To those who are so critical of Kevin and Cholula

vladimiro says on Jun 12, 2004, 08:39:

Volunteers These types of volunteers are often providing basic education and health care to Colombians that deperately need it. I was impressed with one organization, I think its called Witness For Peace, in which foriegners volunteer to accompany - completely unarmed - judges, attorneys, and witnesses. They believe the judges are less likely to be assasinated because of the unwanted international attention that a death of a foriegner would bring. They use nothing but their bodies to protect Colombia's legal system - and they are not even Colombian.

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Gator says on Jun 12, 2004, 09:00:

Not That It Is Any of YOUR Business Not that I owe you a damn thing but because you asked.

1. We, the wife and I, are presently paying for a poor boy from Colombia to attend college in the USA. He is now a junior in the University of Florida's College of Engineering aero space program.

2. We support, and have for years, a small rural school south of
Jamundi, Money for supplies and clothing and books for the kids.

3. Needed medical care for one of our former worker's little girl.

That said, ShazCas, why don't you crawl back under whatever rock you came from?

No le hagas caso a ese tonto. Simpre que viene aquí, tenemos dificultades.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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stanmoonie says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:02:

If you really want to do something Shazcas Why do you not donate money to help train or feed people down in Colombia? Until the people can find a job you will find the people will keep fighting no matter what you or anyone else will do. How do you think rebels get new recuits to their cause...? no work no food what do you think they do. I love to read where people want to go down there and stop the fighting it is not going to happen so get over it they have been fighting forever...

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:02:

exactly.... what kevin and cholula are trying to do is none of your busines also, if all you have to offer is "crawl back under your rock.." then you should say nothing.

it's commendable that you say you are doing something for people who need help for a better life...did you not read the do not disturb sign or did they ask for help?

you see, the really issue is...does it really matter?

these people are doing something in their own way, maybe it's not your way, but the intention, i believe is honorable. besides, it goes back to my question...

did these people ask for help? or was it offered? and, does it really matter?

where do you get this "crawl back under whatever rock you came from"
what's wrong you? don't you have any sense of decency?

where i come from, men don't behave this way...men act honorable...

lastly, do you write it off on your taxes?

be consistent, don't...

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:07:

DO NOT DISTURB....stanmoonie ah, i see....

just let them kill each other...

mmmm, so what you are saying is...

that you have no opinion....

do nothing...don't care

do not disturb...

that would be good if they just kept to themselves, but you see they don't....

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stanmoonie says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:12:

junior not at all.... Junior

once again you need to read post before you reply.... unless you are willing to invest and provide jobs it does not matter how many people you use as a human shield you will not fix the problem. So if you want to give your money away give it to someone who can use it like a family that wants to eat... wants their children to grow up and be something.... you bleeding hearts really kill me lets do something but not take care of the real problem....

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Sam Salmon says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:19:

Some of my charitable contributions go to support an Orphanage in Colombia-I hope you enjoy your stay under that rock!
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!


' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:20:

killing whom.... "your bleeding heart really kills me..."

mixed metaphor....

if my heart is bleeding it would logically be killing me not you...

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:21:

behave like a man... sam...why don't you learn to behave like a man...

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:30:

tinto... i am raising/helping out a young man left homeless and without any relatives....

i am just about to get him into a technical school for trades...

i do this out of my own pocket...

i believe in god, i believe in doing something because it's the right thing to do....

it's my personal belief...

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vladimiro says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:30:

Volunteering and Revenge Working in US and sending money to Colombia does seem to be more effective than going to Colombia and volunteering, and maybe there is some self interest, vanity, or adventure seeking involved with those that volunteer.

By the way, according to Semana magazine the cause of the conflict in Colombia is not poverty or the personal ambitions of the rebel and para leaders. After extensive interviews with FARC and PARA members Semana found that the primary motive of the combatants was revenge for crimes committed against their family or village. The war is fueling itself.

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:37:

volunteering... human contact...

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stanmoonie says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:42:

junior I know what we need to do..... We all need to pack our bags fly first class to Colombia... stay in a very high priced hotel and everyday go out and tell those poor people that " hey you do not need to fight, go find a job picking coffee beans so I can drink cheap coffee and don't worry you'll figure a way to feed your family". We need more of people like you junior....

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 10:49:

your words.... not mine...

junior...i love colombia

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stanmoonie says on Jun 12, 2004, 11:16:

junior it is no different here... Junior

For some reason.. the people here in the United States think it is our god given right to go world wide telling everyone what they should do. It is very funny we cannot look in our own backyard and take care of our own problems. Do you honestly think anyone here wants to keep Colombia the way it is now? Just so we have a cheap place to live? You really need to wake up and smell that very cheap coffee you are buying.

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junior says on Jun 12, 2004, 12:23:

stanmoonie... obviously, you did not understand what i wrote...

it seems to me that certain people would like nothing done...

the statement i made was a general statement, not my beliefs...

i believe that the government and the people of colombia want to interact with the world...in many ways...most importantly to improve the quality of life in all its aspects....that's what the uribe government it doing...and he has a high rating with the colombian people...

the colombian people want united states help, again, i have a friend in colombia who is a police officer in the anti-sequester unit of bogota...he told me that he recieved his training in louisiana...the united states...he speaks highly of the training he recieved and also of the united states... this does not support your statement that we as americans attempt to impose ourselves on others, this is an example, and i might add just one of many, where colombians sought the help of the united states for the betterment of the colombian society...

you do not respect your own country....it's not perfect, but it's our country...

colombia is far from perfect, so why do you seem to imply that...

the fact remains, that the colombian people have more to fear from colombians than the united states....i don't see how this is bashing like GaryVI implies...is it not the truth? unfortunately, if only perfect situations had a right to opinions then nothing should be said...an observation does not logically imply superiority as GaryVI so illogically states...GaryVI flails aways making rash conclusions in emotional ranting only because he has a posse, so he doesn't need evidence just insults...

colombia effects our lives not only here in the united states but also in europe because of cocaine and heroin and other drugs...this due to a small percentage of the population not representative of the colombian people themselves who are good people...

that's the crux of the matter within the group "los indicados" that everything you don't agree with you file it under "trying to tell people what to do" oversimplification of what is actually taking place and it allows "los indicados" to take the high moral ground, to fight the good fight...

someone said that through dialogue true change can occur...exactly

honorable motives do exist...."los indicados" are influenced by transference of their experiences...that doesn't allow them to understand human behavior beyond their own....

mother teresa was a good example of honorable motives...

no i'm not comparing myself to mother teresa, but she is someone that i think about alot, and how she lived her life...and i ask myself...how can i live my life in some small way....like her...

"to do good things with great love..."

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cholula says on Jun 12, 2004, 14:32:

First of all, I would like to offer my sincere apologies for any animosity that was created by my original post. It was never my intention to provoke further hostility. Rather, I simply wanted to encourage dialogue as to why it is that we sometimes believe that it is okay to be careless with the feelings of other people.

Secondly, I think it's important to recognize that, in spite of the diversity of opinion that is expressed here, there is some common ground. We all can probably agree that this is a multi-faceted problem with a number of different historical, political and economic causes. When we consider this, it seems reasonable that any potential solutions must also be multi-faceted and stem from a variety of different sources. Therefore, we should do what we can in a way that best suits our individual circumstances and values.

I make no claims to be an expert on any of these subjects. I am simply a concerned global citizen who hopes to learn more and apply the understanding and insight that I will gain from this experience to other aspects of my life. I am under no illusion that I can change the world or change the minds of other people. I am much too pragmatic and realistic to entertain these types of delusions. (After all, my professional background is in international business, NOT bleeding heart liberalism.)

Someone mentioned that our motivations lie in vanity or self-interest. While I don't agree with the vanity aspect of this assertion, I do believe that everything we do in life involves a certain degree of self-interest. However, it is important to note that self-interest and selfishness are not the same thing. It is entirely possible to serve our own interests and the interests of others at the same time. I'm not sure why it is that people so often assume that the two are mutually exclusive. Perhaps they don't have an accurate understanding of human nature and our underlying motivations.

We have a choice to either look for the best in people or to assume the worst. We also must realize that how we behave toward others on an individual level will be reflected by how we behave toward each other on a global level.

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Hunter says on Jun 13, 2004, 11:19:

I have long believed CHARITY is mostly a waste of time and giving money to third world/developing Countries does not help them, actually the opposite it helps cause corruption.

I for one have never or will never give to a charity.

But there are many ways of helping Colombia and other countries if Kevin and Cholula wish to to the above, so be it. If Gator wishes to sponser a kid so be it, each to his own.

Personally I help to set up people in small business's in Colombia with my own money as their starting collateral. I look at the potential business on its merits, if I don't believe it will work they can forget it. If I believe it has a good possibility of working I will invest the money, but the business is put in my name/company name, a contract is drawn up that they pay down the loan and interest and eventualy (hopefully) the business will change hands.

Any interest that I make, goes back into the pot to help more people, at the mnoment I have helped/helping 7 people, they employ approx 100 Colombians.

Hunter

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ShazCas says on Jun 13, 2004, 12:23:

Wow, so many answers Guys, I did ask because I really wanted to know, and I’m really glad you are doing something to help the country. I think that any help is help, be it cash or time, it’s all good. I don’t see any reason to insult someone because they choose to help in a different way to you. Maybe because Kevin’s 21 he doesn’t really have much money, most young people can’t help with money, so they help in other ways. What angered me was the hostility of some of the replies to his simple question.

To Gator:
You said:

That said, ShazCas, why don't you crawl back under whatever rock you came from?

No le hagas caso a ese tonto. Simpre que viene aquí, tenemos dificultades.

Bueno, primero Gator, si cree que soy tonta díme no . Yo no sé por qué cree que yo siempre creo dificultades, pero bueno, si eso es lo que piensa, es lo que piensa. Lo que si me gusta hacer es estimular el debate, pero yo no insulto a nadie como usted acaba de hacer conmigo. No hay necesidad de insultarme, sólo le hice una pregunta. Yo no vivo debajo de una piedra, vivo en un sitio hermoso con mi esposo colombiano, soy una mujer inteligente, y no merezco insultas. Además, me parece muy bueno lo que hace para Colombia, pero ¿Por qué esas ganas de insultar a los demás?

To Stanmoonie:

You said:
If you really want to do something Shazcas.. Why do you not donate money to help train or feed people down in Colombia?

You don’t know who I am or what I do for Colombia, so please don’t assume. I give what I can, but I am young person who has problems covering her own expenses. I happen to think giving money and giving your own energy are both valid ways of helping. I just don’t think people should be hostile to those who choose a different way of helping from them.

To Sam:
You said:

Some of my charitable contributions go to support an Orphanage in Colombia-I hope you enjoy your stay under that rock!
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!

Again, I’m very glad you do something to help Colombia, but again, I don’t think insulting people makes you, or the others, look very mature. You should know better.

I'm glad my question stimulated some debate about this because I think it's an interesting one. I just hope the next time someone comes on this site to ask a simple question, there isn't so much animosity. That's not what this site is all about.

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ShazCas says on Jun 14, 2004, 01:18:

Mistake What I meant was:

Bueno, primero Gator, si cree que soy tonta díme no .
Don't know why that didn't paste on.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 14, 2004, 08:22:

I agree with Tinto on this one. And ShazCas, if you think that I can be married to a Colombian and have three Colombian stepchildren without doing anything for Colombia, you don't know much about Colombia or Colombian families.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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