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To openly talk good about Colombia or not???

I had commented on this site on another post about how I, an American had a great first trip to Medellin, Colombia and was looking forward to many more trips to Colombia. I also was talking about how I felt safe on my trip . After that post I was asked by another person on this fourm to post my same accounts on there site to spread the Good word on my trip to Medellin and ways to stay safe while there. I find myself reluctent to talk to other Americans about how good I found Colombia to be. It might bring More Americans. I like Colombia and one big reason is there are not to many Americans there. In my eyes a good thing NO! a very good thing. I'm told of the old days of Coasta Rica and how cheap it was for an American to visit or move there. Now i'm told that it's over run with Americans and it's getting very expensive. I dont want that to happen to Colombia. I want to be selfish with such a wonderful place. I want it to stay cheap. I was born and raised on a island (Key West, Florida) and growing up it was wonderful but now look at it. My dad's house he purchased for $24,000.00 is now worth $900,000.00 almost unchanged from when he purchased it. When the word gets out, paradice is lost. I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

By tampavallenato on Sep 2, 2007, 21:36 in Friendly Talkzone.

ana-ant-eater says on Sep 2, 2007, 21:44:

That is very true, but I think Colombia is somewhat different story since I think it needs more positive stories to get the drug war aspect out of peoples minds that havent been here to see the good side of the country.

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tampavallenato says on Sep 2, 2007, 21:52:

And there is my point. Dont tell them so they want come. Let them still think it is bad. We will know better. I dont want them to hear about the good side much less see it. You all mark my words 10 years from now Colombia will be over run with Gringos messing up the whole place the way Gringos do. And I dont think I am talking out of turn as I am a Gringo and I know and have seen first hand the way we ruin a place.

Ay Hombe!!!

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 2, 2007, 21:55:

My opinion: You could talk all you want and it wouldn't make a bit of difference because there are cruise ships, a tourism board, all those introduction services, foreign companies, a bunch of NGOs, a really big U.S. embassy staff, U.S. soldiers and contractors and probably tens of thousands of traveling Colombian-Americans or American-Colombians that came far before you did.

Colombia is not exactly an undiscovered gem in 2007 and you don't have to be especially brave to live or travel there. Maybe in the late 80s and much of the 90s but not now.

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tampavallenato says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:02:

Tinto , Very good point ! I'm just really not wanting to take part in changing Colombia no matter how small a part. Even tho talking on here does. Bad Me!!!!!!

Ay Hombe!!!

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scotty says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:03:

Tinto is right we can all do our part and be silent about Colombia but I fear its to late the word is out through several medias. Plus the country of Colombia wants the gringos tourist and investment and dollars. So no matter how much we try to keep it to ourselves its going to change.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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john_stark says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:10:

That's why we need several well-publicized FARC attacks. I don't know what's wrong with those guys but I am very disappointed in their efforts lately. They're really letting me down big time.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:11:

They're probably lined up from Puerto Asis to Cali to have a go with the Dutch girl.

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john_stark says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:16:

Well I know they have to show some solidarity (unity?) with other international revolutionaries but you'd think they'd have some time left over for a few old-fashioned bombings. What would Che Guevara think of them? Even a commie needs some poontang but come on gang, show Eileen what you can do (outside the bedroom!).

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goin_south says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:17:

Which one?

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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tampavallenato says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:23:

I know you guys talk alot about the exchange rate for your money but that will not mean much should floods of Gringos come. I just feel it's not if it's when!

Ay Hombe!!!

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RussianFred says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:38:

I do not think you have to worry about Colombia becoming the next Costa Rica. Colombia is well known for drugs, kidnappings and murders. This place is anti-american. Try to open a bank account or renting an apartment. The real estate prices are not cheap. Colombia is over priced and over rated. Try visiting the Dominican Republic or Belize, cheaper and safer. The best thing about Colombia is the women. Colombia may become the sex capital of the world.

Annual Drug Deaths: Tobacco: 395,000, Alcohol: 125,000, 'Legal' Drugs: 38,000, Illegal Drug Overdoses: 5,200, Marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?--Ralph Nader

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Robert Jorge says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:39:

Tampa, good post. I understand your reluctance to talk about how great Colombia is with people, for the reasons you stated. Actually, there are members of this site that actively sabotage legitimate posts, because they want to keep "their" discovery to themselves. (in reference to Colombia) I am torn between wanting to keep the secret, and wanting to share with anybody interested, how great Colombia is.

Anyway, I don't think we have to worry too much about Colombia turning into another Costa Rica, or even Panama or Guadalajara(sp?). Maybe places like Cartagena, San Andres, even Medellin over time will become over-run by gringos that ruin the whole experience and reason why we fell in love with Colombia. But I think that is a long way down the road. And I think places a little farther off the beaten track will never become gringo-land. (maybe I shouldn't say never) For example, when I lived in Villavicencio, I went to get a 30 day extension at the Villavo DAS. They had NEVER had another US citizen do this at that location ... and that is the capital city of the department of Meta. The reason I know I was the first, is that I asked the officer(s). I was curious and asked, because the guys had no idea what I was even talking about when I went there for the tourist stay extension. I also don't see a huge influx of gringos moving to Colombia. Colombia has too much of a bad reputation. People believe the movies they see, and do not understand the image of Colombia portrayed in a particular movie may be as real as the Wizard of Oz. And that is fine with me - though I cringe sometimes when I see some of the shit. I wouldn't worry too much about the word getting out on this website. We are quite unique when you put things in perspective. Members of this site are not your average vacationers from Europe or north America.

My parents are very well traveled. My dad wasn't even born in the US, and immigrated from Germany post WWII. They are also intelligent way beyond anything I have as far as IQ. (I was adopted and licked lead paint as a kid) But, will they travel to Colombia when my wife and I have a church wedding? Nope. Why? Because my parents who have been to the middle east, far east, Gary, Indiana, etc. are worried about getting kidnapped or killed when in Colombia. Facts and personal testimony from me doesn't matter. They are convinced in their own minds that it is too risky for them - which has to be a belief burned into their brains by continuous negative press, movies that inaccurately portray Colombia, and plain refusal to reason rationally with hard facts as evidence. My mom has had no qualms about going to Israel and Egypt! Why she thinks present day Colombia in most areas is riskier than that? - I am clueless.

So my point is: even if my parents are a little more cautious than the average American, if they are indicative of what most people have as a burned in perception of Colombia, we got nothing to worry about as far as Colombia being ruined by gringos.

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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goin_south says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:12:

D.R. does have some gorgeous ladies, as well Fred.
Man, what are you talkin,.... Belize? That's like.... for snorklin.
Tampvallenato... have you been to Colombia yet?
I guarantee... you probably will not see another gringo... maybe one or two in the airport. maybe one or two elsewhere.
Stop worrying.

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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tampavallenato says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:19:

Going south- I was in Medellin for 10 days back in march of this year. I only saw one gringo the whole trip. It was nice not to see more than that. As for being worried , I'm to tired to worry , I'm running the American rat race so I dont have to much energy to worry . I got to run this rat race for a few more years before I can run for the mountians. I'm just hoping it dont change to much between now and then.

Ay Hombe!!!

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tampavallenato says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:21:

Rubito- you much into the Vallenato music?

Ay Hombe!!!

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RussianFred says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:24:

I hope to make it to Brazil and Cuba before I get married. As far as low cost of living Polalado is not cheap. Two bedroom condos for $125,000, I can buy one almost anywhere in Latin America.

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RussianFred says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:31:

Most of Latin America has beautiful women with the exception of Mexico. This is just my opinion.

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goin_south says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:33:

...and so you would also probably ad: most of South America.
(oh! to be young again, with $, and no kids!)

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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RussianFred says on Sep 2, 2007, 23:39:

DR luxury living is cheaper than Colombia. high-end condos luxuriously ranging from $43,245 -139,500.

http://www.coralbayrealestate.com/search/show.php?id=593&p=10&page=1&s... DESC

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goin_south says on Sep 3, 2007, 00:00:

fred, that's quite a range.
And one would believe that all the baseball players in the Major Leagues would be driving prices up down there.... as those guys are dominating MLB

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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goin_south says on Sep 3, 2007, 05:37:

I kinda tend to think GIB might be right on that, .. that there is a thread of truth in what yer saying:

""we will cycle through this good time and be right back in the danger zone again ""

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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Medellin Traveler says on Sep 3, 2007, 05:47:

I believe with all the positive articles from The New York Times, Newsweek, Washington Post, Frommer's, just to name a few, that the word has gotten out about Medellin. Within the last two months The New York Times has run two great articles about traveling to Medellin. I hardly think it's a secret anymore.

AA is hosting a "Sell Colombia Now" program in Medellin in December and offering $100 fares to all travel agents in the US to attend in order to learn about how to "sell Colombia now" to the rest of North America. http://www.colombiatravelexchange.com/index.htm

As far as Medellin being overrun with gringos I don't see it happening anytime soon, or ever. Medellin is not a very big city and has limited available property to build the type of overpriced gringo gated communities like the ones you find in Costa Rica. Another reason I see is that most Paisas purchase a home to live until they depart this planet. It's not like in the states were we purchase a new home ever few years. Many Colombians live in the same homes they were born in.

The only reason that the home prices are out of line in El Poblado is because many folks involved in drug traffiking drove the prices up with their unlimited supply of money. Again, there is not much land to continue building.

Beware of getting gauged with "gringo prices." I found a brand new condo, blocks away from Mall Oviedo, with two bedrooms, two bathrooms, a parking spot, sundeck, 24hr doorman and a $60 month assement fee for $90k. You can't beat that for the location. I laugh whenever I hear a gringo paid $500,000 for a home in Costa Rica.

Will the cycle of violence return. It's difficult to say because after such a long time without violence, those who were involved in the heavy work get old and hopefully the younger generations are not down with that since they've been able to actually enjoy life without major conflicts. All the new development and programs add to the positive changes that have occured in Medellin. With the philosophy changes in the minds of many in Medellin it may be harder to easily return to the mindset of violence, it's a very powerful thing.

Medellin is not for everyone, it's not paradise because there are no beaches to be discovered.

Interesting article the US government and the Medellin Cartel traffiking in death together. http://www.zmag.org/crisescurevts/colombia/tdeath.htm

Don't worry. I don't see the gringos moving to Medellin in large numbers anytime soon, probably never.

http://medellin-colombia.blogspot.com

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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miamimike says on Sep 3, 2007, 06:07:

Not to mention the Distance factor-Guadalajara, Mexico is a short hop away from the US, not so with Colombia ; many Americans drive their RVs into mexico also. Guadalajara has 70,000 NorthAmericans retired living there now and more on the way daily to retire there. I doubt you will ever see a huge group of American Retirees heading to Colombia, maybe the adventuresome type but not the mainstream retirees. Mexican Pensionado Visas with Tangible benefits for retirees are fairly easily to get so thats a plus- also retireees in Mexico get a lot of discounts with a Mexican retiree visas. Much more dificult in Colombia not to mention the Retiree Visas really don't offer many tangible benefits. Guadalajara BTW, has not experienced any of the Spikes in Crime as have the Mexican Border towns.Crime has always been present in these areas of Mexico

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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john_stark says on Sep 3, 2007, 08:00:

"Most of Latin America has beautiful women with the exception of Mexico."

Then you've never been to Guadalajara, a city with women to rival any place else.

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john_stark says on Sep 3, 2007, 08:03:

For a Third World condo, 90K?!?!!? The end of the world must be near because that's incredible. I wouldn't pay more than 30K for any condo in Colombia and even then I'd be kissing that money goodbye. I could buy a frigging condo in a good area of San Antonio for that kind of money.

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bufalo says on Sep 3, 2007, 08:05:

gotta go on the side of GIB. I laugh at the US teachers here that are in the english speaking school - they have their own places, guarded, picked up everyday at their doorstep, in a protcted school all day and then returned home at night - no clue as to everyday life here. And they say they know Colombia.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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droble77 says on Sep 3, 2007, 09:21:

I doubt a return to the "bad ol' days" of La Violencia and the Bogotazo is in the cards for Colombia. I don't think political violence will return to that intensity despite la guerilla. On the other hand, it does seem possible that criminal/delinquent violence could surge up to the levels seen in Medellin in the Escobar years. Maybe not as bad, but bad enough, just take a look at Cali today. You might run into several gringos in Parque Lleras or Zona Rosa, but where would they hang out in Cali? Maybe at Chipi Chape mall or at the Sexta strip admiring the eye candy, but even that has to get boring after awhile. . . :-)

Medellin Traveler you said: "Medellin is not a very big city and has limited available property to build the type of overpriced gringo gated communities like the ones you find in Costa Rica." and then also "Medellin is not for everyone, it's not paradise because there are no beaches to be discovered."

I think you're instinctively right about this. Americans prefer coastal property, even if it means a lot of hurricane insurance and expensive real estate. And I seriously doubt retirement-age Americans want to live on a steep hill like Poblado. Plus, it's impossible to have a 3 or 4 day weekend trip to the beach unless you're flying. The nearby lakes will not cut it for many gringos. :-)

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RussianFred says on Sep 3, 2007, 09:41:

The only way Colombia can become paradise is if the USA makes drugs legal. The US drug companies would buy the coke field and export the drugs. The US government then can tax the drugs like Tobacco. They can even end the income tax system. You never know wilder things have happen – the Berlin Wall and the fall of the Soviet Union.

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Leeroy says on Sep 3, 2007, 12:17:

I find the premise of the OP slightly odd...

So the "good thing" about Colombia is that there are not many Americans? Let's widen this for a second, and say that the good thing is in fact that there are not many (western) foreigners full-stop.

Is that really why we live in Colombia? Is that really what makes Colombia good?

That's just silly.

We might as well be in Mongolia, or Sierra Leone.

What I infer from this post (and some replies) is "I like being here because I feel special because I am one of the few foreigners". If there were more foreigners we wouldn't be as special, would we?

We could double (no, quadruple) the amount of foreigners living here and it would make no tangible difference to "how Colombia is" or how our lives are here. I refuse to buy this "Colombia is an unspoilt paradise because the yanks haven't arrived yet!" argument. And so what if we mention to a few people (in real life or on a forum like this) how good Colombia is - this will not lead to a massive influx of new expats.

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RussianFred says on Sep 3, 2007, 12:40:

Maybe he does not want the competition.

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nine inch nails says on Sep 4, 2007, 07:42:

Don't worry. Even in Costa Rica it's still easy to get off the beaten path where there aren't that many Gringo sitings. Take away the puteria zones, Jaco and the major touristy sites you don't see that many of us. The Gringos that speak little or no Spanish and/or aren't confident with it tend to congregate in only a limited # of areas, same anywhere else. Last trip I got off the path with only a 5 -10 min. walk from Casa Los Yoses to the other smaller mall up the hill. And behind it a large nice park! I can still feel like a novelty in the CR!

Colombia is a hidden gem but

1) Still has considerable risk
2) Little further from the US than Mexiko or Central America
3) Airfares relatively expensive for the distance flown (my Nov. CR trip only $205 RT with taxes from MIA). CO like $550 unless you found some really good advance purchases, Peru only $400 /-. Spain/Europe in the winter not too much more than CO if you have a little more time.
4) Those full body cavity searches leaving are no fun (jajajaja).

Plus with current credit crunch and flat or even depreciating US real estate values travelers won't be going on as many trips anywhere.

CO great but lots of other nice places to get away also.

The Hedge funds have all gone wild on us!

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RussianFred says on Sep 4, 2007, 09:36:

dido, drugs, Farc, no english, and the western governments warnings = never, never, never!
Chicas and sex capital yes if you speak a little spanish.

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tampavallenato says on Sep 4, 2007, 09:41:

Thanks for all your post on this.

Ay Hombe!!!

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msaucey says on Sep 4, 2007, 12:28:

Tampa.... In my opinion, it's always best to promote a country that you enjoy.... The dimensions of Costa Rica in comparison to Colombia... is drastic.... Costa Rica is tiny, so yes, you will see more tourists there and they are very relaxed in their visa programs.... in comparison to Colombia.... Colombia, wants people to VISIT not live there, so, what's wrong with that.... Ask the gringos that live there how hard it is to just get permission to live there, versus a tourist visa.... Way different... Tourism will benefit the country... and overall, there will always be regions that are tourist destinations, like Mexico.... Mexico has, Cancun, Acapulco, Cabo... Colombian will continue to have Cartagena, Barranquilla and so forth.. But, I remember traveling through Tasco, Mexico and not really seeing too many tourist, same thing when I travel through Pereira, Colombia.... Tourism promotion is a good thing for Colombia and it's image....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Sep 6, 2007, 18:23:

" Its the Europeans you have to worry about. They are always on the look out for cheap places to get drunk and leave behind their piss and vomit."
Well Morphus, that is not exactly European style, more anglo-saxon style (Germans, English, Scandinavian, Dutch, etc.)
French people, Spanish people and, most of all, Italians prefer to fill up their nose of cocaine and die of heart attack in bed with one or two whores.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Sep 6, 2007, 19:41:

Whatever... they're just dead anyway!

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