TORN BETWEEN TWO COUNTRIES

mrgizmo says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:18:

Being born in Colombia I always carry the country in my heart.
Although I only lived there 16 years (I'm over 50 now) I have considered it my country.
God protect those who criticized Colombia and its people in front of me because I'd get back to them like an angry bear defending it with all my power.
I defended its culture, the economy, the president, the sports (mainly soccer), the cities, the climate, the natural resources and last but not least, the food.
I always encountered ignorant fools who put Colombia down based on Hollywood movies and the nightly news. I've lost track of how many times I tried to educate those people about the beautiful things Colombia has to offer.
I recently came back from a three plus vacation there. I loved it. The only problem was that I found myself defending the states, the culture, the economy, the sports, the weather, and yes, sometimes the president. I encountered people who'd say: "Los gringos son unos menzos'' (gringos are dumb) WHAT? Are you kidding me? You really believe gringos are dumb? What? what do you mean gringos have no sense of humor, blah, blah, blah. I ended up getting in friendly arguments about the states and I was like a grizzly defending its cubs.
Then I realized, I'm torn between the two countries, I accept them both for what they are and I'm grateful to both of them. I love them both. Some people even told me, "Oh, you're not Colombian anymore, you're a gringo.'' Not trying to offend me to trying to make me realize that I'm not one of them anymore.
Am I the only one who feels this way?

Behind every successful man, there's a nagging woman

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webmanco says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:23:

My rule of thumb is,

if you don´t have anythig good to say about one person (country) don´t say nothing at all.

Now one thing is to comment another is to get it as a job to put down persons or countries.

By reading PBH I know you are not alone Mrgizmo

We got here Juan Valdez wannabes and at the same time same persons are Rambo wannabes.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Simon says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:47:

"Oh, you're not Colombian anymore, you're a gringo.''

Those who would say that to you are nothing but jealous fools!

Puros tercermundistas envidiosos de mierda!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Simon says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:49:

"We got here Juan Valdez wannabes and at the same time same person are Rambo wannabes."

We also have a 'Swiss wanna be' with a certain 'Mr. Neutral' who can't pick a side between a democratically elected government and evil narcoterrorists.

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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webmanco says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:55:

HERE'S SIMON!!!!
who can't pick a side between a democratically elected government and evil narcoterrorists

That is pretty hard to decide when the latest (narcoterrorists) helped the supposed democratically elected government, Lease Paramilitares.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Simon says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:57:

I didn't know that the seven million Colombians who came out in full force to vote in the last presidential elections were all paramilitaries.

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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webmanco says on Aug 7, 2008, 16:59:

There are many things you don´t know, learn some history.

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/this-day-in-history-news-item/

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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dwmte7 says on Aug 7, 2008, 17:09:

well, mr gizmo....it's just the reverse for me...and i'm considerably older. i came to colombia near 20 years ago for the election of gaviria...he studied in my hometown in california, fresno. i came to bogota for the enauguration. had to see medellin, as i had heard about it for years. to me, bogota was a bit like any big city, cold and alien. clearly not my style. but when i landed in medallo....it was like heaven, even with all the narco terrorism in full force and meyhem and chaos, everywhere, 24/7. i just fell in love with the place and, basically, never left.

i know, that i'll spend my dying days in colombia. that doesn't mean i've turned away from my birth right; on the contrary. it's just that i found something that brings the life of my youth back to me. we were farmers and now, farming in california is giant agribusiness and truly alien. in colombia, i found the agriculture of my youth. personal, involved and a part of one's soul.

so, i, too, am torn between to lovers. home, and home.

patriarch

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Lisa Zee says on Aug 7, 2008, 20:02:

mrgizmo: I hear you! I do the same thing. Also when I am here I miss so many things from Colombia and when I am there I miss things from here. I always say, we leave Colombia when we are young and we will be "Despatraidos"

La vida sera' contigo tan justa como lo eres con los dema's.

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Dolfi says on Aug 8, 2008, 00:37:

There are people on this board who call a democratically elected president (Chavez) a dictator.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2008, 01:57:

Mrgizmo, I believe the feeling of being torn between two countries is actually fairly common among long¨time immigrants. I have the same type of situation having lived outside my country of birth all my adult life.

I used the very same expression many years ago when I took the decision to return to Europe. ("I'm torn between these two different worlds, like in an eternal limbo with no clear solution in sight. I need to become whole again, feel the peace of a person who knows his/her place on this planet: here I will stay and this is the land I will give my love and devotion above others. Here I will build my home and raise my children and listen to the sound of my grandchildren's feet on the carpeted corridors of my home." I wrote a letter to my sister saying something like that).

Now, years later I've come to realize that for me there will never be such thing, I will always have this multiple identity as part of myself. I love all my countries, the one I was born in, the ones that have given me room and opportunity to live a productive life and whose culture, language and mores I have incorporated in my personal identity. I don't see it as a problem any longer but rather as a richness.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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webmanco says on Aug 8, 2008, 06:09:

who wrote (not wrotte) this comment !!

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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billyb says on Aug 8, 2008, 06:25:

But Morph, I think it works out that when you are a young and vulnerable Colombian and need housing and food, you go to the US, but when you are an old and vulnerable gringo and need cheap food and housing, (and maybe some female companionship) then you go to Colombia. It might be a symbiotic relationship.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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mrgizmo says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:24:

morphus I AM with the country that supposedly fed me and clothed me BUT with the exception that I worked for it. I have been working since (and paying my due share of taxes) 1966, never once have I collected unemployment EVER. NEVER got a freeby from the government. I know it's there but it's there for the needy not for me to abuse the system. I don't see Colombia like the stepfather, sorry. I owe Colombia my roots, my culture, my education (moral and good values) yes, that came from my familty but my family was raised in Colombia.
On my recent trip I went to my old neighborhood and walked the streets saw the kids playing soccer and other street games, the neighborhood hasn't changed much it's a modest, very modest neighborhood but it was full of good people.
It was like going back to the past and I loved it.
Desideria, and many of you who've been out of your native countries share the same feeling, I know it, it's human nature. We all have good and bad memories. Sometimes we belong to both countries and sometimes we belong to neither one of them.

Behind every successful man, there's a nagging woman

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Lisa Zee says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:12:

Not all Colombians migrate to the USA for necessity. I came to visit my brother when I was very young, I had a lot of fun with my brother and wife, traveling all over the USA. I went back to Colombia to finish up high school, then came once more to visit, this time I met one of my brother`s neighbor, who became my husband, we had a child later....The rest is history....

La vida sera' contigo tan justa como lo eres con los dema's.

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poco says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:28:

Quote: How many gringos have been housed and fed in Colombia? NONE!
==============
Good point.

I've started asking about foreigners living in Colombia,, full time and it seems quite a few are in Medellin. Many are buying fincas.

I've also heard there are very few foreign married couples moving to Medellin full time. Actually,, what I heard was none,, but seems most are either single or have married a Colombian.

So,, are any foreign retired folks (husband and wife) planning on making Colombia their retirement home ? Are they selling out in a foreign country and investing in a home ?

I'd say almost NO ONE (ie: half a percent of foreign residents?) fits this profile anywhere in Colombia.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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juli says on Aug 8, 2008, 16:46:

Mr Gizmo. I grew up snd lived in both. From as far back as I can remember my uncle who lived in the US was always called the gringo by the whole family. He'd been in the US for about 20 years at that time. He told us how he was always defending Colombia when he was in the US and when he was home he was always defending the US. I wasn't sure what he meant but I always remembered that. After being in the US me for a few years I found myself defending Colombia. And when we returned to Colombia I found myself defending the US. I guess this is normal.

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dwmte7 says on Aug 9, 2008, 06:55:

because of my age, i choose full time in colombia, leaving family and home turf behind. even when this comes with great reduction in my desposable income. why? it's not easy to say unless you've lived in colombia with rural colombians. they're just easy to be with, the cost of living is obviously much less and the pace is in keeping with that of my inner clock. as the years pass, i move, think, feel, etc, slower. so being in the finca in colombia is like being in the us of my youth...rural agricultural community.

patriarch

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 9, 2008, 07:12:

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion on others. I don't care if Colombians say Germans are all Nazis or Spaniards all vulgar and racist. Then again I don't care if Europeans say Colombians are all drug dealers and whores. Clearly whoever makes this kind of generalization is not worth the time or effort. All countries have their positive and negative bits, I am not more or less grateful towards any country, I am happy where I am now and the moment I stop enjoying I'll just pack and leave... Getting in fights over who's country is better or worse is futile. I am not one to defend or attack, I don't care.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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dwmte7 says on Aug 9, 2008, 07:44:

cereal killers just don't care......jeje

patriarch

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 9, 2008, 07:59:

Well Douglas, what is the point? If I knew all 44 million colombians, 82 million Germans and 40 million Spaniards then MAYBE I would defend the nation I believe to be "the best'. The concept of nation is a social construct so whenever I hear "_______ (insert nationality) blood" I cannot help but chuckle, as I am pretty sure the blood in country A is pretty much the same as that in country B, given that they belong to the same ethnic group (for example venezuela, colombia, peru and ecuador).... Nationality the way I see it is more akin to learned behaviour.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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romy says on Aug 9, 2008, 08:21:

nationalities exist for taxing purposes, no?

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juli says on Aug 9, 2008, 08:41:

When people hear I am Colombian and make references to drugs I feel the need educate them. You could call it defending. If someone said X place is a hellhole I would educate/defend if I knew it to be otherwise and if it were important. There are a lot of people who have misconceptions about a great many things. If one of them is Colombia I feel qualified and compelled to dispell any myths. That is why I would bother and a good enough point for me. If someone had a misonception about Disneyland, like Mr. Killer I would not bother either. We all choose our own battles.

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charlysito71 says on Aug 9, 2008, 18:47:

never spoken better juli. when we are in the us i am always on the defensive with some dumb---- whom has never been out of the county telling me about all the problems with colombia. but the media has to carry much of the blame, as they never have anything good to report on my adopted country.

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dwmte7 says on Aug 10, 2008, 05:36:

common, charly.....never?

patriarch

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dwmte7 says on Aug 11, 2008, 06:08:

jack, my elders used to say to us, before you criticize someone, sit down and eat a bucket of salt with them.

patriarch

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 11, 2008, 06:34:

I don't understand that phrase. If you ate a bucket of salt, you'd be dead.

The one I always hear is "before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes (or moccasins)."

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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webmanco says on Aug 11, 2008, 06:42:

Es mas fácil mirar la paja en el ojo ajeno y no la viga que hay en el nuestro

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Lisa Zee says on Aug 11, 2008, 09:34:

AMEN!

La vida sera' contigo tan justa como lo eres con los dema's.

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dwmte7 says on Aug 11, 2008, 13:53:

i asked my grandpa about that tinto...he said it's a lot easier to walk a mile in someone's (anyone's) shoes than to eat a bucket of salt with em.

patriarch

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webmanco says on Aug 12, 2008, 15:13:

Explain Jack

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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webmanco says on Aug 14, 2008, 08:04:

There goes the magic word

Colombia

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Monpirri says on Aug 14, 2008, 10:10:

Webmanco, don't play dumb, this applies to you ""Es mas fácil mirar la paja en el ojo ajeno y no la viga que hay en el nuestro"
Right now I'm too busy to look up all your stuff here but please don't try to hide your previous comments or behavior.

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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webmanco says on Aug 14, 2008, 11:35:

Elaborate

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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romy says on Aug 14, 2008, 11:43:

Monpirri- what are you busy with?

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webmanco says on Aug 14, 2008, 14:25:

the dude must be busy cooking sancocho, or better yet enchilada :-)

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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romy says on Aug 14, 2008, 14:45:

Monpirri was eating a taco I thought... not even authentic though wannabe Taco Bell ahahaha
All this talk about food is making me hungry though... darn you web I don't get to go home for another hour...

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