless, but all the bases were covered, and the bottom line(for me) the longer you try to make it work and fail, the more pain you will have. Offer all types of counseling, make your best effort. But remember, you can't make her love you. So, give it your best effort, and if it doesn't work, pull the plug. There is no honor in meaningless suffering, there is only suffering.
It takes two to make a marriage, and right now, it appears that there is only one.

God Bless and good luck. I feel your pain

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captbill says on Sep 11, 2005, 18:39:

the question Thanks for the advice. Does anyone have an answer to the question of how to proceed with divorce with a colombiana if it comes down to that? She is still in Colombia, does not have a U.S. Visa and if it does continue to deteriorate, I hate divorce but that may be my saddest alternative. I don't want to live sad and repeat that mistake of getting here then finding out nothing changes. How does a U. S. citizen divorce a Colombian. How long does it take. There are no assests just emotions. Thanks again.

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cam0940 says on Sep 11, 2005, 18:42:

No, but Shanidar, I have a question: what were you fighting about after she got here? 'Cause she couldn't say she was too busy for you, she's starting a brand new life. Also, you said the fighting continued. Does this mean you were fighting beforehand?

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cam0940 says on Sep 11, 2005, 18:43:

Captbill, I'm getting my gf's family on the line right now to ask them how to file for divorce in Colombia. I'll get back to you with their answers.

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captbill says on Sep 11, 2005, 18:46:

family Thanks a lot. I told her 10 year old niece yesterday I was triste, that I really loved her tia and wished she would answer my emails. Anyway, triste or not, and the sister said to pray and trust in God which I am doing, I still want to know how to proceed if it comes down to it. Maybe the same Notario who performed the ceremony can undo it.
Thanks

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cam0940 says on Sep 11, 2005, 18:52:

Mi novia dice que ud tiene que darle un poder a un abogado para que haga una demanda de divorcio contra ella. Tambien dice que ud debe de clamar infidelidad para que ud no tenga que darle a su esposa ni un peso. Aparte de eso, lea lo siguiente:

9 de junio de 2005, 11:18 AM
Colombia aprueba el divorcio "express": apenas en unos minutos ADVERTISEMENT

BOGOTA (AFP) - Las parejas en Colombia podrán divorciarse en apenas unos minutos si hay mutuo consentimiento, con un simple trámite ante un notario (escribano), según una ley aprobada por el Congreso para reducir las gestiones ante el Estado.

Hasta ahora los divorcios en el país debían ser tramitados ante un juez, en un proceso que -en el mejor de los casos- demandaba al menos seis semanas.

La norma que agiliza el divorcio hace parte de una ley "antitrámites" que fue aprobada en una sesión de la plenaria del Senado (Cámara Alta) para eliminar más de 90 gestiones, incluyendo varias de las necesarias para crear empresas y salir al exterior.

La nueva ley establece que cuando la pareja esté de acuerdo con divorciarse bastará con que se acerque ante un notario para manifestar su voluntad en una escritura pública, sin necesidad de recurrir a un abogado que los represente como era obligatorio.

Bajo el gobierno de Alfonso López (1974-1978) Colombia estableció el matrimonio civil, anulable con el correspondiente divorcio. Sólo con la Constitución de 1991 se admitió el divorcio para los matrimonios realizados por la Iglesia Católica.

Según una investigación de la privada Universidad Externado de Colombia, el divorcio es un fenómeno en constante aumento en el país.

Según ese informe, en las generaciones nacidas a mediados del siglo 20 la tasa de divorcios llegaba a 30%, mientras que entre los colombianos nacidos de 1960 a 1964 la tasa de divorcios y separaciones alcanza a 45,5% de los matrimonios contraídos.

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miamimike says on Sep 11, 2005, 22:19:

Cut Your losses and Divorce this lady Pronto.!!!!! From what you wrote, it is pretty clear she has someone else in her life. She's gaming you! Man,talk about "RED FLAGS"-they are there all over the place; you may not want to see them! Halt the Visa Process of bringing her here(usa) Pronto-it will be much more Expensive then you can imagine and then if have any kids and divorce later, the price spirals.Don't even think about buying a Farm with this Lady! ******Shanidar,If I had a dime for every one of these women divorcing and then hooking up with Amigas Latinas that I have seen here in Miami, I could retire a rich man. This is Normal, this is the Routine! Good Luck and cut her loose now! No farther discussion. Anytime a person travels a few thousand miles(at great expense in time and money) and she(wife or novia) cannot make time for her husband(or foreign novio)-this should be all it takes to start the Divorce papers. Hope you are NOT sending any Money to her!! Not a Dime!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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NorwegianMale says on Sep 12, 2005, 01:53:

LOL, I just think the whole story is sad. Boring gringo (watching movies all day) goes internet dating, meeting a much younger lady, proposing marriage after short period of time, stays with the lady for a few weeks, doesn’t work out, gringo discussing the matter with his mum (!!!) the ladies 10 (!!) year old niece, gringo wants divorce after a couple of months.

Is it just me, or have anybody else heard this story 10.000 times before?

Hello Captain!, this is the world calling! You probably should divorce her, but next time try to think before you act.

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cam0940 says on Sep 12, 2005, 02:45:

NorwegianMale What kind of pencil dick bastard would mock a guy in this situation? Your comments aren't funny, and they make you the jerk. Now you're going to sit up and ridicule as if you've never done anything in your life that you had second thoughts about. Gimme a break. Fuckin dicks like you always want to put somebody down as if to say you're "smarter". I've heard YOUR story 10,000 times. Next time if you don't have anything positive to say, just stay the fuck out of it.

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NorwegianMale says on Sep 12, 2005, 03:20:

cam Huh?!!? You sound like his mother, dulling this 40-something guy like he was a 6 year old child who got his candies stolen.

Offcause I have done a lot of stupid things in my life. At the Dominician Republic I left 50$ openly on the table when I left my hotelroom. But…I never went whining to a Dominican forum when it was stolen. As we say in Norway: If you play the game, you have to taste the steak (hehe…don’t know if there is any similar sayings in English).

I think the question about divorce in Colombia is fair question on this board. The rest of his sad story should be posted on www.GuysWithBadExperiencesDatingForeignBridesOnInternet.com. That is if the server hasn’t run out of free space.

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NorwegianMale says on Sep 12, 2005, 04:03:

and cam, when i re-read the thread and your earlier responses, I actually realized that you are the tiny-winy pencil dick bastard. To me it seems like you are a Christian, because of your references to the book of the brainwasheds (COR-something)!??! Is it true?

Then let me then ask you something: How the fuck can you take that unconditional side for this guy? How can you say: “it is all very troubling because it is immensly disrespectful”, “she is not behaving as a Christian wife”, “You are 100% correct to put your foot down”?? Do you know the whole story, or are you basing your statements only on what is said in this thread? You just sound like another dumb common Christian; always ready to judge, always knowing the truth, filled with prejudices and flaming everybody else with another opinion on the matter.

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aztec says on Sep 12, 2005, 04:31:

It doesn't matter ... ...anymore what you want from this woman. There are enough fireworks going off that you need to stop in your tracks. Go no further with your plans for bringing her to the States. You will certainly loose big time if you do that.

Step back. Realize you are hurting and in major pain! You can't think well in this condition. None of us can. That is why you need to move away from the problem until you get your feet back on the ground.

I suspect you already know what has to be done.

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cam0940 says on Sep 12, 2005, 06:44:

Actually I have a huge dick and the balls to tell you that you're way out of line to kick a guy when he's down. That's what makes you a pencil dick. This board, actually, is a great place for him to come for advice or even, if he wants, to vent. If you've seen the story before, and don't have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to add, then don't add at all. We're building threads, not tearing them down.

Yes I'm basing my comments on this thread, that's all we have to work with. We haven't heard her side of the story now have we? Dumb ass.

Thirdly, whether you're a Christian or not, the Bible is one of the greatest literary works of all time. I challenge you to name another with a greater impact on mankind, aside from the Qu'ran or other religious texts. In otherwords, Christian or not, if you're a well read adult, you ought to know something about what's in it. Would you prefer we quote Nitzsche? He doesn't have anything that applied. Socrates? He didn't have anything that applied. We can go down the list. The OP said the relationship was based on Christian fundamentals. Therefore I appropriately gave him some scriptures. Dumb ass.

Given your assumptions, it is you that looks like the prejudiced one. Prejudiced against Christians, when no one is forcing you live like one. In fact, if you actually READ the Word, you'd understand that NO ONE in the history of mankind was EVER forced to become a Christian or live like one. It has always been 100% the choice of the individual. Dumb ass.

If I read that the world was round, and I chose to believe it, and you kept insisting it was flat, does that make me brainwashed? It bothers me when non-Christians use the term "brainwashed" because the Christian has beliefs that you don't. And then you call the Christian the bad guy. So, to avoid being called "brainwashed", the Christian has to believe as you do? Fucking idiot. And then you criticize the Christian for not being tolerant? In a tolerant world, you let the Christian believe as he does and you do your own thing. Your attack on Christians shows you to be no better than the enemy you scorn.

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