To foreign women in Colombia

Diana says on Aug 16, 2004, 23:06:

The problem with greeting men first is that then they think you are into them or something. If they think you like them and they are able to tell you are a foriegner the male will more then likely follow you inorder to talk. There are many comments guys make on the street which make you feel great for example, Dios lo bendiga cuñado or the traditional, mi vida eres lo mas hermoso que he visto pasara por aqui en todo el dia. But there also many guys which compliment in very vulgar ways and to greet them would lead them to believe you are attracted. I personally wouldn't greet them, because I have followed by guys when in Santa Marta and then in Barranquilla. In Barranquilla my boyfriend got into a huge argument on the street because of a comment towards me he hear. I feel its just better to ignore some of the men.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 17, 2004, 07:36:

Thank for your personal insight on this subject. I used to be those guys with stupid comments. I would stand in the corner en la calle 72 in Barranquilla and when I saw a lovely lady with a delicious heart shape chunky butt passing my way, I would say stupid things like “mamasita me encataria ponerte en cuatro” love to put you in all fours, que cagadero tan lindo, I love to be your tampon, or, let me be you toilet, and other disgusting things that now bring me great shame. Now I just nod my head and give a soft smile but I get “maldito Viejo verde” from all the girls. I guess if I was young and good-looking maybe those rude comments might work. It all depends on who is making them.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 17, 2004, 08:46:

You're too much Elmo! My wife says that one of the differences she notices between Colombia and the United States is that the men here do not make comments about women passing that they do not know. She says that she never acknowledged the comments (piropos) men used to make in Colombia but that it did make her feel good thinking that men found her very attractive.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mzzmerized says on Aug 17, 2004, 09:10:

forgot to mention don't try this in barranquilla!!! just run like hell!!!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 17, 2004, 09:54:

some piropos are outrageously funny, some just offensive....I guess it depends on the crowd who's making them. I was thinking about what you said, mzzmerized, if you'd answer with a smile and a polite "good morning", it might just put the guys off balance and get the positive reaction you mentioned. They'd remember their manners...kind of shock treatment, because they'd expect you to ignore them totally.
I wouldn't say "buenos dias" to guys saying disgusting things like Elmo, though...
Cheers,
desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ShazCas says on Aug 17, 2004, 11:09:

Piropos It's really interesting to see a post about this - it was one of the things I most hated about Colombia. I didn't care if the man said something nice or vulgar, or if he was ugly or good-looking, I absolutely hated it. In fact, it was probably the number 1 drawback in living in Colombia for me.

I used to get so angry I would shake, but I didn't say anything most of the time, because that would just give them the satisfaction of laughing, but sometimes I would say "Que me mira? Su made en bola y huepu**!!"

The strange thing is that Colombian women seem to like it, as Utopia says, they find it nice to be found attractive. I've heard Colombian women living in other countries complaining about the "cold, wimpy men" who say nothing to them. They feel ignored. It just shows how different people are in different places. I just want to be left alone, and I wouldn't care if the man looked like Brad Pitt!! And hissing is something you do to an animal for me!

But then I found people in Colombia so pass-remarkable, even in a big impersonal city like Bogota. I used to have a piercing in my nose, and so stangers in the street used to say to me "You have a piercing in your nose" as they passed by in the street. Or they would say, "What's that in your nose?" That didn't bother me, in fact I liked it, it made me laugh. Or they would say "You shouldn't smoke" to a friend of mine in the street, or "You shouldn't eat so much" to a male friend of mine who was quite big. They just can't help themselves!! If you did that in Scotland you'd be in trouble!

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ShazCas says on Aug 17, 2004, 11:10:

Sorry, typo. That was "Su MADRE en bola etc"

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 17, 2004, 12:18:

invading your privacy Colombians, as almost all Latin people that I know, don't feel the same need for keeping unknown people at a certain distance from themselves. Their "private sphere" is just smaller. If you are born and raised up to hearing comments on your outlook and personality all the time by your family members and friends, it doesn't bother you that much receiveing unsolicited attention from total strangers. I know Colombian women that absolutely thrive on this attention they get from strange men. They dress for that, they walk in a certain way to get that, they pretend not to hear the whistles and cat calls, but secretely they enjoy them enormously.
Born and raised up in Norther Europe, this unwanted attention can be a real nuisance. You feel you privacy being invaded all the time, people getting too close, too personal with you. You get used to it, after a while, and then there comes a time when you'd not want to be without it. I'm not talking about vulgarities or obscenities; they're just disgusting, bad manners and lack of education, but rather this thing about getting close, getting personal with you.
I've probably haven't made any sense at all....

Cheers,
desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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aaronfromus says on Aug 18, 2004, 08:38:

Guy Etiquette? Hi all!

I've been reading this site for a couple weeks now, and I've found it very interesting. I think there's a lot of first hand experience on here. I'm your average white guy born in the US. I have thought after I graduate I might go to South America to find a nice latina for a wife.

I've got some cuban friends I talk to sometimes, and one time I was talking to this guy about guy etiquette in cuba. He said in cuba he had this girlfriend from another town, and it was common for the women over there to be "given some attention." He said as he would walk with his girlfiend groups of guys would yell out things to her. Some times good, sometimes bad. Or when he would be talking to his girlfiend a man might stand behind him making gestures to his girlfiend with his tongue. Another time, he said his girlfriend told him that some guy had touched her breast. He said the women over there are used to it, so the words, gestures and even the breast touching by strangers isn't that big a deal. It may even be complimentary. However, it can't be done in front of the boyfriend, especially if the catcalls point out that his girlfriend is ugly. So to save face he would usually have two choices, to pretend to not hear or see things, or to fight one or more guys. Not sure that this is necessarily the norm in most latin american countries, but it would be nice to not be surprised during a visit.

This all boils down to... what is guy etiquette in Colombia anyway? If I'm a US guy down in Colombia and catcalls go on as in the above posts, what exactly is culturally expected of me? What would the Colombian men's stated and unstated expectations be for my reaction? What would the Colombian women's stated and unstated expectations be for my reaction?

Sorry for the lengthy post. I'm interested to see what you all think about this.

Thanks,
Aaron

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seattlejames says on Aug 18, 2004, 09:21:

I am.... I am also interested in how to act sometimes in Colombia. Having traveled around alittle, I have found myself on the verge of fighting in Colombia a couple of times. Listen, I do not like to fight, but I do have some principles that I do not ignore. But, my Spanish sucks so most the time I do not understand what is being said, but if I hear, 'puta', than it is a go... Do you people think this is stupid? Or do I need to adjust my thinking?

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daver says on Aug 18, 2004, 11:02:

SeattleJames,

The exact same thing happened to me in Medellin with my fiance. Once, we were at an orphanage (visiting her cousin whos mother was murdered) and a group of 10 to 14 year olds were doing the same thing... I couln't understand untill I heard a resounding "PUTA!". Now what do you do there? Start a fight with a bunch of homeless kids?

We also got an earful walking by a bunch of construction sites.... There was a sleezy guy who followed us around in a museum, his eyes glued to my fiances chest and rear end... standing sometimes closer than 5 feet. Sure I was mad, but at the same time, I was getting looks (being a tall gringo... no other reason) from hot girls who paid no regard to the fact I was holding my fiances hand.

Look at it this way, if you go throwing your fists around, your chances of getting these situations to stop happening are zero. You risk looking like an idiot, you risk getting your ass kicked in front of your fiance, you risk getting seriously hurt, you risk getting killed, and you risk making enemies (not to mention the pleasant experience of a Colombian jail). The only thing you can accomplish is beating the crap out of someone, and the next day, there will be another group of guys saying the same things... If you have to fight them all, you have some serious work ahead of you.

Take the moral high ground an just walk away.... You are the one bringing home the gold, while they are on the street barking like a bunch of bitches in heat. Which reminds me of a saying by Winston Churchill:

"you can't get anywhere in life if you have to stop and throw rocks at every dog that barks at you"

You've got the prize, and they want it. Thing is, they can't have it. She does things to you at night that they have to do to themselves. You've already won, you've got the gold, don't go jumping off the podeum to hit the cry-babies who finnished last. Don't drag yourself to their level... they might enjoy all jumping in and kicking the crap out of the American with the hot lady.

May cooler heads prevail...

Good luck.

Dave

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Rico says on Aug 18, 2004, 12:04:

James: Follow Dave's advice! You have to make the right cultural adjustments. Colombia is different!

I mean, you must feel as if you have a high-grade Teflon coating all over you "y todo te resbala." Once you are truly "No Stick," you can let comments go in one ear and quickly out the other. Colombianos tend respect this tough, unaffected attitude.

Fighting, on the other hand, increases the problems! Furthermore: It shows you as an easily affected individual.

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seattlejames says on Aug 18, 2004, 13:12:

ok.ok...... Thanks for your comments....And I realize all the bad stuff assocaited with fighting.....But, it happens..And I am sorry about that...Is there any chance a women could repond to Aaron's ?'s or comments.

"If I'm a US guy down in Colombia and catcalls go on as in the above posts, what exactly is culturally expected of me? What would the Colombian men's stated and unstated expectations be for my reaction? What would the Colombian women's stated and unstated expectations be for my reaction?"

I was hoping a woman would respond to him because he said exactly what has been in my mind for a while now. And he writes good!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 18, 2004, 13:56:

what women would think Well, I'm not Colombian, but I'm trying very hard to figure out what one of my female friends there would think or say....I'd say they wouldn't want you to get in a fight. They'd want you just to ignore the jerks, and go on. They're smarter than that. The "macho code of honor" is childish and low-class to them, and they wouldn't want you to stoop down on their level. And besides, a gringo boyfriend with a face all messed up looking like a raccoon is not a pretty sight. Burying a gringo boyfriend cut down with a machete or full of nasty bullet holes is a nuisance. Better a gringo who ran than a gringo to be shipped back home in an expensive lead coffin.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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aaronfromus says on Aug 18, 2004, 14:00:

Any feminine responses? Thanks SeattleJames,

I welcome the comments from Daver and Rico too. But I would be very interested in hearing from the ladies as well, Columbian and others alike. It would be helpful to get some feminine insight because I know that sometimes a lady might say one thing while expecting you to know what she's not saying. Even if my fiance says she doesn't mind my being "mature" and "avoiding trouble," I would still like to know if deep down she and her family think I am a "gringo pendejo" [from Elmo's post under "Guy Etiquette?"]

On the same note, I have noticed that the answer to this question seems to depend on whether the man responding is US or Columbian born. It seems that when US guys answer they encourage "avoidance" of trouble by "maturely" ignoring the catcalls [this post and "US nice guy in Columbian Jail"], but when Columbian guys answer they encourage standing up for your fiance by at least attempting to teach the other guy some manners ["Guy Etiquette?"]

Thanks,
Aaron

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daver says on Aug 18, 2004, 14:19:

Which Colombian encouraged you to stand up for your finace??

Your not listening to Elmo are you? He's a New Yorker!!

LOL!

Ps. In all honesly, Elmo, your posts are my favorite!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 18, 2004, 14:48:

Interesting questions, aaronfromus. When I am with my wife in Medellin, she gets a lot of appreciative looks from guys, but they keep their comments and their hands to themselves. As a result, we have never really discussed whether she wants me to defend her honor or not.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ColombianoX says on Aug 18, 2004, 17:06:

Just ignore any obnoxious comments. You should only have to fight when you are forced to.


ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Diana says on Aug 18, 2004, 19:01:

Female point of view on guy etiquette Most of the vulgar comments or catcalls are made to chicks when they are alone or with other women. When you go out with your girlfriend 99.9% of the time guys will not disrespect, instead they will compliment.

My boyfriend is from Barranquilla, we met in the states. We traveled this summer to B/quilla and he almost got into a fight. Because he was being a macho IDIOT. We were leaving a club, I was upset because he had drank to much so I walked outside before him. This guy saw me alone and started talking to me, I told him I was waiting for my boyfriend. Of course when my boyfriend got outside he said something offensive to the guy. Basically, my boyfriend was just being an ass because he was drunk. They almost fought, but thankfully his friends were there and made him drop the entire event and we went home.

I was not born in Colombia, but my father is Colombian and my mom is Cuban and they have raised me with Hispanic customs. Now, hypothetically if I was in Colombia with a gringo and my father was to hear that the guy almost got into a fight to “defend my honor,” he would never ever ever let the gringo back in my home or near me. Absolutely no one in my family will think SuperGringo, instead they will feel that the gringo isn’t worthy enough to be around me, because he put me in danger.

So really think about the consequences of fighting not only with you be disliked by the family because you will be considered a wannabe gangster, but the girl will feel be pissed. My family would feel the same about this scenrio regardless if the guy was gringo, Colombian, Asian, etc. etc.

A Colombian chick will want you to dismiss the comment as vulgar as it may be. You will not become her knight and shining armor, but yet the idiot who she is afraid to be in public with. Social classes in Colombia are different. Although in the states you may see middle class guys fighting, the only fight I saw in Colombia was on the hill in San Andres. The hill can be compared to some bad New York ghetto neighborhood. Actually, it was way worse then the ghetto in New York. In other words, you probably won’t be in areas were fighting happens.

The only acceptable time to fight would be if you are physically attacked. Colombians are really polite and hospitable so the last thing you should be preoccupied with is the though of getting arrested because of fighting.

Hope you act responsibly and good luck!

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aaronfromus says on Aug 19, 2004, 09:07:

thanks I appreciate all the input.

Diana: thanks for the comment on the social classes and how your family would react to a "super gringo" :)

Desideria: I'll try to not look like a racoon or be a nuisance. Lead coffins are both expensive to buy and to ship back to the states:)

Rico: "Columbians tend to respect this tough unaffected attitude." I hadn't heard that perspective before. Thanks.

ColumbianoX: "Ignore" and only "fight when forced to." I can see in this regard, that Columbia is not that much different from the US.

Daver: "You've got the gold, don't go jumping off the podeum to hit the cry babies who finished last." Good point. Nice quote from Churchill.

I feel much more informed. You have all confirmed some things I had been thinking.

Aaron

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 19, 2004, 09:10:

I asked my wife about this last night, Diana, and she's with you. She said the best thing to do is ignore any remarks and that by responding in any way, you are reducing yourself to their level. In any event, no man has ever made a comment while I have been with her.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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aaronfromus says on Aug 19, 2004, 09:21:

That's good to know Utopiacowboy,

Thanks for asking your wife what she though. Straight from a Columbiana. There's a strong consensus here on how to react which makes me all the more confident that trying to ignore a comment is the wisest course of action.

Aaron

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daver says on Aug 19, 2004, 10:04:

aaronfromus...

You seem like a really nice guy who is really interested in Colombia, so thats probably why no one has jumped on you yet for one little point:

You keep spelling it "Columbia". Its "Colombia"

Just so you know. Enjoy yourself while you are there! I'm sure you will love it.

Dave

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aaronfromus says on Aug 19, 2004, 10:31:

Yikes, where's the edit button? Thanks for the heads up Dave!

Probably similar to writing the Younited Stads.

Aaron

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paisaenusa says on Aug 19, 2004, 11:48:

must change way of thinking.... you must change, i am a colombian guy living in TX, but i know me people, ans is nothing like here in the states.
There (Colombia) fight, means...:GET KILL FAST...
Just have to find the rigth person, and you are in deep problems.
dont let comments afect you.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 19, 2004, 12:03:

I had to ask my very young Paisa wife about her reaction if I was to ignore rude sexual comments toward her in my presence. Her fist reaction was that knowing me, it will never happen. She says that I will jump that guy the way I jump her when I see her walking in the bedroom wearing my favorite sexy knightty, that one that I wear too. She knows that it will turn out into the mother of all street fights, and those are the best kinds. Is really a fun and funny fight because is NOT done with colossal hatred toward the other person. First, you insult the hell outta the guy and wait for his reaction. Tell him his mother gives lousy bj's, after he answers with other insults, you push the guy and wait for another reaction but always make sure people are around to stop this stupid shit from getting outta hand. A few punches mostly misses will fly some pushing, rolling around the floor, and whole lotta insults should be enough. After the incident you’ll feel great, you’ll feel ten feet tall and sex that evening will be fantastic mostly coming from you wife and be completely selfish , don’t worry if she does not come, you already did your job as man! . We can’t deny that we are animals and still behave as such, and fighting for the honor of your women is a must, no matter how ridiculous it might seem. . I’m not a jealous guy, but after something like that happens is really out of my hands and I act on pre arranged deep rooted actions in my brain.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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daver says on Aug 19, 2004, 12:58:

***Tell him his mother gives lousy bj's***

LOL! But, what if his mother gives terrific bjs?? You couldn't just lie to him, that would be so rude!

Elmo, do you have a hidden agenda? If us gringos all took your advice, we'd be doing the funky chicken and getting in fights all over Colombia! It would be the invasion of the gringo funky chicken fighters... Jesus! Soon they will make us get travel VISAs to go there... with questions on the application like "Do you do the funky chicken?" "Does your mother give lousy bjs?" "Does your donkey give lousy bjs?"

Dave

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elmodefoque says on Aug 19, 2004, 13:09:

"It would be the invasion of the gringo funky chicken fighters..." dude, you made me pissed my pants with that. i'm in the men's room trying to dry my pants, i never laugh so hard. you should see this scene. me in my underwear pushing the blower with my pants press against that thing, all i need is for the freaking president of the company to walk in.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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elmodefoque says on Aug 19, 2004, 13:15:

tinto, don't tell me you never worn them!! i've gotten the biggest erections wearing those things. jejejej

I'll get there, when I get there!

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daver says on Aug 19, 2004, 18:36:

***me in my underwear pushing the blower with my pants press against that thing,***

The people at your work must be used to you by now, and if they are like me, they know you're a good guy underneath it all!! If not, you'd be fired... I worked in the US for a couple years, and them Yanks are way to concerned about political correctness.

On a "lighter" note, don't burn your ©o©k on that blower thing... You have dark skin, but man, you'd have a hell of time getting those big erections in your wifes nighties after a good ol' burn from the office hand drier.

***tinto, don't tell me you never worn them!! i've gotten the biggest erections wearing those things. jejejej***

Three words: too much information.

Later Elmo!,

Dave

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elmodefoque says on Aug 20, 2004, 06:04:

Dave, I was just messing with Tinto’s head, I wanted to shock him, but I won’t deny that I have put on my wife’s undines BUT ONLY, I repeat BUT ONLY because she insisted, and when I saw myself in the mirror, OHHH MYY GODD, what a horrible, eye blinding, disgusting sight, I was hanging all over the place. Never again!!!. I have done many thing that I was later ashamed of and lately have been pressured my tribe elders to come back to my village to cleanse my soul from all the impurities I have picked up living in Barranquilla and NYC. They say I still have a good chance of becoming chief of our people, but first I need to know, what’s in it for me? I was told that we will discuss this further, this weekend.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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daver says on Aug 20, 2004, 12:55:

***but first I need to know, what’s in it for me? ****

That's the spirit Elmo! LOL! "Well, I'd like to be cheif, but the retirement plan sucks, and this other tribe is offering me stock options and private boxes a Yankee stadium...."

What sort of benefits do you want as "cheif of our people"? I think the cheif status would be good enough on its own... you'd be able to make a hell of cool business card for yourself...

Cheif Elmo... LOL!

Later dude,

Dave

PS. Make sure the elders don't get a hold of any pictures of you wearing your wifes underwear! Your political career may be ruined.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 20, 2004, 18:17:

dave, i just finished my first round of negotiations with my tribe elders and they offered 7 wives,(no goats needed for them) plus i get to keep the one i already have. the girls are all virgin with a clean bill of health, but that will change as soon as i get my hands on them. now i'm asking for a lifetime supply of viagra all the booze i could possible consume plus unlimited amount of stuff to shove up my nose. round two of negotiations for tribal chief is tomorrow.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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daver says on Aug 20, 2004, 19:14:

Hmmmm...

They offer 7 virgin healthy wives, the option to keep the current wife, and you get to keep your goats... and you are holding out for viagara, booze, and nose candy... you drive a hard bargin. I yearn for the days when being chief of your people was so much more simple.

***the girls are all virgin with a clean bill of health, but that will change as soon as i get my hands on them***

what will change? Their virgin satus, or their clean bill of health! LOL! If you get the viagara, I assume both!!

LOL!

Dave

Ps. I think the goats are hoping you don't get a lifetime supply of viagara.... a tip for you, wear track pants, goats can hear a zipper from a mile away!

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elmodefoque says on Aug 23, 2004, 11:32:

Dave, because I've forgotten most of my native tongue, I misunderstood my tribal elder and got things a little confused. They were offering me the job of the “village idiot” and not the “village chief” and I was not going to get seven wives but seven burros. I told those old sonamnbiches to take those burros and stick them where the sun don’t shine!

I'll get there, when I get there!

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