Tourists Held Near Park Tayrona

bickerss says on Dec 4, 2005, 10:43:

jaja - I did go and see the sights. Cuidad perdida and Tayrona! Crazy stuff!

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platano says on Dec 4, 2005, 11:04:

Murders in Yosemite.... Motel Handyman Confesses to 4 Yosemite Murders
http://www.yosemitegold.com/yosemite/sund.htm

Have any tourists EVER been murdered in Parque Tayrona in its entire history? Can you provide documentation?

plátano

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bickerss says on Dec 4, 2005, 11:39:

But, really I have to laugh because people come her to Colombia and I would imagine have the means to go a lot of other places less dangerous but they come here. They hear a rumor like this and they are surprised! Get over it. This sh%t happens here. It is not big news... You can not watch the news and make a determination on what is dangerous here

regardig the above - it was a simple question, no need for such a harsh response - i think maybe a chill pill is in order!! FYI i have actually been to many, many, countries, and in LA I think colombia is generally far safer than Brail, Peru, and Bolivia! Just my opinion!

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carter says on Dec 4, 2005, 12:32:

yes those events did occur. they were locked in a hut for around 8 hours before letting themselves out. No one was hurt but lots of valuables were stolen.

This is a paramilitary controlled area and the rumours that i have heard since is that the paras killed those involved. (but thats only a rumour)

3 years ago 2 girls (Colombians) were rapped and killed in the park and the paras revenged there death by killing the men and there families.

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platano says on Dec 4, 2005, 12:48:

From the freakin' Yosemite FAQ Additionally, while Yosemite, like many rural areas, has a relatively low crime rate, do not let your guard down: even though serious crimes may be relatively uncommon, keep your personal safety in mind.

If you go to Yosemite or Parque Tayrona: Be careful! Stay alert! You never know! Watch out! People have been killed there!

Jeez, how's a body supposed to kick back and enjoy nature with such rampant paranoia?

plátano

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platano says on Dec 4, 2005, 12:54:

Carter, The United States government has officially recognized the "paramilitaries" as an international terrorist organization reponsible for 70% of the violations against Colombians.

It is hardly reassuring to give people the impression that terrorists are in control of the Parque Tayrona territory. The paramilitaries don't legally control anything. They are an illegal criminal organization of murderers and torturers operating in violation of Colombian law.

plátano

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Gator says on Dec 4, 2005, 15:18:

Cut Through the Fog.... and call what most of them are-bandits.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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platano says on Dec 4, 2005, 15:41:

Bandits... AUC, ELN, and FARC are all bandits... Otherwise known as extralegal armed actors.

But I've traveled alone by bus and I've been to Parque Tayrona (during both the 80's and 90's before Uribe made Colombia safe) and I didn't give bandits of any stripe a second thought. I enjoyed my visit without a thought for my "personal safety"...

And depending on your personal philosophy, you might trust that your personal safety is being guaranteed by a higher power, or by past karma... or you might not even believe that death exists (see books like "Who Dies?" by Stephen Levine, or "Death: The Greatest Fiction" by Osho). Or if you are a fatalist and believe everything is predetermined, then when your number is up, it doesn't matter how many armed bodyguards you took with you to Parque Tayrona... you're dead meat!

With the right attitude it is possible to enjoy Parque Tayrona and all of rural Colombia without giving the bandits a second thought, take the bus anywhere without fear... and discover wonderful places like San Antonio del Chamí

plátano

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Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 4, 2005, 18:30:

Tayrona GIB wrote,"from a Colombian living here reading the article over my shoulder. (We were checking her mail and I decided to show her this site)

"That place is dangerous to visit, Colombians don't do it but tourist do...stupid." Not an uncommon opinion here in Colombia in fact it is quite common."

Sorry, amigo, but I was at the exact location in question (Arrecifes) not so long ago. It was crowded with people. As far as I could tell my friend and I were the ONLY gringos or Europeans there and the other several hundred ALL appeared to be Colombians.

I don't doubt that people get robbed there. People also get robbed in Parque Simon Bolivar. If they were locked in a hut that gives a plausible explanation that the bandits actually just wanted a little getaway time.

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webmanco says on Dec 4, 2005, 19:31:

Danger in Bogotá, I mean GIB DIB or GIB, whatever, whenever traveling we need to be positve and of course be carefull, I see joy in traveling by road, the view is different every mile, when flying you don´t see much. I went to Tayrona, still need to go to Ciudad Perdida, will do it soon.

I know many colombians who had been there and will go again. Colombians who said is dangerous is because they are the city tourist, like to see shopping malls, are not into outdoor activities, or rather to do lines at embassies and spent money overseas.


COLOMBIA

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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EdH says on Dec 5, 2005, 04:12:

Armed Robbery in Tayrona - sell on to FARC So no truth to the rumour that the bandits were trying to sell their prisoners onto the FARC then?

Also what do the Tayronas think about people being robbed in their park? are they mad or what?

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CuriosJoe says on Dec 5, 2005, 08:14:

over 4 million visitors come to Yosemite Park each year

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elmodefoque says on Dec 5, 2005, 09:24:

Listen, if I were gringo, no way you gonna find my pasty white ass wondering outside parque Tyrona or many places in La Guajira. The kind of Colombians you’re gonna come across these places are not the same middle class and rich Colombians you’ll meet in paruqe Lleras, Zona Rosa or Villa Country, the ones that like to invite you places and have you speak to them in English. The very poor Colombias are gonna invite you alright, to the annual Christmas FARC and ELN party, sorry can’t tell you were it is, they change location every other day.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 5, 2005, 09:31:

In the annual Christmas farc and eln party they like to play pin the tail on the donkey, guess who donkey is gonna be?

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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Miguel says on Dec 5, 2005, 10:02:

¡Que lastima Modo! No puedo ir a la fiesta Farc en La Guajira porque ya estoy invitado a rumbar con AUC en Malambo.

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EdH says on Dec 5, 2005, 10:14:

Robbery Hey - could someone send on the link so I can read this article about the robbery?

I thought that Tayrona was a possible tourist destination with a risk of robbery like many places.

About the xmas party - hopefully by one christmas, if not this one, Uribe will have blown the FARC to shit.

E.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 5, 2005, 10:29:

Warning is the same all over. Hey, if I were a white modefouqe no way I’m gonna get off at 127 and Lennox ave, at 1 am on a hot summer night. If I were a spic I would not recommend you make a stop for gas in South Carolina a few miles off I-95. I did it and I’m here to talk about only because they though I was from the local Choctaw tribe that live in that area. It was almost 1 am and nearly outta gas, I had to get off I-95 to look for a service station. The nearest pump was almost 5 miles deep inside South Carolina. Soon after exiting the highway it was dark as hell with a dirt road that took me further and further away from I-95. I finally got to this place smack in the middle of nowhere, the only lights around was coming from that store The place had a confederate flag that covered the entire store, I nearly piss my pants. This is gotta be just how a wealthy Colombian or gringo feels when FARC stops a bus in the middle of the jungle, scared shitless. Anyway I saw some heavy duty red necks and injuns walking around. They turned out to be quite friendly, no telling how I would be treaded if I did not look injun and instead looked like a run of the mill Colombian spic. They probably hog tie me to a tree and made me squeal like a pig.
I hear the auc annual christmas party is better, they got drugs, booze and hookers

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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carter says on Dec 5, 2005, 13:00:

Platano never said it was a good thing that the paras ran the place. I am well aware of what they do and what peoples opinions of them are in this country.

But it is a very strong rumour that Paramilitaries recieve money from the lost city trek and from the running of Park Tyrona.

it was reported that they killed the people who committed the last crime there and then murdered the innocent people living with them.

Believe me Platano I have no support for this group.

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carter says on Dec 5, 2005, 13:03:

Colombians don´t go to to Tyrona? Last time I went there it was so full they had a one out, one in policy. we waited in a line all day waiting for people to leave so we could enter.

In total there was 6 foriegners in the park but its hard to tell when a place is so full of colombians. As for the wealthy not going their most of the people we meet were students from wealthy families.

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bickerss says on Dec 5, 2005, 13:33:

When I went to Park Tayrona was about 70 % colombians 30 % other countries. Cuidad Perdida has about 3 groups per week of all other countries reanging from 6 to 10 people approx. Our guide said there were a few colombian tourists groups, but mainly school kids. 1 group in Nov last year of 60 colombians.

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Gator says on Dec 5, 2005, 13:40:

We Are Regular... visitors to both Bahia Concha and Bahia Neguange(Playa Crystal) and there are only a few, and I mean a few, foreigners. Usually very crowded, especially on the weekends. Never had a problem in 15 years other then the horrible road.

BTW, unless you are a Colombian or a permanent Colombian resident expect to pay a fairly large "Gringo Tax" to get into the park.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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litost says on Dec 5, 2005, 14:52:

Yeah that gringo tax is very unreasonable and unjustified IMO. I went recently with some of my colombian friends, a brasilian and a serbe to the Parque de los Nevados and according to the price list they were supposed to pay like 20,000 just to get in while we colombians just had to pay like 6,000. As good colombians, we found a way to get around that... first we told the foreigners to keep their mouths shut and not call much attention to themselves, and one of my colombian friends just bought the tickets for everyone at colombian price. I don't usually incite corruption or evasion, but this just seemed too unfair

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litost says on Dec 5, 2005, 14:55:

BTW, when I went to Parque Tayrona around mid december last year, right before the high season, there were about as many foreigners as colombians. The overflow of colombian tourists only comes in some precise vacation times, while foreigners show up on a much more regular/random basis. Everyone told me to avoid the highest tourist season (late dec - early jan, Semana Santa) in Tayrona like the plague.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 5, 2005, 22:18:

Probably After they saw what Mao got up to in the countryside they probably didn't want those Chinese running amok and causing even more problems for Colombia.

No, really, I'm sure the government sent military companions along because they really DON'T want an international incident with wha they hope will become a very important trade partner. With Colombia's global reputation it wouldn't take much to turn the perception even further against it.

When I went to Tayrona I asked a social aquaintance who is high up in one of the Colombian military forces if he thought it was safe. He said he really didn't know but gave me an intro to the Santa Marta office of the Colombian National Police. Their advice, at the time, was to stay out of the Sierra Nevada but that the beach areas of Tayrona were very safe and that the only real danger would be something like being ripped off. But they didn't seem at all worried about kidnapping or homicide or anything like that in the major tourist destinations of the park.

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Saltador says on Dec 6, 2005, 14:22:

I was actually there less than a week ago... We hiked through to the falls, I was the only gringo with my party. There were about 30 Colombians in the falls when we got there. I never heard one word about any of this, of course that means nothing I suppose. I would like to see a link to a legit news story about these incidences, instead of hearsay.

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Saltador says on Dec 6, 2005, 14:26:

Here's the link: http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/15/content_264193.htm
Looks like it was over two years ago from this story, doesn't tell the outcome. None of the hostages were from the USA interestingly.

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Gator says on Dec 6, 2005, 19:03:

Yes, But... this is OLD news that took place over two years ago at an isolated base camp on a trek to the Ciudad Perdida. There were four Israelis, two Britons, a German and a Spaniard, officials. One of the Brits escaped and the others were later released.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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caslug says on Dec 7, 2005, 05:21:

in two months in COL.. i´ve WITNESSED TWO car accident(saw TWO more that happen before i arrived). People here a) do not obey traffic or lights and b) don´t know how to drive. I found out that you dont have go to driving school or take a test, you just register and pay the fee to get your licenses. I also saw 1 girl got caught for stealing, talked with two other person that were victims of robberies, one was a gringa. Throw in, two fights on busy, tourist streets.

In over 30 yrs in the US, i´ve NEVER witness as many ¨unfortunate events¨ as two months in COL. And i´m not going around LOOKING for bad place to go.

I was having lunch with my friend yesterday in Floresta Barrio in Medellin. She works at the COL version of JuVefor kids 12 to 17 that committed crime. They range from robberies to murders. She counsel 70 kids a month, 60% are in there for selling drugs, 80% of the girls have been sexual abuse when they were younger, a few were murderers and other violence offender. Well the ¨jail¨ was in a residential neighborhood AND IN FRONT of a PUBLIC SCHOOL!!

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Saltador says on Dec 7, 2005, 05:43:

GIB If you read my post, it states that the fact I had not heard about it meant nothing.
Although your anology really is meaningless as well. I would think 7 people being held hostage would be more newsworthy than your robbery.
Or are both incidents so everyday common in Colombia that neither is newsworthy?
You live there, you tell us. How often have you seen bullets flying and people robbed?

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Gator says on Dec 7, 2005, 06:22:

Soon Colombia Will Be Safe.... because only seven people will be left alive-one of whom will be GIB bunkered inside his apartmento.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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carter says on Dec 7, 2005, 06:57:

GIB A useful note would be who these 4 gringos who have been kidnapped are?
what were they doing here?
Do they have both US and Colombian passports?
do they have family here?
are they military?
do they work for the Government or Oil companies?
where were they taken?

This would be helpful information for travellers here as what there interests in Colombia are make a huge difference to why they were taken and how safe it is for backpackers here.

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Gator says on Dec 7, 2005, 07:26:

Asi... ¡Así es la vida! Dulce para unos y amarga para otros.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 7, 2005, 11:22:

Info please I curious, GIB, where the Embassy is reporting that there were 4 gringos kidnapped in 2005? I looked at all their public sites and see nothing. Nor do my personal contacts there report such a thing.

I don't doubt that more than 4 Americans were kidnapped and ransomed in 2005 without reporting to the authorities, since that's pretty much business as usual, but in those cases the dept of State is generally out of the loop as well.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 7, 2005, 11:56:

Thanks for the link. I'd misunderstood you as saying 4 in 2005.

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IMorcombe says on Dec 8, 2005, 06:46:

GIB - you wrote "If you have family here than they can slowly milk you out of everything and if you leave kill your family member or threaten too" So, are you saying that if I relocate with a 12 year old, chances are that he will be kidnapped, just because my husband looks like he has money (which he doesn't). How are gringos who live on retirement benefits treated? I guess my question is: how much money a person needs to have to make him/her a good candidate for kidnapping/extortion. Do they bother with people who just survive on a pension?
Thanks!

Maria Ines

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bickerss says on Dec 9, 2005, 14:44:

Report from LP The below is from LP where one of the people who was robbed posted.

¨¨I was one of the 30 or so people robbed in Tayrona Nat park. Cabo san juan de guias to be exact. I was tied up along with 2 colombians. Everyone was surrounded at night (24th nov) by maybe 7 balaclava clad gun weilding bandits who put out the candles and cicled us with torches. They demanded all mobile phones - at one point holding a pistol to the head of an english guy. Ultimately we were all locked in a small shop while they ransacked our belongings. They told us not to leave the shop before 8 in the morning because they would be waiting in the forest and would shoot us. They fired four shots in the middle of the night, as a bit of a warning I guess. The police were reluctant to believe our story and not really prepared to do anything. ¨¨

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viajera75 says on Dec 10, 2005, 04:25:

Hi gringoinbogota, You said you walked free for days on end in Yosemite? I guess you never heard about all the killings that occurred there. I would NEVER walk around Yosemite alone. In fact, I lived in Los Angeles, California for 25 years and that place is scary. You can't even wear certain colors for fear of getting shot by gangs and I never go out alone after dark. When I was in Jr High School, we had to stop having P.E. outdoors for a week and the school banned all hats, bandannas, and red and blue clothes because of a drive-by shooting right outside of the school. (And it was in a "nice" neighborhood. So do you think every tourist who comes to visit Los Angeles is an idiot knowing of all the dangers there? (I could list about a dozen more incidents I witnessed in L.A., but I don't have all day.) Anyways, I am also wondering why you think that tourists who come to Colombia are stupid, because I notice your handle is Gringo in Bogota...

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aztec says on Dec 10, 2005, 05:35:

gringoinbogota... ...my family has no way of knowing just how bad the danger is in Colombia. Having said that I can relate two real world incidences directly affecting two members of the immediate family.

We have learned that the Mob or whoever, one never knows who they are,have become a little more sophisticated. They don't actually need to kidnap you to be effective.

One situation I have already shared. My wife's niece was a medical doctor in Cali. She received phone calls advising that if she didn't cooperate her son would be kidnapped. She resisted until an actual attempt was made. She left her profession and with her son moved to the US under a temporary protection plan. Her son is now enrolled in computer science in a major university in the States. Colombia has lost two goods minds to the violence and the US has gained.

Another niece is a supervisor for a large brokerage firm(need to keep the type private so as not to identify). Some how the gangsters got through security and made it to her boss. He was told on the spot that he had a choice. Either come with them or begin payments. He has been paying now for two years!

In the States one would call this behavior extortion.

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juanalejo says on Dec 11, 2005, 08:22:

Aztec In Colombia we also call this behavior extortion.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 11, 2005, 11:46:

Yosemite Vs. Colombia The Yosemite kidnapping and murder of those women isn't a very useful comparison. It was an isolated act of a lone psycho who was apprehended fairly quickly. Rural crime in Colombia is completely different. It's organized and widespread, and also not frequently solved.

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