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TomTom you´ll like this one...

I have a paisa friend who now lives in Toronto with her husband. Her husband is sucessful and brought around CAD$100k to invest which is not a lot for him. They took the don´t put your eggs in one basket approach and they bought a bunch of businesses, many of them bars on the 33 in Medellin. Unfortunately, the problem of having many businesses in Medellin is you cannot keep an eye on everything all the time and, shocker, the employees stole from them and all the businesses were losing money. He got tired of this quick and returned to Canada and left his wife to sell what she could. Of course she made a huge mistake and sub-rented one of the bars to a "friend" and the friend screwed her and never payed the rent. After not paying the $800.000/mo. rent on the bar for 6 months, I went there with her older sister and we threw the friend out who has not, and you know, will not ever pay back what she owes to my friend. (to me, this is what the bala is for) The rental agency turned to the collection agency (that all has to do with the co-signer agency behind the rental agency forms that all the foreigners have problems getting approved for) for the money because unfortunately, the rental contract was in my friend´s husbands name and they never changed ot to the freind. Well, her husband wanted to just pay the balance, interest and all now totalling over 9 millones and get it all over with. So they asked me if they can wire the money to my account. I said sure and the transfer to my account went smooth and with a current camara commercio Bancolombia transferred to colombian pesos and even quickly accepted the reason as to why the transfer of "this gentleman is paying back a debt to the company". I got a "cheque de gerencia" in the name of the collection agency which is a certified check. This is where the typical colombian BS starts. I went to the collection agency and first thing they did wrong was snatch the check out of my hands and ran off to god knows where in the office without saying to me what they are doing. I told them that was rude and please that I go where the check goes. They were irked and said "sir you need to have more understanding that this account has already been sent to the attorneys to sue for the balance due" I laughed and said, good luck because you´ll never be able to serve him because he´s in Canada. They were pissed at that answer. Now I like the American way of a business deal that all is done at one place, at one time, such as a closing of a house. Well I wanted "paz y salvo" for my friends which is a Colombian legal term of the collection agency and the rental agency accept this payment and have no more recourse to sue them for debts on this property. It´s like when in a contract dispute, you setlle and you usually sign something that gives up your right to sue anymore for any outstanding amount past or future and the deal is done forever. Mind you, I gave them a certified check. They gave me a receipt but they wouldn´t give me the Paz y Salvo because the system wouldn´t update until 5pm and I should come tommorrow and in her words "definitely will recieve it". I was irked and I said, oh that´s great, you have the money and you won´t give the Paz y Salvo. What´s to stop you from saying my friends owe MORE money tomorrow?? I said, if I went to a car dealer and paid in full with a certified check, I deserve the car and the keys at that moment, not tommorrow. The representative of the collection agency was steamed and with a red face she shouted "we are very serious here!!!". To wit, I said "tommorrow we´ll find out" and I left. So 10am the following morning I return. I wait 20 minutes and finally the secretary alerted me that the system is down and I should come back later. I asked for a manager and I told him 1) he should be able to give the paz y salvo at the time of payment and 2) you need a backup plan if the system is down. A word doc with their letterhead saying paz y salvo with the details of my friend´s account and their stamp would have been fine for me. He said there was nothing they could do. I alerted him about his employee telling me "your company is serious and definitelty would have it the next time I came" so I asked him for the sake of good business to messenger it over to my business and he reluctantly agreed and I was told I´ll have ot Tuesday (monday´s a holiday). I told him, if I don´t get it tuesday, I´ll make a denuncia at the camara commercio. I couldn´t care less that the collection agency wasn´t happy with me.

By spigrimace on Nov 12, 2007, 08:21 in Friendly Talkzone.

Frank Rizzo says on Nov 12, 2007, 09:00:

uugggg.....again they invented Murphy's law in Colombia. I'm all too familiar with the way business is done there......good luck bra....

I've been round and round with building departmnts there, DIAN, everyone....in the end you gotta know someone....once you do, things can get done very fast with a huge apology...lol

Colombia will have a very hard time lifting itself up if there is not a huge change in how business is conducted. For anyone in business in the US, it's almost paralyzing to try to get anything done there.

Waterdawg says on Nov 12, 2007, 09:08:

This all to typical here in Latin America and why they will never be able to compete with first world economy's . Shoot them selves in the foot every time ! ... I have friends ( Latinos ) in the leather Biz over in Ecuador ; man you should here them go on and on about what they have to deal with in their own Country ..

Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 12, 2007, 09:31:

A few observations after reading the story above and the earlier one about EPM:

A. basic business processes aren't in place or aren't followed
B. software vendors and consultants ought to be able to make a fortune if the existing systems are decrepit/always down
C. because of A and B, making excuses is a national sport

morphus says on Nov 12, 2007, 10:06:

Doing business in Colombia? HAAAAAAAAA! You have to be crazy. I have enough trouble getting them to give me change at the store for a 20K peso bill.

spigrimace says on Nov 12, 2007, 12:05:

Morphus, a business only has to give gas station attendants and/or bus administration office workers free coca-colas and/or hamburguers and all the change you need for your business is for the asking :-)

morphus says on Nov 12, 2007, 14:02:

I could'nt even buy a Coca Cola at the store because the guy at the counter could'nt give me change for a 20K bill. I find it better to do one big shopping at the big stores like Exito.

TonyMattei says on Nov 12, 2007, 16:00:

so give them a 10k peso bill......hello ........mathamatian

Lowell says on Nov 12, 2007, 16:06:

One store owner got pissed for having to make change for a coke. He had no choice, I opened it before I passed him a 20. I had change in my pocket, but had been treated rudely before by him. Fair play I say.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

tomtom33 says on Nov 12, 2007, 17:26:

Damn glad that I am a retired bum. However, the old entrepreneur in me is saying that there is a lot of money to be made doing things right. Ah fuck it. I think I'll just get laid.

john_stark says on Nov 12, 2007, 19:12:

The only people who can deal with this crap on a regular basis are Colombians who are used to it and know how to play the game. Everyone else says to hell with it. Why a gringo would mess with this country is a mystery to me. Oh yeah, now I remember, chucha!!!!!

CaptainHowdy says on Nov 12, 2007, 19:57:

mathamatian!!!!! Is that a dalmation that does math!!???? LOL...

Teaching preteens the things they need to know!

TonyMattei says on Nov 13, 2007, 04:33:

ummm english is the down the hall.......BTW who buys business and does not over see them...over course they steal they make 10 dollars a day....its a borderline 3rd world country.....when i open my business i will open one business and have it multi tasking and i will be there for the first 6 months to creat order and a system..

morphus says on Nov 13, 2007, 04:45:

"so give them a 10k peso bill"

I just came from the ATM with only 20K bills....HELLO

morphus says on Nov 13, 2007, 04:47:

They do it a lot at the internet cafes. I'm giving them business and they act like i'm bothering them because they have to make change.

vicshere says on Nov 13, 2007, 04:48:

lets see a gambling business man who can't spell is going to put Colombian business in its place woohoo

listo

nine inch nails says on Nov 13, 2007, 08:13:

I try to never let them see my small change if I don't want to use it. They like to snatch the small bills out of your hand to help you..........

And if they don't want to make reasonable change I'm off to the next tienda.

get down, get down

Rob77 says on Nov 13, 2007, 09:19:

Doing business in another country is a matter of learning the customs and adapting to them. People who have been in Colombia long enough know that getting things done takes knowing the right people and keeping them happy. As long as you keep the wheels of progress well greased, things happen for you. You can not focus on whether it is the right way to do things or whether the system in other countries works better. You look for the path of least resistance to success.

That said, I think it's naive to try owning multiple businesses here without either lots of experience in this country, or partnering up with trusted people with experience, to help run them.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

slguy says on Nov 13, 2007, 14:34:

R77 - you're correct, of course. It's pretty much idiocy to invest heaily ANYWHERE unless you've lived there several years, or have a trusted local partner. This isn't peculiar to Colombia - it's true anywhere.

I'm still licking my wounds from learning this lesson some years ago....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

Robert Jorge says on Nov 13, 2007, 21:49:

As usual, I agree with Rob77 and slguy.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy