Total autonomy for the American military in Colombia?

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 04:13:

tasco66 says on Jul 3, 2009, 05:41:

Dolfi, don't you have American bases in Germany???? jajajaja...please remind us how they got there...jajajaja

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

0 funny, 3 helpful.

theflatline says on Jul 3, 2009, 08:40:

The Germans also act like the holocaust never happened either. And to be fair Al Sharpton thinks the same thing.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 08:42:

Well flatline, you grew up in the region of the Great Diaspora. What do you know about the 1755 Arcadian holocost?

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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theflatline says on Jul 3, 2009, 08:57:

I was born in Houma, lived in Bayou Black(Gibson) and Houma til I was 12 and though spent my formative years in New Orleans I went to college at Nicholls State in Thibodaux.

I can sing Big Mamou and Opelousas Sostan with the best of them. I even eat shoepick and gaspergou. Paw Paw used to tell me stories about the rougarou when I was little.

My mothers family settled throughout Lafourche parish and my grandfather spoke french before english. His family was a mix of Acadian and Sicilian. So I know all about it. Last name was Cancienne. Kinda funny it even says it on my Cedula.

I have a unique heritage. Colombian grandmother and grandfather was a consul from Panama to Colombia. Grand pops was Jewish and his wife died so he married a Colombian girl and settled in Colombia.

So I am comprised of many cast off groups, maybe some clue to as why I have wondered around all my life.

So I am a true Colombian coonass. My grandmother called me her sabine grandson jokingly.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 1 helpful.

lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 09:04:

So you don't know a thing about the "Great Diaspora" and that many consider to have far exceeded the crimes of the holocost. Your own relatives.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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theflatline says on Jul 3, 2009, 10:10:

I know they were beaten, shipped off, treated as slaves, less than human. When they hit Louisiana the Spanish changed their names to Spanish ones. Scattered all over the place.

In Louisiana when I was in school they taught us a lot of history.

The crimes were comparable to the holocaust, but there were no mass exterminations. Hard to equate 1000's with millions.

I know a great deal about the history of all in the groups that have culminated in me.

I just do not blindly favor one over the other.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:05:

Wouldn't it be better to annex Colombia directly to USA then? As a "free Associated State"? There wouldn't be any problem with having a base or total autonomy for the military or military immunity? And Colombians could finally be called "American" like they always wanted?

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

3 funny, 1 helpful.

lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:35:

I think Desi was being sarcastic and speaking with her tounge in her cheek. Dry humor is VERY dificult here on the internet.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:47:

Yes, I was trying to be sarcastic.

To deploy US military personnel all over the Colombian territory, with total autonomy and not subjected to the laws of the country is the closest equivalent of handing your sovereignity over to another state.

The Finnish UN troops are subjected to the special UN jurisdiction. But the US military personnel cannot even be brought to the International Court in the Haig, like other war criminals.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

1 funny, 2 helpful.

lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:52:

I don't think the intent is to deploy "ALL OVER the Colombian territory".

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:54:

azuno...mine is so dry even I forget I was trying to be funny sometimes!!
ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:56:

"Los planes estadounidenses incluyen la utilización de cinco bases: Palanquero, en pleno centro colombiano, la pista más antigua de la aviación militar; Apiay, en Villavicencio, puerta de entrada a medio país cubierto de selva y llanuras; Malambo, en la costa Atlántica, y dos bases navales, una en el Pacífico y otra en el Atlántico."

That's five bases, Palanquero in the middle of the country, Apiay in Villavicencio, Malambo on the Atlantic coast and two naval bases, one on the Pacific and one on the Atlantic.

That covers pretty much all of the country.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:59:

I meant as if they would be roaming the countryside at will. But you never know...perhaps they will. Colombia could always say no.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:03:

Perhaps not roaming, but they would be located as to cover most of the Colombian territory. Yes, the Congress has not voted on it yet.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:05:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:07:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:15:

I don't know makopp5, probably a lot less than the Germans. The Finnish peace-keeping troups have been all over the planet, in places of real fighting, from the Suez and Golan heights to Aceh and Namibia.

"Finland's participation in the UN's peacekeeping operations
Mr. Martti Ahtisaari, 2008 Nobel Laureate and former President of Finland, with Mr. Jordan Ryan (right), Deputy Special Representative of the Secretary-General for UNMIL: CMI's 'Open dialogue', Liberia 28 Nov. 2008 (UN Photo/Christopher Herwig)The UN plays a pivotal role among the international actors that are engaged in crisis management. Finland will support the UN also in future by taking part in operations led by the organisation. However, Finland's input, like that of the other EU Member States, is on the decline because other organisations have become more active in the field of crisis management.

United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation (UNTSO)
United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP)
United Nations Mission In Sudan (UNMIS)
United Nations African Union Mission in Darfur (UNAMID)
United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK)
United Nations Mission in Liberia (UNMIL)
United Nations Mission in the Central African Republic and Chad (MINURCAT)
At the beginning of 2009, the total strength of Finland's contribution to military crisis management operations conducted by the UN, the EU, NATO and the AU was about 700 peacekeepers. According to the Government Report on Finnish Security and Defence Policy, Finland strengthens its participation in international crisis management and is expected not only to be involved in the increasingly demanding operational environments but also to deploy more specialised units and niche capabilities to crisis management tasks.

UN's peacekeeping operations with Finnish participation:

United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation (UNTSO)
Middle East
Finland has contributed to the operation since 1967. At the beginning of 2009, the number of Finnish personnel in the operation was 16.

UNTSO (operations website)

United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP)
India and Pakistan
Finns have participated in the operation since and, at the beginning of 2009, there were five Finns in the mission personnel.

UNMOGIP (operations website)

United Nations Mission In Sudan (UNMIS)
Sudan
Finland has participated in monitoring of the implementation of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, signed in January 2005. At the beginning of 2009, one Finn was involved in the operation.

UNMIS (operations website)

United Nations African Union Mission in Darfur (UNAMID)
Sudan (Darfur)
The operation was launched at the beginning of 2008. In the early 2009, Finland deployed six police officers but no military crisis management personnel to the mission.

UNAMID (operations website)

United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK)
Kosovo
The UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo was established in 1999. At the end of 2008, UNMIK transferred its remaining tasks to the European Union Justice Component EULEX Kosovo. Its tasks include assisting the Kosovo government authorities. Finland had one civilian expert in the UNMIK operation at the beginning of 2009.

UNMIK (operations website)

United Nations Mission in Liberia (UNMIL)
Liberia
The United Nations Mission in Liberia (UNMIL) is a peacekeeping operation in Liberia, which was launched in September 2003. At the beginning of 2009, two Finnish experts were participating in the operation.

UNMIL (operations website)

United Nations Mission in the Central African Republic and Chad (MINURCAT)
Chad (Tchad) and Central African Republic
The UN Security Council decided in January 2009 that the United Nations Mission in Central African Republic and Chad MINURCAT (*) will be reinforced as from 15 March 2009 by a military component (UN Resolution 1861).

Finland deployed some 60 military personnel to the EU Operation EUFOR Tchad/RCA, which ended in March 2009. The Finnish detachment in EUFOR was transferred to serve under the administration of the UN and its strength is now about 80 military personnel.

*) Chad = Tchad (French spelling used in the EU)

MINURCAT (operations website)"

http://formin.finland.fi/Public/default.aspx?nodeid=32296&contentlan=2...

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:23:

quantum says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:24:

Like Azuno suggested, "save the money, close the base and walk away. Put soldiers to work filling potholes, fixing hwys and bridges, etc, etc. We cant afford the luxury of foreign adventures anymore.. The printing presses are working overtime and cant print phoney money fast enuff. Calif even is bankrupt and the Chinese are sick of buying devalued treasury bonds. . The Colombians can take care of themselves and if necessary we can always pitch em some of that counterfeit currency along with some technical expertise.......Its time for us to take the log out of our own eye before we worry about the splinter in our neighbors eye. I live in Panama, and I tell u, Im stoked that there are no U.S. troops here any more. I like it that way.......And if they install 5 bases in Colombia, well, I guess I will just spend more time in Ecuador, Peru and Chile...Theres better surf than Colombia anyway.........

quantum

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:30:

You asked where the Finnish UN troops were serving and I googled an answer. That's all I know about this topic. Which is basically nothing. It has nothing to do with the issue in the original post. Personally I would prefer the UN peacekeeping troups and crisis management personnel in Colombia than the US marines, but that's just a personal choice.

Azuno, yes, I'm aware that the US military personal is subjected to strict rules, I have a brother and a nephew both career miltar personnel in USA. Happy 4th of July :) !

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

2 funny, 0 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:33:

lpdiver says on Jul 3, 2009, 12:37:

Isn't there a United States naval base in Colombia at this moment? I have a Finnish friend who has told stories of living there and constructing it. I will have to ask next party we have.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Loggi says on Jul 3, 2009, 13:00:

Personally I would prefer the UN peacekeeping troups and crisis management personnel in Colombia than the US marines.

Very funny.

At least you wont have to concern yourself about Total autonomy as the UN never leave their base.

Live for the moments you can't put into words

1 funny, 0 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 13:04:

Loggi says on Jul 3, 2009, 13:10:

Just look at their success rate in Burundi, Somalia, and Sudan. They are overpaid, over fed,useless and haven't saved ONE single life in any of these conflicts. Yet they are financed to the tune of billions of taxpayers money

Live for the moments you can't put into words

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tasco66 says on Jul 3, 2009, 13:16:

"Personally I would prefer the UN peacekeeping troups"

No way! We don't want these pedophile barbarians here:

"LAST MONTH A CLASSIFIED UNITED Nations report prompted Secretary General Kofi Annan to admit that U.N. peacekeepers and staff have sexually abused or exploited war refugees in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The worst of the 150 or so allegations of misconduct--some of them captured on videotape--include pedophilia, rape, and prostitution."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/081z...

"Pakistani UN peacekeeping troops have traded in gold and sold weapons to Congolese militia groups they were meant to disarm, the BBC has learnt.

These militia groups were guilty of some of the worst human rights abuses during the Democratic Republic of Congo's long civil war.

The trading went on in 2005. A UN investigative team sent to gather evidence was obstructed and threatened.

The team's report was buried by the UN itself to "avoid political fallout".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6681457.stm

In a new report referring to the widespread sex scandal as "the U.N.'s Abu Ghraib," the London Times provides some specific examples, including:

A French U.N. logistics expert in the Congo shot pornographic videos in his home, in which he had converted his bedroom into a photo studio for videotaping his sexual abuse of young girls. When police raided his home, the man was allegedly about to rape a 12-year-old girl sent to him in a law enforcement sting operation. As the Times reported, a senior Congolese police officer confirmed the bed was surrounded by large mirrors on three sides, with a remote control camera on the fourth side.

U.N. officials are worried that the scandal, which already has netted 150 allegations of sex crimes by U.N. staffers, will explode if the pornographic videos and photos, now on sale in Congo, becoming public
"It would be a pretty big problem for the U.N. if these pictures come out," one senior official told the Times.

Two Russian pilots paid young girls with jars of mayonnaise and jam to have sex with them, the report adds.

U.N. "peacekeepers" from Morocco based in Kisangani – a secluded town on the Congo River – are notorious for impregnating local women and girls. In March, an international group probing the scandal found 82 women and girls had been made pregnant by Moroccan U.N. staffers and 59 others by Uruguayan staffers. One U.N. soldier accused of rape was apparently hidden in the barracks for a year.
Congo's Minister of Defense Maj.-Gen. Jean Pierre Ondekane told a top U.N. official that all U.N. "peacekeepers" in Kisangani would be remember for would be "for running after little girls," the Times reported.

And at least two U.N. officials – a Ukrainian and a Canadian – have been forced to leave the African nation after getting local women pregnant.
Most of the sexual abuse and exploitation, says the report, involves trading sex for money, food or jobs. However, some victims say they were raped, but later given food or money to make the incident appear to have been consensual – "rape disguised as prostitution."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42088

Who will keep us safe from the UN peacekeepers?"

"UN officials have complained that, because nations want to protect their sovereignty, the world body can do little to discipline such abusive peacekeepers. We are supposed to believe that if we only gave more power to the world army, there would be less abuse of those the peacekeepers are supposed to be protecting. The chief of staff for Secretary-General Kofi Annan told a U.S. congressional panel that, "for me, the United Nations is not over-sized, over-resourced or under-supervised by its member states." He complained of too much supervision, saying the secretary-general is "mired in a web of governmental committees and outdated rules that impede his freedom to manage."

This is not just a matter of a few bad apples abusing their power. A liberal reporter for the Washington Post, Keith Richburg, had his eyes opened when he covered a number of UN operations in Africa; several are described in his compelling book Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa. For example, he says that events in Somalia dashed the hopes of the world, as well as his own, "that Africa might somehow become the testing ground of the New World Order and the idea of benign military intervention."

Richburg describes the horrendous bureaucratic hurdles imposed by the UN in Somalia. He also recalls journalists and international do-gooders partying in formal evening wear, with rock bands blaring, at a benefit banquet--while Somali children and refugees "climbed trees or onto nearby walls just for a glimpse of what must have seemed a very weird foreign tribal ritual." As for the warring parties, the UN just threw money at them, which is rightly called extortion by the author. The UN "was effectively paying the thugs not to shoot the [peacekeeping] soldiers coming in to keep the peace." Moreover, it didn't work.

Elsewhere, he recounts the horrendous brutality in Rwanda, where the UN was complicit in mass murder. In one incident, Prime Minister Agathe Uwilingiyimana tried to find refuge at the UN compound but was found by her killers, dragged to the street, and executed. That was about the time, Richburg writes, "when ten Belgian troops arrived to protect her. Following an instruction radioed from the UN headquarters in Kigali, the Belgians laid down their arms, hoping to avoid a confrontation with the crowd; they too were brutally tortured and executed."

Such disgraces took place while the UN was supposedly calling the shots. Do we really want to make the military arm of such a world body more "effective"?

The UN's record when it has the upper hand over vulnerable populations is hardly reassuring. Strangely, it is often those who complain the loudest about the occasional unlawful actions of U.S. troops--who are governed by a system of checks and balances and operate under a bona fide military justice system, unlike UN troops--who would empower foreign troops with more power, even over American citizens and soldiers. Yet, as the Romans asked centuries ago, who will guard us from the guardians? A government big enough to enforce world peace is big enough to impose world tyranny.

Indeed, if the UN had enough power to enforce what it calls global peace--meaning a lack of resistance to its dictates--it surely would tyrannize the world."

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-13879549_ITM

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

0 funny, 1 helpful.

quantum says on Jul 3, 2009, 15:55:

Desi, I hope u read this thoroughly and that it dispells any illusions u may have had about the efficacy of the U.N. "Peacekeeping troops". For once I am in complete agreement with Tasco. The U.N. is a farce, a disaster and even the U.S. Military looks good in comparison........

quantum

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deathnova says on Jul 3, 2009, 18:29:

No, there is no U.S. Navy base in Colombia.

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 20:15:

billyb says on Jul 3, 2009, 20:23:

"Wouldn't it be better to annex Colombia directly to USA then? As a "free Associated State"? '

Do you mean kind of like Finland was to Russia for the latter half of the 20th century? What was that called? Finlandisation, I believe? How did it feel having to clear everything with the Kremlin Desi?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

0 funny, 1 helpful.

billyb says on Jul 3, 2009, 20:33:

"quantum says on Jul 3, 2009, 15:55 (today): flag
Desi, I hope u read this thoroughly and that it dispells any illusions u may have had about the efficacy of the U.N. "Peacekeeping troops". For once I am in complete agreement with Tasco. The U.N. is a farce, a disaster and even the U.S. Military looks good in comparison.......'

So true quantum, anybody that thinks the UN stands for any principles and thinks that they will act to defend those imaginary principles, is naive at best, and deluded at worst.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 21:10:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:06:

vinod says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:11:

Maybe Hugo thinks he can stick around as long as Fidel did.

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:17:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:19:

billyb says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:21:

"And you wonder why your towers come down."

No Chris, why don't you tell us?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:23:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:24:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:28:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:31:

vinod says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:31:

This Canadian travels to the States a lot.

I like Americans, for the most part. Does that make me different than the "average Canadian"?

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:34:

billyb says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:36:

"I did edit a couple and in Mogo's defense, they did make him look a little more Mongoish than he is. I wasn't trying to be sneaky, I'm just a careful Canadian. You americans sure move fast.."

Why would you want to do that? Editing your posts after somebody comments on them is a bit pathetic.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:37:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:40:

Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:44:

Vadoom says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:45:

Let me guess wasnt this 5 bases deal a part of Uribe meeting with Obama recently? I think Uribe (stepping down) tries to secure Colombia from hot heads like Chavez.
As far as I know american military personnel on overseas bases are immunized like diplomats are. No matter what country Afghanistan or Japan.

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 3, 2009, 22:51:

billyb says on Jul 3, 2009, 23:00:

Romy is alright, mugrecito and adolphi are tools.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 1 helpful.

kramer says on Jul 3, 2009, 23:10:

Even in the USA, the American military is under a different system of jurisdiction. I don't know all the details and I am not an expert at all, but my vague understanding is that for a civilian district attorney in the USA to prosecute a military man in the USA, he has to get permission from the military, or at least the military can claim jurisdiction and prosecute him under their own military justice system.

Only at the top is there a civilian, the commander in chief, the president of the USA.

Kramer

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:07:

I'm a firm believer that the United Nations organization was the ONLY positive result of the the two world wars. Too bad certain nations have started discrediting the UTMOST valuable work they do in all different levels from pace-keeping to vaccinations, education, defense of children and women, culture etc, and last but not least, providing an international forum where even the LITTLE GUY has a voice and is allowed to speak.

It's not perfect, of course, and such a huge organization has certainly a whole bunch of bad apples in its roster, after all. not all the countries that actively participate in UN operations have the same traditions of democracy and transparency as we Scandinavian and most western nations have. But if you look back, over the decades since the sexond world war ended, much good has been achieved by this organization.

BillyB, your comparing Finland's relationship with Russia back inthe sixties or seventies with that of the Free Associated State of Puerto Rico with USA is totally off the wall and ridiculous. I wasn't around in these parts of the world at that time, but I understand that in certain matters concerning our foreign policy matters were discussed with Soviet leaders, but there was no large-scale "finlandisation" that was just a propaganda concept created by the politicians and media in a polarized world during the cold war period.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:13:

Ok, if you say so, but it still stands that Finland had to clear their foreign policy with Gorby and the rest of the Politburo. But having said that, my pops instilled in us a great respect for Finland. They were caught between the proverbial hard place and a rock. Hmmm, somewhat similar to Colombia's predicament, no? BTW Desi, what happened your post stating that Colombia was the US's free (as in bitch) state? You didn't delete it did you?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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miamimike says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:17:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 3, 2009, 11:56: flag

"Los planes estadounidenses incluyen la utilización de cinco bases: Palanquero, en pleno centro colombiano, la pista más antigua de la aviación militar; Apiay, en Villavicencio, puerta de entrada a medio país cubierto de selva y llanuras; Malambo, en la costa Atlántica, y dos bases navales, una en el Pacífico y otra en el Atlántico."

That's five bases, Palanquero in the middle of the country, Apiay in Villavicencio, Malambo on the Atlantic coast and two naval bases, one on the Pacific and one on the Atlantic.

That covers pretty much all of the country.
========================================================================================

Desi--I doubt with the current US Economic climate that not only will there not be 5 US bases in Colombia, there will not even be one built. With our Florida Air &Naval bases to cover Colombia, where's the Economic justification for even one base in Colombia today? Future US Overseas base building will really be scrutinized nowdays, the easy day of someone doing a little lobbying & snapping their fingers and getting a foreign base are long gone,,,

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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billyb says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:19:

"But if you look back, over the decades since the sexond world war ended, much good has been achieved by this organization.'

Start naming them. Do you mean Rwanda? Srebrenica? Laos? Iran? Kosovo?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 1 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:25:

BillyB, I will, but I have to step out now. I'll be back to provide you a a two page list of UN successes in peace keeping, health (WHO), education (UNESCO), etc etc UN umbrella organisations that have been active half a century all over the world.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:28:

As I have stated before, all you need to know about the tender mercies of the UN, is that Libya, Syria, Sudan, Egypt, China, Cuba, Pakistan , Iran , Cuba and countless others have been nominated to the UN's Commission on Human Rights. Desi, are these countries the ones who we should entrust the course of human rights in the world to?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:33:

Desi, can you tall us what the UN has said regarding the situation in Iran?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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billyb says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:39:

"I'll be back to provide you a a two page list of UN successes in peace keeping, "

Desi, I remember you touting that ex or current Finn PM or whatever he was , and how he was an example of negotiations working (in Sri Lanka in this instance). And although I do admire him, because he did all he could and he honestly thought he had brought peace to that island. It all blew apart a few months ago. And what finally brought peace to that island? Was it negotiations? No!!!!!, it was a complete military victory over those terrorists. Lest you forget, the Tamil Tigers were the onse that introduced suicide bombers to this world and then improvised by using teen age girls..

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Chriscan (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 4, 2009, 01:41:

miamimike says on Jul 4, 2009, 02:08:

These bases could destabilize Colombia too. With Uribe as popular as he is, things should just keep going as they are. Security has slipped a little in the past couple of years and could be reinforced but allowing 5 bases is just risky
---------------------------------------------------------------

In anyone's wildest dreams, 5 bases in Colombia ain't gonna happen. Not even One,,, Or maybe they will, the day Chicken grow teeth,,,

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 4, 2009, 02:25:

Billy, it was not Sri Lanka. It was ACEH. And things are much better there.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Jul 4, 2009, 04:38:

Story may be from the same source.

"Five Colombian Bases to Host U.S. Military, Magazine Says"

"BOGOTA – A soon-to-be-signed, 10-year bilateral cooperation pact will give U.S. military personnel the right to operate from five bases in Colombia, the newsweekly Cambio reported Thursday."

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=338506&CategoryId=12393

0 funny, 1 helpful.

miamimike says on Jul 4, 2009, 07:33:

Aztec--and where would the funding come from in these recessionary times? Do you have any Idea of the Funding needed for 5 Bases? Think it (funding) would pass muster in the US Congress?

From above article and much more likely:

"Asked if the United States might deploy aircraft carriers in international waters near Colombia, he said such a development was possible with or without a basing agreement."

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tasco66 says on Jul 4, 2009, 07:45:

I liked the UN when the Nazis were running it...that guy Kurt Waldheim sure knew how to run things...

After him you just had non-stop corruption scandals:

United Nations Scandal: Kofi Annan Aide Shredded Thousands of Documents

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4200

Kofi Annan is a symptom of the UN's sickness.

http://www.aish.com/ci/s/48909267.html

U.N. Family Ties: Is There a Replay of the Kofi and Kojo Annan Scandal?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160081,00.html

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

0 funny, 1 helpful.

aztec says on Jul 4, 2009, 08:39:

Money would come from the same place Obama is currently getting it. He is simply printing it like there was no tomorrow!

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 4, 2009, 09:43:

"the US isn't going to allow some banana republic jurisdiction over it's citizens and soldiers...nor anyone else for that matter..."

I knew you regard Colombia as just another banana republic that you can push around at will.

Germany or any other country doesn´t allow this either....as long as it´s citizens remain in their own country. If you keep your military in the USA, everything will be fine.

By the way, I´ve been told that american tourists in Mexico saw canadian flags on their bagpacks to be treated nicer by the people.

3 funny, 0 helpful.

tasco66 says on Jul 4, 2009, 09:49:

"I knew you regard Colombia as just another banana republic that you can push around at will"

Nope, he was referring to Germany, defeated twice by the USA!

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

0 funny, 2 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 4, 2009, 10:20:

miamimike says on Jul 4, 2009, 10:23:

aztec says on Jul 4, 2009, 08:39 (today): flag


He is simply printing it like there was no tomorrow!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something like Bush did when he plunged us into that Money Pit known as Iraq and a big reason why we, the USA, are in the Financial Straits we are in today. Too bad Obama didn't have the Financial Luxury Bush had when he was sworn in as Bush did, namely a Nice Surplus Clinton left of over $400 Billion $$$. Still I have faith the USA will dig itself out of the hole it was left in, we, as a Country, always do,,,

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

1 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Jul 4, 2009, 11:29:

Exactly! I didn't condone it then and it is only getting worse.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 4, 2009, 11:55:

"A 2005 RAND Corp study found the UN to be successful in two out of three peacekeeping efforts. It compared UN nation-building efforts to those of the United States, and found that seven out of eight UN cases are at peace, as opposed to four out of eight US cases at peace.[21] Also in 2005, the Human Security Report documented a decline in the number of wars, genocides and human rights abuses since the end of the Cold War, and presented evidence, albeit circumstantial, that international activism — mostly spearheaded by the UN — has been the main cause of the decline in armed conflict since the end of the Cold War.[22] Situations where the UN has not only acted to keep the peace but also occasionally intervened include the Korean War (1950-1953), and the authorization of intervention in Iraq after the Persian Gulf War in 1990."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Failures:
"Disagreements in the Security Council about military action and intervention are seen as having failed to prevent the 1994 Rwandan Genocide,[23] failed to provide humanitarian aid and intervene in the Second Congo War, failed to intervene in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre and protect a refugee haven by the authorizing the peacekeepers to use force, failure to deliver food to starving people in Somalia, failure to implement provisions of Security Council resolutions related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and continuing failure to prevent genocide or provide assistance in Darfur."

This is just a small overall analysis of the successes and failures of the UN in peacekeeping efforts. As the first paragraph shows, the efforts have been mainly positive.

I'm not even getting into the decades of successes that the UN has had in International law (the hague courts were not given to the UN by US, but were initiated either in the Security Council or the General Assembly), disarmament, labour laws, children and women's rights, health, education etc. etc.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

2 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jul 4, 2009, 12:18:

USA is not helping Colombia figthing the drug problem, USA is benefiting from it, just like Uribe, Farc, Paramilitares.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

2 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 6, 2009, 02:41:

According to the CIA Factbook, the USA is "world's largest consumer of cocaine (shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean), Colombian heroin, and Mexican heroin and marijuana;"

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/208...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 6, 2009, 03:08:

The presence of american military and mercenaries in Colombia is nothing new.

In july 2001 there was an arttivle in El Tiempo which read:

“Según el diario The Nation, el mas leido de Canadá, bajo el titulo de “El Problema de la Droga en DynCorp", en mayo del 2000 la Policía de Colombia encontró rastros de Heroina en un paquete que iba a ser enviado por operarios de la firma en Colombia a una de sus sedes en La Florida. El informe se fandamenta en un document interno de la DEA que se hizo public luego de que el diario apelara al Acto para la Libertad de información que permite desclasificar algunos documentos del Estado requeridos por la opinión pública.

Según el document, la policía interceptó el 12 de mayo de 2001 en el aeropuerto El Dorado de Bogotá un paquete del Federal Express conteniendo botellas con un liquid parecido al aceite de motor. Peso: 250 gramos. El liquid, según la DEA, dió positivo para heroina y las botellas habían sido enviadas por un funcionario de DynCorp e iban dirigidas a su casa en la base Patrick de la Fuerza Aérea de Estados Unidos en Florida.

Expertos dicen que la heroina es soluble en aceite y por consiguiente puede ser extraida nuevamente sin mayor dificultad.”

(S. G. Castro Caycedo, Con las Manos en alto, Bogotá 2001, p. 206f.)

It is clear that they want to be immune from Colombian judiciary for this kind of activities.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 6, 2009, 03:23:

In the same book there is a good comment on how the USA "helps Colombia with the drug problem". A doctor says, talkin about the american mercenaries active in Colombia:

"Mire una cosa: se trata de ex militares que no solamente vuelan sus aviones y helicópteros, la mayoría da las vezes drogados. Es que en estos bases, la mayoría de los mercenarios, no todos desde luego, pero si la gran mayoría son viciosos. Viciosos y pendencieros como pocos. Ellos también participan en operativos, acompañados por policías y militares colombianos, y cuando encuentran las cocinas de la droga, lo que incautan es para ellos y en eso no se meten ni la Policía ni el Ejército, que parecen sus ayudantes. Aqui todos los yanquis andan armados y les dan bala a los campesinos de la zona y los matan o los dejan malheridos y luego dicen que se trataba de narcos para justificar la droga que agarran para ellos y luego traen a la base. Entonces en esta selva los campesinos son los que "llevan el bulto"; mejor dicho: los que pagan los platos rotos. Uno les pregunta: "Dash, John, Duncan, ustedes por qué matan gente inocente? Los campesino trajinan la hoja de coca para no morir de hambre. Ellos no son narcos", y la respuesta siempre es igual:
"A ti que te importa? Tú eres sospechoso. Tú debes ser el narco y tratas de protegerlos." (p. 224f.)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jul 6, 2009, 07:01:

Dolfi, does your old Stazi uniform still fit?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 7, 2009, 03:59:

Very revealing information about the activities of US military and private mercenary companies hired by the US government can be found here:

www.prensarural.org/spip/IMG/doc/dyncorp_acus_eng.doc

spanish version:

www.prensarural.org/spip/IMG/doc/dyncorp_acus_esp.doc

One of the main players in the game is DynCorp, http://www.dyn-intl.com/

“Protecting What Really Matters - Supporting U.S. interests worldwide”

This company is a main partner in Plan Colombia and describes it´s activities as follows:

“[DynCorp] has a social purpose of providing support services for bilateral anti-narcotics programs between the US and Colombian governments. In order to achieve this, the branch acquires, possesses, taxes, and deeds all types of moveable and real property; transfers, accepts, negotiates, discounts, etc., all types of negotiable instruments and other civil and commercial documents necessary or suitable for achieving its objectives; participates either as a shareholder or founder, in other companies; receives cash loans, with or without real or personal guarantees; and in general carries out all types of acts or contracts directly related with this company’s principal social purpose in Colombia.”

As intended for the upcoming American bases in Colombia, DynCorp people are immune from any control by Colombian authorities (“This arrangement means that no Colombian government agency may exercise any control or oversight of the bi-national programs undertaken by mercenary transnational security enterprises, which are legalized through these agreements. Colombian agencies do not even have information concerning the number of mercenaries in the country. “)
Consequently, Dyncorp employees made use of these liberties as they pleased:

“The conventional immunity for the US mission in Colombia has allowed members of this enterprise to commit several crimes in Colombia, principally relating to drug trafficking. For instance, in May 2000, recently after Plan Colombia was implemented, several small bottles containing heroin were detected at the El Dorado airport in Bogotá in which “the enterprise DynCorp appeared as the sender of a package with the final destination of the Patrick Air Base in Florida.” [55]

Once the heroin was detected at the airport, the Colombian police officer conducting the initial investigation for these acts was immediately removed from his post (even though he held the rank of general) by order of the Narcotics Affairs Section of the US Embassy in Bogotá, [56] which demonstrates the immense power held by this office to intervene with Colombian government authorities.

When the Canadian Newspaper “The Nation” uncovered this scandal, Janet Wineriter, spokesperson for DynCorp, replied that said liquid did not contain heroin: “They were simply oil samples that should be sent by DynCorp technicians on a periodic basis, and that the tests had been done with apparently faulty equipment that had produced an incorrect reading.” [57]

With respect to this act, US Congressmember Jan Schakowsky tried to introduce an amendment prohibiting the use of military contract workers, asserting “reports that DynCorp employees have been implicated in drug trafficking, the very thing they are paid to help prevent, only strengthens my conviction that outsourcing is the wrong policy.” [58]

Also in 2000, Michael Demons, a paramedic belonging to a DynCorp team operating at the Tres Esquinas military base in Caquetá (southern Colombia) died from heart attack at a hospital in Florencia, capital of this department: “tests conducted by medical examiners demonstrated that the cause of death of the US citizen had been an overdose of cocaine.” [59] Although a preliminary investigation was begun, the case file mysteriously disappeared from the archives at the Office of the Attorney General.

In 2002, the 25-year-old DynCorp employee Alexander Wakefield Ross Cáceres, who operated at an anti-narcotics base in the department of Putumayo, died from hitting his head on the moving propeller of an OV-10 aerial spraying aircraft. The pilot’s mother, Elena Cáceres, assured that he was murdered: “He did not have to go anywhere near the planes, since he worked as geographic computation technician and spent his time in front of machines quite distinct to that of aircraft. Additionally, reports say he died in the hospital at Mocoa, when in reality the blow caused his immediate death on the airstrip. […] This was no accident, as claimed by DynCorp. He knew something related to drugs and the company’s pilots. People close to the company say that over the last two years other mysterious deaths of foreigners have also occurred.” [60]

These acts, yet to be clarified, demonstrate the irregularities surrounding the actions of the contract workers in Colombia as well as their links to activities related to drug trafficking.

In October 2004, it was revealed that contract workers operating in Tolemaida distributed a video in which they could be observed sexually violating underage girls from the town of Melgar. This video was even sold on the main streets of Bogotá. [61] Nonetheless, the Lawyers’ Collective has not learned of any criminal investigation undertaken in relation to these acts involving minors. According to follow-up work carried out by the Lawyers’ Collective through interviewing persons from this community, it was discovered that one of the minors involved in the videos committed suicide some time after the publication of the videos.

In march 2005, five US military members, belonging to the Armed Forces Antinarcotics Training Center, were detained for transporting 16 kilos of cocaine in a US military aircraft from the base at Apiay (Meta) to Texas, as reported by the Bogotá-based newspaper El Tiempo in an editorial titled “Narcosoldiers.”

Later, according to the same newspaper, a Colombian former soldier, whose last name was Jiménez, was implicated in the investigation. Furthermore, it was stated he worked with an enterprise contracted by Plan Colombia and operated from the base at Larandia and with the navy in Tumaco (Nariño). It was also asserted, “he could be fundamental piece to uncovering the connections of the detained US military members”, since “he was one of the first persons to connect the contract worker foreign enterprise with the drug dealers with the aim to conceal the alkaloid among military canisters.” [62]

Although the implicated persons are US soldiers, relations with the mafia were carried out by a contract worker agency. (And DynCorp was the only contract worker agency operating in the place of the acts.)

In May 2005, the US citizens Alan Norman Tanquary and José Hernández, who confirmed they were members of the US Army’s Special Forces 7th Group as well as shooting-drill instructors at the Army’s National Training Center in Tolemaida (which also has strong presence of private contract workers), were arrested in the act of trafficking more than 30,000 projectiles to paramilitary groups in the area of Carmen de Apicalá, which is on the highway connecting the departments of Tolima and Cundinamarca.

No Colombian or US authority issued a pronouncement clarifying the episode, the persons most involved in the acts, or its operation status regarding Plan Colombia antinarcotics activities. In this respect, it is not even known if the US citizens really belonged to the US Army.“

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 7, 2009, 03:59:

Very revealing information about the activities of US military and private mercenary companies hired by the US government can be found here:

www.prensarural.org/spip/IMG/doc/dyncorp_acus_eng.doc

spanish version:

www.prensarural.org/spip/IMG/doc/dyncorp_acus_esp.doc

One of the main players in the game is DynCorp, http://www.dyn-intl.com/

“Protecting What Really Matters - Supporting U.S. interests worldwide”

This company is a main partner in Plan Colombia and describes it´s activities as follows:

“[DynCorp] has a social purpose of providing support services for bilateral anti-narcotics programs between the US and Colombian governments. In order to achieve this, the branch acquires, possesses, taxes, and deeds all types of moveable and real property; transfers, accepts, negotiates, discounts, etc., all types of negotiable instruments and other civil and commercial documents necessary or suitable for achieving its objectives; participates either as a shareholder or founder, in other companies; receives cash loans, with or without real or personal guarantees; and in general carries out all types of acts or contracts directly related with this company’s principal social purpose in Colombia.”

As intended for the upcoming American bases in Colombia, DynCorp people are immune from any control by Colombian authorities (“This arrangement means that no Colombian government agency may exercise any control or oversight of the bi-national programs undertaken by mercenary transnational security enterprises, which are legalized through these agreements. Colombian agencies do not even have information concerning the number of mercenaries in the country. “)
Consequently, Dyncorp employees made use of these liberties as they pleased:

“The conventional immunity for the US mission in Colombia has allowed members of this enterprise to commit several crimes in Colombia, principally relating to drug trafficking. For instance, in May 2000, recently after Plan Colombia was implemented, several small bottles containing heroin were detected at the El Dorado airport in Bogotá in which “the enterprise DynCorp appeared as the sender of a package with the final destination of the Patrick Air Base in Florida.” [55]

Once the heroin was detected at the airport, the Colombian police officer conducting the initial investigation for these acts was immediately removed from his post (even though he held the rank of general) by order of the Narcotics Affairs Section of the US Embassy in Bogotá, [56] which demonstrates the immense power held by this office to intervene with Colombian government authorities.

When the Canadian Newspaper “The Nation” uncovered this scandal, Janet Wineriter, spokesperson for DynCorp, replied that said liquid did not contain heroin: “They were simply oil samples that should be sent by DynCorp technicians on a periodic basis, and that the tests had been done with apparently faulty equipment that had produced an incorrect reading.” [57]

With respect to this act, US Congressmember Jan Schakowsky tried to introduce an amendment prohibiting the use of military contract workers, asserting “reports that DynCorp employees have been implicated in drug trafficking, the very thing they are paid to help prevent, only strengthens my conviction that outsourcing is the wrong policy.” [58]

Also in 2000, Michael Demons, a paramedic belonging to a DynCorp team operating at the Tres Esquinas military base in Caquetá (southern Colombia) died from heart attack at a hospital in Florencia, capital of this department: “tests conducted by medical examiners demonstrated that the cause of death of the US citizen had been an overdose of cocaine.” [59] Although a preliminary investigation was begun, the case file mysteriously disappeared from the archives at the Office of the Attorney General.

In 2002, the 25-year-old DynCorp employee Alexander Wakefield Ross Cáceres, who operated at an anti-narcotics base in the department of Putumayo, died from hitting his head on the moving propeller of an OV-10 aerial spraying aircraft. The pilot’s mother, Elena Cáceres, assured that he was murdered: “He did not have to go anywhere near the planes, since he worked as geographic computation technician and spent his time in front of machines quite distinct to that of aircraft. Additionally, reports say he died in the hospital at Mocoa, when in reality the blow caused his immediate death on the airstrip. […] This was no accident, as claimed by DynCorp. He knew something related to drugs and the company’s pilots. People close to the company say that over the last two years other mysterious deaths of foreigners have also occurred.” [60]

These acts, yet to be clarified, demonstrate the irregularities surrounding the actions of the contract workers in Colombia as well as their links to activities related to drug trafficking.

In October 2004, it was revealed that contract workers operating in Tolemaida distributed a video in which they could be observed sexually violating underage girls from the town of Melgar. This video was even sold on the main streets of Bogotá. [61] Nonetheless, the Lawyers’ Collective has not learned of any criminal investigation undertaken in relation to these acts involving minors. According to follow-up work carried out by the Lawyers’ Collective through interviewing persons from this community, it was discovered that one of the minors involved in the videos committed suicide some time after the publication of the videos.

In march 2005, five US military members, belonging to the Armed Forces Antinarcotics Training Center, were detained for transporting 16 kilos of cocaine in a US military aircraft from the base at Apiay (Meta) to Texas, as reported by the Bogotá-based newspaper El Tiempo in an editorial titled “Narcosoldiers.”

Later, according to the same newspaper, a Colombian former soldier, whose last name was Jiménez, was implicated in the investigation. Furthermore, it was stated he worked with an enterprise contracted by Plan Colombia and operated from the base at Larandia and with the navy in Tumaco (Nariño). It was also asserted, “he could be fundamental piece to uncovering the connections of the detained US military members”, since “he was one of the first persons to connect the contract worker foreign enterprise with the drug dealers with the aim to conceal the alkaloid among military canisters.” [62]

Although the implicated persons are US soldiers, relations with the mafia were carried out by a contract worker agency. (And DynCorp was the only contract worker agency operating in the place of the acts.)

In May 2005, the US citizens Alan Norman Tanquary and José Hernández, who confirmed they were members of the US Army’s Special Forces 7th Group as well as shooting-drill instructors at the Army’s National Training Center in Tolemaida (which also has strong presence of private contract workers), were arrested in the act of trafficking more than 30,000 projectiles to paramilitary groups in the area of Carmen de Apicalá, which is on the highway connecting the departments of Tolima and Cundinamarca.

No Colombian or US authority issued a pronouncement clarifying the episode, the persons most involved in the acts, or its operation status regarding Plan Colombia antinarcotics activities. In this respect, it is not even known if the US citizens really belonged to the US Army.“

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dolfi says on Jul 7, 2009, 04:01:

Very revealing information about the activities of US military and private mercenary companies hired by the US government can be found here:

www.prensarural.org/spip/IMG/doc/dyncorp_acus_eng.doc

spanish version:

www.prensarural.org/spip/IMG/doc/dyncorp_acus_esp.doc

One of the main players in the game is DynCorp, http://www.dyn-intl.com/

“Protecting What Really Matters - Supporting U.S. interests worldwide”

This company is a main partner in Plan Colombia and describes it´s activities as follows:

“[DynCorp] has a social purpose of providing support services for bilateral anti-narcotics programs between the US and Colombian governments. In order to achieve this, the branch acquires, possesses, taxes, and deeds all types of moveable and real property; transfers, accepts, negotiates, discounts, etc., all types of negotiable instruments and other civil and commercial documents necessary or suitable for achieving its objectives; participates either as a shareholder or founder, in other companies; receives cash loans, with or without real or personal guarantees; and in general carries out all types of acts or contracts directly related with this company’s principal social purpose in Colombia.”

As intended for the upcoming American bases in Colombia, DynCorp people are immune from any control by Colombian authorities (“This arrangement means that no Colombian government agency may exercise any control or oversight of the bi-national programs undertaken by mercenary transnational security enterprises, which are legalized through these agreements. Colombian agencies do not even have information concerning the number of mercenaries in the country. “)
Consequently, Dyncorp employees made use of these liberties as they pleased:

“The conventional immunity for the US mission in Colombia has allowed members of this enterprise to commit several crimes in Colombia, principally relating to drug trafficking. For instance, in May 2000, recently after Plan Colombia was implemented, several small bottles containing heroin were detected at the El Dorado airport in Bogotá in which “the enterprise DynCorp appeared as the sender of a package with the final destination of the Patrick Air Base in Florida.” [55]

Once the heroin was detected at the airport, the Colombian police officer conducting the initial investigation for these acts was immediately removed from his post (even though he held the rank of general) by order of the Narcotics Affairs Section of the US Embassy in Bogotá, [56] which demonstrates the immense power held by this office to intervene with Colombian government authorities.

When the Canadian Newspaper “The Nation” uncovered this scandal, Janet Wineriter, spokesperson for DynCorp, replied that said liquid did not contain heroin: “They were simply oil samples that should be sent by DynCorp technicians on a periodic basis, and that the tests had been done with apparently faulty equipment that had produced an incorrect reading.” [57]

With respect to this act, US Congressmember Jan Schakowsky tried to introduce an amendment prohibiting the use of military contract workers, asserting “reports that DynCorp employees have been implicated in drug trafficking, the very thing they are paid to help prevent, only strengthens my conviction that outsourcing is the wrong policy.” [58]

Also in 2000, Michael Demons, a paramedic belonging to a DynCorp team operating at the Tres Esquinas military base in Caquetá (southern Colombia) died from heart attack at a hospital in Florencia, capital of this department: “tests conducted by medical examiners demonstrated that the cause of death of the US citizen had been an overdose of cocaine.” [59] Although a preliminary investigation was begun, the case file mysteriously disappeared from the archives at the Office of the Attorney General.

In 2002, the 25-year-old DynCorp employee Alexander Wakefield Ross Cáceres, who operated at an anti-narcotics base in the department of Putumayo, died from hitting his head on the moving propeller of an OV-10 aerial spraying aircraft. The pilot’s mother, Elena Cáceres, assured that he was murdered: “He did not have to go anywhere near the planes, since he worked as geographic computation technician and spent his time in front of machines quite distinct to that of aircraft. Additionally, reports say he died in the hospital at Mocoa, when in reality the blow caused his immediate death on the airstrip. […] This was no accident, as claimed by DynCorp. He knew something related to drugs and the company’s pilots. People close to the company say that over the last two years other mysterious deaths of foreigners have also occurred.” [60]

These acts, yet to be clarified, demonstrate the irregularities surrounding the actions of the contract workers in Colombia as well as their links to activities related to drug trafficking.

In October 2004, it was revealed that contract workers operating in Tolemaida distributed a video in which they could be observed sexually violating underage girls from the town of Melgar. This video was even sold on the main streets of Bogotá. [61] Nonetheless, the Lawyers’ Collective has not learned of any criminal investigation undertaken in relation to these acts involving minors. According to follow-up work carried out by the Lawyers’ Collective through interviewing persons from this community, it was discovered that one of the minors involved in the videos committed suicide some time after the publication of the videos.

In march 2005, five US military members, belonging to the Armed Forces Antinarcotics Training Center, were detained for transporting 16 kilos of cocaine in a US military aircraft from the base at Apiay (Meta) to Texas, as reported by the Bogotá-based newspaper El Tiempo in an editorial titled “Narcosoldiers.”

Later, according to the same newspaper, a Colombian former soldier, whose last name was Jiménez, was implicated in the investigation. Furthermore, it was stated he worked with an enterprise contracted by Plan Colombia and operated from the base at Larandia and with the navy in Tumaco (Nariño). It was also asserted, “he could be fundamental piece to uncovering the connections of the detained US military members”, since “he was one of the first persons to connect the contract worker foreign enterprise with the drug dealers with the aim to conceal the alkaloid among military canisters.” [62]

Although the implicated persons are US soldiers, relations with the mafia were carried out by a contract worker agency. (And DynCorp was the only contract worker agency operating in the place of the acts.)

In May 2005, the US citizens Alan Norman Tanquary and José Hernández, who confirmed they were members of the US Army’s Special Forces 7th Group as well as shooting-drill instructors at the Army’s National Training Center in Tolemaida (which also has strong presence of private contract workers), were arrested in the act of trafficking more than 30,000 projectiles to paramilitary groups in the area of Carmen de Apicalá, which is on the highway connecting the departments of Tolima and Cundinamarca.

No Colombian or US authority issued a pronouncement clarifying the episode, the persons most involved in the acts, or its operation status regarding Plan Colombia antinarcotics activities. In this respect, it is not even known if the US citizens really belonged to the US Army.“

0 funny, 1 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 7, 2009, 19:47:

Dolfi says on Jul 8, 2009, 06:22:

The problem ist that the current colombian government is inviting the USA to open military bases on colombian territory, granting US military and civilian personal immunity from colombian law. Disregarding the experiences with this kined of people in the past, when they have been consuming smuggling drugs and committing crimes angainst colombian citizens.

This is not what one expects from a government, which should protect it´s own peoples interests in the first place.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 8, 2009, 06:52: