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Tourist Visa Denial Question

Hello

My fiance was applying for a tourist visa and this is her reply. The background of it is she went to apply for a student visa at the beginning of April, to which she was amazingly refused for some very "dodgy" excuses which I found, the IAS, UKCOSA and various lawyers found, to be dodgy as well. Her brother has been in UK on a work permit for over 3 years now as well. Her intentions were to come for about one year to practise her english and study her english to take the CFC or IELTS exam, as it is required for her Architectural Degree at Los Andes, at which she is currently studying. She had all the letters needed from University, Brother, Support from Mother and Father, etc. The student visa was denied on the grounds of "not enough money" - (she had around £3200 in her account, and she wouldnt be paying rent or utils so thats more than enough), Not satisfied with school - (she had paid a 9 month course, 15 hours per week, UK Accredited SChool which is the requirement they state), her brother having remained in UK for a lengthy time and so she will do the same - (hes a legal work permit holder for 3 years, he is not applying for the visa), and lastly the most hilarious of all reasons, She doesnt need to go to England to learn/practise her english. She can learn equally and obtain an equal qualification in Bogota - (DAMN FUNNY, cos we all know this is rubbish)..

After speaking to many people at various organisations, all were surprised at these decisions and laughed at the lovely decisions these people at the Bogota UK consulate make.

But yesterday, I think they topped it even more. I would like some feedback on your ideas on this matter, and whom I can contact or laywers on this discrimination towards my fiance by a UK Official at the UK consulate in Bogota.

Here is the response that she received after going to get a Tourist visa cos she just decided to still come for her holidays from University and practise english, see the sights again, and do some more travelling.

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BUT: I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraph 41(ii) of the immigration rules.

Iam aware that you wish to visit your brother in the UK and that sufficient funds are available for your maintenance and accommodation. The presence of a close family member in the UK whom you wish to visit constitutes a compassionate aspect to your application that I am obliged to consider. However, I judge the following to weigh against the issue of an entry clearance on this occasion.

In April 2005 you applied twice for an entry clearance as a student but are now applying as a visitor.
Although you provided an explanation why you are now applying as a visitor, I am not satisfied with the explanation you have given. During in terview you still expressed an interest to study and practice English. This does not satisfy me on your balance of probabilities that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor for the limited period as stated by you. Your brother is studing and working in the UK. He initially went to the UK as a student in 2001 for one year but has continually extended his stay. He now will once again seek to extend his stay in the UK. Although you state he has spoken to his college about time off from his studies during your stay, you have not provided evidence such permission has been granted. I am therefore not satisfied he has time off his studies whilst you are in UK.

Although I note that there are sufficient funds available for your visit and that you have previously complied with a previous visit visa, I am not satisfied given the above that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor on this occasion. I also note that you state you will return to studies. However, given you were happy to leave your studies for 9 months less than one month ago, I am not satisfied you intend to leave the UK at the end of your visit to resume such studies.

I have considered your application in light of the provisions of Article 8 of ECHR . I judge that the decision to refuse you entry clearance does not interfere with your family life for the purposes of Article 8 (1) as the family members you wish to visit in th UK could visit you here in Colombia, and the decision to refuse you an Entry Clearence does not have the effect of separating you from a family member. The decision to refuse you an entry clearance is justified, proportionate and pursues a legitimate aim in order to maintain an effective immigration control.

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Now this response, and decision on reading, is a quite literally the most poorly stated visa refusal I have seen, personally. He states that the finances are of no problem, but that.

Her decision was based on her previous Student Visa refusal. By him stating that he doesnt believe she will stay for just the Tourist Visa and on the balance that she is entering as a tourist, based on her student application previously. That she was going to take 9 months off of her studying to come study in England, but now she is going for a tourist visa. - Very Amusing as Why did her plans change? well cos they said no to her student visa and now she still wants to go, but for a short time, but she had to change it cos they changed her plans, so its a rhetorical pointless statement to make. As well as, it is clearly stated on the Home Office website of UK Government, a person may apply for a visa as many times as they wish, if they have further info for support. No decision will be based on previous applications. Each application is dealt with individually.

Again, they are denying her a Tourist Visa on the basis her brother has been in the UK and will be applying for a new visa. How can they refuse a tourist visa based on a family members legal status?

The official is requesting her brother to supply written proof of from his school and from his work that "he is taking time off of work to take his sister around London sightseeing or to Spain for a weekend".
- Again its amusing at the points they make up to refuse a visa.. I cannot imagine why you require proof to show that you are taking time off for weeks to take a family member around. What is the point of a tourist visa? To be a tourist, whether on your own, with friends. She can walk around London herself, or with friends. What has this got to do with anything?

Then he state based on her previous applications he is not satisfied she is entering as a Tourist, and will leave the UK after her visit and perhaps she will extend or change. - again, he is not aware of his own laws of his government. A person entering on a tourist visa, is not allowed to change or extend their status to any other entry clearance. They have to return to their country of origin to do so, This shows his lack of understanding his own laws. As well as, If she decides to stay in the UK after her tourist visa expires it will part of the Immigration service within the UK. They have her brothers Information, house address, phone number, work, and they have my information, so how can they NOT be satisfied on her return?

Lastly, i think the most amusing point of the whole refusal. The reason that Why does she have to go see her brother in London, when he can go and see her in Colombia, he doesnt see why she needs to go to London. This SHOUTS OUT DISCRIMINATION. This person is deciding personal issues on behalf of the applicant???? As a UK resident, I found is quite disgusting and sad that a UK representative who is in Bogota to promote Trade, culture, friendship etc between UK and Colombia, is denying a person a visa, on the basis that she doesnt need to go to UK but her brother can go to Colombia. So my question is WHY ON EARTH IS SHE APPLYING FOR A TOURIST VISA. TO BE A TOURIST TO HIS SILLY LITTLE COUNTRY??? This is just a slap in the face , why do any of us want to travel to another country as a tourist??? its just hilarious. The official is making a personal judgement on how the family spends their money. How can he decide who uses the money within a family.

Another point is, she has previously received a Tourist visa Last year for UK, also Italy, France, USA, so she
has a good history of travel in her passport, if she wanted to stay in UK she would have done it already previously
or in the USA.

Anyway, as you can see, this official has given PLENTY of reasons for a visa refusal, although he states she has enough money to support her trip etc etc. So my question is, how can this person blatantly discriminate towards a colombian, with reasons which are so poor and badly judged. I cannot believe these people are working and making decisions for others like this. How does one actually complain about this to the Colombian Embassy,Government or Immigration officers, as its very sad to see this happening. Of course, she is my fiance so its even more upsetting, but thing is, with such poor decisions, its sad for any person, any country to try come to the UK.
Seeing this is a Colombian site, I wanted to ask advice, feedback and also views you have

Thanks alot
cade

By cadeyboy on May 11, 2005, 00:25 in Visa & paperwork.

SingSling says on May 11, 2005, 04:11:

Been there done that You say she is your fiance so I'm afraid the only way you are going to get this done is to marry her, wives do generally get in. No way are the embassy in Bogota going to back down, she has now got a black mark against her, I spent hours and hours on the phone to the embassy trying to get my PREGNANT fiance into the UK some years ago all to no avail (I even offered to put up some sort of bond to guarantee her return to Colombia), eventually I left the UK and worked abroad so that we could be together. (The reason she couldn't get in is that she had admitted overstaying a visa in another country by the grand total of three weeks)

Once we were married she was able to get a tourist visa but even then it was only valid for 6 months (policy you understand), the US embassy in Hong Kong gave her a 5 year visa straight off!! If you are not married you cannot even go the route of applying at a British embassy abroad, they will refer you back to the embassy in Bogota.

It is pretty much the same all over the world, the UK is about the least accomodating place for tourists/visas, and unfortunately those nice folks at the embassy in Bogota are the worst of the lot (and also accountable to no-one!)

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 11, 2005, 04:56:

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cadeyboy says on May 11, 2005, 06:52:

awful its amazing what they are doing. That they deny people visas for these reasons. All it shouts out is "i have 20 people to say yes to and the rest i get paid money to say no to".. its awful ..
How they can refuse for not speaking english, and the reasons they said to my fiance. Its flabbergasting. Quite frankly disgusting, and makes me embarrassed to be a Uk resident.

Well, I have contacted the Colombian Embassy in UK

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 11, 2005, 07:06:

Why don,t you send a letter of invitation too and said you are responsible for her too. another a friend of mine her mother was refuse visa and she is been here before, so she talk with her local MP and i had the feling it may helped because her mum got the visa at the end. I think she should go and get an explanation is NOT right what they doing to her, she has all her papers in order a good track record so she is allowed to visit her brother.

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cadeyboy says on May 11, 2005, 07:19:

She didnt want me to support her/sponsor her as she said that generally if you have a friend who sponsors you they are even worse, because they immediately assume you will stay longer than you are asking for. Perhaps it may help, seeing as theyve already refused student visa, and tourist visa for absolutely no reasons, what harm could another refusal do . I guess..

Although we are planning on marrying in november, so perhaps its best left till we get the spouse visa for her.
thanks again
cade

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Cousin says on May 11, 2005, 08:08:

From my US experience If a person applies for a student visa at a US Embassy/consulate and is denied or asked to provide more proof, then apply for a different visa, it is usually assumed that the person is doing anything they can to get into the country.

That person would need to show strong proof that she is not considering to immigrate without proper papers.

He brother in the country would be more of a hindrance than a friend. The brother has a job and knows the ropes on how to help her find unauthorized employment.

I think!

Los Cuatro

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pmac says on May 12, 2005, 01:27:

That sucks !! I have also been through all of this. Don't forget that these bureaucratic pigs don't have to have any valid reason for a denial. Three time now relations of our's have had their tourist visa applications refused, the only reason given has been " the applicant may lack motivation to return to Colombia" even though all of the applications have been in order, enough money etc. It is very hard to argue with this as they don't have to provide any proof or basis for their reasoning (and you know the couldn't). It is up to you to provide all of the evidence and if they chose not to believe it because they are having a bad day or whatever, your screwed.

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pmac says on May 12, 2005, 01:45:

Idea This is the e mail of Brian Heford head of the visas dept at the British Embassy in Bogota.

brian.hefford at fco.gov.uk

How about we all write and express our heart felt opinions to him.

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Patrick says on May 12, 2005, 15:44:

Marriage....... I would recommend that you wait for a respectable period of time before you do this as your friends at the UK Consulate may deny her a visa claiming she got married for that specific purpose since she was turned down twice before.

Don't blame me I voted for Ron Paul!

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 12, 2005, 16:22:

Devil's advocate First, Cadeyboy, let me say how sorry I am to hear that you're going through this. However, if you actually want to make progress on this front, you should start by putting yourself in the shoes of the UK and the Consulate in Bogota.

These are the facts: Lots of Colombians go to foreign countries on student or tourist visas and never return. Countries don't like this. The job of the embassy visa department is to try to weed these people out. Obviously, nobody puts on their application "my real intention is to never return to Colombia and remain in the UK", so their job is a guessing game.

If you want to succeed, you need to make your fiance appear more solidly committed to Colombia and returning there. Those are things like a good job, family in Colombia, ownership of a house or business. A brother in the UK who extended his stay is a BIG mark against her, not for her. Being a student is a strike against her. Being young is a strike against her. And, believe it or not, speaking English is a mark against her.

It's a little late now, but maybe a letter from a professor explaining some reason OTHER than english classes that justifies her "educational" purpose to go there would help. Send the letter to the Consul, not the entry-level bureaucrat who denied her.

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cadeyboy says on May 12, 2005, 16:59:

thanks for the suggestion. How long would you say is a respectable time? We are planning on getting married in November. Would that be a good amount of time difference?#

thanks :)

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cadeyboy says on May 12, 2005, 16:59:

thanks for the suggestion. How long would you say is a respectable time? We are planning on getting married in November. Would that be a good amount of time difference?#

thanks :)

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SingSling says on May 13, 2005, 12:20:

On marriage One way of doing it is to go to a European country (such as Spain) live there for a while together and then go to the UK, under European law the UK would be obliged to admit you both. Actually check with a lawyer what timescale is involved here, it ia a long way round but since neither of you has a history with the other country's embassy it might well be one alternative.

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cadeyboy says on May 16, 2005, 09:13:

reply by Bogota Embassy I received a reply from the Embassy in Bogota, in a personal email address to me. It was long, and repeated in longer words what they denied her tourist visa for. It is amusing, indepth, and some points I can see from their point of view, but again, its amusing as its just the same thing that politicians do. Repeat a few times just changing words here and there, so you dont really understand anything they say... and so many contradictions.. oh well

I would post the reply here, but with regards to his request I shant.
Thanks alot :)
ill keep you in the know

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