Travel guide is rocking

It's awesome!! I added a bit on transportation to Zipaquira.
I think the guidelines for writing should state that no illegal practices should be encouraged in the guide. There was a bit on the Driving in Colombia guide that included tips on how to bribe police officers.

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Gamm, yep, that was a section that I wrote.

In my opinion, it's one of the most important things in the whole chapter. This is because a lot of driving in Colombia is just common sense. But dealing with the police is one area which is a serious cultural difference, at least between my Anglo background and the Colombian norms.

I know Colombians who don't pay bribes and I know of others who have no problem doing so.

If people can be prepared in that situation and know what the options and conventions are, they will feel less anxious and can make a decision according to their own conscience.

That said, the whole guide is a collective project, and if people feel strongly enough about it, someone should just jump into the wiki page and edit it out. The pages are wide open for folks to correct inaccuracies, add info, or whatever.

What I wrote is a starting point from my own personal point of view and can be made better by others filling in the gaps.

que nota!

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"In my opinion, it's one of the most important things in the whole chapter"

I agree: PRACTICAL tips to deal with SPECIFIC situations should be published (unless, of course, trying to bribe a Colombian police officer might lead you straight to jail!)

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Gamm: there's a big difference between "promoting illegal practices" and being practical. I agree with the others: I think practical info is the best, whether it's "legal" or not.

Poor but snappy

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The driing guide is great. But I don't agree with you guys in the bribing part. Do you call practical "Bribes: If you want to avoid the above, it's often possible to offer a small bribe to the officer." or "If you want to offer a bribe, you could just explain that it would be really inconvenient to get a ticket over this small matter," ?
I think this is actually encouraging people to bribe officers with the argument that fines are too expensive.

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Well somebody named Viajero was using my account... but of course I agree.

At some point you have to take a moral stand. Would you ever offer a bribe in your home country? Im sure there are plenty of times that we laugh at Colombia or other developing nations about how common it is to take bribes or about how that is the only way to get things done. Maybe its actually not as common as we think and putting it on a posted web site would only perpetuate stereotypes and rumors.

Then again people have to make their own moral decisions and yes bribing does happen.

Another legal alternative to bribing police officers is to have a lot of women in the car. We got stopped for speeding this weekend and for some reason we got let go. Could have been because they didnt actually get the speed recorded or because there were three women in the car and I gave my ¨"Oh my God, its a Colombian police officer! look¨"

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Hiya Gamm,

"Maybe its actually not as common as we think and putting it on a posted web site would only perpetuate stereotypes and rumors."

Fair points there! But, on the other hand:

- Moral stand is by definition subjective
- What is "wrong" in a country may be "right" in another (e.g. smoking pot is legal in Holland - it isn't in France) - no moral judgment there, just a statement of facts
- Mentioning a piece of information in the guide doesn't not necessarily entail that you agree with it. You're just INFORMING the reader of what's going on.

I'll give you a case in point: In Greece, whenever you get admitted to a hospital to have surgery (whatever for), it is CUSTOM to give the surgeon an enveloppe with several hundreds euros BEFORE the operation takes place. This practice is called the "fakelo" (the enveloppe) and is systematic... If you don't give the "fakelo" to the surgeon, you risk never wake up from the operation or have serious sequels...

I know, it's horrible and it is immoral (in my book). But it's the CUSTOM and I'm not going to change it on my own. Thus, informing readers of this custom doesn't mean I agree with (or encourage) this custom (quite the opposite). I'm simply trying to give them some good advice which, who knows, may one day save their life.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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"You have to be careful with bribing officers. I´ve had several friends tell me that they will haul you off to jail if you try. Depends on the officer. But they also told me that 95% of them will take the bribe."

Hmmm, I'll take my chances in ANY situation if I'm sure to get ahead in 95% of the case... ;-)

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Well, I have never been asked for or offered a bribe and I have been able to go very well. And I would have taken a fine if the officer had asked for a bribe. I agree it is important to acknowledge that this takes place, but I do think the guide sort of encourages it. And it is very different from the Greek story since here your life is not at stake. Another story would be if you were bribing to get out of a Colombian jail were your life is at risk or something like that. Pot is legal in Holland and not in France, as bribing is illegal in Colombia so I don't see the point there.

The easiest way is not to break the traffic rules, and if you do and are caught, and can't convince the officer to let you off with a warning, then get the fine, and go to a Servibanca ATM and pay it. But don't come to other countries, feel bad about all the corruption going on, and then feed it by bribing traffic officials. This would even be considered illegal in your home countries, where bribing foreign officials is prosecutable (although this will of course not happen for a traffic bribe in Colombia).

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Viajero, your points are taken (and I agree with most of them). Let's just say that I didn't invent the word "la mordida" and that, when I am in Rome, I tend to do like the Romans...

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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